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Sage ~ is going APS still viable?

horriguehorrigue Posts: 7 Arc User
edited April 2015 in Barbarian
So... as a Cata barb, the general consensus seems to be that going sage is the better choice.
Being a cata barb is my primary objective, so I will not compromise on that aspect of cultivation if there's a clear advantage in terms of general tankiness.

My question then becomes...
How well can a sage barb perform soloing TT or some other instance to farm coin?
I'm looking not only at APS vs skill spam, I know sages can attain 5 aps... although it does require some fancy goodies, and possibly engraves to boost dex and keep higher vit stat on the barb...

But is it really worth trying to solo TT with only 300 base strength be it with claws or skill spam?
I guess that's my real question... Will I really be doing decent damage with anything below 400-500 base
str?

I'm open to a lot of thoughts, and I'll definitely follow up on replies.

Here's roughly what I am thinking in terms of build:
APS gears on:
http://mypers.pw/1.7/#110855

Cata Gear:
http://mypers.pw/1.7/#110857
Post edited by horrigue on

Comments

  • Zoldi - MoraiZoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The good point is that you're sure to never die b:victory

    Honestly you can find a way to make TT faster than with your current gears but by definition a cata barb is not dedigned to deal damage, right ? So if your goal is to farm TT the best advice I could give is to use another toon for this purpose rather than spending some money in an APS set or whatever. The point is not about APS or skills or ..., the point is that all the vita points that you need for TW are awaste when considering damage.

    Maybe you will think I don't really answer your main question but... you should really consider this.
    ~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
    ~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
    ~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
    ~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
    ~ Sage Cleric 102 ~ Demon Wizard 101 ~
    ~ Sage Seeker 101 ~ Sage Psy 101 ~
    ~ Sage Heavy Veno 101 ~ Demon Storm 9X ~ Dusk 6x ~
    Started playing this game in 2007 on Oracle (PW-MY) : Demon MG 101 - Sage EP 99 - WF 89
  • Terrorbyte - Lost CityTerrorbyte - Lost City Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    APS is not really practical anymore, I would focus on getting your barb in r9r3 gears with a good amount of str and farm instances with that, any class with good gear who focus on skill damage can keep up with the old style APS farming now. APS has multiple nerfing on it now which makes it not as effective. The main reason APS was so useful and effective for farming was getting bp to heal you, a decent barb 2nd reborn should be able to skill spam and keep hp full with bp now, yes you can't spark as often but when you do spark and skill spam it will be alot more powerful.

    I hope this helps.
  • horriguehorrigue Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    What kind of difference in damage are we talking about Between 300 str and full str?
    5%? Or more in the 15-25% range?
  • DionDagger - DreamweaverDionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    APS is not really practical anymore, I would focus on getting your barb in r9r3 gears with a good amount of str and farm instances with that, any class with good gear who focus on skill damage can keep up with the old style APS farming now. APS has multiple nerfing on it now which makes it not as effective. The main reason APS was so useful and effective for farming was getting bp to heal you, a decent barb 2nd reborn should be able to skill spam and keep hp full with bp now, yes you can't spark as often but when you do spark and skill spam it will be alot more powerful.

    I hope this helps.

    No lol, it won't.

    Skill spam will never be nearly as fast as APS, unless you are a sin.
  • eirghaneirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    lets abandon the "aps is dead" argument for now. Sins use it for pve and so do bms. Why should a cata barb not use it?

    Because your points will still be stacked in vit for tanking. You can hit as many times as you want in a second but you still won't be doing insane damage. Maybe decent and maybe better than not but is it worth investing in that bound gear for a small advantage?

    I still would recommend another toon for farming other than a barb UNLESS you get r93 end game passives titles Meridian blablabla - at that point soloing tt isn't really a challenge for anyone.... APS or not.
  • horriguehorrigue Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    It seems you didn't check my linked calcs, I don't plan to get bound gear, but R8R / RRR9 aps combo set. So yeah.. I plan to take this barb to full endgame. There's no way I'd otherwise be a reasonable cata barb anyway.
  • eirghaneirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    horrigue wrote: »
    It seems you didn't check my linked calcs, I don't plan to get bound gear, but R8R / RRR9 aps combo set. So yeah.. I plan to take this barb to full endgame. There's no way I'd otherwise be a reasonable cata barb anyway.

    Im sorry if i didnt look at all your gear. I could link you mine and it would have as much meaning. My opinion still apllies. R93 is more than sufficient for those purposes. If you invest in r8 i would do it for def weapon. Dont waste your time and money on a specialized pve set of gear unless its something you really really want and youre going to spend all your time farming tt.

    Pve is dead if youre going end game r93 you need not waste further money on specialised pve gear. You already will be one shotting everything. Ask cata barbs on your server for their pve damage if you don't believe your eyes.

    Cost for benefit -- If you are making all lunar ornaments, rolling fists until you get double sockets with int (or using socket stones to get a second socket) and +10ing those, rerolling r8r boots and chest until you get int, for all of that you could get r93 weapon with GOF and do a lot more damage -- plus have the benefit of using it in TW. http://mypers.pw/1.7/#112029

    PS rank gear is all bound.
  • Mayfly - DreamweaverMayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    PS rank gear is all bound.

    Not exactly, it has a different set of restrictions. Rank gear can be NPCed while bound gear can not, bound gear can be account stashed while rank gear can not. Otherwise the restrictions are the same.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
    thejapanesepage.com/ebooks/yuki_no_monogatari_manga
  • eirghaneirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Not exactly, it has a different set of restrictions. Rank gear can be NPCed while bound gear can not, bound gear can be account stashed while rank gear can not. Otherwise the restrictions are the same.

    For the purpose of the conversation IE for usage vs cost it is bound IE not useable on any other toon.

    I can give definitions and links and back up till the cows come home but i only have limited time in the day. b:surrender if it doesnt directly relate to my point im not going to post it.

    Not binding rank gear is not very clever anyway.
  • Mayfly - DreamweaverMayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    If you said "for most practical purposes, rank gear is bound" I'd agree. Saying it is bound, is patently false.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
    thejapanesepage.com/ebooks/yuki_no_monogatari_manga
  • eirghaneirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    If you said "for most practical purposes, rank gear is bound" I'd agree. Saying it is bound, is patently false.

    Okee then congrats to you.
  • WannaBM - ArchosaurWannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    To answer some of the things that have been said before in this thread:

    APS still will produce about double the DPS output that Skillspam does.
    And thats for a demon barb who crits nearly every hit in skillspam, a sage barb does significantly less damage even at equal strength.

    A sage with vit build (300 str), the damage your sage barb does with skills (using an R9+12 weapon) wil be about 1/4th of what my APS barb does (and that is about equal to the average APS sin) This will make for unbelievably slow TT.

    A Sage APS barb will need to use everything that is available in the APS department. That means you will not be APSing in R9 like your demon counterpart but in R8r + TT99. On top of that, i assume you are not going to refine that stuff to +10, so you will be a squichy APS barb. Sage spark wil only make up for a small part of the difference.
    I dont expect you to be able to solo all of 3-3 uncharmed. Surely you will be able to do 2-3 though and probably 3-3 charmed. (2-3 comparatively pays well enough anyway though)

    next comes the str vs vit. Depending on the amount of STR you can get, a max STR barb can do up to double the dmg of a min str barb. If your gear is less top notch and we are looking at a comparison of say 550 vs 300 str, expect to do 50% or so more with a str setup.
    That is significant enough to say that you really want the str build to farm TT. Of course you can always farm first and restat when you are rich.

    To give you some estimate comparison for damage output: (on old bosses who dont have anti APS buff)

    Demon str R9 APS - 100
    Demon str R9 skill - 55
    Sage str R9 skill - 42
    Sage vit R9 skill - 25
    Sage str TT99/r8 5APS - 70
    Sage vit TT99/r8 5APS - 40

    5APS G16 sin - 90
    4APS R9 sin - 110
    all other classes should be in about a 45-60 range with their R9 skill spam if they maxed their primary stat.

    Only Demon str APS and skill compared to other classes i know from experience. The Sage numbers i produced from theorycrafting so they wont be too exact, but i think a decent guideline.
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
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