Pros & Cons?

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TemptingFire - Dreamweaver
TemptingFire - Dreamweaver Posts: 129 Arc User
edited January 2015 in Archer
  1. Whats the Pros of a Sage archer?
  2. Whats the Cons of a Sage Archer?
  3. Whats the Pros of a Demon Archer?
  4. Whats the Cons of a Demon Archer?

Also which order in Morai is best for an archer to join first. (aka which one has the most wanted skill to work towards first)
Post edited by TemptingFire - Dreamweaver on

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  • Fail_BM - Raging Tide
    Fail_BM - Raging Tide Posts: 929 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    @ 2nd page: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1682571

    @ 4th page: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1627131

    Demon and sage are somewhat balanced because of quickshot now, back in time it used to be a mess. However, most archers go demon because to use auto-attack and some other skills is easier than skill spamming (sage).

    Shroud if you want Ataraxia, good for running away.

    Corona if you want right and left leaps, good for surviving.

    Luminance if you want Arrow Inferno, another AoE, cost 1 spark, mind-long CD. Mostly used in PvP.

    I would go to shroud to get ataraxia first, then corona to get the leaps. You cannot move at all when you use ataraxia, but if you use right/left leap you can leap while you are stealthed. Luminance as the last one if you want to get another AoE/pvp oriented skill.
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  • TemptingFire - Dreamweaver
    TemptingFire - Dreamweaver Posts: 129 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Fail_BM - Raging Tide wrote: »
    @ 2nd page: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1682571

    @ 4th page: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1627131

    Demon and sage are somewhat balanced because of quickshot now, back in time it used to be a mess. However, most archers go demon because to use auto-attack and some other skills is easier than skill spamming (sage).

    Shroud if you want Ataraxia, good for running away.

    Corona if you want right and left leaps, good for surviving.

    Luminance if you want Arrow Inferno, another AoE, cost 1 spark, mind-long CD. Mostly used in PvP.

    I would go to shroud to get ataraxia first, then corona to get the leaps. You cannot move at all when you use ataraxia, but if you use right/left leap you can leap while you are stealthed. Luminance as the last one if you want to get another AoE/pvp oriented skill.

    Awesome! Thank you so much.
  • TitsMcGee_ - Sanctuary
    TitsMcGee_ - Sanctuary Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    I have never seen a sage archer rely on skill spam over auto in a situation where a demon wouldn't. Your advice is somewhat misleading in that respect. The real pros of sage is that it ****s chi and caters a little better to the pro-DPH thing PWI has been rolling with lately. It also has slightly (negligably) higher range. + other negligable pros that aren't really worth mentioning.

    Cons of sage archer: No demon quickshot

    Pros of demon: Demon quickshot. Demon spark. Demon Barrage. Sounds like a short list but it kind of balances with sage. I'd be sage if not for these.

    Cons of demon: harder to gain chi.

    Either way the class is still very limited. Unless you can gear/card it spectacularly you are better off with a different class.

    and if you PvP YOU DEFINITELY WANT TO GO FOR LEAPS FIRST

    Leaps are wonderful, best for kiting and added mobility + trolling people who are mid cast if you have good ping. By far it's the most all-around useful and versatile of the morai skills. Definitely prioritize if you pvp.

    Stealth is only really a last resort, to buy a little time and take people's attention off of you if you are running froma group. Even if you get popped a few seconds later, it will take a bit for most to realize. But since your mobility is very poor, your risk of being popped is pretty high. Don't expect anything amazing. It's also decent for PvE. If you only PvE, perhaps this would be the priority.

    Arrow Inferno is a highly underrrated unpurifyable debuff. Archers will find that often we have trouble getting enough damage in to finish a kill before a charm tick, this sweet debuff is a great help for those situations. I wouldn't necessarily rank it below ataraxia. It's up to you when to get it, but I think most get it last.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Arrow Inferno can be the difference between a dead cat barb and a ticked cat barb sometimes. It's been scary what could have happened if I didn't use it, so definitely use it.

    Sage's 5s ranged stun is actually pretty nice.

    Demon is not terrible for chi if you TA spam as often as possible. Usually I'm poking for QS proc and use TA spam when it doesn't proc.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
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  • AsMyliuTave - Sanctuary
    AsMyliuTave - Sanctuary Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Sage benefits: longer stun, better chi-gaining, slightly higher range (winged blessing) and phys attack (bow mastery)
    Demon benefits: demon quickshot, demon spark, higher crit rate (especially with white wings)

    Most players at endgame or close to it will have crit rate so high that skill procs (sage quickshot, demon stunning arrow, demon sharpened tooth arrow) don't really matter so much.

    I'd advise a new player to go with a different class, but if you're really insistent on being an archer, I'd advise demon. It's a little bit better. That said, I made a demon archer recently just to play around with and I personally couldn't live with the lower chi gain. I've been sage for 3 years and I'm used to the play-style, and the chi.

    Morai skills; I got leaps first, then arrow inferno and stealth last. I never use stealth. I kinda forget I have it.
    Name: AsMyliuTave
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary
    Asterelle - Sanctuary Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    The difference between the cultivations is pretty small compared to some other classes. In general sage has a bit better in skills like shartooth, stun arrow, and metal, but demon has strength in some important skills like quickshot, barrage, and triple spark.

    Demon also has an easier time purging than sage since sage is more skill oriented and very few archer skills are capable of activating weapon procs while demon is more aps oriented.

    That all said once you hit endgame both demon and sage are lousy compared to most classes out there in anything outside of TW and grinding. Even in TW archer is mostly a support DD now since they lack the damage to kill endgame players. Demon is better at support IMO because of mo zun taunt and better purge options.

    If there was a class-reroll stone in the boutique that let me switch over class and gear but keep sky level, meridian, nuema, cards, and titles I'd go for Stormbringer, Seeker, or Sin. Archer is in a pretty bad place with these last few expansions.
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  • Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver
    Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver Posts: 756 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Archer con: Duskblades are made to wreck them hard. Sage or demon won't help, but going demon will be the worst option as DB have skills that make your range damage tickle.
  • TitsMcGee_ - Sanctuary
    TitsMcGee_ - Sanctuary Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Archer con: Duskblades are made to wreck them hard. Sage or demon won't help, but going demon will be the worst option as DB have skills that make your range damage tickle.

    How adorable.

    Currently, there isn't anything that isn't made to wreck archers hard. I'm also not sure what you mean by "demon will be the worst option...". Are you implying that sage archers are melee or what? Surely you know their range is higher than a demon's...
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    People seem to think Sage play caster spam.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Horosho - Lost City
    Horosho - Lost City Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    People seem to think Sage play caster spam.

    What else are you gonna do when you're sage?
    ...
  • TitsMcGee_ - Sanctuary
    TitsMcGee_ - Sanctuary Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Horosho - Lost City wrote: »
    What else are you gonna do when you're sage?

    Go melee apparently.
  • Horosho - Lost City
    Horosho - Lost City Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    TitsMcGee_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Go melee apparently.

    Fist all the way.
    ...
  • Msmunholy - Lost City
    Msmunholy - Lost City Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited January 2015
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    I just went from demon to sage after years of playing demon. I did it strictly for pvp reasons. With all the new skills and stats spike damage is back in full force. So the higher dmg from mastery as well as blazing arrow really gets those crits up there. Also the 20% critical from quick shot (used with the genius skill winged she'll I think for attack speed) is nasty and spamable. Your tanker and deal more dmg overall. Spark with the attack speed genie skills is right there with demon but with 25% damage reduce. On the pve side demon quick shot and auto attack will tend to deal more dmg but I still steal ago from higher geared toons. And the chi on the sage side is so hot it kind of turns me on from being so deprived for so long.

    All in all I miss my demon qs but other than that I have been extremely happy with sage so far.
  • TitsMcGee_ - Sanctuary
    TitsMcGee_ - Sanctuary Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited January 2015
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    I wish chi gain turned me on.
    but then I'd have super sticky keyboard every time I play sage veno


    It's not actually that hard to maintain chi as a demon. You just have to be aware that you need to manage your chi well on a consistent basis. Even without cloud eruption, I tend to drop barrages more than my sage equals. Maybe they're just hoarding all that chi for no good reason.


    Also the skill is called wind shield, and I love archers that spam it because their genies are rarely ever statted to the skill's strength, its not enough to compensate for their bad defenses, and they put their genie in cd super fast. Makes a very predictable class that much more predictable and vulnerable.
  • DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited January 2015
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    Horosho - Lost City wrote: »
    Fist all the way.

    That's what she sa...

    nevermind
    Soon™
    Well, maybe later, semi-retired.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited January 2015
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    If you're going Sage and claiming the 25% increased weapon damage will cause spike damage to be in full force I would think one would spam Frenzy or EP instead.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty

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