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question for astrelle

CooIGuy - ArchosaurCooIGuy - Archosaur Posts: 103 Arc User
edited May 2015 in Duskblade
I was doing some stuff with my duskblade and i noticed that the crimson soul powder apoth potion stacks the aps with the reaper form. ive done a very small basic calculator on aps and i found that with r8 chest , rrr9 leggings , boots , rrr9 weapon g15 gloves , tt99 neck and belt , interval robe , interval tome , g15 helm gives easy 4 aps . I am not the greatest when it comes to damage calculating in pwi on their formulas but i was wondering. what is better in terms of taking down a boss. that aps set that i mentioned before with weapon +10 75 dmg shards OR a full rrr9 set skill spamming in reaper form. If you read this please answer me or any other person that tried it or knows the dmg equation in pwi.b:thanks thanks in advance
Post edited by CooIGuy - Archosaur on

Comments

  • Asterelle - SanctuaryAsterelle - Sanctuary Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It's not really 'easy' aps when its only for a few seconds every 2 minutes. Maybe you should try using a genie with windshield instead of apoth. If you can do a solid 4 aps, hitting 4 times a second is like having a skill with a 1second cooldown that does 400% base damage. I don't know much about DB skills but I doubt they have any that hits that hard, even after you add in skill damage bonus from primal and squad buff. Skill spamming comes into play when you have full R999 which has high attack levels / crit and even then it's mostly on aps-resistant bosses like in FSP.
    [sigpic][/sigpic]
    PWI Calculators - aster.ohmydays.net/pw
  • WannaBM - ArchosaurWannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I dont know how much damage the new toons do since i have been out of the games for... gosh its almost 6 months now.

    All the old toons damage output when skillspamming arent so very far appart. If my barb is index 100, maybe they range between 80 and 110 at most.

    4APS R9sins would be index 200 on that same scale. (a bit more actually 6 months ago, but the passives have increased a bit more in favor of the skillspammers, so ill be conservative with the numbers i know from back then)

    If your duskblade can also do 4aps with R9 weapon, i assume its damage output should be somewhat similar to that of the assasin.

    Your skillspam should probably also be somewhat in range with other toons their skillspam. With new toons being OP it wouldnt surprise me if it would be a bit higher like 115-120 or so.

    Conclusion, your APS would probably out DD your skillspam on old bosses by 70-90% or so.


    Yes i have been out of the game for 6 months, i have never seen a duskblade real live. Why do i answer ? Because many other people will answer who dont know any numbers or comparison at all. They will merely say APS is dead and its damage insignificant nowadays. I have even seen APS barbs say that their skillspam equals their APS dmg (ludicrous since it was a factor 2 difference) They were saying that 6 months ago and im sure they havent changed their mind.
    They are right when its about new content where everything is APS resistant. They are wrong when its about TT. Even when comparing to R9+12 toons skillspamming toons. (which is what i did)
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • CooIGuy - ArchosaurCooIGuy - Archosaur Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    the question was aps vs full rrr9 skill spam ( related to astrelle answer ) and the reason im asking this is because the cooldowns of 2 skills in reaper form is of 1 second only so by the time you use both skills you can repeat it again. Thats the reason why i was wondering which is better. atm i have just rrr9 weapon with lame reroll and just all armors in rr9 waiting for badges and some molds to make them all rrr9 at once

    also the apoth potion last 15seconds while reaper form 32 seconds
  • Sylvae - SanctuarySylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Chances are it will work with Wind Shield and other APS boosts as well, not just crimson powder. Because the speed boost from Reaper Form is likely an inherent trait of the transformation, and therefore not counted as a speed boost in and of itself. So give a try with Windshield and other boosts, and save apoth for more useful things.
  • CooIGuy - ArchosaurCooIGuy - Archosaur Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Chances are it will work with Wind Shield and other APS boosts as well, not just crimson powder. Because the speed boost from Reaper Form is likely an inherent trait of the transformation, and therefore not counted as a speed boost in and of itself. So give a try with Windshield and other boosts, and save apoth for more useful things.

    it does stack with reaper form. i already tested it and the reason i need crimson is because adds 25 % more attack rate while windshield 10% is a huge difference
  • CapnK - SanctuaryCapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    In my opinion DB is meant to be a skill spammer. It's okay to have some aps to save money on mp pots and such. But if you want an aps toon just roll a sin or BM - it's far cheaper to gear it for aps.

    And as mentioned above, most endgame bosses have the anti-aps buff anyway.
  • Mrvate - Heavens TearMrvate - Heavens Tear Posts: 406 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I had played around a little bit with aps duskblade as I had an aps set from sin on same account. aps is certainly viable for duskblade, and when you're sparked, reaper, and windshield/crimson powder its a pretty good dmg output. But part of what makes aps so strong for sins and bms is that it is sustainable dmg, and DB aps isn't.

    But I wouldn't recommend it or see it as an endgame alternative, and outside of already having aps gear I think most people would be better off going for full stg3 nirv and skill spamming then using an aps build. Because using inferior gear for 15 seconds of higher dmg then just skill spamming doesn't seem worth it.

    I haven't calc'd the dps comparisson of aps vs skill spamming. But especially if you're comparing damage over 60-90 sec and aps set vs full r9. My guess is full r9 will be pulling ahead. As all the factors that affect other classes, with many bosses having anti-aps, skill dmg passives and squad buffs, and duskblade skill spamming does build chi relatively quickly aswell.
  • WannaBM - ArchosaurWannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    In my opinion DB is meant to be a skill spammer. It's okay to have some aps to save money on mp pots and such. But if you want an aps toon just roll a sin or BM - it's far cheaper to gear it for aps.

    And as mentioned above, most endgame bosses have the anti-aps buff anyway.

    Barb you mean. That seems to be the only one thats meant to be APS since R9 is around actually b:chuckle
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • CapnK - SanctuaryCapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    There are exactly zero good aps barbs on Sanctuary, so no, I would not recommend aps barb for anything.
  • WannaBM - ArchosaurWannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    There are exactly zero good aps barbs on Sanctuary, so no, I would not recommend aps barb for anything.

    nab server.
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • teikiatsu11teikiatsu11 Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Barb you mean. That seems to be the only one thats meant to be APS since R9 is around actually b:chuckle

    If barbs were meant to be APS then they'd have claw skills b:chuckle
  • opkossyopkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited May 2015
    If barbs were meant to be APS then they'd have claw skills b:chuckle

    Skills are as far from APS as you can get. The fact barbs don't have claw skills gives them more legitimacy APSing than if they did have claw skills that were intended to be used with said claws instead of forgone in favor of stacking -interval. b:chuckle



    Realistically speaking, no one was intended to be utilizing -int to that degree and it was only after the concept became widespread that counters were put in place against it. Had it been intended all along, we wouldn't have need of anti-APS mechanics getting introduced midway through the game as they would have been in place from the start to prevent the mechanic from dominating all other methods of fighting.




    And thus, I have ruined the joke you were making by taking it all serious when it was just lighthearted humor. Yes, I'm great at parties. b:laugh
    (Insert fancy image here)
    image
  • Joe - MoraiJoe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    so. good thing I've looked into this topic just to discover major aps-barb bashing going on. k.

    show me any BM on any server that does more APS dmg than my barb. due to the r9rr wearability while apsing, barbs got a huge advantage.

    oh snap. not even deity sharded aps-BMs could deal more dmg than my aps-barb? dang. must be the fact that bms dont have spamable debuffs which only reduce the apsing time in spark by a tiny bit compared to their, chi heavy debuffs.

    deity sharded aps-Barbs with g16 claws/fists can even out-dd 4.0 r9rr sins. easily. actually...even non-deity sharded...the dmg should be pretty equal especially when you compare their solo dd power without further debuffs cept for their own. barbs can sustain a full phys break on mobs every 2 sparking via str built tangling mire. add bloodrush, demon/primal onslaught and ep to it and you got yourself a barb that can onespark kill nearly all vana bosses/most tt bosses without much fuzz. charmless. buffless. go ahead and try this with sins/bm. gl.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • eirghaneirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Wow this thread got derailed fast.

    Pretty sure saying there are no good aps barbs on a server isnt bashing. Or discussing aps mechanics... Or if a class is meant to be aps.

    Or maybe i missed something.
  • ReckUrWorld - Lost CityReckUrWorld - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    <Full R9X3 dph sage duskblade

    I take aggro from prob 98% of anyone ive been in squad with for the last 2months with a +10 R9X3 wep. My opinion.... with the primal skill dmg passives that reaper skill spamming is top of the food chain for maximum damage with this class.

    Just my opinion.

    ReckUrWorld - Sage EA - 105 105 103
    RuleUrWorld - Sage DB - 103 103 100
  • Joe - MoraiJoe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    <Full R9X3 dph sage duskblade

    I take aggro from prob 98% of anyone ive been in squad with for the last 2months with a +10 R9X3 wep. My opinion.... with the primal skill dmg passives that reaper skill spamming is top of the food chain for maximum damage with this class.

    Just my opinion.

    ReckUrWorld - Sage EA - 105 105 103
    RuleUrWorld - Sage DB - 103 103 100

    Not just your opinion, you are right. Skill DMG-wise there is nothing that can Out-DD a duskblade on equal gears, at least not while in Reaper Form. The dmg is sick and the skills just fly out of them like nothing.

    BUT...still nothing compared to aps-dmg tho. APS is still top tier DMG-wise. Take instances like flowsilver and APS is pretty much worthless ._.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • CooIGuy - ArchosaurCooIGuy - Archosaur Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    the question was meant for normal bosses like tt for example not in instances where aps is getting worthless
  • Satyrion - SanctuarySatyrion - Sanctuary Posts: 255 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Sanctuary no good aps barbs? What! I'm a super good aps barb on our server!
    But I always solo stuff on him or use him for my own things, so he never end up in squads with anybody else other than me and some close friends b:chuckle b:cute Explains why nobody know him :P
    youtube.com/user/Cebloon
    ~ not that there is that much to see (yet?)
  • CapnK - SanctuaryCapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Well the ones I've seen do a worse job of pulling mobs than standard barbs (in Lunar, Warsong, etc.). And I don't need a barb for single target damage, I can do that myself.

    And as for PVP, let me present you an actual quote I got in NW:

    "Why don't you die to +11 fists?"

    I'll let you guess which barb that was.
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