Question?

ritaf
ritaf Posts: 28 Arc User
edited April 2015 in General Discussion
I don't know what this falls under so I thought I would ask here.

On Harshlands server in Archosaur there is a Lvl 1 cleric named UnTouchMe that just flys the same pattern from North to East to South then back to North. Every day all day long.

Is there a reason for this?
Post edited by ritaf on
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Comments

  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited April 2015
    Short answer: It's an illegal bot that needs to have something done about it.

    Long answer: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1752711
    (Insert fancy image here)
    image
  • Satyrion - Sanctuary
    Satyrion - Sanctuary Posts: 255 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I've seen a Lv1 cleric flying around in south/north/east archousaur as well on sanctuary server for quite a while now... I didnt notice if its the exact same pattern every time though.
    youtube.com/user/Cebloon
    ~ not that there is that much to see (yet?)
  • ritaf
    ritaf Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I went to the link (and TY for that) and here what came to my mind.

    WOW just WOW people with way to much time on their hands WOW
  • Chrisssss - Sanctuary
    Chrisssss - Sanctuary Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    people with 24/7 bots loss in life imagen their electric bill? for in game coins b:chuckle
  • NRGLG - Heavens Tear
    NRGLG - Heavens Tear Posts: 393 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    They probably use an underpowered machine to do it with. You could easily run this game with a $200 laptop or low-end desktop. That would only be a dollar or two a month really. Also, from what people have stated, it sounds like the bot might be a clientless bot. Basically, this means that the bot wouldn't even need to have access to the game. It will act like the game client itself and do what it does based on whatever packets it sends or are sent from it. A machine to run something like that wouldn't even need a graphics card or a display. It could even run on DOS (maybe...).
    Kernal32.dll error? Get Arc XP for PWI because PWE Derpped -->http://www.nrgs.org/dev/arcxp/ArcXP.zip<-- (Don't select the arrows!)

    Forums. Where opinion is truth, truth are facts, facts are wrong, and wrong is an opinion.

    My site: >http://nrgs.org&lt; | Free and open source tools and utilities developed by me
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    edited April 2015
    They probably use an underpowered machine to do it with. You could easily run this game with a $200 laptop or low-end desktop. That would only be a dollar or two a month really. Also, from what people have stated, it sounds like the bot might be a clientless bot. Basically, this means that the bot wouldn't even need to have access to the game. It will act like the game client itself and do what it does based on whatever packets it sends or are sent from it. A machine to run something like that wouldn't even need a graphics card or a display. It could even run on DOS (maybe...).

    Yeah, the clientless bot is pretty neat, and uses hardly any space. The packet injection is pretty simple with PWI too, and you can even code it with AutoIt. IIRC, that's how the original bot for that purpose was created. If you had a cheap dual-core machine with about a gig of RAM, you could easily run 20-30 bots without issues.

    I've seen them for setting up catshops and doing quest chains as well. b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bloodedone87
    bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    What can a person doing this can gain beside personal satisfaction?
    Whats the reason behind someone programing a bot to do this beside the things he can obtain in game?
    giphy.gif



  • NRGLG - Heavens Tear
    NRGLG - Heavens Tear Posts: 393 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I don't really think it's any more complicated than that. Some people are driven to always have the edge, no matter what the edge may be; even if they have to climb right over it. This is essentially what the bot creators are doing. Well that or maybe they made the program for themselves then decided since the bot is good enough and is within some sort of legal gray law zone that they could also make some profit off of it. This is not terribly uncommon from what I've seen. So maybe they are making real money off of a bot that makes fake money. Seems like a smart business move if you're into that kind of thing.

    Note: I'm not condoning bot creators, I was looking at it from a fiscal and philosophical view.
    If you had a cheap dual-core machine with about a gig of RAM, you could easily run 20-30 bots without issues.

    Also assuming you have the kind of bandwidth to support it. I couldn't imagine how harsh that would be on an average consumer connection.
    Kernal32.dll error? Get Arc XP for PWI because PWE Derpped -->http://www.nrgs.org/dev/arcxp/ArcXP.zip<-- (Don't select the arrows!)

    Forums. Where opinion is truth, truth are facts, facts are wrong, and wrong is an opinion.

    My site: >http://nrgs.org&lt; | Free and open source tools and utilities developed by me
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    What can a person doing this can gain beside personal satisfaction?
    Whats the reason behind someone programing a bot to do this beside the things he can obtain in game?

    checking all the catshops in for example archo, making a table/index of current buy/sell prices, setting alerts when something cheap pops up to snatch it up fast and profit

    and of course with the clientless catshops :autoreconnecting low memory using, multi shops that dont use system resources and you can keep running all day without any effect on other things you might be doing; even playing other games or multiclienting in game playing
  • RedWoodred - Harshlands
    RedWoodred - Harshlands Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    There is more than one of these in Harshlands server.
    They can't be doing any quests, as I've followed each of them (there are three), they maintain the exact same patterns, even going to max altitude at one point in their cycle, and they are all exactly the same in looks and haven't leveled at all. UntouchMe is one (south and north Archosaur), BongoFin is another (South and West Arch) and I didn't write down the name of the third, but it covers West to North Arch.

    I called them drones when I first noticed them a few weeks ago. I thought they might be gathering data if the GMs are running them, but it just feels dirty to me. They also appear immediately after the server comes back up when weekly maintenance is done.

    Regardless of the 'gray' area involviing ToS, this shouldn't be allowed to continue, IMO. I am shocked that they are on all of the servers, though. Really, it needs to stop. Should we submit tickets? or, would that be a waste of time?
    Cash-shopper? That just means I have farmed REAL LIFE, and I want to spend my recreational funds in this game. +12 or GTFO!
    ---
    RedWoodred (Full 2nd Cast Nirvana AA Sage Veno); WiskrBisquit (Rank 9 2nd Cast Sage Archer); Puuka (Rank 8 Sage Psychic); Kanu_Unchou (Demon BM Nirvana Farmer); \Wasabi (Assassin); AerynSoon (Full G16+ Sage Seeker); DawnTreader (Mystic)
  • teikiatsu11
    teikiatsu11 Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    From what it would seem this is a very recent thing. In another thread (one which kossy linked, thank you kossy) Astrerelle gave the idea that the bots are gathering catshop data, well according to a website I had found the creator has, for a long time, been using bots to collect data on their own server and decided to bring this to every other server. So these bots are most likely owned by the creator of this website and they're gathering catshop information for their database. I'm not sure if the site itself would be considered bad but as it's common to use pwdatase I feel this site does no harm.

    Still without explination it does feel kinda shady huh? b:chuckle
  • NRGLG - Heavens Tear
    NRGLG - Heavens Tear Posts: 393 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I'm not sure if the site itself would be considered bad but as it's common to use pwdatase I feel this site does no harm.

    The PW database contains easily obtainable client-side data. This site is gathering server-side data. Therefore I consider it a false equivalency. This would in fact give the upper hand to those aware of it. Aside from that, PW does contain its own Encyclopedia which is very much like the PW database (not quite as easy to navigate). So you could go so far as to say that the PW database is providing a web version of the in-game encyclopedia. This website is not doing something like that.
    Kernal32.dll error? Get Arc XP for PWI because PWE Derpped -->http://www.nrgs.org/dev/arcxp/ArcXP.zip<-- (Don't select the arrows!)

    Forums. Where opinion is truth, truth are facts, facts are wrong, and wrong is an opinion.

    My site: >http://nrgs.org&lt; | Free and open source tools and utilities developed by me
  • avs33fan
    avs33fan Posts: 88 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    There is more than one of these in Harshlands server.
    They can't be doing any quests, as I've followed each of them (there are three), they maintain the exact same patterns, even going to max altitude at one point in their cycle, and they are all exactly the same in looks and haven't leveled at all. UntouchMe is one (south and north Archosaur), BongoFin is another (South and West Arch) and I didn't write down the name of the third, but it covers West to North Arch.

    I called them drones when I first noticed them a few weeks ago. I thought they might be gathering data if the GMs are running them, but it just feels dirty to me. They also appear immediately after the server comes back up when weekly maintenance is done.

    Regardless of the 'gray' area involviing ToS, this shouldn't be allowed to continue, IMO. I am shocked that they are on all of the servers, though. Really, it needs to stop. Should we submit tickets? or, would that be a waste of time?



    I know who is running at least 1 of them on Harshlands. I cant give out any names here cause it will be "naming and shaming". But they are a leader of a faction, with TW lands, and has been caught using bots on video before. I know people in their guild, not just in game, but outside of it, that have heard them talk about it.

    Sadly, like the other farming bots used, even with proof, PWI will not do anything about it.
  • eirghan
    eirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    i came home to find one of the sanctuary bots grew blue sparkles. Was quite a nice effect so i tried to find what it was, but no buffs and no gear other than basic elven wings and the normal wooden wand you spawn with at level 1.

    Doing stuff like that is just begging to get caught xD
  • geirskokul
    geirskokul Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Nice to know they fly high, maybe figure out the timing and drag over something like Jewelscalen to Aoe kill them without worry of hurting innocents or catshops.
  • eirghan
    eirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    geirskokul wrote: »
    Nice to know they fly high, maybe figure out the timing and drag over something like Jewelscalen to Aoe kill them without worry of hurting innocents or catshops.

    Level 1 with no gear or buffs, im sure any mob would suffice. But two wrongs dont make a right
  • geirskokul
    geirskokul Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    eirghan wrote: »
    Level 1 with no gear or buffs, im sure any mob would suffice.

    too bad there wasn't a punishment GMs could put on toons in which they become white named regardless of level and can even be hit in SZ
  • unluckygecko
    unluckygecko Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I don't really see the harm in a site like this. Main argument against it seem too be that it gives some people an unfair advantage over the people who do not know about it. But then make the general public aware of it and all can benefit from it.
  • juankael
    juankael Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Be positive... beside the +1 useless char flying around, the +1 object that you pc have to processs and... +1 etc +1 etc... you have a +1 NPC flying around making the archosaur`s view.. more lively... Actually woulnt be a bad idea to have some npc of each class walking around or flying through the area of the main cities o/
  • eyebegrindin
    eyebegrindin Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    hey, whered my post go?
  • bloodedone87
    bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    hey, whered my post go?

    Your post was delated by a mod cause it was breaking PW Forum Rules.
    giphy.gif



  • eyebegrindin
    eyebegrindin Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Your post was delated by a mod cause it was breaking PW Forum Rules.

    what part exactily?
  • war34child
    war34child Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I don't really see the harm in a site like this. Main argument against it seem too be that it gives some people an unfair advantage over the people who do not know about it. But then make the general public aware of it and all can benefit from it.

    The problems are, in this case:

    1.) they would legitimate a hacker.
    2.) they would promote an account seller.


    --> 1.) they could only legitimate it when the person would stop acting against their TOS and they would have to buy the tool. Won't happen. They even don't offer an option for the player base to enhance the game (many others give away tools for this option).

    --> 2.) While it's sad sometimes that you can't sell/buy accounts, this rule on the other hand is a protection versus gold diggers which would hyper-inflate the economy within a short time.
  • unluckygecko
    unluckygecko Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    war34child wrote: »
    The problems are, in this case:

    1.) they would legitimate a hacker.
    2.) they would promote an account seller.


    --> 1.) they could only legitimate it when the person would stop acting against their TOS and they would have to buy the tool. Won't happen. They even don't offer an option for the player base to enhance the game (many others give away tools for this option).

    --> 2.) While it's sad sometimes that you can't sell/buy accounts, this rule on the other hand is a protection versus gold diggers which would hyper-inflate the economy within a short time.

    As far as I understand it the process of gathering the data is the only thing breaking the ToS, using the site itself would be ok. It's in kind of a gray area I guess, but should not be bannable. Not that they can see that you use it anyway.
    But where do you see anything about account selling? Then I can understand why the link was removed.
  • eirghan
    eirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    what part exactily?

    ARC TOS: http://www.arcgames.com/en/about/terms
    Parts of the TOS that this site may be on the wrong side of:

    14.3Any use of the Service or the Proprietary Materials other than as specifically authorized herein, without the prior written permission of us is strictly prohibited and will, at PWE’s option, terminate the license granted herein. Such unauthorized use may also violate applicable laws including without limitation copyright and trademark laws and applicable communications regulations and statutes. Unless explicitly stated herein, nothing in these Terms shall be construed as conferring any license to or rights in intellectual property rights, whether by estoppel, implication or otherwise. This license is revocable at any time with or without cause.


    15.2Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 16, you agree not to take any of the following actions:

    k. cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;

    l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;

    28.1You hereby acknowledge and agree that:

    (a) WHEN USING THE SERVICES, THE SOFTWARE MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER’S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH THE SOFTWARE. AN “UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM” AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY “ADD-ON” OR “MOD,” THAT IN PWE’S SOLE DETERMINATION: (i) ENABLES OR FACILITATES CHEATING OF ANY TYPE; (ii) ALLOWS USERS TO MODIFY OR **** THE SOFTWARE INTERFACE, ENVIRONMENT, AND/OR EXPERIENCE IN ANY WAY NOT EXPRESSLY AUTHORIZED BY PWE; OR (iii) INTERCEPTS, “MINES,” OR OTHERWISE COLLECTS INFORMATION FROM OR THROUGH THE SOFTWARE. IN THE EVENT THAT THE SOFTWARE DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, IT MAY COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO PWE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR AND PERFECT WORLD ENTERTAINMENT MAY EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER THIS SECTION OF THE AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.






    Forum specific: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=63291

    24. No promoting the violation of Terms of Service or any of these rules.
    Solicitation of violations is, in and of itself, a violation.

    9. No links to illegal downloads or ill-gotten copyrighted materials.
    This applies to MP3s, games, pirated software, movies, books, comic scans, the works.
  • eyebegrindin
    eyebegrindin Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    eirghan wrote: »

    words about botting not even relevent to my post

    Forum specific: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=63291

    24. No promoting the violation of Terms of Service or any of these rules.
    Solicitation of violations is, in and of itself, a violation.
    wasnt promoting anything. posted a link to data collected. much like people post links to the pwi wiki and other sites with collected data about pwi
    9. No links to illegal downloads or ill-gotten copyrighted materials.
    This applies to MP3s, games, pirated software, movies, books, comic scans, the works.
    no ill gotten coppyrighted material or illigal download links here. just collected catshop data. nothing more. nothing less

    try again please.

    and ill get all the smug bear smiles out of the way right now to save you some time.
    b:chuckleb:pleasedb:laughb:byeb:shutup
  • Fail_BM - Raging Tide
    Fail_BM - Raging Tide Posts: 929 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    try again please.

    and ill get all the smug bear smiles out of the way right now to save you some time.

    Oh please, use your brain a bit more, you are obviously breaking rule #24.

    If you post a link related to the catshop database, you are obliquely promoting the bot and its creator. People will start to try to find out how to get those clientless catshops, leading to more ToS rule breakers and more possible bans.b:bye
  • eirghan
    eirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    try again please.

    and ill get all the smug bear smiles out of the way right now to save you some time.
    b:chuckleb:pleasedb:laughb:byeb:shutup

    Please read again. If you dont speak english Google has an excellent translator.

    You asked a question and i was giving you possible answers. If you don't like it dont ask....
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    edited April 2015
    As far as the ToS goes, our use of the site isn't an issue. The violation of the ToS is being performed by the person(s) using the bots to collect the data to update the site.

    Use the site all you want. The only possible issue you would have would be from targeted ads containing malicious code, and if you have protection, that's not an issue. It doesn't require that you log on or register with your information.

    Theoretically, providing a link to the site would not be a violation, but I'm not going to push that boundary.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]