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Server Merge?

iimpziimpz Posts: 0 Arc User
edited May 2015 in General Discussion
Hey,

Just wondering, what would actually happen if a server merge happened? I assume only certain servers could be merged?

I heard HT has really low activity so was just curious.
Post edited by iimpz on

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  • SylenThunder - Twilight TempleSylenThunder - Twilight Temple Supprot Guru Posts: 7,908
    edited May 2015
    Search back to when the EU servers merged and you will see.
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  • Boomz - HarshlandsBoomz - Harshlands Posts: 516 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    one has happened and it was a big one. There is ample proof that this can be done and honestly more are needed. The game whether pwi admits or not, (i mean just look at their news post and their desperate attemps to get more people to join back to the game lol) is dying. The biggest cause which they dont' realize is because the servers aren't active and more and more people are leaving like a domino effect. Both the east coast and west coast need a merge. If the 4 west coast merged into 2 and the 3 east coast merged into 1 then we would have very healthy servers again that can actually attract people to play this game again. Honestly i'd even be willing to help pwi do this cause i know for a fact that they don't understand jack about ingame stuff at all, and they always sweep important issues under the rug.
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  • opkossyopkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited May 2015
    It can be done with server that were explicitly designed for it. The EU servers were made with being able to merge them in mind, and that's precisely what happened. The older ones, not so much. So while it's possible the high difficulty and risk of things going wrong make it an extremely unlikely event.

    It's also possible to have lightning strike you and survive it, but nobody's gonna recommend someone go out in the middle of a storm with a lightning rod in their hands to try and get hit. Same sort of thing here.
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  • NRGLG - Heavens TearNRGLG - Heavens Tear Posts: 393 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    iimpz wrote: »
    I heard HT has really low activity so was just curious.

    Since when? I've actually seen activity pick up since coming back a few months ago. Anyone spouting this opinion is just the typical doomsday spreader. They've been spouting the same **** since the game started.

    As for your question, the name database must be shared between servers for them to merge. Also, what if you had 8 characters on each server? You can't have 16, so how would that work out? There's just a lot of issues regarding these kinds of things that various people here don't think about. They can moan and whine that PWE should do it, but have no idea of the actual scale of how to pull this off without mucking it up.
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  • Asterelle - SanctuaryAsterelle - Sanctuary Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Since when? I've actually seen activity pick up since coming back a few months ago. Anyone spouting this opinion is just the typical doomsday spreader. They've been spouting the same **** since the game started.

    As for your question, the name database must be shared between servers for them to merge. Also, what if you had 8 characters on each server? You can't have 16, so how would that work out? There's just a lot of issues regarding these kinds of things that various people here don't think about. They can moan and whine that PWE should do it, but have no idea of the actual scale of how to pull this off without mucking it up.
    They had that issue when they merged Loth and Moma into Morai. All the chars are there but only 8 show up in the client. If you want to access the extra 8 you have to delete characters.

    For names, even if servers dont share the same name database there are certainly migration strategies that could be done to resolve conflicts. Name conflicts in the inter-server wars they have in PWCN are resolved by appending an identifier like "[1]" to names from one server and "[2]" to the names from another server.

    It wouldn't really be all that hard to do something like this:

    1) identify all conflicts
    2) append some unique identifier to resolve them
    3) do the merge
    4) mail the affected people bound identity stones

    Someone sufficiently motivated and skilled can write a script to merge any database.
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  • NRGLG - Heavens TearNRGLG - Heavens Tear Posts: 393 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    If the name was too long, you couldn't append [1], [2], etc. to the name as it would get cut off. They would have to increase the total name size by 3, which means 6 extra useless bytes for every character in the database. Unless they use variable size names with a max cap. Also, if you did this, someone could conceivably steal said username before you attempt to rename your character since it won't be taken anymore.

    Next, what about factions? What if the faction name exists on two servers servers? Are we just going to append to that as well? There is no renaming stone to rename factions, so that wouldn't work unless such a feature was added. However, it would also suffer from the aforementioned stealing issue if it was added.
    Someone sufficiently motivated and skilled can write a script to merge any database.

    Mmm, I wouldn't take that so lightly. The merging does seem easy from the outside, believe me. It looks like something I could do in my sleep. However, once you really start to think about it there are lots of little extra conditions that could be overlooked and ruin a lot.

    Examples: For marriages, are they connected by name or by an ID? If by ID, for each person being added they would need a new unique ID and would have to also change the IDs for each corresponding character marriage. Then for factions, I also assume they have unique IDs. Would need to reassign those. Then for gold/event gold, they would need to make sure they add both together. Would also need to change the IDs for blacklists...and the list goes on and on...

    Now I'm not saying it can't be done, nor am I trying to scare away the thought of it. It's just that there are many little variables to this whole thing that are seemingly ignored. It isn't just something you up and do with no prior forethought.

    Note: I am specifically talking about the merging of servers that don't share a name database.
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  • SylenThunder - Twilight TempleSylenThunder - Twilight Temple Supprot Guru Posts: 7,908
    edited May 2015
    With PW, you're looking at 4 separate databases that cross-link the data. Two are SQL, and two are Berkley databases. It may be possible, but it's WAY more effort than they will ever put into this game now.
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  • Jarkhen - ArchosaurJarkhen - Archosaur Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    it's WAY more effort than they will ever put into this game now.

    Ultimately this is all it comes down to. Is it possible? Certainly. Will it happen? No. We can't even get a CM, you expect us to have server merges?
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  • iimpziimpz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Since when? I've actually seen activity pick up since coming back a few months ago. Anyone spouting this opinion is just the typical doomsday spreader. They've been spouting the same **** since the game started.

    As for your question, the name database must be shared between servers for them to merge. Also, what if you had 8 characters on each server? You can't have 16, so how would that work out? There's just a lot of issues regarding these kinds of things that various people here don't think about. They can moan and whine that PWE should do it, but have no idea of the actual scale of how to pull this off without mucking it up.

    Not a doomsday spreader at all, I've played for years, someone mentioned to me about active characters and compared HT to say Morai or Sanctuary. Sorry if you got that feeling, but I am just curious how it would happen and if it could.
    With PW, you're looking at 4 separate databases that cross-link the data. Two are SQL, and two are Berkley databases. It may be possible, but it's WAY more effort than they will ever put into this game now.

    Why Berkeley DB? I have never come across it
  • SylenThunder - Twilight TempleSylenThunder - Twilight Temple Supprot Guru Posts: 7,908
    edited May 2015
    iimpz wrote: »
    Not a doomsday spreader at all, I've played for years, someone mentioned to me about active characters and compared HT to say Morai or Sanctuary. Sorry if you got that feeling, but I am just curious how it would happen and if it could.



    Why Berkeley DB? I have never come across it

    I have no idea, but it's a proprietary Berkeley database that's used for the uniquename database, the faction name database, and character relationship tables. (seems like there's one more I'm forgetting, but it's been a couple of years since I seriously poked at it.)

    Then you have the SQL databases with the account and character slots, very basic character information, and relational data cross-linking the three Berkely databases.

    Finally, you've got a xml file that contains your specific character data. Quests, inventory, bank, learned skills, attributes, ect.

    Each of them is tied to the other, and keeping all those relationship tables lined up correctly in a merge is no small task.
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  • Roar_King - SanctuaryRoar_King - Sanctuary Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I think we all know that merge is not simple but I think that without a merge many servers will die for low activity. If they want to keep players on this game they must merge now or later.
  • bloodedone87bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I think we all know that merge is not simple but I think that without a merge many servers will die for low activity. If they want to keep players on this game they must merge now or later.

    Lets merge the ****ing servers.
    lets do it. lets see what happens when the PVE player will wake up one day, log in a game a found himself on a PVP server. Lets see them quit for not been able to play anymore due to that ******* that will attack and 1 shot them just cause he can. God help you if you have lag in the moment a idiot will attack you and you cnat run fast enough or fight back.

    Merging servers wont help the game, wont bring players back. Maybe some will be back but after they will realize that is the same old **** they will quit again.
    Server merge will just put players from the different servers togheter and nothing more. Wont increase the number of players for all game. And the game content will remain the same with all his bugs and glitches and other problems.
    The ones that quit the game they didnt quit cause they didnt had people to paly with. They did it cause they werent satisfied with game content anymore and due to the almost non existing answer from staff when they had problems related with the game to be solved.
    PWE need to fix alot of things before even thinking about a server merge.
    giphy.gif



  • paralleogramparalleogram Posts: 596 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    the pvp servers can merge into the pve servers.
    Those who wish to continue to pvp will stay in pvp mode, those who don't will be safe with their cute little blue names and there would be no QQ.

    Eventually a server merge will be needed. Prior to the past few years top guilds were able to get 80 into TW with people waiting on the side to get in, to these same guilds now only fielding 40-50 people -if that-.
    These numbers will continue to get lower and lower. A merge will invigorate the current PWI population. New enemies to fight, new friends to make yadda yadda yadda.....


    (I really don't care about Mr. KnowItAllIKnowEverythingAboutPwiAndTheirServers and how it's not possible or the servers can't handle it the merge. There's always fixes for everything in life to make things work)
    Here we go again....
  • __Sami__ - Archosaur__Sami__ - Archosaur Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Lets merge the ****ing servers.
    lets do it. lets see what happens when the PVE player will wake up one day, log in a game a found himself on a PVP server. Lets see them quit for not been able to play anymore due to that ******* that will attack and 1 shot them just cause he can. God help you if you have lag in the moment a idiot will attack you and you cnat run fast enough or fight back.

    Merging servers wont help the game, wont bring players back. Maybe some will be back but after they will realize that is the same old **** they will quit again.
    Server merge will just put players from the different servers togheter and nothing more. Wont increase the number of players for all game. And the game content will remain the same with all his bugs and glitches and other problems.
    The ones that quit the game they didnt quit cause they didnt had people to paly with. They did it cause they werent satisfied with game content anymore and due to the almost non existing answer from staff when they had problems related with the game to be solved.
    PWE need to fix alot of things before even thinking about a server merge.

    I will have to take this post as a troll as I still have some faith in humanity left.
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  • bloodedone87bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I will have to take this post as a troll as I still have some faith in humanity left.

    I am damn serious. Lets merge the server and you will see I am right.
    You will see that nothing will change. You will see that it will create more problems.
    You will see people quit for ending up on a pvp server( the ones that chosed a pve server).
    If you thing merging servers will attract more players you are wrong. It wont.
    Before merging servers how about fix bugs and glitches? How about revive instances like Nirvana, FC( to farm mats, not hyper) how about put back book drops in Abba and SOT? How about fixing Public Quests?
    What I am saying is: How about fix the game content?
    And how about we get a GM that is more active?
    And how about PWE will actually do something against the one that cheat?
    Should I go on?
    the pvp servers can merge into the pve servers.
    Those who wish to continue to pvp will stay in pvp mode, those who don't will be safe with their cute little blue names and there would be no QQ.

    Eventually a server merge will be needed. Prior to the past few years top guilds were able to get 80 into TW with people waiting on the side to get in, to these same guilds now only fielding 40-50 people -if that-.
    These numbers will continue to get lower and lower. A merge will invigorate the current PWI population. New enemies to fight, new friends to make yadda yadda yadda.....


    (I really don't care about Mr. KnowItAllIKnowEverythingAboutPwiAndTheirServers and how it's not possible or the servers can't handle it the merge. There's always fixes for everything in life to make things work)

    Yes new friends to make. new enemies to fight and then they will get bored and quit again.
    Than what is left to merge?
    giphy.gif



  • __Sami__ - Archosaur__Sami__ - Archosaur Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I am damn serious. Lets merge the server and you will see I am right.
    You will see that nothing will change. You will see that it will create more problems.
    You will see people quit for ending up on a pvp server( the ones that chosed a pve server).
    If you thing merging servers will attract more players you are wrong. It wont.
    Before merging servers how about fix bugs and glitches? How about revive instances like Nirvana, FC( to farm mats, not hyper) how about put back book drops in Abba and SOT? How about fixing Public Quests?
    What I am saying is: How about fix the game content?
    And how about we get a GM that is more active?
    And how about PWE will actually do something against the one that cheat?
    Should I go on?

    Nobody has argued it would bring more players. But having more packed server, the activity on new merged server would be obviously higher than when servers were separate. Active and population healthy server will offer way more reasons for players to stay in game. More TW factions, more ppl in NW, easier to get squads to get your stuff done. Nobody expects this game to go on forever, its an old game as it is now but merging servers would prolong the life of the game.

    Ps. I doubt anybody suggested merging PvP server into PvE server or the other way around.
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  • Sirkura - Lost CitySirkura - Lost City Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    this was actually talked about in detail a while ago. if they merged them together i highly doubt they would merge PVE and PVP servers together.

    they could merge LostCity/Harshlands and Dreamweaver/Ragingtides seperately for instance keeping them pvp/pve respectively.

    i strongly agree the servers should merge. there is hardly any appeal left in such a stagnant setting. the hardest part i believe would be conflictions in coding. its possible, just tedious.
  • Boomz - HarshlandsBoomz - Harshlands Posts: 516 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    this was actually talked about in detail a while ago. if they merged them together i highly doubt they would merge PVE and PVP servers together.

    they could merge LostCity/Harshlands and Dreamweaver/Ragingtides seperately for instance keeping them pvp/pve respectively.

    i strongly agree the servers should merge. there is hardly any appeal left in such a stagnant setting. the hardest part i believe would be conflictions in coding. its possible, just tedious.

    It doesn't matter if it is tedious, it is possible and its a route that pwi must soon explore they are losing people much faster than gaining (if even gaining at all). The biggest reason why is because the servers are not as active are as they use to people and people are getting bored. When those people leave, more even leave making a domino effect.
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  • Blancheneige - Heavens Tear Blancheneige - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,494 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It doesn't matter if it is tedious, it is possible

    It's possible, but I doubt they have anyone left with the technical skill to do it. Unless China send over some people to do it.

    But they will probably shut down the game instead of merging servers.
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