A Brief Look...
shadowtwili
Posts: 0 Arc User
So it was only recently that I ventured over here to the forums, having been an avid lurker of sorts for years since I first started playing this game. And during my time here, I've noticed something of a recurring problem that so few are willing to address. Some have noticed, but they for the most part will stay silent about it.
Perhaps its time to change that..
Wether this changes anything at all though? That's still up for discussion I suppose...
So as I look around the forum postings, I've noticed a sort of recurring trend of complaints regarding the degradation of the game as a whole. For the most part, I'm inclined to agree that from the time I started playing some years ago to now, a lot has definantly changed. But for the most part it has remained true to its original form and function the game was designed for.
That said, I have noticed the decline in the game as a whole and no one really knows why that is. But why though? What caused it to slowly but surely go down hill? What caused the GMs to become nothing more than a myth uttered on WC? Who's to blame for the degradation of such a lovely made game?
The answer should be fairly obvious if you haven't already guessed it by now.
The fault lied in many players of the game itself.
Why the players? Well why not? Who else could be responsible for it?
One simply has to look at the sheer volume of World Chat nonsense going on to understand why so many have abandoned this game. Why even the GMs left this game should be obvious in itself if one considers how much has been allowed on World Chat alone.
Sure it may just be words on a screen in an otherwise open and public domain. But many forget how powerful words can be and what effect that can have on others.
If you've read this far and felt all I did was insult you? Then your clearly part of the problem.
But if you read this far and felt maybe there is even a grain of truth to these words then that's enough.
I am not normally an avid speaker on forums, and I probably won't be again for any length of time. I just felt something needed to be said. How one chooses to interpret these words is entirely there choice.
If you think i'm wrong, that's fine. If you feel i'm right...thats fine too. It really makes no difference what one may think of me. This is just my interpretation of things as i've seen them.
Thank you for your time.
PS: World Chat is just one part of the problem....those who have paid attention know exactly what I'm referring to already.
Perhaps its time to change that..
Wether this changes anything at all though? That's still up for discussion I suppose...
So as I look around the forum postings, I've noticed a sort of recurring trend of complaints regarding the degradation of the game as a whole. For the most part, I'm inclined to agree that from the time I started playing some years ago to now, a lot has definantly changed. But for the most part it has remained true to its original form and function the game was designed for.
That said, I have noticed the decline in the game as a whole and no one really knows why that is. But why though? What caused it to slowly but surely go down hill? What caused the GMs to become nothing more than a myth uttered on WC? Who's to blame for the degradation of such a lovely made game?
The answer should be fairly obvious if you haven't already guessed it by now.
The fault lied in many players of the game itself.
Why the players? Well why not? Who else could be responsible for it?
One simply has to look at the sheer volume of World Chat nonsense going on to understand why so many have abandoned this game. Why even the GMs left this game should be obvious in itself if one considers how much has been allowed on World Chat alone.
Sure it may just be words on a screen in an otherwise open and public domain. But many forget how powerful words can be and what effect that can have on others.
If you've read this far and felt all I did was insult you? Then your clearly part of the problem.
But if you read this far and felt maybe there is even a grain of truth to these words then that's enough.
I am not normally an avid speaker on forums, and I probably won't be again for any length of time. I just felt something needed to be said. How one chooses to interpret these words is entirely there choice.
If you think i'm wrong, that's fine. If you feel i'm right...thats fine too. It really makes no difference what one may think of me. This is just my interpretation of things as i've seen them.
Thank you for your time.
PS: World Chat is just one part of the problem....those who have paid attention know exactly what I'm referring to already.
Post edited by shadowtwili on
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Comments
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Your argument is flawed.
GM's are supposed to be there also to monitor world chat among other things, since they don't do that (for years now) it's free game. That was the solution to your problem, but the solution is gone for years.
You blame the players for GM's leaving?
GM's didn't leave PWI because they don't like the game or the players, PWE as a company has ****ty management with these sort of things. It's not much of a GM's choice.
GM's used to host events, which the player base enjoyed. Which very rarely happens anymore.
Sure, players can behave like rolemodels, but what's a game like without the good, the bad and the ugly?
The responsibility of world chat is not at the hands of the players, it's at the hand of the GM's. And the GM's are at the hand of PWE, and it's PWE who doesn't give a rat's ***.
Also, the decline of players is also due to:
1. **** bugs
2. lack of (customer) support
3. **** server outages at timesSoon™
Well, maybe later, semi-retired.0 -
DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »Your argument is flawed.
GM's are supposed to be there also to monitor world chat among other things, since they don't do that (for years now) it's free game. That was the solution to your problem, but the solution is gone for years.
You blame the players for GM's leaving?
GM's didn't leave PWI because they don't like the game or the players, PWE as a company has ****ty management with these sort of things. It's not much of a GM's choice.
GM's used to host events, which the player base enjoyed. Which very rarely happens anymore.
Sure, players can behave like rolemodels, but what's a game like without the good, the bad and the ugly?
The responsibility of world chat is not at the hands of the players, it's at the hand of the GM's. And the GM's are at the hand of PWE, and it's PWE who doesn't give a rat's ***.
Also, the decline of players is also due to:
1. **** bugs
2. lack of (customer) support
3. **** server outages at times
Very well said. The degredation of the game is very much a dev and GM problem. I mean, just from looking through forums you can see that there are many people disatisfied with the way GMs respond to and handle tickets and overall how long the devs take to fix any kind of problem in game. Of course the real problem is that we are at the mercy of china sending us updates since clearly our devs can't do much. The lack of GM response on forums and the lack of their presence in the game is a huge hinderance to players. I mean hell, the GMs and sparkiesoft OUTRIGHT ignore issues they very much shouldn't like the DQ system..the fact that no one has gotten TW rewards from last season, and other serious problems. Their obvious lack of responses or even assurances in forums is so blatant it is disheartening to anyone that reads or follows forums. OP is clealry biased to some degree or another towards the people that run the game...maybe he is a previous or current employee....but he is wasting his time trying to point the finger of blame on the gamers for ruining the game. If the GMs did their job....his argument as you said would be out the window.
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DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »q
The responsibility of world chat is not at the hands of the players, it's at the hand of the GM's. And the GM's are at the hand of PWE, and it's PWE who doesn't give a rat's ***.
^THIS. Lets say A GM or twelve DID leave because they thought the players were jerks, trolls, whatever. We have a game with no GMs. Whose job is it to get replacements. The customer base? Should we hire more mods? More support staff? If we did how would we give them the GM rights? Access to the customer support email? Mod rights in the forums?
I think were missing a big part of the picture in OPs post.
b:surrender
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^THIS. Lets say A GM or twelve DID leave because they thought the players were jerks, trolls, whatever. We have a game with no GMs. Whose job is it to get replacements. The customer base? Should we hire more mods? More support staff? If we did how would we give them the GM rights? Access to the customer support email? Mod rights in the forums?
I think were missing a big part of the picture in OPs post.
b:surrender
I love how people can type so intelligently but be so flawed in their logic or statements. This is probably the most biased un though out post i have seen recently other then that one guy that posts his constant love for PWE and staff...kissing their butt with love that is totally unfounded.0 -
There aren't GMs because of the players?
wow. So if something goes wrong in the world chat, the solution would be GMs leaving? That doesn't make sense to me at all! Why not monitor the world chat, and control the situation to the best to one's abilities? I don't expect miracles or to never have an issue, but even the presense of a GM I feel that it would be comforting to many players. Plus I think that some players would be more cautious if they knew that there is control and that there might be consequenses. If they think that everything is allowed, why behave?
I'm not placing the blame on GMs at all! I'm grateful for their work. I'm just saying that placing the blame on players for GMs appearance or not, isn't fair or accurate in my opinion.
No one is perfect players included. But placing all the blame on players, especially concerning GMs is totally unrelated.
About the game degrading, that depends on the person's view I guess. I still have fun and I still enjoy the game, so I don't feel that way. But I haven't played since the beginning of the game, so there are probably things that I do not know and might have changed since then.
There are problems, some are very serious too, that aren't caused by the players (this is a reference to the game degrading). For example toons and equipment disappearing. I'm sure it didn't happen on purpose, and they do work on it (some even are back to normal thank goodness), but I do understand and feel the players' disappointment and frustration! I am only mentioning this to try to give an example of a player's bad experience on the game that isn't a fault of his own. Cause the original post gave me the feeling that all things gone wrong in the game are the players' fault.
While I can understand that some things are a player's fault, like exploits, trying to trick the support system e.t.c., I fail to see how a GM's presense is a player's fault.0 -
Why do people make this sound like they were Utopian events? These events, while fun, were also seemingly a green light for people to attack the hosting GM's. In world and common chats, people flying rants into GM's, insulting and name calling them, about matters that are clearly out of GM control. Imagine you host an event for people and half the attending people call you lazy and stupid and bash you for decisions you had nothing to do with.DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »
GM's used to host events, which the player base enjoyed. Which very rarely happens anymore.
Yeah, the events were fun, but also seem to be held by some people as some perfect dream world where PWE staff and playerbase were hand in hand, frolicking the fields of PanGu.0 -
Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »Why do people make this sound like they were Utopian events? These events, while fun, were also seemingly a green light for people to attack the hosting GM's. In world and common chats, people flying rants into GM's, insulting and name calling them, about matters that are clearly out of GM control. Imagine you host an event for people and half the attending people call you lazy and stupid and bash you for decisions you had nothing to do with.
Yeah, the events were fun, but also seem to be held by some people as some perfect dream world where PWE staff and playerbase were hand in hand, frolicking the fields of PanGu.
I see. I never thought of it this way. I've never interacted with a GM and I've never seen an event like that, so I didn't know that they were calling them names. That's not nice, I'm so sorry for that!
I understand what you mean. I don't care much about the events. I don't want anyone to be rude to others, players to GMs, or GMs to players. I guess I was naive in my previous post.0 -
Anyone who has been here awhile can see the decline in almost everything...I've been here since 08 with a 2 year break in 2012, and the customer support, even the news(the whole thing with first time buyers gifts) and everything since has declined.
Everything feels half hearted now. I know it's not the GM's fault, it comes from the people who make the decisions in the company. We don't even get in game events anymore. Everything is a forum event. Before we had the Valentines event to get the belt even the event on Friday where the bosses spawned outside Archosaur.
This all effects the community. We can tell they don't care as much. We can't even get weekly codes anymore because the people on top feel like we got too much already. That's probably the same reason DQ rewards aren't coming back. They(the people on top) seem to not want to give us anything we haven't paid for. So it changes how people play and how they respect the workers that we interact with. Some people adjust and say that's how it is now while others get angry on the forums.0 -
GMs are not leaving because of player attitude. We have just as many GMs around as we always did, but there is one major problem - PWE has over time accumulated a number of other games, and what used to be the GMs for this game are now GMs for EVERY game. Their time and patience is no doubt stretched thin from having to do so much.
PWE needs to have dedicated GMs and CMs for each game.
Also, when the game first began its downward spiral it had nothing to do with the players. The problem with most player attitudes directly stems from continually seeing poor decisions and bad changes made, leaving even the most dedicated veterans like myself quite cynical and expecting nothing but disappointment with each new patch.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »Why do people make this sound like they were Utopian events? These events, while fun, were also seemingly a green light for people to attack the hosting GM's. In world and common chats, people flying rants into GM's, insulting and name calling them, about matters that are clearly out of GM control. Imagine you host an event for people and half the attending people call you lazy and stupid and bash you for decisions you had nothing to do with.
Yeah, the events were fun, but also seem to be held by some people as some perfect dream world where PWE staff and playerbase were hand in hand, frolicking the fields of PanGu.
Got to think of it this way too.
GM's hosted events, when we had 12 GM's supporting one game with at most, 500k players.
Currently, there are 25 support staff, supporting 18-ish titles, each with several million players.
I'll let you do the math on that one....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
GMs were supposed to monitor World Chat once upon a time.shadowtwili wrote: »So it was only recently that I ventured over here to the forums, having been an avid lurker of sorts for years since I first started playing this game. And during my time here, I've noticed something of a recurring problem that so few are willing to address. Some have noticed, but they for the most part will stay silent about it.
Perhaps its time to change that..
Wether this changes anything at all though? That's still up for discussion I suppose...
So as I look around the forum postings, I've noticed a sort of recurring trend of complaints regarding the degradation of the game as a whole. For the most part, I'm inclined to agree that from the time I started playing some years ago to now, a lot has definantly changed. But for the most part it has remained true to its original form and function the game was designed for.
That said, I have noticed the decline in the game as a whole and no one really knows why that is. But why though? What caused it to slowly but surely go down hill? What caused the GMs to become nothing more than a myth uttered on WC? Who's to blame for the degradation of such a lovely made game?
The answer should be fairly obvious if you haven't already guessed it by now.
The fault lied in many players of the game itself.
Why the players? Well why not? Who else could be responsible for it?
One simply has to look at the sheer volume of World Chat nonsense going on to understand why so many have abandoned this game. Why even the GMs left this game should be obvious in itself if one considers how much has been allowed on World Chat alone.
Sure it may just be words on a screen in an otherwise open and public domain. But many forget how powerful words can be and what effect that can have on others.
If you've read this far and felt all I did was insult you? Then your clearly part of the problem.
But if you read this far and felt maybe there is even a grain of truth to these words then that's enough.
I am not normally an avid speaker on forums, and I probably won't be again for any length of time. I just felt something needed to be said. How one chooses to interpret these words is entirely there choice.
If you think i'm wrong, that's fine. If you feel i'm right...thats fine too. It really makes no difference what one may think of me. This is just my interpretation of things as i've seen them.
Thank you for your time.
PS: World Chat is just one part of the problem....those who have paid attention know exactly what I'm referring to already.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Oh, I know. And I'm not saying either way what had to do with the decline in the amount of GM's.SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »Got to think of it this way too.
GM's hosted events, when we had 12 GM's supporting one game with at most, 500k players.
Currently, there are 25 support staff, supporting 18-ish titles, each with several million players.
I'll let you do the math on that one....
Clearly there's poor decisions being made and cutbacks in staff and support is a problem.
I'm not saying the GM decline had to do with the abuse they took during those events, but it still remains that they did take a lot of abuse, most of which was hatred directed at them for things they have no control over whatsoever and were not the holding hands, singing Kumbaya events people seem to want to remember them as.
I get people want to vent and have their say heard about PWE's shortcomings, but insulting and lashing out at a GM is the same as having a major problem with WalMarts corporate policy, but yelling at and taking it out on the cashier. Even now, you get people in WC ranting for GM's to fix their lag and fix this and that or this is fail and that is fail.
I don't agree with the OP that the playerbase is the sole reason there's no support/GM's, but I do think its a very unforgiving job and would play a small factor in the in-game presence. Would you want to pop into an area where you know a good portion of the people there are wanting to bash and get their digs in at you?0 -
SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »Got to think of it this way too.
GM's hosted events, when we had 12 GM's supporting one game with at most, 500k players.
Currently, there are 25 support staff, supporting 18-ish titles, each with several million players.
I'll let you do the math on that one....
The real blame lies with PWE....not investing enough money into proper staff to supply the games with enough GMs to go around and actually do their job regularly. As for the math....don't get too expectant of people here to be able to do it. Also....why are people talking about GMs LEAVING.....like what are u guys ranting on about...GMs didnt really leave....they just don't care anymore and there just are not enough to go around like Sylen here said.0 -
zoner112012 wrote: »I love how people can type so intelligently but be so flawed in their logic or statements. This is probably the most biased un though out post i have seen recently other then that one guy that posts his constant love for PWE and staff...kissing their butt with love that is totally unfounded.
If you are indeed saying this in response to my post and not the OP's I'd have to say I love how people can respond to other people's posts, call them biased, suggest they are stupid, have no logic, and say that their statements are wrong, but provide no evidence or support for their statements and provide no alternative.b:chuckle
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This is a good point, but again, missing the bigger picture. Why are the GM's being harassed? Because of the lack of support. Why is there a lack of support? PWE.
Again, not the fault of the player base. Hundreds of people submit requests for issues that are mishandled or ignored. Not the GM's problem, no. And having no GM's causes bigger problems. But customers did not cause there to be a lack of support.
PWE being cheap > Short staffed > Lack of support > Angry customers > Lash at the only people present to listen
And in this case we dont even have GM's so customers are lashing out at other customers now b:shutup LOL
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All I read was "Blah blah blah, world chat killed the game and the GM's, blah blah blah." b:laugh
I'll take a second read later.0 -
Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »Oh, I know. And I'm not saying either way what had to do with the decline in the amount of GM's.
Clearly there's poor decisions being made and cutbacks in staff and support is a problem.
I'm not saying the GM decline had to do with the abuse they took during those events, but it still remains that they did take a lot of abuse, most of which was hatred directed at them for things they have no control over whatsoever and were not the holding hands, singing Kumbaya events people seem to want to remember them as.
I get people want to vent and have their say heard about PWE's shortcomings, but insulting and lashing out at a GM is the same as having a major problem with WalMarts corporate policy, but yelling at and taking it out on the cashier. Even now, you get people in WC ranting for GM's to fix their lag and fix this and that or this is fail and that is fail.
I don't agree with the OP that the playerbase is the sole reason there's no support/GM's, but I do think its a very unforgiving job and would play a small factor in the in-game presence. Would you want to pop into an area where you know a good portion of the people there are wanting to bash and get their digs in at you?
Main event I remember GMs being mocked over, was the murder the GM event. And to be fair, that was horribly planned out and implemented. Seriously, GM capes being worn and mandatory PK mode? I understand why the low level melees hated it, because it was impossible for them to do anything after all the hype. And the GM seemed to be a trolling ****, because he'd run around to the ranged that stayed out of AoE Armageddon to get them nuked off. It's not like he was taking damage, so no need to run around. He was abusing the event for his own amusement. I still found it funny as hell, but I was a ranged and left once it was obvious there was no point. I heard they eventually took off their god mode cape, but it was stupid trolling.
The bunny invasion event they had afterwards, now that was well done and something the players enjoyed. Some low levels complained it was too hard, but there were lower level areas they could have been in. So that was more on them. But while the rewards weren't amazing, the whole concept and implementation was fun. Though not sure how much the GMs liked the comments of, "this is what the last event should have been like." But the first event was the GMs fault, at least on our server.0 -
Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »All I read was "Blah blah blah, world chat killed the game and the GM's, blah blah blah." b:laugh
I'll take a second read later.
b:sad Don't bother I think that about covers it.
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I'm not talking about specific events for bashing. Any time a GM appears. Maybe DW is overly aggressive with their negativity, but it wouldn't matter what event or even just an appearance would spark the bashing.Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »Main event I remember GMs being mocked over, was the murder the GM event. And to be fair, that was horribly planned out and implemented. Seriously, GM capes being worn and mandatory PK mode? I understand why the low level melees hated it, because it was impossible for them to do anything after all the hype. And the GM seemed to be a trolling ****, because he'd run around to the ranged that stayed out of AoE Armageddon to get them nuked off. It's not like he was taking damage, so no need to run around. He was abusing the event for his own amusement. I still found it funny as hell, but I was a ranged and left once it was obvious there was no point. I heard they eventually took off their god mode cape, but it was stupid trolling.
The bunny invasion event they had afterwards, now that was well done and something the players enjoyed. Some low levels complained it was too hard, but there were lower level areas they could have been in. So that was more on them. But while the rewards weren't amazing, the whole concept and implementation was fun. Though not sure how much the GMs liked the comments of, "this is what the last event should have been like." But the first event was the GMs fault, at least on our server.
We had one appear outside west gate randomly (a very long time ago now) and spawn giant dinosaur mobs and was just fooling around having fun. But of course once word got out he was there, out come the trolls who had to get their digs in about everything from pack rates to lag to sales to whatever else they could rant at him about. I found it really frustrating as a player. We were having fun with this GM spawning cool mobs and having fun, until the chat filled with the bashing.
This is what I mean, who wants to show up to have some fun when all thats gonna happen is you end up getting bashed and a chat full of gripes that have nothing to do with you, but directed at you.0 -
If you are indeed saying this in response to my post and not the OP's I'd have to say I love how people can respond to other people's posts, call them biased, suggest they are stupid, have no logic, and say that their statements are wrong, but provide no evidence or support for their statements and provide no alternative.b:chuckle
I was responding to your post but speaking of OPs post. Don't (***)(u)(me) things.0 -
Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »I'm not talking about specific events for bashing. Any time a GM appears. Maybe DW is overly aggressive with their negativity, but it wouldn't matter what event or even just an appearance would spark the bashing.
We had one appear outside west gate randomly (a very long time ago now) and spawn giant dinosaur mobs and was just fooling around having fun. But of course once word got out he was there, out come the trolls who had to get their digs in about everything from pack rates to lag to sales to whatever else they could rant at him about. I found it really frustrating as a player. We were having fun with this GM spawning cool mobs and having fun, until the chat filled with the bashing.
This is what I mean, who wants to show up to have some fun when all thats gonna happen is you end up getting bashed and a chat full of gripes that have nothing to do with you, but directed at you.
Yeah, sounds like it might have been a server issue. And likely due to the fact DW opened up later, and was much more affected in its playerbase growth by packs. HT, LC, and Sanc all had about a year to get through, and on Sanc GMs wouldn't really be harassed. We'd stop by to take screenies with them, joke with them as they made funny messages in system chat.
Sometimes we had jerks who wanted to give them ****, but pretty much everyone else in the server would shout the worthless people down in WC pretty quickly. Too many children thinking they were special, so we'd village raise them into their actual worth.0 -
zoner112012 wrote: »I was responding to your post but speaking of OPs post. Don't (***)(u)(me) things.
Ahh well at least i was able to provide some sort of back up for my belief instead of just outright flaming people. Nothing like a baseless response to make my day complete. Thanks again!
Troll on!
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Personally I just log in and play the game. If something breaks I wait until its fixed such as instances, or map crashes. During weekly maintenance I sleep or do something else, regardless of how long maintenance or server restarted take. Servers crash, same thing, I do something else.
My stormbringer is level 97 now. Lack of end game weapons/r9rr molds and level 11 skills, I don't care about. I will upgrade when they are implemented.
World chat morons get out of control, I turn off worldchat. The major violators I blacklist.
I can't complain about ticket support as I have only sent in a few tickets over the years and each one was taken care of within a half a day to a week which is fine.
Life has too many stresses to worry about insignificant issues in a game. I play to get away from life's stresses. I don't care about coin drops, DQ redo not being implemented, DQ being one coin, earning time, etc. They are all trivial in the overall scope of things.
Now major issues like characters disappearing, items swapped on other characters due to crashes, sure, those are major in game issues and should be addressed, but I'm not going to send in a ticket for every minescule problem.
Even rollbacks aren't something to cry over if it fixes a major problem. In twenty years of playing MMOs, all have had their fair share of big problems. It's the nature of online gaming.
As I said, I just log in and play. As long as I'm enjoying it then I'm happy.Malice Leader - Raging Tides
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If i were a gm anyone who bished at me would get an hour to be a puffbird
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