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AEU cape or NW cape?

demansfairydemansfairy Posts: 456 Arc User
edited May 2015 in Stormbringer
So I'll be able to afford another matchless wings soon and I was wonder, should I go with the AEU or the NW upgrade? AEU has the extra p Def and that 4% reduction mod which would be extremely useful weather I'm in reaper Form or not. The NW has more he though, an extra Def lv and +.1m/s more run speed which could be useful since we are a run a cast class...What are your guys opinions and why?
Post edited by demansfairy on
full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105

Comments

  • dat1guyydat1guyy Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I personally prefer the NW cape over the AEU cape. Unless you have a Crown of Maddness or plan to get it. The +100 pdef more is like a garnet shard close to an incomparable garnet shard worth maybe 7mil (+85) but 1 Def level is like a DoD worth 100mil+. the NW cape has more HP on top of that as well. Since I like utility, the move speed of 0.1 m/s is even a lot to me.

    You can always find Cards with +180 pdef to use to so the difference between either capes is not that much of a big deal. The only thing is if you had the Crown of Maddness, obviously having the AEU cape would be indeed better to get the extra 9 atk levels.
  • Joe - MoraiJoe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Nah Nah. The Wings of Ascension is always better than the NW cape. 1 Def level is neglicable, so is the speed addon and the 5 more vit. 100 more Pdef are also neglicable, true. But 4% in reduce of physical dmg is not neglicable and is the killer argument for the wings.

    Even if you don't plan of getting (or more likely never will get one) a CoM it's still a fact that you could get it to complete the set whilst the Heaven Ravager does not have any kind of set.

    The only pro you could aslo see for the NW cape is that you get 133 HP more compared to the WoA on +12 refines. Yet again, also neglicable. The pdef reduction is what really makes a dif in PvP.

    IMHO both are not worth it and I'll personally stick with my G16 Helm and Cape. Why? Cost is a huge factor. 2b for the matchless wings alone is already equal to 6x +11* Orbs. So unless I'm full +12 (cept cape and helm ofc) there is no logical reason to go for this cape. The extra stats + HP bonus make up for the lack in resistances pretty much, especially in a situation where I got full +11 gears/ornaments with the G16 combo and another would have full +10 gears/orns with just the cape. Even at full +12 I can assure you that the dif. between NW cape/WoA + NW helm and the G16 combo is not worth the cost and does make 0 dif. in a competitive fight (yes I tested this on Pservers and obviously the NW Helm/cape is better but the dif is nearly not noticeable, you might also wanna compare those setups via mypers). The only reasonable upgrade would be CoM + WoA due to the 8 Att level set bonus.

    Conclusion: Aim for full +12 before even considering this **** xDD Why? Because you would be weaker meanwhile if you dont (cept you are already at full +12 then go ahead xD).
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • Eoria - HarshlandsEoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    AEU so you don't have to go remake a damn cape if you by some chance get a Crown.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
    I <3 Subtraction.
    /blatant sig copy is blatant

    105/105/105 obtained! b:cute
  • demansfairydemansfairy Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Nah Nah. The Wings of Ascension is always better than the NW cape. 1 Def level is neglicable, so is the speed addon and the 5 more vit. 100 more Pdef are also neglicable, true. But 4% in reduce of physical dmg is not neglicable and is the killer argument for the wings.

    Even if you don't plan of getting (or more likely never will get one) a CoM it's still a fact that you could get it to complete the set whilst the Heaven Ravager does not have any kind of set.

    The only pro you could aslo see for the NW cape is that you get 133 HP more compared to the WoA on +12 refines. Yet again, also neglicable. The pdef reduction is what really makes a dif in PvP.

    IMHO both are not worth it and I'll personally stick with my G16 Helm and Cape. Why? Cost is a huge factor. 2b for the matchless wings alone is already equal to 6x +11* Orbs. So unless I'm full +12 (cept cape and helm ofc) there is no logical reason to go for this cape. The extra stats + HP bonus make up for the lack in resistances pretty much, especially in a situation where I got full +11 gears/ornaments with the G16 combo and another would have full +10 gears/orns with just the cape. Even at full +12 I can assure you that the dif. between NW cape/WoA + NW helm and the G16 combo is not worth the cost and does make 0 dif. in a competitive fight (yes I tested this on Pservers and obviously the NW Helm/cape is better but the dif is nearly not noticeable, you might also wanna compare those setups via mypers). The only reasonable upgrade would be CoM + WoA due to the 8 Att level set bonus.

    Conclusion: Aim for full +12 before even considering this **** xDD Why? Because you would be weaker meanwhile if you dont (cept you are already at full +12 then go ahead xD).

    That 4% is what I was thinking would be the deciding factor. As for the rest of the post though, matchless is far less on my server, 1 bil tops, cost to upgrade it is also another 300mil maybe. It's about the same price as 3 12* orbs on my server. Idk about it being as good/almost same as the NV helm/cape combo. I mean 500 more p Def, 4% reduction, and 5 Def lv seems like it would big a bigger factor that what you imply 0_o. Especially since that means another 3-3.5k more p Def full buffed +reaper and 1.5k or so m def? And that's without sacrifice damage due to the helms 10 magic and 3 att lv to compensate for the 40 magic or so you're losing. There also the fact that getting gear to +11 cost next to nothing anymore due to mass promotions... if it's bound, and I can't bring myself to bind nv3 gear.

    Tldr; seems like AEU cape the better option, and to joe, you're gonna have to explain to me a bit more how it's better even at cost wise to keep nv3.

    Would only be about 2 bil or so to get the AEU cape, GB helm, AND +11 both pieces which seems low in cost compared to say, cards, josd, and even +12 orbs comparing stats gained from ea option.
    full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105
  • Evryn - MoraiEvryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    For a storm, definately go with extra speed... Casting on the run means you can take maximum advantage of that.
    I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.

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  • DionDagger - DreamweaverDionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    For a storm, definately go with extra speed... Casting on the run means you can take maximum advantage of that.

    4% physical dmg reduction>tiny amounts of run speed on a caster
  • eirghaneirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I personally chose NW. But keep in mind i am an HA class. The improved mdef, vit, and defense is what i wanted. I could enjoy increased physical defense but for me that wasnt my main concern. Aeu is always better with the helm but considering it doesnt exist on my server (and if i did get it id sell it and make zillions) I decided that wasnt even something to consider for myself.
    That said if i was making this robe for a caster class i would compare in mypers. If this is for an sb i would think speed would be very attractive indeed, but the 4% is like two josds just for physical damage. Thats pretty damn op. I think it really comes down to personal choice and play style. Kind of like diety vs josd.
    Joe has a good point about not worrying about this gear until youre basically already endgame. Nw ornaments and refines will be more worth your money and time until then.
  • dat1guyydat1guyy Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    If the 4% or 100 pdef is so important, then so is the 1 def level or 5 extra vit and HP refines, etc. lol. Like I said, if it was only capes I would say NW is better. Either way it is not that much a big deal either path you take. If it really matters this much, then I would suggest rerolling your rrr9 gear until you get perfect rolls. I've seen so many people with mediocre rolls on their gear that they +10-12.

    My helm is still currently +7 only and I deciding whether to lose the refines and reroll it for 4 sockets + mediocre rolls or a bit more MAG stats (we're talking like only 3 or 4 more).

    G16 set has a possible 20% pdef and 20% mdef chance to get. From the looks of it, armor-wise only full 6 piece g16 is on the same level as rrr9. Obviously rrr9 offers more offensive dmg but defense-wise the 25 def levels and HP adds can be close to G16's addons. Of course no one go full g16+12 armor though but what I am trying to say is the differences are very minimal, and if it did mattered there are always other similar areas with potential improvement as well.
  • catgirl33catgirl33 Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I personally think the NW cape is better for SB

    Advantage:

    ~Higher movement speed on ground

    SB frequently can move while casting, they can utilize this add-on more often. I know 0.1+ is not much of a difference. But when a SB is constantly moving, this adds up and improves their kiting abilities. Also good to chase down a fleeing target that has lower movement speed than your and without movement buff.

    ~Higher refining rate + More Utilizable Add-ons

    Nw Cape gives a bit more HP, Vit and Def Lv. SB is the same as other AA classes naturally has lower HP than other LA/HA classes. So having a bit more HP is more effective on AA than on LA/HA classes. A little of Vit/Def Lv/Hp helps improve your endurance against any class.

    Disavantage:

    ~Absence of the Reduce Physical Damage Taken Add-on
    Reduce Physical Damage allows SB to take slightly less damage when receiving incoming physical damage.

    I personally think this is very inefficient on a SB because SB already has some resistance against 5 out of the 6 main physical damage dealers.

    *Passive Reduces melee damage, add some resistance against most of the attacks from Sin, BM, Barb and DB.
    *Squad buff reduces damage taken from normal attack/auto attack, mostly from archers and aps sins.
    *1/3rd of the time SB can on Reaper form +300% of base physical defense. Even when without other class buffs, +300% pdef is quite a lot to enable a SB ability to tank a lot of physical damage.
    *Bleed effect ignores the ability of this add-on.


    Overall, I just think the Reduce Physical Damage Taken add-on doesn’t outweigh how much more a SB can utilize the NW cape. Of course Aeu cape isn’t that bad, because SB is still quite vulnerable to Seeker and Cleric. Seeker is ranged & deal physical damage will be hard to kite from this class as well as Churning Vortex skill is pretty useless on the Seeker. Cleric’s Plume shot is quite spammable, it can be a threat when Sb is not on reaper form.

    I might be wrong, but SB seem to be more vulnerable to ranged attackers no matter it’s magic or physical except for auto-attack archers. Especially when facing a class that can deals magic and physical it becomes tricky so having more hp will help regardless of what damage type they choose to use on the SB.

    But of course, the theory, the more you can tank as an AA, the more likely purify proc will trigger. When purify proc happens, it purify + increases movement by 200% then the SB can kite. This only work well against mainly short ranged physical dealer , Sb might get caught again by a paralyze effect (the classes that can launch a paralyze effect, barb/sin/bm – deal mostly melee damage) and continue to take damage. SB already has some resistance against those classes and can kite very well from them; churning vortex makes SB kites even better against melee.

    I think the slightly higher Hp/Speed will often do more than physical damage reduction for a SB. But then later someone will argue when you holy path or purify proc, you’ll be on max speed anyway. And say SB is an AA class and AA class lacks pdef. They would say Aeu Cape gives more pdef and you should get Star’s Destiny ring as well and blah blah blah.
    -Tideswell-
    ~Yuuniee (Cleric)
    ~iRaining (Duskblade)
    ~MelodyLove (Assassin)
  • DionDagger - DreamweaverDionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    catgirl33 wrote: »
    I personally think the NW cape is better for SB

    Advantage:

    ~Higher movement speed on ground

    SB frequently can move while casting, they can utilize this add-on more often. I know 0.1+ is not much of a difference. But when a SB is constantly moving, this adds up and improves their kiting abilities. Also good to chase down a fleeing target that has lower movement speed than your and without movement buff.

    Lets say a storm bringer has 90% physical reduction (not other -% reductions) and get hit for 10k. That 4% will reduce it to 6k damage. You are gonna honestly sit here and say that a little bit of run speed is better than shaving 4k off damage? This isn't about theory, this is about practice. Even with Purify, you are not gonna outrun a sin or barb that has holy path. And 100 or so HP doesnt give anywhere near the same effective health as 4% damage reduction. Unless you have under 8k hp, and thats a problem within itself. Storm Bringer have a 10 sec movement speed skill with an anti stun. NO OTHER CASTER HAS THIS! And lets not forget you can extend the range of your skills, which means you don't even have to move sometimes. Then on top of that Reaper form gives movement speed. Gimping your defenses for a tiny bit of movespeed is overkill and makes no, objective sense.

    ~Higher refining rate + More Utilizable Add-ons

    Nw Cape gives a bit more HP, Vit and Def Lv. SB is the same as other AA classes naturally has lower HP than other LA/HA classes. So having a bit more HP is more effective on AA than on LA/HA classes. A little of Vit/Def Lv/Hp helps improve your endurance against any class.

    4% reduction >1 def level +100 hp+5 vit. Unless you have under 8k base HP.

    Disavantage:

    ~Absence of the Reduce Physical Damage Taken Add-on
    Reduce Physical Damage allows SB to take slightly less damage when receiving incoming physical damage.

    I personally think this is very inefficient on a SB because SB already has some resistance against 5 out of the 6 main physical damage dealers.

    They don't. They can be easily killed just like any other AA class. And since their buffs are squad buffs they fall even further behind. They have no seal resistance, and are very susceptable to debuffs like mire, which reduce the effectiveness of their already lacking pdef buffs. The only exception to this is reaper mode, but even then a STR genie mire can reduced gear pdef by 75%, basically making reaper mode similar to a wizard sheild or even weaker in some cases.

    *Passive Reduces melee damage, add some resistance against most of the attacks from Sin, BM, Barb and DB.
    *Squad buff reduces damage taken from normal attack/auto attack, mostly from archers and aps sins.
    *1/3rd of the time SB can on Reaper form +300% of base physical defense. Even when without other class buffs, +300% pdef is quite a lot to enable a SB ability to tank a lot of physical damage.
    *Bleed effect ignores the ability of this add-on.


    Overall, I just think the Reduce Physical Damage Taken add-on doesn’t outweigh how much more a SB can utilize the NW cape. Of course Aeu cape isn’t that bad, because SB is still quite vulnerable to Seeker and Cleric. Seeker is ranged & deal physical damage will be hard to kite from this class as well as Churning Vortex skill is pretty useless on the Seeker. Cleric’s Plume shot is quite spammable, it can be a threat when Sb is not on reaper form.

    This assumption that you are going to be able to move around all the time on a SB and kite is absurd. Im here to tell you, you are not. When you get frozen for 15 sec by sage Tackling slash, where is you movement speed then? No where, because you can't move, making it worthless.

    I might be wrong, but SB seem to be more vulnerable to ranged attackers no matter it’s magic or physical except for auto-attack archers. Especially when facing a class that can deals magic and physical it becomes tricky so having more hp will help regardless of what damage type they choose to use on the SB.

    Actually id say they are more vulnerable to anything with a varieity of CC and sticking power. They can just kite other casters with move based skills. 100 hp is neglegable. This point is useless.

    But of course, the theory, the more you can tank as an AA, the more likely purify proc will trigger. When purify proc happens, it purify + increases movement by 200% then the SB can kite. This only work well against mainly short ranged physical dealer , Sb might get caught again by a paralyze effect (the classes that can launch a paralyze effect, barb/sin/bm – deal mostly melee damage) and continue to take damage. SB already has some resistance against those classes and can kite very well from them; churning vortex makes SB kites even better against melee.

    Sins don't have a paralyze, and i already showed you how useless churning vortex is against anyone with a brain.

    I think the slightly higher Hp/Speed will often do more than physical damage reduction for a SB. But then later someone will argue when you holy path or purify proc, you’ll be on max speed anyway. And say SB is an AA class and AA class lacks pdef. They would say Aeu Cape gives more pdef and you should get Star’s Destiny ring as well and blah blah blah.

    Why get stars destiny when they have fingerbead? Assuming you could even find one. It isn't about what you 'think', it's about what you can prove.

    All your arguments go back to movespeed and 100 HP, which are both almost useless in the event you aren't moving, which happens a lot. Stormbringers still have skills that require them to stand still you know.
  • demansfairydemansfairy Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Why get stars destiny when they have fingerbead? Assuming you could even find one. It isn't about what you 'think', it's about what you can prove.

    All your arguments go back to movespeed and 100 HP, which are both almost useless in the event you aren't moving, which happens a lot. Stormbringers still have skills that require them to stand still you know.
    Really think imma go w/ AEU cape now, however some of your points are wrong, the reduce phy damage doesn't add w/ your current reduction, it's its own separate reduction applied after your p Def reducton. So if you get hit w/ let's say 10 phy att and have 90 % phy reduction, then you're getting hit for 1k. THEN your getting reduc r damage mode further reduces it by another 4%. However multiple instances of that mod, say on your boots and helm, do add up, which would be a total of 10% if you have all 3. Going from hem+boots to helm+boots+cape would make the cape give you a further reduction of 4.25%. So not as strong as you thought, hell of a lot more reduction than 1 Def lv though, will still work if you hit the damage reduction cap,
    and still potentially life saving.

    Also about the mire thing, that's a -75% I believe meaning you'd still get 225% p Def from reaper Form so it's hell of a lot less effective on us in reaper than any other class.
    full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105
  • catgirl33catgirl33 Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Reply to Dion

    Waxing Crescent only lasts 8 sec, i don't know what's the cooldown, but i would rather save it on a fleeing target than use it and move away and utilize its max range. It could backfires because the duration is very short, especially when the range buff wears off when a target is a hit from death. Even when you out-range your target, i wouldn't still stand, because Sin/DB can still teleport jump. If a SB is moving when they jump, it makes them harder to catch the SB. Unless a Sin use teleStun first or use a genie skill to catch the Sb in place. Sin can't land a tackling slash on a moving SB after they telejump unless sin uses a genie skill. SB can use genie to break free or to resist too.

    Fairy has already explained how Reduce Physical Damage Taken works. It's not as effective as you thought it would be when it stacks with other type of reduction. But like Fairy said for this add-on, the more you stack, the higher percentage you gain from every stack. i.e First time, you got 1x +4% reduce physical damage, it would guarantee reduce your incoming physical damage by 4%. Your next +% 4 Reduce Physical damage will increase your current by about 4.3%. Yeah, 1 Def level is quite pretty bad especially when your opponent atk level has 100 more than your def level. You'll need 2 def levels to make up 1% damage reduction. But the good side for def level is that it reduces all type of damages, almost or all type DoT damages too. And I also understand physical resistance is pretty much the main concern for all AA classes. But i feel like this shouldn't for SB. Not saying this add-on is bad, I got the Aeu cape for my cleric pretty much for this add-on and a bit more pdef but i think the NW cape might be better for SB.

    SB has around the same range as other casters except for seeker, most of seeker's attacking skills are 20 range. Can't kite other casters, even for seeker will prove difficulty.

    I don't see how much more vulnerable they're to to CC. SB can move and cast, this give SB a small chance to evade a CC. Unlike most other classes they have to stand still for a sec to put their defense up and when they do that they get caught again. This really depend on the class the SB is fighting as well as the SB decision making themself on the field.

    Sorry i was meant to list Barb/DB/BM that can paralyze. Thank for correcting it for mee b:cute

    And i didn't say i would recommend the Star's Destiny ring, but i know most people would. The chance to acquire the fingerbead is extremely low. For most people, i would suggest you to give up hope on that. But Fairy seem rich though, as stated getting another Matchless wing. I assume this is at least his/her 2nd Matchless wing. I believe fingerbead shouldn't be a problem for Fairy so sure why not. But I believe Fairy already has a decent ring already.


    Good luck Fairy! Aeu Cape is good too! I believe most people would prefer the Aeu cape too as well but i'm exceptional :D Like Eoria said if you ever happen to get CoM, you don't have to remake another cape. It's a win-win conclusion
    -Tideswell-
    ~Yuuniee (Cleric)
    ~iRaining (Duskblade)
    ~MelodyLove (Assassin)
  • Slewdem - DreamweaverSlewdem - Dreamweaver Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    looking at the cost to up grade to either AEU or NW does not seem like a big difference in cost.. So might aswell go the AEU just in case in near future you happens to stumble across the crown of madness helm to go with it
    Bahamas represent
  • Asterelle - SanctuaryAsterelle - Sanctuary Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    catgirl33 wrote: »
    Fairy has already explained how Reduce Physical Damage Taken works. It's not as effective as you thought it would be when it stacks with other type of reduction.
    4% is a lot at end game, even when not stacked. For instance I've got like 22k hp unbuffed. If I take 4% less damage from phys attacks thats like having 22,916 hp (22k / 0.96). How many pieces of armor do you see with a single blue stat that gives you 916 hp? That's like 7 vit stones worth. Would you rather have 1 def lev and 0.1m/s speed or 7 vit stones?

    That one stat is like having an extra piece of gear with a +10 refine on it. At least at end game.
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  • Sylvae - SanctuarySylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Yeah, I had played around with the idea of bypassing DEF/ATK level focus a while ago, by seeing how many forms of +X% phys dmg reduction could be done, but leaves it too open to magic splatting. It does leave some interesting armor swap ideas open though.

    Another thing to master is jump casting as a SB. I've found that quite nice, as it let's you move, and have great protection, while maintaining the same DPS. Sure they can tele-stun to you, but they fall to the ground and have to pop wings to get to you. That kills time off the debuff, and they do half damage even when they make it up to you.
  • teikiatsu11teikiatsu11 Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Okay so I went over this with my ingame wife before because she debated over which one and here's what I had concluded: Even though the NW cape offers and extra def lvl and a little more HP per refine the AEU cape is generally better for casters because of the physical def adds. Running each cape through the gear calc I found that the AEU one offered superior protection over the NW one but on the other hand the NW one was found better for HA classes.

    Even with what I found I think it's still debatable but I would recommend the AEU cape because when a physical class moves in (which is honestly your biggest threat) you'll want that extra def to hopefully give yourself a chance to get away.

    Hope I was helpful. b:victory
  • demansfairydemansfairy Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    @catgirl33, it's going to be my 3rd matchless also is fingerbead common on your server because I have yet to see someone selling the item or with the ring you can make from it on lost city. Would LOVE to have that ring though, I'd pay a bil or so for -6% more chan and 160 m att..
    full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105
  • catgirl33catgirl33 Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited April 2015

    4% is a lot at end game, even when not stacked. For instance I've got like 22k hp unbuffed. If I take 4% less damage from phys attacks thats like having 22,916 hp (22k / 0.96). How many pieces of armor do you see with a single blue stat that gives you 916 hp? That's like 7 vit stones worth. Would you rather have 1 def lev and 0.1m/s speed or 7 vit stones?

    That one stat is like having an extra piece of gear with a +10 refine on it. At least at end game.

    Yeah, It's like having an extra piece of gear with +10, I guess you can put it that way when SB is fighting a Seeker or Cleric who often use Plume Shots. Since the passive and squad buff don't help against those attacks. So when it doesn't stack with other type, it reduces a lot. It works very well against Sin as well, i don't disagree with you Aeu cape is definitely a tankier option. Just saying SB can find the NW cape to be more beneficial than the Aeu in some situations.
    @catgirl33, it's going to be my 3rd matchless also is fingerbead common on your server because I have yet to see someone selling the item or with the ring you can make from it on lost city. Would LOVE to have that ring though, I'd pay a bil or so for -6% more chan and 160 m att..

    I've never seen the fingerbead at west neither on wc on my server. But there is 1 person who acquired the ring within a couple of weeks after the arrival of that pack.
    -Tideswell-
    ~Yuuniee (Cleric)
    ~iRaining (Duskblade)
    ~MelodyLove (Assassin)
  • DionDagger - DreamweaverDionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Really think imma go w/ AEU cape now, however some of your points are wrong, the reduce phy damage doesn't add w/ your current reduction, it's its own separate reduction applied after your p Def reducton. So if you get hit w/ let's say 10 phy att and have 90 % phy reduction, then you're getting hit for 1k. THEN your getting reduc r damage mode further reduces it by another 4%. However multiple instances of that mod, say on your boots and helm, do add up, which would be a total of 10% if you have all 3. Going from hem+boots to helm+boots+cape would make the cape give you a further reduction of 4.25%. So not as strong as you thought, hell of a lot more reduction than 1 Def lv though, will still work if you hit the damage reduction cap,
    and still potentially life saving.

    Also about the mire thing, that's a -75% I believe meaning you'd still get 225% p Def from reaper Form so it's hell of a lot less effective on us in reaper than any other class.

    Thank you for the clarification, I'll do some testing.
  • Joe - MoraiJoe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    catgirl33 wrote: »
    Yeah, It's like having an extra piece of gear with +10, I guess you can put it that way when SB is fighting a Seeker or Cleric who often use Plume Shots. Since the passive and squad buff don't help against those attacks. So when it doesn't stack with other type, it reduces a lot. It works very well against Sin as well, i don't disagree with you Aeu cape is definitely a tankier option.

    How do you come to this? The passive does not wotk the way it is described. I thought I mentioned this a few times already in the SB subforum. The passive reduces any dmg that is dealt within melee range (5m or closer to you) by roughly 23%. Any kind of dmg. Yes. Even magical dmg. SBs buff is pretty much useless unless you fight vs aps sins/bm/aso cause it obly works on Autoattacks. It also doesnt work on ranged autoattacks...so no protection vs archer.

    I just wanted to add that the AEU capr is better for any class in any case. Sins for example deal a hell load of dmg on HA classes as well, even with capped pdef. An extra reduce will not hurt and is still way more effective than a few hp and a tiny def lvl that pretty much does nothing.

    Like I've said before: the only viable option is the G16 cape +helmet. DMG-wise those are better in any way cause of the stats. Now take the AA-Set. It grants 500 HP. Now put on that the HP% bonus from the neck and r9rr chest and a lvl11 buff and you get close to 900 HP as well...only that those are real HP. HP that will help vs melee and arcane enemies.

    So again: unless you have both WoA and CoM it is not worth it to go for the cape alone because the use of it is pretty limited. If you already have one than it is no problem cause it is a great piece of armor but not really needed.

    I will surely get a WoA as well...but not until I got a CoM and am full +12/max sharded. Why? Cause the cost/usage factor is redicolously bad on that combo compared to G16 cape+helmet. You could argue that r9rr is a deciding factor in a battle when compared to a nv3 set of the same refine but trust me, it's not true in this case. If you fight a max geared opponent with the only dif. Being the WoA/CoM combo over your g16 set than your skill alone will decide the battle. the only "real deal" for caster is the huge HP gain of CoM by refining it. Still...at this point it wont matter much. Its just the icing on the cake. Without the crown...well you know (:
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • Sylvae - SanctuarySylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Thank you for the clarification, I'll do some testing.

    Pretty sure it is separated like that. I was aiming for a -50%--75% phys dmg reduction build using gear around a year ago on my cleric, and found I wasn't a stack with the current gear level I had and the phys resist % I had.

    Still hella useful, since by each level of disparity in someone's ATTK lvl vs. your DEF lvl amps their damage; but at the same time amps the effect of your resists. It was the basis behind my idea of skipping DEF lvl to use phys dmg resist to skip the high cost of DoD stones. I was going to find the sweet spot for possible transition from garnets to some Icebournes, especially as I was eyeing OHT neck and ring which would also add some mag def.

    It's kind of the nice thing about PWI. People are mostly sheep, and dumb along on the same path someone else thought up, without thinking their might be a point where it loses its use. It's kind of fun repeatedly finding those points, and going a different direction to stay ahead. I just quit too damn often to actually make use of a lot of them.
  • demansfairydemansfairy Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Surprised no one brought this up but looking at the evasion formula on the wiki and considering ha classes have low accuracy, that extra 300 evasion from the AEU cape is a hell of a lot more chance to evade phy attacks.
    full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105
  • opkossyopkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited May 2015
    Surprised no one brought this up but looking at the evasion formula on the wiki and considering ha classes have low accuracy, that extra 300 evasion from the AEU cape is a hell of a lot more chance to evade phy attacks.

    ... No. Not even close. Prior to New Horizons allowing for double rebirth for extra stat points, max dex archers using there 10x evasion 79 skill(which tended to put them at around 20k+ evasion for a few seconds) were still getting hit more often than not by HAs using double accuracy rings... which every HA would be using post level 77 because all the good high-end phys rings have accuracy bonuses. That's without accounting for the fact that most of those classes also have at least a few skills that can never miss which makes regular evasion even less of a useful thing.
    (Insert fancy image here)
    image
  • xoinixxoinix Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    How do you come to this? The passive does not wotk the way it is described. I thought I mentioned this a few times already in the SB subforum. The passive reduces any dmg that is dealt within melee range (5m or closer to you) by roughly 23%. Any kind of dmg. Yes. Even magical dmg. SBs buff is pretty much useless unless you fight vs aps sins/bm/aso cause it obly works on Autoattacks. It also doesnt work on ranged autoattacks...so no protection vs archer.

    I thought that was fixed so it did offer protection against ranged auto atks b:sad
  • demansfairydemansfairy Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    OPKossy wrote: »
    ... No. Not even close. Prior to New Horizons allowing for double rebirth for extra stat points, max dex archers using there 10x evasion 79 skill(which tended to put them at around 20k+ evasion for a few seconds) were still getting hit more often than not by HAs using double accuracy rings... which every HA would be using post level 77 because all the good high-end phys rings have accuracy bonuses. That's without accounting for the fact that most of those classes also have at least a few skills that can never miss which makes regular evasion even less of a useful thing.
    How much accuracy do HA have? When I asked in my guild I was getting responses of 1710. Idk maybe they didn't have accuracy rings on at the time, which would be weird since they were 3r9, but I've seen weirder...
    full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105
  • teikiatsu11teikiatsu11 Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    How much accuracy do HA have? When I asked in my guild I was getting responses of 1710. Idk maybe they didn't have accuracy rings on at the time, which would be weird since they were 3r9, but I've seen weirder...

    If I'm wrong anyone can feel free to correct me but it can depend on the class build, rings, sharding and buffs but here's what I've found:
    Axe & Fist BM: 4.6k~6.9k
    Pure Axe BM: 2.8k~4.3k
    Str/Vit Barb: 2.2k~9.1k (the max does account for Blood Bath)
    Axe & Fist Barb: 4.4k~14.4k (again the max is effected by Blood Bath)
    Pure Sword Seeker: 4.4k~6k

    Again if any of these end game accuracy stats are wrong please correct me, I was going off of builds from the gear calc b:thanks
  • demansfairydemansfairy Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    If I'm wrong anyone can feel free to correct me but it can depend on the class build, rings, sharding and buffs but here's what I've found:
    Axe & Fist BM: 4.6k~6.9k
    Pure Axe BM: 2.8k~4.3k
    Str/Vit Barb: 2.2k~9.1k (the max does account for Blood Bath)
    Axe & Fist Barb: 4.4k~14.4k (again the max is effected by Blood Bath)
    Pure Sword Seeker: 4.4k~6k

    Again if any of these end game accuracy stats are wrong please correct me, I was going off of builds from the gear calc b:thanks
    Ok so let's say attacker has 7k accuracy, I currently have 610 eva, w/ the evasion formula

    (610-1)/((7000*2)+(610-1))= 4.17% , w/ a WoA cape my eva goes to 880 so
    (879)/14879=5.91%

    Not a huge difference, but still about 2% higher chance to evade physical attacks which can help a lot, especially the tanker you get.
    full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105
  • muliermulier Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    just ...... dont
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