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Mystic vs stormbringer/duskblade

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  • ltealtea Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    koryn7 wrote: »
    Can discharge be blocked with evil ward/faith genie skills? Also if a mystic does die from it...we can just rez ourselves and go for round two... Though of course it's better to not die in the first place haha.

    No, it can't be blocked by those genie skills. Discharge, of course, can be blocked with AD/IG, that's obvious.
    Gracess (rb2 102 Cleric) - Dreamveawer
    GraceStorm (rb2 102 Stormbringer) - Dreamveawer
  • bloodedone87bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ltea wrote: »
    No, it can't be blocked by those genie skills. Discharge, of course, can be blocked with AD/IG, that's obvious.

    Actually there were some ppl on forums saying that the skill cannot be blocked even with AD and IG.
    giphy.gif



  • ltealtea Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Actually there were some ppl on forums saying that the skill cannot be blocked even with AD and IG.

    As many times as my opponents were lucky or clever enough to pop immunity up right before me throwing discharge on them, it didn't land on them. I might do a proper testing later.
    But what I think people on forums were saying, is that you can't block it's damage with immunity.
    You can prevent it from landing on you if you're immune at the moment it's cast on you, but if it landed on you, there's no way to prevent it's damage but to stand still. No purify or immunity will help you then. b:chuckle
    Gracess (rb2 102 Cleric) - Dreamveawer
    GraceStorm (rb2 102 Stormbringer) - Dreamveawer
  • bloodedone87bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ltea wrote: »
    As many times as my opponents were lucky or clever enough to pop immunity up right before me throwing discharge on them, it didn't land on them. I might do a proper testing later.
    But what I think people on forums were saying, is that you can't block it's damage with immunity.
    You can prevent it from landing on you if you're immune at the moment it's cast on you, but if it landed on you, there's no way to prevent it's damage but to stand still. No purify or immunity will help you then. b:chuckle

    Ya, but its easy to see when a player is immune or not.
    So you dont hit him with ESD when he is immune.
    giphy.gif



  • ltealtea Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Ya, but its easy to see when a player is immune or not.
    So you dont hit him with ESD when he is immune.

    Yep, unless he pops immunity at the same moment you're hitting discharge button.
    Gracess (rb2 102 Cleric) - Dreamveawer
    GraceStorm (rb2 102 Stormbringer) - Dreamveawer
  • Ibunneh - Raging TideIbunneh - Raging Tide Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Umm Stormbringers, if I'm recalling correctly, will have TWO physical damage skills, the metal water debuff description says it hits for physical damage and reduces metal water resistance, I dont think it helps the Storms case against the Mystic, but it does have another way to hit for physical damage


    And lookie I was right!


    Falling Moon Strike (lvl 100 skill)

    Type
    Single target damage, debuff
    Range
    27m
    Chan
    2.0s
    Cast
    2.0s
    CD
    180.0s
    Move
    yes
    Chi req
    30

    Deals 240% weapon damage and 9455 physical damage, applying debuffs to reduce metal / water defenses by 100% of equipment value for 6 seconds. For each ball you have of an element type, increases the duration of the same type elemental debuff by 3 seconds.

    b:chuckle
    I love chicken wings and french fries! Yasssb:chuckle
  • koryn7koryn7 Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Looking at the list of skills that just came out for duskblades/stormbringers, I found a few in particular to be really important.

    You can find the original list here:

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/pwi/news/detail/9079543-all-new-skills,-plus-demon%2Fsage-skills!


    For DB:
    1. Annuler Eclipse: Confuse your foe with sudden darkness, increasing the cooldowns of their next two skills within 30 seconds by 1 minute.

    -I'm assuming this will be a debuff? If we use NV or Break in the Clouds with that on, that will severely impede our abilities to not be able to instantly heal or use our main attack for a minute or more. We will have to see what this debuff icon looks like and then use two skills we don't normally use a lot I suppose: perhaps two plants instead of regular skills to avoid this. I wonder if it can be sparked off or purified? I suppose we will have to wait for more information on how exactly it works but this sounds scary to me.


    For SB:

    1. Waxing Crescent: Wreathe your Scythe in pure moonlight, increasing the range and area of your skills by 15 meters for 8 seconds.

    -I think this could be annoying if the mystic is dischanged and trying not to move because the SB can continue to attack out of range of our skills for 8 secs. Of course, if your apoth/genie isn't on CD it's no problem, or perhaps nature's barrier/falling petals.

    2. Perilunar Call: Empowers you for 20 seconds, restoring 400 Chi.
    -Okay I only posted this out of jealously. That would be a nice skill to have...I assume the CD is long... it better be! b:angry

    3. Perigean Tide: Deals base magic damage plus 240% of weapon damage plus 9455 physical damage and reducing the target's metal and water resistance by 100% for 6 seconds.

    -So this is their other physical damage skill, sort of like a wiz's blade tempest but hitting less hard and debuffing our metal/water resist.


    What are your thoughts on these skills and how to deal with them as mystics? Out of all of them, I think the db's annular eclipse is the most threatening.
  • CapnK - SanctuaryCapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Not concerned with Waxing Crescent, it's mainly a setup for a long range nuke in mass pvp. 8 seconds is not enough to be a concern for 1v1 versus us.

    Also not worried about Perigean Tide. The damage is weak, and debuffs are worthless in the post-Primal age. Especially ones that only last six seconds.

    Perilunar Call is annoying, just like Awakening is on archers. Will be something we'll have to wait out most likely.

    Annular Eclipse could be dangerous, will have to see how it works to find out for sure.
  • xoinixxoinix Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    When I first heard about the increased CD skill from the Dusk blade I came out with a few alternatives skills that wouldn't necessarily **** you over in a 1v1 situation.

    Gaia's blessing+creeper

    Creeper+rapid (wonder if sage proc would win out over debuff though....)

    Salvation+creeper

    Gaia+Sublime if you really need heals

    Gaia already has a 1min CD anyways so thats one skill you dont need to worry about. If creeper dies in the AoE of the Dusk a few of the debuffs should of landed by then (unless you're extremely unlucky). And rapid while not having a 1min CD is worth the "sacrifice". And sublime having the 2nd longest CD of all our skills makes it the perfect tool to use if the Dusks place that nasty debuff on you.


    On the purify note if it can it would really only benefit if the debuff is not on you because I'm pretty sure that if it can be puried it would trigger the effect before it was puried. So thats a 1min cd on cleric puri and 1min CD on BiTC if it actually puries.......Or you could use blow your genie and use faith.
  • CapnK - SanctuaryCapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Had the opportunity in NW to fight both a high gear SB and a low gear (but PK savvy) DB tonight.

    SB is nothing we need to be concerned about. Was a little tankier than I expected but their skills aren't dangerous. Discharge was ticking for like 2k, not a threat.

    DB on the other hand, holy ****. This DB was a one shot to me but he would sneak up and hit me with the skill that increases cooldowns.

    First time was when I was getting ganked in a flag pit and died. I rezzed and got ready to rebuff with Verdant. Oh, it's on cooldown, must have just used it. Okay, sleep enemies, stall for a bit... uh, it's still on cooldown. Stall some more... it's still not off cooldown. And not surprisingly I died again.

    The second time he hit me with it he caught NV *and* Gale Force. I was like, okay storm dance, absorb soul, swirling mist... I'm out of attacks... uh...

    The cooldown increase is colossal. It feels much longer than a minute. Might actually add to the original cooldown, so Verdant would be 1:20 cooldown. I'll check this when I get the skill on my DB.
  • Bromeas - SanctuaryBromeas - Sanctuary Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    As having played my DB lately a lot and having analyzed almost all the skills as much as possible so far, I can tell you that yes, Annular Eclipse ADDS 1 minute of cooldown to the next 2 skills and it also is un-purify-able.

    I didn't test yet if Faith removes it, but AE also works on genie skills, so you could waste a genie skill or two if you see it coming and that's the next problem for enemies, almost instant channel/cast and 30 meter range, it was pretty easy for me in NW to throw AE into a casting enemy and increasing the cooldown of the skill they just used at that moment.

    It definitely is one of the strongest skills in my opinion and especially against enemies that spam mostly only a few skills (Mystic, Veno, Psy, Cleric) and I love it.b:laugh
    Just because I don't write on forums too often, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.
  • Zoldi - MoraiZoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    This sounds "funny"
    I'm trying to imagine how to adapt one's self in a tough battle with NV and break in the clouds both in cooldown for one minute. It would probably be even more frustrating than seal of god.
    ~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
    ~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
    ~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
    ~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
    ~ Sage Cleric 102 ~ Demon Wizard 101 ~
    ~ Sage Seeker 101 ~ Sage Psy 101 ~
    ~ Sage Heavy Veno 101 ~ Demon Storm 9X ~ Dusk 6x ~
    Started playing this game in 2007 on Oracle (PW-MY) : Demon MG 101 - Sage EP 99 - WF 89
  • Evryn - MoraiEvryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    These un-purifyable abilities are getting annoying. What's the point of having a cler around to take care of the debuffs if the strongest PvP classes (for let's face it, with the mobility and paralyze chains Dusk at endgame gear would be the strongest melee, and Storm for sheer damage is the best ranged arcane zapper) can't have their debuffs purified?

    Can we get some of those statusses on the legacy classes too maybe?

    That said, the skill CD increase should take care of the one-click-macro-spam-sins.

    @Above: You still have Absorb, Bramble Rage, Falling Petals, maybe Storm Dance too.
    I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.

    Ulsyr 103/103/104 BM. Working on the last R9 part (Axe).
    Khelvan 103/103/103 LA Cler. LA? LA. Deal with it.
    Evryn 103/102/101 Sagely Mystical Myst of Mystiness.
    Gromth 102/102/102 Sage Panda.
    StoneSnake - Snakeshop for everyone's common stones.
  • VitoryXXX - ArchosaurVitoryXXX - Archosaur Posts: 171 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    After i made DB and been playing it so far i noticed on how badly annoying it will be going up against one in NW. There is quite alot of stuns and such, which usually if lucky i think would be purified by weapon? But if that doesn't work then can easily just get stun locked and if OP gear on DB with someone who know how to play class...not gonna be fun..
    But knowing it's still a new class maybe there might be nerfing? But i wouldn't put much hopes in that since...well, welcome to pwi. I think people thankfully gave up on ''sin's are OP'' threads but now we got DB's and SB's so i guess look forward to that~
    From mystics they can copy Falling Petals skill so if you don't get stun locked and have time to fight back....unless they are one shots it will take bit more effort killing them and keep in mind that they also have stealth skill with no channel just in case things get ugly for them.
    I can see why in many way's it is an annoying as hell class in PvP.
    So if for me time changes back to old one in archo and i can be bothered waking up for nw, then i am not really looking forward going up against DB's, slightly interested to see what they do...but also don't want to -.-.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Mystic's Never Die~ Y☯utube---http://tinyurl.com/pqu55ut
    First 105-105-105 Mystic in Archosaur Server// 100-XX-XX Sage Mystic//102-102-102 Demon Assassin And 100-XX-XX Sage// 101-100-102 Sage Seeker//100-100-102 Demon Blademaster
    100-100-102 Demon Psychic
    100-100-100 Sage Cleric//100-100-101 Sage Stormbringer//100 Demon Duskblade
    And other alt's i don't play~
  • Puddinsundae - HarshlandsPuddinsundae - Harshlands Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    How is this such a heated discussion? Mystic is obviously going to have a huge advantage over Stormbringer similar to how it does vs Psychics because of the fast heals, buffed resistance to an element, and absorb soul is going to destroy them. And unlike psys, they can't increase their defense levels to stall it. Once their transform is down, they're incredibly vulnerable. Endgame mystic will be able to easily charm bypass Endgame SB after a storm leech into absorb soul with tangling mire, just like human form venos, who actually have (slightly) more hp. I'm not even that worried about their physical damage skills since not even blade tempest is a reliable bypass skill at end game against mystics even with spark and even though it deals 2x base damage. Just use windshield or something when you see it coming.

    Not even a biased point of view. I play all casters. I haven't really done much research on Duskblades so I'm not really sure how that would go, but I remember Joe predicting that they had weak damage and would be mostly a support class, but that was before release, so I'm curious how they'll turn out. Thank gawd they don't have tidal.
    As having played my DB lately a lot and having analyzed almost all the skills as much as possible so far, I can tell you that yes, Annular Eclipse ADDS 1 minute of cooldown to the next 2 skills and it also is un-purify-able.

    I didn't test yet if Faith removes it, but AE also works on genie skills, so you could waste a genie skill or two if you see it coming and that's the next problem for enemies, almost instant channel/cast and 30 meter range, it was pretty easy for me in NW to throw AE into a casting enemy and increasing the cooldown of the skill they just used at that moment.

    It definitely is one of the strongest skills in my opinion and especially against enemies that spam mostly only a few skills (Mystic, Veno, Psy, Cleric) and I love it.b:laugh

    I'm not sure how the casting of that skill would be or how easy it'd be to react to it, but at least healing herb can finally have a use now besides as an aggro scapegoat. Also Salvation will be useful in an endgame 1v1. :3
  • Zoldi - MoraiZoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Mystic is obviously going to have a huge advantage over Stormbringer similar to how it does vs Psychics because of the fast heals, buffed resistance to an element, and absorb soul is going to destroy them. And unlike psys, they can't increase their defense levels to stall it.

    You're right. I think it will be easier to kill them than psychics. Not only because of the psychics' def level but also because you will be able to use the combo NV+AS without risking to get silenced.

    One of the real good point of stormbringer is their increased mobility but I'm not sure it can really make a huge difference against a caster or archer. At least in a real fight, because they could be very annoying at crystal/flag map if they just want to hit you from time to time to prevent you from digging...




    As for the feature that increases the cooldown, I read again some comments about it and how does this work exactly ? You got debuffed, then the two next skills are the ones that will have their cooldown increased ? In this case by paying attention to the debuff icon it should be ok to deal with it I guess.
    ~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
    ~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
    ~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
    ~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
    ~ Sage Cleric 102 ~ Demon Wizard 101 ~
    ~ Sage Seeker 101 ~ Sage Psy 101 ~
    ~ Sage Heavy Veno 101 ~ Demon Storm 9X ~ Dusk 6x ~
    Started playing this game in 2007 on Oracle (PW-MY) : Demon MG 101 - Sage EP 99 - WF 89
  • VitoryXXX - ArchosaurVitoryXXX - Archosaur Posts: 171 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    If can get close to SB can just use Gale Force for a chance of immobilize if need to stop it for a bit~
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Mystic's Never Die~ Y☯utube---http://tinyurl.com/pqu55ut
    First 105-105-105 Mystic in Archosaur Server// 100-XX-XX Sage Mystic//102-102-102 Demon Assassin And 100-XX-XX Sage// 101-100-102 Sage Seeker//100-100-102 Demon Blademaster
    100-100-102 Demon Psychic
    100-100-100 Sage Cleric//100-100-101 Sage Stormbringer//100 Demon Duskblade
    And other alt's i don't play~
  • Bromeas - SanctuaryBromeas - Sanctuary Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    As for the feature that increases the cooldown, I read again some comments about it and how does this work exactly ? You got debuffed, then the two next skills are the ones that will have their cooldown increased ? In this case by paying attention to the debuff icon it should be ok to deal with it I guess.

    Well yes, you get an exclusive debuff icon and also the animation on your character is quite visible (looks like a black flowing curtain hanging around the head of your char) and it basicaly just adds 1 minute of cooldown to the next 2 skills used.

    The problem rather is, that if the DB has a good reaction and knowledge of every class, he can throw Annular Eclipse right into your channeling of a skill he wants to definitely block with it since AE only has a channel time of 0.1 seconds and also 30 meter range.

    It's pretty interesting that AE also counts for genie skills. So if you don't need your genie that badly, you could sacrifice one of its skills to get rid of AE if you notice it in time.

    Last important thing is that the debuff of AE lasts 30 seconds (if not 2 skills are used before), so just waiting it out isn't really an option either.
    Just because I don't write on forums too often, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.
  • Zoldi - MoraiZoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The problem rather is, that if the DB has a good reaction and knowledge of every class, he can throw Annular Eclipse right into your channeling of a skill he wants to definitely block with it since AE only has a channel time of 0.1 seconds and also 30 meter range.

    Really interesting ! Let's say you're about to launch Absorb Soul and he noticed the animation, if he uses AE at that time, will it work even though you pressed the button earlier ?
    ~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
    ~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
    ~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
    ~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
    ~ Sage Cleric 102 ~ Demon Wizard 101 ~
    ~ Sage Seeker 101 ~ Sage Psy 101 ~
    ~ Sage Heavy Veno 101 ~ Demon Storm 9X ~ Dusk 6x ~
    Started playing this game in 2007 on Oracle (PW-MY) : Demon MG 101 - Sage EP 99 - WF 89
  • Bromeas - SanctuaryBromeas - Sanctuary Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Really interesting ! Let's say you're about to launch Absorb Soul and he noticed the animation, if he uses AE at that time, will it work even though you pressed the button earlier ?

    Yes, if the DB uses Annular while you channel a skill, it will work on that skills cooldown.

    I'm sure you know that the cooldown starts after the channeling time of a skill is done and casting time is just the animation afterwards.

    And as far as I tested, AE doesn't check when or if a skill is started, but simply checks when the next cooldown starts (so right when channeling time is finished, also for skills with instant channel time).

    So it doesn't matter when you start channeling a skill, but when your channeling of that skill ends. Then the cooldown starts and AE simply adds 1 minute.
    Just because I don't write on forums too often, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.
  • Zoldi - MoraiZoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I'm sure you know that the cooldown starts after the channeling time of a skill is done and casting time is just the animation afterwards.

    And as far as I tested, AE doesn't check when or if a skill is started, but simply checks when the next cooldown starts (so right when channeling time is finished, also for skills with instant channel time).

    Yep but I wasn't sure how it would work for that specific thing.
    Thanks for the additionnal information about that and for telling that genie skills are taken into account as well (sounds logical now that you point it out but I didn't think about yhat at first)
    ~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
    ~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
    ~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
    ~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
    ~ Sage Cleric 102 ~ Demon Wizard 101 ~
    ~ Sage Seeker 101 ~ Sage Psy 101 ~
    ~ Sage Heavy Veno 101 ~ Demon Storm 9X ~ Dusk 6x ~
    Started playing this game in 2007 on Oracle (PW-MY) : Demon MG 101 - Sage EP 99 - WF 89
  • Puddinsundae - HarshlandsPuddinsundae - Harshlands Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Yes, if the DB uses Annular while you channel a skill, it will work on that skills cooldown.

    I'm sure you know that the cooldown starts after the channeling time of a skill is done and casting time is just the animation afterwards.

    And as far as I tested, AE doesn't check when or if a skill is started, but simply checks when the next cooldown starts (so right when channeling time is finished, also for skills with instant channel time).

    So it doesn't matter when you start channeling a skill, but when your channeling of that skill ends. Then the cooldown starts and AE simply adds 1 minute.

    Unless it's instant, it'd be pretty hard to catch a mystic during break in the cloud or nature's vengeance channels. It'd still be hard even if it were instant tbh. I could see them surprising you with it in a group situation, but you should be fine in 1v1 as long as you pay attention.
  • Bromeas - SanctuaryBromeas - Sanctuary Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Unless it's instant, it'd be pretty hard to catch a mystic during break in the cloud or nature's vengeance channels. It'd still be hard even if it were instant tbh. I could see them surprising you with it in a group situation, but you should be fine in 1v1 as long as you pay attention.

    Just quoting myself from 1 page before.
    The problem rather is, that if the DB has a good reaction and knowledge of every class, he can throw Annular Eclipse right into your channeling of a skill he wants to definitely block with it since AE only has a channel time of 0.1 seconds and also 30 meter range.

    So it is basicaly instant and you should pay attention as long as the DB didn't use it yet in 1v1, because it could come at any unexpected time.
    Just because I don't write on forums too often, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.
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