when will it happen sins. pvp

socean#3691
socean#3691 Posts: 68 Arc User
edited January 2015 in Arigora Colosseum
Ok I have officially had enough of sins. They are still the most op thing in pwi and it has not changed ever. Seriously I'm going to mention their ability to lock as they can almost Perma lock. I would definitely like an explanation on why sins can Perma lock when they have damage as extreme as they do.

My experiences:
Deity end game sin 1shot end game josd psychic. Though the psychic was in black voodoo he was still josd and being 1shot by skills such as eliminate with end game gear is ridiculous.

Josd end game sin solos 3 end game r999 players. Max damage hit on said sin was 2.4k. This sin is one of the most impossible sins to kill


How sins are OP?
Sins have outstanding defence. How the heck is this fair? End game sins are not squishy this toppled with tidal makes them nearly impossible to kill.

Locking?... why? Why can sins lock. Typically when a class has lots of locking skills it's because they don't have as much dmg as other classes.... Wtf sins have more damage than any other class why can they lock? BMs have much locking, but that's because their damage is not that high. Sins can lock and deal 8x the damage of a bm.

Multi hit skills are trash. They give sins the ability to apps bypassing charms and still keep on their atk lvl buff. Their is officially no tradeoff for the atk lvl buff. Spammable lifehunter is just plain stupid. Sins could not be easier to play with.

Unlimited chi... yes wtf give a sin the ability to spark as many times as they want dealing uber damage. They easily replenish these sparks.

Sins can freaking heal uberly. Wtf if their is a low geared anywhere around in pvp they can just have bloodpaint on and dagger throw to completely restore their hp. What the heck can't this class do?

Lets see along with being extremely tanky, unlimited chi, having a buff that blocks all debuffs, doing the most extreme damage, having multi hit skills, having an almost 100% crit rate (what's the points of having crits if every hit is a crit it's basically just their normal damage), and having the ability to zerk... they also can stealth with 3 skills. 2 of which can be used while they are being attacked. This creates for one of the most survivable classes and heaviest damage dealing classes.

Sins ruin any good pvp. Alot of people quit because no matter how much they gear up a sin of equal and alot of times lower gear will be able to 1shot them.

Solution:
How about casters get a 40% sin damage reduction buff? End game sin vs end game caster is unfair sins will easily beat 95% of casters. I see it all the time. I understand sins need enough damage to be able to kill classes such as barbs with physical damage, but seriously in doing that casters suffer. In giving sins the damage to kill end game barbs solo, casters don't come anywhere near the defence of barbs yet sins still retain the damage to kill barbs against casters.
-casters need some sort of damage reduction against this hax class.

I've seen to many endgame people getting 1shot by sins or under 4 shot by sins. Anybody that claims this class isn't op is ignorant of the fscts.
Post edited by socean#3691 on
«13

Comments

  • Keisari - Raging Tide
    Keisari - Raging Tide Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Complaining about stunlocks...you haven't seen a good duskblade in action.

    Complaining about high damage sins do suggesting a damage red. buff...roll a stormbringer.

    Inb4Kossyuseshisrealityalteringpowerztomovethisdread2PVP-Ponderings.

    +1 Post count.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Kittysama - Raging Tide in APS-barb disguise, when avatars were bugged. Now posting again as Kittysama.
    Deleted old mains on Feb. 2014, back with every viable build covered, majority of them at or above non-rb 100.b:cute
    The Greatest APS-Panda on RT! 'Cause there's too much food in tables of Imperial palace.b:surrender
    Kitty's current average lvl ~94 b:shocked
  • valrain2
    valrain2 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I've seen a single sin take down a well geared barb. Sins are amazing and extremely OP. There's nothing we can do about it, so either roll a sin yourself or find some way to have fun. PWI doesn't give a **** about balance, fairness, or common sense. It's been this way for 4 years. Accept it or quit. Those are our only options unfortunately.
  • socean#3691
    socean#3691 Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Complaining about stunlocks...you haven't seen a good duskblade in action.

    Complaining about high damage sins do suggesting a damage red. buff...roll a stormbringer.

    Inb4Kossyuseshisrealityalteringpowerztomovethisdread2PVP-Ponderings.

    +1 Post count.

    Duskblade have good stunlocks, but they are more on term with bm u ****. As I said it is the damage of sins combined with their ability to stunlock and the many other advantages they have that make them op. Duskblade are weak to me I don't see them being a threat anywhere near as huge as sins even at end game.

    Stormbringer are a joke. Yes their damage reduction buff is nice, but that is like having fox form or earth shield. They do not have those. Reaper form is short term and is not constant. They are very squishy and their damage is also nothing comparable to that of a sin.

    Sins will remain the most op of the classes as usual. The new classes are a joke to me really.
    valrain2 wrote: »
    I've seen a single sin take down a well geared barb. Sins are amazing and extremely OP. There's nothing we can do about it, so either roll a sin yourself or find some way to have fun. PWI doesn't give a **** about balance, fairness, or common sense. It's been this way for 4 years. Accept it or quit. Those are our only options unfortunately.

    Yea, but I'm tired of seeing people quit because sins ruin all the fun. Their's this sin on my server that always calls for pvp like he's good. He's a deity end game sin... 1 shots everyone I don't see how that is fun. Of course their's nobody that can compete with that.
  • valrain2
    valrain2 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Welcome to PWI. Wait for EQ2 to come out.

    PWI is a cash cow, so they cater to the paying customers. Everyone else needs to accept it.

    PvP is not the only thing this game has to offer. PvP is **** in this game because every PWE game has always been 100% pay to win. Every game out of China is this way. You need an American or South Korean game developer to make a game that makes sense.
  • Sirkura - Raging Tide
    Sirkura - Raging Tide Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    lol.... my roomate is an r9rr seeker not even high refines and she regurly one shots sins. ofc diety and JoSD are gonna make them tanky they do the same on any class. ever fought a JoSD wizzy with stone barrier? >.> unless you have a way to purge it your not taking them down. combine purify weapon on top, now they can't be debuffed or stunned for x amount of time and just rebuff themselves.

    you have seekers in JoSD with 170-200+ defense lvls (i've seen as high as 209) wich also gives them attack lvls with there attack debuff.

    JoSD veno in fox form. not nearly as tanky as wizzy or seeker but still may be hard at times to bypass a charm.

    ANY class with diety stone = 1 shot kill most the time.. for them and you.


    further then just shards there is spirit.which adds far more defense and attack then those shards do. you have primal passives further increasing attack and defense. even on my veno, i can typically reflect and a sin 2-3 shots itself. learn to deal with it. try irongaurd, they can't stun or hurt you for 12 seconds. dins are squishy. they have a high damage output but you need to look at a few things as well before saying they are OP.

    the JoSD sin. what was his spirit? rebirth? non rebirth?

    3 R9rr players. same thing: spirit, rebirth? what shards and refines did they have? from what you said here:

    "Josd end game sin solos 3 end game r999 players. Max damage hit on said sin was 2.4k. This sin is one of the most impossible sins to kill"

    i'm guessing they were not equally geared. r9rr is not actually that strong by itself. its when people spend more sinking expensive shards and refines into it that it becomes op. so i conclude r9rr sin JoSD +12 vs probably lower end r9rr (+5-10 with maybe vit stones tops?)
  • Father_gold - Sanctuary
    Father_gold - Sanctuary Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    dont forget the cards..... rb2 S cards are not to be trifled with.
  • odieuxconnard
    odieuxconnard Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    OMG , a sins-are-too-OP QQ thread again...



    => go there and populate previous hater threads instead of doing a new one again and again:
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1700771
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1726431
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1728441
  • DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This thread again! Just in time for my morning coffee.

    Hi, welcome to PWI, take a seat, have a drink and something to eat and enjoy the wild ride of sins are too OP.

    The reason?

    1. China doesn't have this problem, as they don't have massive amount of R9rr cashers
    2. China doesn't give 2 flying ****s about our version and just give us what they have and some stuff to fill PWE's wallet in the mean time (like cashshop R9rr easy modo)

    Outstanding defenses? The only "valid" point in there you are making is the ever so grinded MUH TIDAL point. Every class has outstanding defenses, hello primal passives? Name a class that doesn't have outstanding defenses, please.
    Soon™
    Well, maybe later, semi-retired.
  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I totally agree with the OP, but then again, if sins didn't have at least one of the features the OP mentioned, they would be uber trash.

    I don't know how to feel about sins atm cause right now they all have a hard time killing me. I find it extremely easy to run away from their triple sparked attacks. Maybe it's cause they are bad, or maybe cause all my guildies are op, but lately I don't feel so threated by sins.

    I think sins will keep being the most annoying class to deal with. Even though one of the new classes has a lot of stuns, paralyzes, and all that, I don't think they will be as tanky or sneaky as sins. Sins have tidal, the new class doesn't, so it will be easy to purge their buffs (at least the purgeables), and to stun them. Also, all the stuns they have aren't so long as a bm's or a sins, so a genie will be able to break their combo.

    JoSD veno in fox form. not nearly as tanky as wizzy or seeker but still may be hard at times to bypass a charm.

    Veno is fox form is more tanky than wizard, and a seeker is only more tanky cause of their defense level buff.
  • bloodedone87
    bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Duskblade have good stunlocks, but they are more on term with bm u ****. As I said it is the damage of sins combined with their ability to stunlock and the many other advantages they have that make them op. Duskblade are weak to me I don't see them being a threat anywhere near as huge as sins even at end game.

    Stormbringer are a joke. Yes their damage reduction buff is nice, but that is like having fox form or earth shield. They do not have those. Reaper form is short term and is not constant. They are very squishy and their damage is also nothing comparable to that of a sin.

    Sins will remain the most op of the classes as usual. The new classes are a joke to me really.

    Stormbringer are a joke? facepalm, facepalm, facepalm.
    Ok atm we dont have all skills for stormbringer in the game but still they are the most OP atm.
    Blood of the Nightshade

    Reduce melee autoattack damage by 65%, melee skills damage by 25%.

    -Demon: Increases critical chance by 1%.
    -Sage: Reduces melee autoattack damage by 68%, melee skills damage by 26%.
    And thats a passive.
    Lunar Guidance
    All squad members within 16 meters will receive a buff that reduces damage of melee attacks by 22%, lasting 30 minutes. [Generates 1 Ice Charge]

    -Demon: Increases your defense level by 15, for 15 seconds.
    -Sage: Has a 25% chance to gain 1 spark.

    And they have alot of OP skill but the most OP skill atm is:
    Electrostatic Discharge:
    Deals 20% base magic attack and 624 metal damage for each meter the debuffed target moves, lasting 12 seconds. Being further away from the caster increases the damage, but it will only affect someone who is moving.

    -Demon: Duration is increased by 1 second.
    -Sage: Cooldown is reduced by 3 seconds.
    And if you think that standing in place is a solution better think again. In mass pvp you cannot stand in place while having the flag in NW or pulling catas in TW. And in 1 vs 1 pvp the target that stand still will take dmg from other skills of stormbringer.
    Im gonna copy paste a discusion that I had yesterday with Joe from Morai server about this skill so you have an idea how OP is the skill:

    Me:In a situation sin vs stormbringer i wonder if the sin will take damage from Electrostatic Discharge if the sin uses shadow jump or shadow teleport while having discharge on him?
    For shadow jump skill description have the word '' moving'' in it but I dont know about teleport
    Joe:The sin will get dmg. If the debuff is applied then the target gets dmg for any pixel it moves. Why doesn't matter. Gaining hight also counts. so if you stand still just jumping you get dmg. You only prevent dmg if you stay right where you are and no centimeter away.
    Me:But wouldnt that mean instant dead for sins? Electrostatic deals dmg for every meter the target moves and those sins skills make them jump 30 and 35m.
    If its instant dead discharge is the most OP skill in the game atm.
    Joe:I know. Thats why I praised it from the beginning xD

    I just tested it with a sin my level. He was unbuffed and got 10k metal def.

    My SB has: 23,5k-28k mag attack atm with 101 att lvls and 380 Spirit.

    I applied the debuff and he used shadow teleport (35m) and got hit by 9,8k. While he moved in regular speed afterwards he got 4k ticks!

    Now imagine double the attack stat, 140 att lvl and 1k spirit.

    OP indeed.

    PS: Att/Def lvl don't matter...but I wanted to say it anyways. Only attack and spirit matter and metal def ofc.

    Edit: Triple sparked (43-51k mattack) he got hit by 17,6k (not full range of shadow teleport tho^^)

    If this skill is part of the skills that get their range increased to 42m with the morai skill then say good night during NW while pulling the flag. The sb can just wait in the air for someone to dig the flag, apply the debuff and watch them die as they try to Holy path their way out...xDDD that will be hilarious :D
    b:bye
    giphy.gif



  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    ...
    And if you think that standing in place is a solution better think again. In mass pvp you cannot stand in place while having the flag in NW or pulling catas in TW. And in 1 vs 1 pvp the target that stand still will take dmg from other skills of stormbringer.
    ...
    Lunar Surge can push back those, who want to stay anyway (about 9 meters away).
    Stormbringers can be OP in PvP, good that some players (like me) prefer PvE though.
  • nbreaking
    nbreaking Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    So... 5 years later, the same thread huh...

    ok, my main is a sin, but here's the thing people don't understand... If you know your class you can easily and I mean... EASILY kill a sin.

    A sin can stunlock? Sure we can but endgame casters have a proc on their weapon that purifies them, gives them speed and makes them immune to stuns for a little bit... this procs a lot btw (I am guessing the same as zerk, so, 20% of the times). When fighting an endgame caster, elimination, life hunter and cursed jail are a no no... why? Since they hit several times, there's a higher chance it will make their weapon proc and trust me, if their weapon procs on the second hit of cursed jail for example, they will run away and have around 2 secs where you will still be using the skill and not damaging them (just the animation keeps going) making you vulnerable to their attacks.

    Tidal is OP? Sure, evades 66% of negative status (if sage) for 30 seconds with a 60 second CD, meaning half the fight you have tidal, half the fight you don't (most sins stealth when they run out of tidal, use a revelation potion, strike when they are vulnerable, not that hard). But if you want to take BP or Tidal from sins then let's see...

    - Barbs should lose the ability to invoke, I think it's too OP.
    - Clerics should lose Plume shell, way too OP (lasts for 20secs and CD is 30 secs, meaning that they have it on 2/3 of the fight, more time than tidal)
    - Mystics should lose their fast heals, their ability to pop sins out of stealth and that bubble skill that protects the whole squad for some time
    - Psychics should lose Psychic's will, soul of stunning and white voodoo
    - Archers should lose Blessing of the Condor and their leaps (Even though I think archers are the ones that are underpowered the most since their endgame weapon is pretty crappy)
    - BMs (the class OP says that has less dmg) should lose Heaven's Flame and Buddha's guard
    - Seekers should lose the 30 defense levels, too OP on a HA class, they should lose last stand and radiant sight too
    - Venos should lose bramble guard and bramble hood, also amp and purge


    This is obviously sarcasm, if you want to look at a class you always think they are OP... Each class has their strong points.

    Are Sins OP? Yes. Are sins gamebreaking? **** no.

    You are talking about a deity stone sin... Do you have any idea how much that sin spent on those deitys?LOL Of course they make him OP, giving him over 210 attack levels. You also talked about a JOSD psy, he was in black voodoo, if he was full JOSD he would have 48 defense lvls + 25 from r9 + 5 from the r9 ring = 78 defense levels... and then he loses 11 defense lvls from black voodoo.

    78-11 = 67 def lvls... and the sin has 210+ attack lvls.

    To add to this, maybe the sin has S max cards on spirit, making him a Deity sin with over 1000 spirit, which is, obviously, pretty deadly...

    If the psy was smart he would take on such an opponent on WHITE voodoo and change to black whenever he had the chance (for example when the sin went to stealth as tidal runs out, he could change to black fast, use a revelation pot and cast earth vector, maybe try to stun lock him with occult ice and etc...)

    This Deity sin you are talking about has at most 30-40 defense lvls, he will drop pretty fast (unless he is smart, has o'malley with him and r8r with def lvls, that's what i switch to when i flee).

    Anyway, there are a lot of things you are not considering because you were too focused on the sin only.

    BTW, like I said before, my main is a sin, yet I have a psy too (G16+5) and I easily killed a r9rr sin (+7) the other day LOL... Learn your class, sins are easy to kill because they are both predictable and squishy (Yes, even with r9... specially if they are Deity)



    Mr. Justice
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Sins are a joke. I'm a barb and I just laugh them off. Once my SB is endgame...I as well just laugh them off.

    Note: I'm a pure 1on1 player. Mass PvP is to no interest to me, same goes for buffed PvP. Self-buffs only == sins squishy as sht aka laughable. I stopped taking anyone seriously that really thinks fighting buffed is anywhere close to fair and good. No. I call lack of Experience.

    If you let them hide behind their full buffs and Tidal then ofc you could get the picture of them being OP. Same will go for the SB and their anti-purge skill. A main reason while fighting buffed is retardedly stupid. But meh, more braindead ppl will try to tell me otherwise with more non-existent arguments altho it's so obvious that I'm right.

    So fighting selfbuffed...well sins are not much of a deal to any EQUALLY GEARED (ENDGAME!!!) Class.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • Poopinpanto - Heavens Tear
    Poopinpanto - Heavens Tear Posts: 274 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    sin are only OP if they are end game with all skills +12 refines cashed the hell out.Other than that most are still 1-2 shots and make great NW pointsb:laugh
  • Grimmjow_X - Dreamweaver
    Grimmjow_X - Dreamweaver Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    sin are broken right now, my main is a seeker with close to 45k P.def buffed and sin's are the class that can kill me the fastest, sins really need some kind of nerf
  • SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver
    SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,225 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Depending on your class OP, I'd recommend using genie skills, and apoth.

    Sins have long been need of some extensive time with the nerf bat...I can list some more capabilities of sins that you left out.

    But, they haven't received that badly needed time with the nerf bat, so what you can do in the meantime is to apoth, and use genie skills.

    Stealth detection pots can help too.

    I'm not speaking from a R9rr point of view...speaking from a G16 cleric point of view, but most of the average sins aren't uber tough defense-wise. In NW, most of my kills are probably sins...especially aps sins. (They sacrifice defense for attack speed...so if you can blast them...they can't stand long.) Biggest problem is controlling them, and surviving their initial frenzy of attacks...since if they catch you off guard with stealth....you'll be initially on the defensive.

    Just my two cents on it.

    But yeah...sins are horribly cheap. I absolutely agree with you there.
    "Male Player using female toon. Please don't flirt with me."

    Need to see the cleric guide for questions, comments, or concerns? Just copy and paste the link.
    "http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1246011"

    (Ignore the quotation marks. URL isn't allowed, so I had to do it that way.)
  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    i think i've expressed my opinion way too much about sins to the point that now i have a r9r3+10\12 dot endgame sin

    i believe at current endgame even elimination "COULD" be legit, what is not legit is the entire assassin skillset which elimination is combined

    you can deal the highest amounts of damage, i give you that ok you are the top gun, but you can't combine it with the ability of this DD to be unCCable and to be a tank aswell

    tidal is game breaker, an assassin can save his full buffs in pretty much any pvp situation, and anything at endgame with full buffs is almost unkillable (especially with stealths and deaden nerves)


    duskblade has a nice annoying skillset, loads OF ccs and even a cool DPS potential but,

    NO TIDAL!

    = you go in melee range you get a debuff or a purge and the duskblade is dead
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123524

    i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg
  • socean#3691
    socean#3691 Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Sins are a joke. I'm a barb and I just laugh them off. Once my SB is endgame...I as well just laugh them off.

    Note: I'm a pure 1on1 player. Mass PvP is to no interest to me, same goes for buffed PvP. Self-buffs only == sins squishy as sht aka laughable. I stopped taking anyone seriously that really thinks fighting buffed is anywhere close to fair and good. No. I call lack of Experience.

    If you let them hide behind their full buffs and Tidal then ofc you could get the picture of them being OP. Same will go for the SB and their anti-purge skill. A main reason while fighting buffed is retardedly stupid. But meh, more braindead ppl will try to tell me otherwise with more non-existent arguments altho it's so obvious that I'm right.

    So fighting selfbuffed...well sins are not much of a deal to any EQUALLY GEARED (ENDGAME!!!) Class.

    Dude I said they give them enough damage to fight barbs... barbs easily get 45k+def and easily get 45k+hp. Sins can still wreck barbs or at least their charm. Now casters on the other hand which only have around what 30 p.def on the average and what 17 - 23k typically how do they fight it. I've seen ur videos and sins still hit u hard. Yes casters have puri, butt it's a chance. U will get wrecked on your SD being a caster. Be ready to experience our pain when u don't have 45k+hp and 45k+ p.def. Enjoy your little damage reduction passive and buff it won't be as helpful as u might think :). Post your videos on Stormbringer please really have got to see this.

    Sins tidal is definitly broken it should be as short as sweekers.
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Dude I said they give them enough damage to fight barbs... barbs easily get 45k+def and easily get 45k+hp. Sins can still wreck barbs or at least their charm. Now casters on the other hand which only have around what 30 p.def on the average and what 17 - 23k typically how do they fight it. I've seen ur videos and sins still hit u hard. Yes casters have puri, butt it's a chance. U will get wrecked on your SD being a caster. Be ready to experience our pain when u don't have 45k+hp and 45k+ p.def. Enjoy your little damage reduction passive and buff it won't be as helpful as u might think :). Post your videos on Stormbringer please really have got to see this.

    Sins tidal is definitly broken it should be as short as sweekers.

    45k hp ain't much, and 45k pdef is garbage. A str barb in r9.3 with def passives should be rocking about 70k+ pdef.

    And any sin with a str genie can easily drop that 60-50k.

    All i hear is the story of a QQers that didn't work on their cards or passives and expects to be in the same league as someone who did. Please provide some evidence for your claims, otherwise we will dismiss them like all the other baseless idiotic assumptions.

    You have failed to provide screenshots, video, or any numbers. Why should we take you seriously?
  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    45k hp ain't much, and 45k pdef is garbage. A str barb in r9.3 with def passives should be rocking about 70k+ pdef.

    And any sin with a str genie can easily drop that 60-50k.

    All i hear is the story of a QQers that didn't work on their cards or passives and expects to be in the same league as someone who did. Please provide some evidence for your claims, otherwise we will dismiss them like all the other baseless idiotic assumptions.

    You have failed to provide screenshots, video, or any numbers. Why should we take you seriously?

    kekeke DD

    lvl 10 passives here, lvl 80 inner evil set, demon stone barrier

    endgame sin elimination is 6-8k each one of the 4 ticks on my def charms, i have 18k hp :-)

    SB will get deleted by sins, they have no p res out of reaper form
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123524

    i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg
  • bloodedone87
    bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    kekeke DD

    lvl 10 passives here, lvl 80 inner evil set, demon stone barrier

    endgame sin elimination is 6-8k each one of the 4 ticks on my def charms, i have 18k hp :-)

    SB will get deleted by sins, they have no p res out of reaper form

    But SB have a passive that reduce the melee auto attack by65% and melee skill dmg by 25%.
    And a buff that reduce the melee autoattack by 22%.
    And to be deleted by sins they have to stand in one place and let themself catch by sins.
    Good SB wont be deleted by sins. Dumb ones yes, they will be obliterated.
    giphy.gif



  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    But SB have a passive that reduce the melee auto attack by65% and melee skill dmg by 25%.
    And a buff that reduce the melee autoattack by 22%.
    And to be deleted by sins they have to stand in one place and let themself catch by sins.
    Good SB wont be deleted by sins. Dumb ones yes, they will be obliterated.

    melee autoattacks wont affect endgame sage sins thatuse skills,

    a 2spark elimination from stealth w\o having a p def self buff is a oneshot for them,

    hell i almost get osed with 35k (89% dmg redux) base p res,

    an SB will have something like 18-19k (81%) at endgame

    thats like half the damage reduction a wizard has at endgame self buffs , add the 22%, yea you are getting 78% more damage respect what the wizard gets, that is pure OBLITERATION

    theorically if i am getting 7k elimination ticks, SB will get 13k elimination ticks
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123524

    i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Have some perspective here...the only real reduction is in the 25% skill damage, that cancels out Primal passive and a little more.

    Moving is ditto because any player that doesn't move against melee dies anyway. That's why melees have ways to prevent people from moving.

    Of course all endgame chars now sport a permanent gear buff from Primal, so something like Mire doesn't **** its pdef as completely as it used to on unbuffed opponents.

    Still, I'd be curious what a deity sin buffed with Chill, 2 sparked from stealth using EP can deal to SB. Sins might be the most resistant to SB because they have less chances of getting debuffed.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • tsyfall
    tsyfall Posts: 9
    edited January 2015
    Sins are too powerful on retail due to their gear. Everyone's too squishy and dies in 1 stun. Sins are much more balanced when chain stun and amps are necessary.
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    melee autoattacks wont affect endgame sage sins thatuse skills,

    a 2spark elimination from stealth w\o having a p def self buff is a oneshot for them,

    hell i almost get osed with 35k (89% dmg redux) base p res,

    an SB will have something like 18-19k (81%) at endgame

    thats like half the damage reduction a wizard has at endgame self buffs , add the 22%, yea you are getting 78% more damage respect what the wizard gets, that is pure OBLITERATION

    theorically if i am getting 7k elimination ticks, SB will get 13k elimination ticks

    This is not true. I tested this severely.

    My SB and clric both got 8.8k pdef. Equal def lvl, equal spirit (+-10). SB got her own buff as well, cleric just everything to get equal def. I used Rising dragon strike 10x times on both and took the average.

    Sin with 78 Att lvl on them with 36 def lvl:

    Cleric gets 2,7k - 11k DMG
    SB gets 2.2k - 9k DMG

    This equals ~23% less dmg on the SB.

    Now the sin got 48 Att lvl:

    Cleric gets 2,3k - 9k DMG
    SB gets 1,7k - 6,8k

    This equals ~30% less DMG on the SB.

    The sins att stat is 13k-15k.

    So all in all I can say...the closer the attackers Att lvl value to the def lvl value of the SB the more they get out of their passive/buff. I have to add that the buff also gets way more effective with rising pdef values. So even if the Att lvl/def lvl gap is quite huge they got a clean ~23% end-dmg reduce which is far better then any other pdef buff in this game. Imagine this on fully buffed 40k pdef SBs. No sin will kill a fully buffed, jaded SB. Never...or well at least not as easy as the other classes.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I don't understand what you just tried to prove...2 classes, same pdef, except one has an extra buff, and the one with an extra buff took less damage...?

    A better predictor of how vulnerable SB will be at endgame against surprise sin buttsecks would be how well endgame psychics fare against sins right now.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I don't understand what you just tried to prove...2 classes, same pdef, except one has an extra buff, and the one with an extra buff took less damage...?

    A better predictor of how vulnerable SB will be at endgame against surprise sin buttsecks would be how well endgame psychics fare against sins right now.

    yup thats a correct comparison, endgame psys out of psy will (even on white) are 1shots on self buffs, and struggle a lot on full buffs, i could whitness that many times

    also endgame is very much different from "early" game let's call it like that,
    and it's all the way around respect what you shown Joe
    you can't really bring an argument around 10k resistance values and with an early game assassin damage,
    also a debuff on such value will cause a much higher damage increase respect how that debuff will behave @ endgame resistance values

    also clerics have plume shell, SB has no kind of physical damage reduction self buff besides the 25% passive that is almost nonsense since all the other classes have more or less buffs comparable to what it could be a 50-60% p damage reduction selfbuffs

    trust me, you are hyped now, you will endgame your SB, you will prolly half josd half deity it, then you ll get osed by trinity or preist constantly in any situation, or even you will get osed by my blade tempests (since its ranged skill damage), you will quit and return on your barb xD
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123524

    i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    yup thats a correct comparison, endgame psys out of psy will (even on white) are 1shots on self buffs, and struggle a lot on full buffs, i could whitness that many times

    also endgame is very much different from "early" game let's call it like that,
    and it's all the way around respect what you shown Joe
    you can't really bring an argument around 10k resistance values and with an early game assassin damage,
    also a debuff on such value will cause a much higher damage increase respect how that debuff will behave @ endgame resistance values

    also clerics have plume shell, SB has no kind of physical damage reduction self buff besides the 25% passive that is almost nonsense since all the other classes have more or less buffs comparable to what it could be a 50-60% p damage reduction selfbuffs

    trust me, you are hyped now, you will endgame your SB, you will prolly half josd half deity it, then you ll get osed by trinity or preist constantly in any situation, or even you will get osed by my blade tempests (since its ranged skill damage), you will quit and return on your barb xD

    Ah we'll see, don't underestimate the passive/buff xD

    All I know is that if end-game and in reaper form the SBs will be unkillable from physical dmg. I'm aiming for 25k Pdef selfbuffed on my SB so that should push me to around 55k pdef while being in Reaper-Form xD VS sins it's all about surviving the first elemination. Once that is done sins will have a hard time fighting SBs. Due to their anti-stun sins can hardly catch them w/o any sort of paralyze. Ah we'll see...but as long as PWE/CN doesn't move their butts and give us our r9rr, SBs will be a non-factor (in most cases) obviously.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Ah we'll see, don't underestimate the passive/buff xD

    All I know is that if end-game and in reaper form the SBs will be unkillable from physical dmg. I'm aiming for 25k Pdef selfbuffed on my SB so that should push me to around 55k pdef while being in Reaper-Form xD VS sins it's all about surviving the first elemination. Once that is done sins will have a hard time fighting SBs. Due to their anti-stun sins can hardly catch them w/o any sort of paralyze. Ah we'll see...but as long as PWE/CN doesn't move their butts and give us our r9rr, SBs will be a non-factor (in most cases) obviously.

    25k self buffed excuse me? xD

    i have 20k with an S card as a durability card part of the S set, you will reach 18k with a star's destiny ring and a lvl 80 S card
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123524

    i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    25k self buffed excuse me? xD

    i have 20k with an S card as a durability card part of the S set, you will reach 18k with a star's destiny ring and a lvl 80 S card

    I'm going 16 garnet gems/8 josd cause I figured I'd need more pdef xDDD Not sure how it'll play out, but I'll go along with that for now. Plus I surely am going full EU-set again on the SB (2 cards down so far) that will give quite some def as well. Maybe I'll just end up at 23k but well that would be ok as well. Not really sure if I need that many josd as my primary targets will be sins with 190 Att lvl+. Kinda useless adding that many josd while fighting them.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
This discussion has been closed.