Community Challenge II: class Toad tank

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · February 2015

Hello,

Some of you may have seen or contributed to my last Community Challenge, thread here

For part II, I challenge each class of PWI to tank toad in FSP without the use of expel. This may be hard/impossible for some classes but let's see if they can prevail.

As usual the challenge completion needs to be recorded uploaded and linked here.

Good luck and don't get oneshot

Class specific tips:

Archers: Wings of Grace, careful of the 1s channel, as the oneshot is every 30 secs you can delay this very slightly by leaping away from the boss as soon as he throws an axe to ensure when he walks up to you to one shot, WoG is off cd

Assassins:

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Class specific tips for sins:
Deaden Nerves

Tidal protection

Time your sparks to the chop

If you use sparks to avoid chop, make sure you get it back again and don't use it unless you have to. Yes I know sins are in a chi swimming pool but you'd be surprised how many times people **** that up.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver · February 2015

Class specific tips for sins:

Deaden Nerves
Tidal protection
Time your sparks to the chop
If you use sparks to avoid chop, make sure you get it back again and don't use it unless you have to. Yes I know sins are in a chi swimming pool but you'd be surprised how many times people **** that up.

Barbs:

Just be a barb

Psychic:

Time your Psychic will

Mystics:

Let your pet tank?

Venomancer:

Let your pet tank?

In general advice for all classes:

(I'm stealing this one from Dark) Faith on genie
Expel on genie
or
Absolute domain on genie
If really needed ironguard apo

Just out of curiosity for psy's though, considering what dark said in another thread about the oneshot being a single tick physical damage; did anyone ever try to time soul of retaliation on it? What's the outcome of that?

p.s.: Yes I know letting pets tank will be slow, but hey, it can be done.

Eoria - Harshlands · February 2015

I have actually done this on a 9k HP tt99 aps BM after the tank died and I somehow got aggro. I don't really wish to relive the experience.

Desdi - Sanctuary · February 2015

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Venomancer:
Let your pet tank?

p.s.: Yes I know letting pets tank will be slow, but hey, it can be done.

Just to add:
The person will have to be fast with reviving/healing. The pet will have to have either Roar or be a Hercules and use Gold Armor Deity. There's a couple of other aggro skills from Moods, but I'm not sure just how strong they are. Squad should hold back their DD either way.

A Sage Venomancer should, theoretically, be able to make enough chi to triple spark every time. A Demon Venomancer would have some trouble, but with the aid of genie/pots it may be possible. Never tried it myself because my ping makes it harder to time the spark, though I do remember someone suggesting to run a bit to force the Toad to follow, but even then... not quite sure I can manage.

If Expel is not an option for this challenge, Faith and AD are the other options. As for pots, Ironguard, Sutra, Pan Gu or White Tea/God's Tea for sparks.

Aubree - Dreamweaver · February 2015

I don't think that barring the use of expel while allowing other genie skills makes it more of a challenge. Apo may be since there is a 2 min CD but with an OP squad that can be 1 or 2 max axes.

Zoldi - Morai · February 2015

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Mystics:
Let your pet tank?

Mystics' summons are not like venomancers' pets. None of them is designed to tank any boss, especially in FSP. It would already not be easy for an Hercule but endgame Chihyu would almost got OS by normal hits...

Back to the challenge, is the goal to solo Toad or to "tank" him ? I mean... with a full R9.3+10 squad, any class could "tank" with only one AD since the boss would die so fast...

As a mystic I don't see how to totally solo him for the moment, so tanking him depends totally on how fast the squad can kill him.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · February 2015

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't think that barring the use of expel while allowing other genie skills makes it more of a challenge. Apo may be since there is a 2 min CD but with an OP squad that can be 1 or 2 max axes.

The bit about the expel was mainly to prevent 3 people in squad having expel ready for the tank.

Agreed for OP squads PvE of any kind isn't a challenge, but I think this would be good for people that think you need a barb or several expels to tank toad, to generate creative ideas, and maybe help lower geared squads complete toad easier.

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

Back to the challenge, is the goal to solo Toad or to "tank" him ? I mean... with a full R9.3+10 squad, any class could "tank" with only one AD since the boss would die so fast...

As a mystic I don't see how to totally solo him for the moment, so tanking him depends totally on how fast the squad can kill him.

Toad actually regains full HP if you try to kill him too fast, happened to me a few times. The point of the challenge is to show how an average geared {insert class} could play the role of the barb at toad boss assuming they are in a squad where they can or are allowed to hold aggro. So something with like 3-4 axes or more would be be ideal. i.e. focus of this challenge is on creative use of class skills, apo and genie.

Zoldi - Morai · February 2015

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Toad actually regains full HP if you try to kill him too fast, happened to me a few times. The point of the challenge is to show how an average geared {insert class} could play the role of the barb at toad boss assuming they are in a squad where they can or are allowed to hold aggro. So something with like 3-4 axes or more would be be ideal. i.e. focus of this challenge is on creative use of class skills, apo and genie.

I did it several times with OP squads triple sparking and DDing as fast as possible and never saw him regaining HP actually.
Anyway thanks for clarifying the objectives. With those terms I don't see how a mystic could succeed and would be very glad to see one pass this test.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · February 2015

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

I did it several times with OP squads triple sparking and DDing as fast as possible and never saw him regaining HP actually.
Anyway thanks for clarifying the objectives. With those terms I don't see how a mystic could succeed and would be very glad to see one pass this test.

Squad not OP enough b:chuckle whenever I run with Kalopsia and crew we have to stop DD'ing and wait for the axe before we kill. I could be wrong on why it happens though, pretty sure it will regain HP like some kind of a deaden nerves if it gets rekt before the 2nd axe.

Yeah I think it's a pretty hard challenge. Would be impressed if certain classes manage it.

Joe - Morai · February 2015

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

I did it several times with OP squads triple sparking and DDing as fast as possible and never saw him regaining HP actually.
Anyway thanks for clarifying the objectives. With those terms I don't see how a mystic could succeed and would be very glad to see one pass this test.

Actually toad always heals up to full health when he goes below 2.5m HP before you need to throw the 2nd axe.

I always (and I mean ALWAYS) have to wait for the 2nd axe to kill him or I need to kill him 2 times over xD

Even as a Barb it would be difficult to solo toad. Not cause of the dmg. No. But axes tend to despawn when you are alone and got hit by the stun. If you don't evade it and immidiatly destroy the axe you get none (Could be a bug but was reproduceable for me).

Tanking toad is easy. Especially for Clerics in metal mode. Pious Blessing, AD, Expel, Triple Spark.

Medaka - Morai · February 2015

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Even as a Barb it would be difficult to solo toad. Not cause of the dmg. No. But axes tend to despawn when you are alone and got hit by the stun. If you don't evade it and immidiatly destroy the axe you get none (Could be a bug but was reproduceable for me).

Tanking toad is easy. Especially for Clerics in metal mode. Pious Blessing, AD, Expel, Triple Spark.

That's as easy as timing your aoe to land as soon as the axe spawns

.

If I had the ability to get a decent recording, I'd contribute

, sadly that's not going to happen. But toad is easy enough to tank on a Seeker, without expel, so I'm sure that someone else can get that done.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · February 2015

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Actually toad always heals up to full health when he goes below 2.5m HP before you need to throw the 2nd axe.

I always (and I mean ALWAYS) have to wait for the 2nd axe to kill him or I need to kill him 2 times over xD

Even as a Barb it would be difficult to solo toad. Not cause of the dmg. No. But axes tend to despawn when you are alone and got hit by the stun. If you don't evade it and immidiatly destroy the axe you get none (Could be a bug but was reproduceable for me).

Tanking toad is easy. Especially for Clerics in metal mode. Pious Blessing, AD, Expel, Triple Spark.

2.5m mark, nice thought it was somewhere around there. Thanks.

Also I think I'll do a Joe Challenge where he has to make five consecutive posts that contain nothing that could be remotely interpreted as e-peen stroking. b:chuckle jk.

Poopinpanto - Heavens Tear · February 2015

Oh another community challenge that will prob consist you wearing full r9 gear +++ to even hold agro from others...

The real challenge is in regular s3 nirv with no a cards.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · February 2015

Poopinpanto - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh another community challenge that will prob consist you wearing full r9 gear +++ to even hold agro from others...

The real challenge is in regular s3 nirv with no a cards.

Depends on the squad you go with. I did FSP yesterday and tanked toad on my sin that has full g16 with like 100 spirit.

Alice_Nyan - Dreamweaver · February 2015

Isn't hard for cleric, pious blessing has 45 sec cd. Can use pious + one other thing (spark, apo, ad, etc) and pious again ...

For veno you also have feral, but that cd is big, so probably can use just once or twice.

And btw, i once tanked with my g16 psy with a +7 weap \o/

DikkeJonko - Lothranis · February 2015

made this video just for fun a while ago :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GStRHnLmuPg

every day i go fsp with my duskblade since it needs fsp coins, but with my archer i only join a squad if they need a tank, basicly because its so much fun expirimenting with different ways to tank. as basic i tempt to leap away just before its about to make the one-hit, after this any sort of imunaty will do even faith from genie. the video is far from perfect and it was one of my first times tanking/soloing it. after this i expirimented with 2sparks, wog's. In my opinion anyone that can handle the normal damage of frog can tank it... just make sure u aps for enough chi for a 2spark every time and eventually ul kill it (with someone doing axes it is) b:laugh

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · February 2015

DikkeJonko - Lothranis wrote: »

made this video just for fun a while ago :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GStRHnLmuPg

every day i go fsp with my duskblade since it needs fsp coins, but with my archer i only join a squad if they need a tank, basicly because its so much fun expirimenting with different ways to tank. as basic i tempt to leap away just before its about to make the one-hit, after this any sort of imunaty will do even faith from genie. the video is far from perfect and it was one of my first times tanking/soloing it. after this i expirimented with 2sparks, wog's. In my opinion anyone that can handle the normal damage of frog can tank it... just make sure u aps for enough chi for a 2spark every time and eventually ul kill it (with someone doing axes it is) b:laugh

Awesome job, thanks for sharing! I'll add this to the 1st post.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · February 2015

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just to add:
The person will have to be fast with reviving/healing. The pet will have to have either Roar or be a Hercules and use Gold Armor Deity. There's a couple of other aggro skills from Moods, but I'm not sure just how strong they are. Squad should hold back their DD either way.

Primal Howl is a very strong aggro skill, possibly stronger than Gold Armor Deity, especially at higher levels. Unfortunately it doesn't work on very large bosses (like Ethereal Abomination or final Holeen) because of distance from boss centron. The other aggro mood skill (Provoking?) is a percent chance to get aggro, so unreliable, and may have the same drawback as Primal Howl.

Desdi - Sanctuary · February 2015

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Primal Howl is a very strong aggro skill, possibly stronger than Gold Armor Deity, especially at higher levels. Unfortunately it doesn't work on very large bosses (like Ethereal Abomination or final Holeen) because of distance from boss centron. The other aggro mood skill (Provoking?) is a percent chance to get aggro, so unreliable, and may have the same drawback as Primal Howl.

Sweet! Then the Supreme Walker/Flaming Crystal could be candidates for tanking if they have that mood skill. The Toad isn't that big so it should work, I think.

CapnK - Sanctuary · February 2015

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

I did it several times with OP squads triple sparking and DDing as fast as possible and never saw him regaining HP actually.
Anyway thanks for clarifying the objectives. With those terms I don't see how a mystic could succeed and would be very glad to see one pass this test.

I can tank him (not reliably) on demon mystic with a veno passing me sparks to triple spark. And the occasional pan gu or AD when I don't have chi. Sage should be easier with the faster chi buildup.

The trick is moving around. If you are in melee range, toad will throw the axe, do 1-2 normal attacks, then death axe. If you move away when he throws axe, he'll do death axe as soon as he catches up to you. So it's easy to time your sparks.

Chelestine - Heavens Tear · February 2015

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Primal Howl is a very strong aggro skill, possibly stronger than Gold Armor Deity, especially at higher levels. Unfortunately it doesn't work on very large bosses (like Ethereal Abomination or final Holeen) because of distance from boss centron. The other aggro mood skill (Provoking?) is a percent chance to get aggro, so unreliable, and may have the same drawback as Primal Howl.

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sweet! Then the Supreme Walker/Flaming Crystal could be candidates for tanking if they have that mood skill. The Toad isn't that big so it should work, I think.

My herc has level 8 provoking, which gives a 30% chance to generate aggro each hit I think, and I have to say its blooming amazing. He only needs to get one proc in + using Golden Armor Deity skill afterwards whenever possible to gain and keep aggro, especially on [?] type bosses. During a test in TT on the bosses there with my r9+12 sin friend triple sparking, my herc kept taking aggro back and retaining it 50% of the time. I personally never have to lay back on my own DD or tell anyone else to in case of my herc tanking because the provoke is so powerful and keeps procing often enough that he rarely loses aggro, not even to barbs. Of course, when it comes to taking the hits and surviving he's at a disadvantage.. xD But when it comes to keeping aggro, he's a pro

Marengo - Lost City · February 2015

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

For part II, I challenge each class of PWI to tank toad in FSP without the use of expel.

"... and no genie!.... and no apo!... and don't antistan, and don't stealth!!... and don't run like a pu**y" b:laugh

Actually it's not impossible, but if you are going to use genie anyway, why expel should be in disgrace?

Zoldi - Morai · February 2015

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Actually it's not impossible, but if you are going to use genie anyway, why expel should be in disgrace?

This is just a challenge ^^ No need to find any logic

It can be fun under those conditions I guess.

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide · February 2015

I've done it many times when i forgot to switch my pve genie (which contains AD-Belief ) To my PvP and Toad tanking Genie (which has expel ) .... Many times happened and wasn't really very hard to be done.

I been tanking toad since 2nd-3rd month FS was made in game , after u get used to it u can easily time when to Spark , and AD-DN-Apoth makes it super easy task .
Since in a good squad u barely need 3 axes and done , I don't see much challenge in this .
+No time and can't bother to make a video .b:cute

Sirkura - Raging Tide · February 2015

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just to add:
The person will have to be fast with reviving/healing. The pet will have to have either Roar or be a Hercules and use Gold Armor Deity. There's a couple of other aggro skills from Moods, but I'm not sure just how strong they are. Squad should hold back their DD either way.

A Sage Venomancer should, theoretically, be able to make enough chi to triple spark every time. A Demon Venomancer would have some trouble, but with the aid of genie/pots it may be possible. Never tried it myself because my ping makes it harder to time the spark, though I do remember someone suggesting to run a bit to force the Toad to follow, but even then... not quite sure I can manage.

If Expel is not an option for this challenge, Faith and AD are the other options. As for pots, Ironguard, Sutra, Pan Gu or White Tea/God's Tea for sparks.

actually chi wise i think demon veno's may have an easier time getting chi, being one myself. we have demon crush wich gives us 1 spark 50% chance, demon lending hand has a chance to give 2 sparks and only cost one for another spark, + cloud eruption on genie for yet another spark.

Desdi - Sanctuary · February 2015

Sirkura - Raging Tide wrote: »

actually chi wise i think demon veno's may have an easier time getting chi, being one myself. we have demon crush wich gives us 1 spark 50% chance, demon lending hand has a chance to give 2 sparks and only cost one for another spark, + cloud eruption on genie for yet another spark.

The thing is that Sage's Fox Form swapping is guaranteed to offer chi, Lending Hand has a higher chance to proc and give a spark (5% only, but it does make a slight difference) and since they are DDing, if they spam Venomous Scarab it will proc at least a few times and give them 40 chi (30 from the skill bonus + 10 from the skill itself). Then there's also Master Li's technique, although it has a cooldown of one minute.

On the other hand Crush Vigor is only 50% chance (with 30sec cd). If it's a good day, you might have more chi than you know what to make of it, but if it's a bad day it will barely proc. Lending Hand has a 5% lower chance to proc compared to Sage. We do have Grudge Strike/Dark Taboo, and rotating through Lucky/Blazing/Noxious for chi building (unless someone fused skills and got Redstone), but it may or may not be enough. Genie is available, but there may be times when you need it for Faith/AD/Expel instead for various reasons, and I'd probably save my apoth for the "oh ****! need IG/Sutra" moment.

Not saying it's not possible, but I find a Sage body tanking to be more reliable, overall, than a Demon. Now if the squad has a second Venomancer to pass chi... that's a whole lot different story.

Satyrion - Sanctuary · February 2015

Switching a lot between fox form and human form means less damage thus higher chance to loose aggro as well.

Desdi - Sanctuary · February 2015

Well, honestly the squad will most likely have to hold their DD back either way because certain classes/gear can even steal aggro off Barbarians so it kind of depends on the overall squad, unless you're with just a couple of players.
And it's not like I said the person will be just swapping forms to build chi XD

eirghan · February 2015

This is a bump for this thread for those in my squad who joined without knowing about the challenge.

Sanctuary Full Seeker Fiasco Squad managed to do the run in less than 45 minutes with a less than full squad (as our last member dropped for some reason)

We aimed to do challenge one but ended up doing challenge two by accident.

Overall it was a great run and a really fun idea. Thanks all.

Will be posting the video later this afternoon! b:dirty

Evryn - Morai · February 2015

BM should be easy enough if you time it properly:
1 Primal River Avalance to force aggro onto yourself
2 Triple spark to be immune when axeforce hits. Same to self-purify.
3 APS fist to rebuild chi fast. Does **** damage, but you're not interested in damage as a tank.
4 Goto 1.

Could probably do this on my own BM if I knew the axe slam timings.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver · February 2015

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

BM should be easy enough if you time it properly:
1 Primal River Avalance to force aggro onto yourself
2 Triple spark to be immune when axeforce hits. Same to self-purify.
3 APS fist to rebuild chi fast. Does **** damage, but you're not interested in damage as a tank.
4 Goto 1.

Could probably do this on my own BM if I knew the axe slam timings.

And then he uses a stun randomly on the entire squad, just before a chop or throwing an axe.
What do you do?

Community Challenge II: class Toad tank

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