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Keeping aggro

silverbotsilverbot Posts: 21 Arc User
edited June 2015 in Barbarian
Is there any secret of a barb aggro skill combo?

All I usually do is to hold the Ream button and Devour in the cooldowns.
Everything else I decide to do, I do it to gain chi or frighten.

Also there are lots of times when some Sin sparks like hell disregarding his survivability and there is a moment when Ream doesnt take aggro even for a milisecond.
Post edited by silverbot on

Comments

  • WannaBM - ArchosaurWannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Even when using skills, half the aggro comes from the damage you do.
    To increase your aggro:

    Get better gear (R9, weapon refines, other things that enhance damage)
    Get strength instead of vit
    Get stomp of the king
    Get your aggro skills level 11

    Still, you wont hold agro permanently against better equiped DDs.
    You can however have partial aggro, making the agro swap to you every time you cast ream and then back to the DD before you can ream again.

    If the DD can tank fine, dont bother trying to have aggro, just keep up devour, make chi and be ready to take aggro and tank in case of emergency.

    If the DD cannot tank, do what you can to generate as much aggro as you can, and hope the DD is smart enough to hold back so he wont take more aggro than he can handle. Everyone in PWI knows that barbs cant hold aggro against better equiped toons, so if they steal aggro and die, its their own fault.

    If you are unsure, ask if they want you to try holding aggro or not. Some will like it if you make the boss change aggro between you and the DD all the time, some do not. Obviously if the DD is OP and clearly able to tank himself, you dont need to ask and can just forget about reaming.
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • eirghaneirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    the genie skill alpha male is helpful in aggro emergencies as well <3
  • ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens TearImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    eirghan wrote: »
    the genie skill alpha male is helpful in aggro emergencies as well <3

    Might as well carry a purse, if you need a genie aggro skill as a barb.

    \gets beaten with that purse
    \\BRB, wife aggro
  • eirghaneirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Might as well carry a purse, if you need a genie aggro skill as a barb.

    \gets beaten with that purse
    \\BRB, wife aggro

    im guessing you can hold aggro over high dds that out dd you then? Good for you. This barb cant and hes asking for suggestions on how to get better. Personally i think a barb striving to get better has already out barbed any other that thinks he doesnt need anything but a faceroll to be a pro aggro maintainer and constantly has it stolen time and again.

    Holding purses, while very pretty on a barb, doesnt help with aggro.
  • Mayfly - DreamweaverMayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Alpha Male is an aggro reset, and gives very little aggro, even less than Roar (which is also an aggro reset.)
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  • eirghaneirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Alpha Male is an aggro reset, and gives very little aggro, even less than Roar (which is also an aggro reset.)

    yes please reread my post.
  • DarkSkiesx - DreamweaverDarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    eirghan wrote: »
    yes please reread my post.

    Not sure why you're directing back to your post it contains less information. Mayfly is building upon your post as extra info about what you said is helpful to the OP. All you said is that Alpha Male can be used in emergencies. Although it's advice you didnt say what it does or how it works. Mayfly wasn't refuting what you said.. why so defensive o.o

    Iirc aggro resets are usually pointless in most situations except as you rightly stated emergencies, because you take everyone off the threat table and draw a little aggro to yourself, so this works great in the rare situation where the squad stops attacking the boss.

    As WannaBM posted the better approach is to let them tank rather than ping pong aggro around as aggro resets will do, for example at blossom boss in FSP could cause a partial squad wipe.

    I agree aggro is highly gear related nowadays hence the whole wow u op you held aggro off me stuff.
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  • jairoluisjairoluis Posts: 215 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    as a demon barb you can use the bestial onslaught and use any hatred generator... helps a lot and no need to use genie unless you run out of chi...helps to keep anger for a while even with r9's in the team... and try to get stomp of the beast king....helps to generate massive amounts of hatred + your crit chance = more time to generate more hatred from boss
  • Evryn - MoraiEvryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    As a sage barb, I'm often tanking frog severely lesser geared then the primary DDs. Then again, I tanked frog fine in Morai95 gear before I upgraded...
    How I do it (I am a sage barb, 200vit, 80 dex, rest str):
    - Start out with full chi. Shapeshift gives chi so it's no problem to do.
    - Open up with Bestial Rage, Devour
    - Repeating combo of Flesh Ream, Stomp of the King, Alacracity of the Beast. Sage ream consumes little chi, so you'll not run out any time soon. Put this combo on a macro so you can resume it easily when stunned.
    - If you do run out of chi, go human form, throw Untamed Wrath and back to beast form. It's fast and gives 90 chi on sage. Simpler is to refill chi using Bestial Rage, or even Li's Technique.

    If someone steals aggro from you while you're spamming ream and stomp like that, then they simply outclass you for dd. It happens - ask em to tone their damage down if they don't want to tank themselves... Psys that won't go white voodoo are a good example.
    I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.

    Ulsyr 103/103/104 BM. Working on the last R9 part (Axe).
    Khelvan 103/103/103 LA Cler. LA? LA. Deal with it.
    Evryn 103/102/101 Sagely Mystical Myst of Mystiness.
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  • silverbotsilverbot Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I will have in mind the genie skill as a last resort measure when the **** hits the fan.
    If I correctly understand the therm "aggro reset", it means that all the points of aggro of all players are reset to zero. And aggro starts building individually from the point of use of the specific skill.

    Also as far as know, the aggro mechanics are relatively easy to comprehand. Every point of damage is transferred as aggro. Some skills like Ream multiply that dmg(i think it was x2 in particular) into aggro by a specific value.
    Skills with dot add the aggro of all accumulated dmg instantly.
    Healing skills add aoe aggro to all mobs and is equal to the total amount of health restored.
    Can somebody verify everything ive said ?

    The description of Stomp never said anything about aggro, so its very useful info and i will try it in the mentioned combo.

    Ofcourse upgrading skills to lvl11 and buying/refining is the obvious thing to do, but considering my whole equipment costs 5 coins, its a bit hard to gather 20 mil for a single skill. What im saying is that until i get better equipment, id better maximize my play.

    The dmg reduction in tiger form is the reason i regret going sage, cause demon would do more dmg hence more aggro. Although i have no idea how the stated -50% dmg works, cause I dont think the difference is more than 15-20% between tiger and human form. Probably the formula isnt deviding by 2 the base or the final dmg. However thats probably a matter for another thread.

    I consider the barb to have the hardest role after the cleric and some times i cant help but think that if I have made a DD I would have gotten further at this point...
  • opkossyopkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited April 2015
    silverbot wrote: »
    The dmg reduction in tiger form is the reason i regret going sage, cause demon would do more dmg hence more aggro. Although i have no idea how the stated -50% dmg works, cause I dont think the difference is more than 15-20% between tiger and human form. Probably the formula isnt deviding by 2 the base or the final dmg. However thats probably a matter for another thread.

    When you get panda form, that reduction will no longer apply.

    Also, it's 50% weapon damage reduced. A very small part of the formula for damage itself and the more str you have (not to mention the inclusion of buffs and passives), the less that reduction actually matters.
    (Insert fancy image here)
    image
  • silverbotsilverbot Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Isnt Panda form just a visual representation of Tiger form? I see there are sage and demon panda skills and they get more hp and 0%dmg reduction same as tiger.
  • WannaBM - ArchosaurWannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    About the aggro mechanics:

    Aggro reset does not exist. Ream, roar and alpha male all do the same thing:
    Set your aggro equal to that of the one on top of the aggro list and add an x amount on top of that.

    The x amount is made of 2 components. The damage you do with the skill and the extra aggro effect. I have tested it in the past, the extra aggro effect does not depend on the damage you do, it is a set amount for the skill.
    I dont remember the exact number, but it was something near 20k for both ream and roar.



    Thus, i dont think alpha male or roar are particularly usefull really except for the fact that they are AOE. On single targets, ream is simply better (since it also does damage and bleed) and its cooldown is short enough that these 2 skills have little use.
    They arent harmfull either though. The aggro reset thing is an urban myth.
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • ballenatoballenato Posts: 240 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    silverbot wrote: »

    The dmg reduction in tiger form is the reason i regret going sage, cause demon would do more dmg hence more aggro. Although i have no idea how the stated -50% dmg works, cause I dont think the difference is more than 15-20% between tiger and human form.

    Sage barbs have no longer damage reduction once u upgrade your True form into Mighty Form (lv 12), Or when u adquire your Panda form...
    silverbot wrote: »
    Isnt Panda form just a visual representation of Tiger form? I see there are sage and demon panda skills and they get more hp and 0%dmg reduction same as tiger.


    Technically, once u get Mighty True Form and Panda Form, they BOTH give same bonuses, wich are

    Sage Mighty Form: increasing maximum Health by 40% and speed by 90% + Gives 20 chi when casted + No longer damage reduction
    Sage Panda Form: increasing maximum Health by 40% and speed by 90% + Gives 20 chi when casted + No longer damage reduction.

    Demon Mighty Form: increasing maximum Health by 30% and speed by 80%. + Reduces Attacker's critical chance by 5% for 6 seconds
    Demon Panda Form: increasing maximum Health by 30% and speed by 80%. + Reduces Attacker's critical chance by 5% for 6 seconds

    Clearly, demons got ****ed up on this update.
  • ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens TearImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    eirghan wrote: »
    im guessing you can hold aggro over high dds that out dd you then? Good for you. This barb cant and hes asking for suggestions on how to get better. Personally i think a barb striving to get better has already out barbed any other that thinks he doesnt need anything but a faceroll to be a pro aggro maintainer and constantly has it stolen time and again.

    Holding purses, while very pretty on a barb, doesnt help with aggro.

    I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but compared to FleshReam and sheer damage, the Alpha Male genie skill is like smacking an elephant with a Badminton racket. Yea, the elephant notices but compared to the Aggro Chainsaw of FleshReam it's pretty weak and frankly useless.

    I've always assumed Alpha Male was for other classes that don't have a skill like FleshReam.

    Kind of like a Nerf version of Roar. b:laugh Covered in foam, so it doesn't really hurt anyone.
    OPKossy wrote: »
    When you get panda form, that reduction will no longer apply.

    Also, it's 50% weapon damage reduced. A very small part of the formula for damage itself and the more str you have (not to mention the inclusion of buffs and passives), the less that reduction actually matters.

    I thought the new transform that you can purchase, along with the separate Panda form, was what gave you the new specs. I thought Panda Form itself was just the appearance, and that you could get the skill upgrade without actually being forced to use what *I* personally think is an ugly-*** Panda form.

    \regret wasting 5M coin on that damn ugly Panda

    \\edit: answered above. Still wish I could get my 5M back
    About the aggro mechanics:

    Aggro reset does not exist. Ream, roar and alpha male all do the same thing:
    Set your aggro equal to that of the one on top of the aggro list and add an x amount on top of that.

    The x amount is made of 2 components. The damage you do with the skill and the extra aggro effect. I have tested it in the past, the extra aggro effect does not depend on the damage you do, it is a set amount for the skill.
    I dont remember the exact number, but it was something near 20k for both ream and roar.



    Thus, i dont think alpha male or roar are particularly usefull really except for the fact that they are AOE. On single targets, ream is simply better (since it also does damage and bleed) and its cooldown is short enough that these 2 skills have little use.
    They arent harmfull either though. The aggro reset thing is an urban myth.

    It's a shame that whole 'urban myth' thing works in practice.

    Grab aggro on a boss with FleshReam.
    Have several other people beat on the boss too.
    Roar.
    Whoever's doing the most straight DD damage (not using fleshream) has a pretty good chance to take aggro. That's not a reset?
  • silverbotsilverbot Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    The situation you have just described would always develop the same way regardless of the skill being "reset" or not.
    What I understand is that if a DD has 500k aggro, barb has 450k and the rest 2 dds have 200k.
    A roar would increase barb aggro to 500k. Wich means that if top DD stops attacking and barb stops or needs to change position, the rest of DDs wouldnt take the aggro from the barb even if they continue attacking.
    Where if it was a reset skill, they would take it and the **** storm would begin.

    I feel that Roar is pretty useless against bosses. It has very limited use, cause if a DD can steal the aggro, most of the times said DD can tank. Against bosses Roar can only be used as a last resort to take aggro before someone dies and that char must stop attacking (wich usually they dont).
    Only useful use is when a barb runs into a few mobs and healer is dumb enough to heal the missing 3% health and all mobs go for the cleric. The second use is when in the same situation people start attacking random mobs instead the one with reamed flesh. Ofcourse using AOE helps stormbringers get killed pretty fast if Roar is on CD and they start blaming the barb, cause they dont understand aggro mechanics.
  • ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens TearImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    silverbot wrote: »
    The situation you have just described would always develop the same way regardless of the skill being "reset" or not.
    What I understand is that if a DD has 500k aggro, barb has 450k and the rest 2 dds have 200k.
    A roar would increase barb aggro to 500k. Wich means that if top DD stops attacking and barb stops or needs to change position, the rest of DDs wouldnt take the aggro from the barb even if they continue attacking.
    Where if it was a reset skill, they would take it and the **** storm would begin.

    If your barb has less aggro than the DD, then he's not tanking. If your barb can't hold aggro with FleshReam, then worrying about resetting aggro is rather pointless.

    And with today's gear, and today's DD's lack of common sense ("I can tank this!") it's rare to find a barb who can hold aggro from half the classes in the game. If he can, he's so OP that he probably ignores everyone else in the instance anyway.
    silverbot wrote: »
    I feel that Roar is pretty useless against bosses. It has very limited use, cause if a DD can steal the aggro, most of the times said DD can tank. Against bosses Roar can only be used as a last resort to take aggro before someone dies and that char must stop attacking (wich usually they dont).
    Only useful use is when a barb runs into a few mobs and healer is dumb enough to heal the missing 3% health and all mobs go for the cleric. The second use is when in the same situation people start attacking random mobs instead the one with reamed flesh. Ofcourse using AOE helps stormbringers get killed pretty fast if Roar is on CD and they start blaming the barb, cause they dont understand aggro mechanics.

    And now you demonstrate the real uses for Roar, which half of the alt-barbs seem to not understand. Not to mention you're saying the same thing I said - roar isn't for tanking, or keeping a boss' aggro. It's for the first hit, or grabbing a pile of mobs. The brainless barbs that throw Roar into the rotation with FleshReam and Devour - they are resetting their aggro stack. In their favor - for a second - and then the next 4 miles away Archer hit takes it away, and the boss runs for the archer, and the archer dies, and screams at the barb.

    Ta-Da!
  • Slivaf - DreamweaverSlivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited May 2015


    And now you demonstrate the real uses for Roar, which half of the alt-barbs seem to not understand. Not to mention you're saying the same thing I said - roar isn't for tanking, or keeping a boss' aggro. It's for the first hit, or grabbing a pile of mobs. The brainless barbs that throw Roar into the rotation with FleshReam and Devour - they are resetting their aggro stack. In their favor - for a second - and then the next 4 miles away Archer hit takes it away, and the boss runs for the archer, and the archer dies, and screams at the barb.

    Ta-Da!

    I have never had this happen to me on my alt barbs while tanking, and throwing roar in the rotation.

    I'm not saying I haven't ever lost aggro on my barb, because obviously I have, but I really doubt it was from a ill timed roar with it. (Generally I keep aggro on the barb pretty damn well... stomp of the king ftw.)
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  • KeepMeAIive - Raging TideKeepMeAIive - Raging Tide Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    If your barb has less aggro than the DD, then he's not tanking. If your barb can't hold aggro with FleshReam, then worrying about resetting aggro is rather pointless.

    And with today's gear, and today's DD's lack of common sense ("I can tank this!") it's rare to find a barb who can hold aggro from half the classes in the game. If he can, he's so OP that he probably ignores everyone else in the instance anyway.



    And now you demonstrate the real uses for Roar, which half of the alt-barbs seem to not understand. Not to mention you're saying the same thing I said - roar isn't for tanking, or keeping a boss' aggro. It's for the first hit, or grabbing a pile of mobs. The brainless barbs that throw Roar into the rotation with FleshReam and Devour - they are resetting their aggro stack. In their favor - for a second - and then the next 4 miles away Archer hit takes it away, and the boss runs for the archer, and the archer dies, and screams at the barb.

    Ta-Da!

    Yes yes and more yes to this post.
    I learnt very early on roar is NOT for bosses. Roar was nice in FC when the cleric was really trigger happy or a DD would run ahead, but on single bosses, when roar is finished channeling and it's casting, sometimes even before the animation is finished agro is already lost again.

    Devour can be a pretty good agro keeper for full vit barbs as 20% of their hp is counted towards agro. Full str barbs with endgame gear will probably benefit from DD-ing in humanoid form. At the end of the day though agro doesn't really depend on you.. if you have endgame DD in squad and the BM HF's timing to their 3x spark or seeker debuffs for wizards/psys then keeping agro is little bit hard. If you're in humanoid form and the DD's time their triple spark to yours then you have a pretty good chance of keeping agro!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Evryn - MoraiEvryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    And now you demonstrate the real uses for Roar, which half of the alt-barbs seem to not understand. Not to mention you're saying the same thing I said - roar isn't for tanking, or keeping a boss' aggro. It's for the first hit, or grabbing a pile of mobs. The brainless barbs that throw Roar into the rotation with FleshReam and Devour - they are resetting their aggro stack. In their favor - for a second - and then the next 4 miles away Archer hit takes it away, and the boss runs for the archer, and the archer dies, and screams at the barb.

    Ta-Da!

    There is one valid use for Roar at frog though. Frog will throw his axe at the person with second highest aggro. If that person just got hit by the axe slam and the barb regrabs the boss with ream, then the person with second highest aggro will be out of range. But the axe will still go there! Dying to chop doesn't reset your aggro - only getting hit by the axe debuff will reset your aggro at frog.

    So to prevent axe bug, reset the aggro stack with roar at that point and resume your aggro combo.
    I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.

    Ulsyr 103/103/104 BM. Working on the last R9 part (Axe).
    Khelvan 103/103/103 LA Cler. LA? LA. Deal with it.
    Evryn 103/102/101 Sagely Mystical Myst of Mystiness.
    Gromth 102/102/102 Sage Panda.
    StoneSnake - Snakeshop for everyone's common stones.
  • ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens TearImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    There is one valid use for Roar at frog though. Frog will throw his axe at the person with second highest aggro. If that person just got hit by the axe slam and the barb regrabs the boss with ream, then the person with second highest aggro will be out of range. But the axe will still go there! Dying to chop doesn't reset your aggro - only getting hit by the axe debuff will reset your aggro at frog.

    So to prevent axe bug, reset the aggro stack with roar at that point and resume your aggro combo.

    I thought 'resetting aggro' was an Urban Legend?

    b:chuckle
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