Caster Vs Caster, does running while casting really help?

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xxxxjayxxxx
xxxxjayxxxx Posts: 99 Arc User
edited December 2014 in Stormbringer
So it occurred to me today that while fighting someone with the same range as you, they can still hit you while you can hit them (imagine my surprise!). This leads me onto the question, unless you are trying to run away, how useful is being able to run while casting vs others with similar ranges.

Thoughts and opinions are welcome from both pvp and pve points of view, as a member of a pve server I'm interested as to how people from pvp servers have been getting on slightly more. I'm sure there has been some new class pvp somewhere with some insight to the benifits.
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Post edited by xxxxjayxxxx on

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  • drcalgori87
    drcalgori87 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    first and only combo im willing to releas eis this, your caster opponent goes to cast a skill, you (the storm bringer) use icebullet so it stuns him/her then you run away put of range, toss on reaper form and whileyour opponent is now unstunned they try to cast another skill, hopefully reaper mode will let you survive, if not then you can try to use icebullet and then maybe go in and use fridged thunder, which by the way not only stuns/freezes but may also slow them down, allowing you to move out of range and cast another skill, toss in some sparks or other skills if you wish. I'm not letting my secrets out yet, but at lvl 54 i was able to solo all of 51 including wyvern, quite easy if you pay attention and read skills.
  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    At lvl 10 our skills get pre-celestial cap of 25.5 meters; putting us in range of a lot of players if in pvp. For pve, that range is enough to lock even caster mobs down by staying at the edge, and maximizing stun time with 3 ice orbs. Honestly main combo for me is usually water spam with ice bullet tossed in.

    If you had a tougher one, make use of the skills. Lowbie water for channeling buff, followed by ice bullet to stun. Use slow skill, followed by the skill that interrupts the target's channeling. At that point maintain max range and Ice bullet should be ready to go for another cycle. Re-apply debuffs as needed.
  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    PvP wise it makes sense to use the kiting vs sins, barbs, bm's, duskblades and to some extent seekers and venos. Especially vs the p-att classes you'll want to utilise reaper mode and the cast while moving skills for extra damage and pdef.

    Vs archers you'll want to stay in their face or out of their range (and yours) as usual, using reaper mode and antistun to close the gap in between.

    Vs ranged AA classes there's no point casting while running and you'll need the harder hitting non move while channelling skills to get through the mdef anyway.
    DarkSkiesx - Demon Archer
    mypers.pw/1.7/#114350

    DarkSeasx - Sage Assassin
    mypers.pw/1.7/#136481

    youtube.com/darkskiesx
    Tempest-dw.shivtr.com
  • xxxxjayxxxx
    xxxxjayxxxx Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Can you kill Qingzi at BH29 for your own bh29?

    Can you kill Khewy, Rattus Lord ? i basically did all of 1-69 with a friend, i suppose tank is the wrong word to use as i wasnt hit but i did have aggro.

    Can you kill Wyvern at bh51 ? Had a squad for this so i dont know

    Can you kill all bosses in bh69 ? I will do my bh later and let you know

    If not, then what is difference between Stormbringer and other Arcane classes ?

    I guess DarkSkies knows what i was trying to say while vs casters. As for pve, unless its a boss, mobs are normally dead before they get anywhere near me without the running about, caster/archer mobs might get one shot off depending on how close they were when i hit them. And then when they do hit, its normally less than 100, i still have those free recover 1100 hp pots or however much they healed, so at the moment, im running about questing and im not really finding a use for the running.

    That being said, thats not to say i dont see any value in it. kiting bosses that will one shot you is pretty fun ive found. I would also assume that Electrostatic Discharge is good for when you want to drag people around, would be awesome if someone could tell me how good it is in pvp.

    As i dont do pvp, I wouldnt really know any good tactics to use untill i start doing NW which will be when i hit 100 and get all my gear. So if someone could maybe give a few combos that work well in pvp and before anyone says it, kiting out of someones range doesnt count, id try to do that anyway. b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bloodedone87
    bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Can you kill Qingzi at BH29 for your own bh29?

    Can you kill Khewy, Rattus Lord ?

    Can you kill Wyvern at bh51 ?

    Can you kill all bosses in bh69 ?

    If not, then what is difference between Stormbringer and other Arcane classes ?

    Range bosses like Khewy i cant solo also they have increse his hp. They have increse the hp of many bosses in world map.. But melee bosses like Gouf are no problem to storm.
    If you want to see diference between storm and other arcane just play one. You ll be able to do things that you werent with your wiz.
    And when I see storm can kill melee bosses in lvl range i mean killing them without taking any damage. Can your wizard do that.Or does your wizard has to use pots, heals or get a cleric? And tanked and soloing are 2 different things.
    giphy.gif



  • xxxxjayxxxx
    xxxxjayxxxx Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Tried to solo nob earlier, got killed after he slowed me, should be able to solo easy though if i get a genie with holy path, ill give it another go at some point later if i sort a genie out
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bloodedone87
    bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I try now to set link to image of my old level 59 Wizard tanked Farren.

    Gouf was not problem for me (was running from he far than see on early levels, then could kill him).

    Here is it:
    http://i.imgur.com/l4Z596a.jpg

    When you kite with a wizard or other arcane you run, stop, attack, run, stop, attack.
    When you do it with a storm you run and attack in the same time.
    thats the advantage of a stormbringer.
    Also a storm can make the boss take damage by chasing the toon. Electrostatic discharge is your friend. Not only the boss takes damage from attack, also every meter he moves lower his hp.
    And remember what i said: Storm can solo melee bosses without being hit once if keeps distance.
    giphy.gif



  • xxxxjayxxxx
    xxxxjayxxxx Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    So I want to see screenshot of Damned Gaurnob (bh69) solo or something like it.

    ill be doing another attempt of that after i get a better genie, atm i dont have one to sprint after i get slowed
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bloodedone87
    bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    So I want to see screenshot of Damned Gaurnob (bh69) solo or something like it.

    Remember, that distance is matter, so if you run far from boss, then you can't hit him, if you near him, then boss can kill you.

    Also, do you know, that while kitting Wizard can hit targets behind him (not in front him)?

    Explanation:
    1 Start spell like gush,
    2 Press button to run from enemy (while still casting spell)
    3 You will be not able to run now, but enemy will be behind you, what will save your time to run from enemy after spell

    Dude you still want to prove stormbringer is not that good as al that have played it are saying.
    you want to prove there is no difference between other casters and storm. There is a big difference. All people that have played storm have confirmed that there are things you can do with a storm that you are not able to do with other caster.
    Its no sense in trying to explain to you how stormbringer is better. You will keep trying to prove is not.
    Go , make one and play it. you will see the difference.
    giphy.gif



  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    People are missing the best part of running while casting for pvp; we don't have to completely stop and take a slight bit of time to actually start casting. We can holy path in to negate our range difference, and toss a stun skill off to start things off right. Range doesn't matter if you're in theirs already, and they are stunned.
  • bloodedone87
    bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I said about PvE only.

    I know, that above bosses cannot be stunned.

    But some of them can greatly decrease physical defense, after that even small hit can kill character.

    Low level spells of players have low range (while bosses have almost same or even more range of their spells or ranged attacks),
    while high level characters with high level level spells not need those low level bhs to be soloed.

    Edit:
    Here are some low level bosses.
    Khewy :
    http://i.imgur.com/tsSxztT.jpg
    Gouf (since I had said about it above, this boss has not any ranged attack):
    http://i.imgur.com/M6MlKc0.jpg

    On all screenshots
    Cleric ShadowIH
    is my character from my second account.

    Dude at lvl 64 you are taking dmg from Gouf.
    When I soloed him at lvl 49 he didnt hit me once.b:chuckle
    And i was self buffed only.
    I am talking baout storm class ofc.
    giphy.gif



  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I said about PvE only.

    Who cares? I wasn't referencing any of your posts, I was discussing the actual topic of the question.
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Who cares? I wasn't referencing any of your posts, I was discussing the actual topic of the question.

    Delete any quotes of my posts, since I had deleted my posts already.

    This thread should be named Stormbringer vs Stormbringer.
  • reincarnateme
    reincarnateme Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    xxxxjayxxxx wrote: »
    So it occurred to me today that while fighting someone with the same range as you, they can still hit you while you can hit them (imagine my surprise!). This leads me onto the question, unless you are trying to run away, how useful is being able to run while casting vs others with similar ranges.

    Thoughts and opinions are welcome from both pvp and pve points of view, as a member of a pve server I'm interested as to how people from pvp servers have been getting on slightly more. I'm sure there has been some new class pvp somewhere with some insight to the benifits.


    My main is a wizard and playing a stormbringer is very VERY refreshing! ( Thou I hate my self that I enjoy playing sb now than my wiz but bye to the days where i have to run so far so i can have time to wait for skills to chan ). PVE wise, stormbringer being able to cast while casting is really helpful especially agaisnt melee mobs/boss. You can kill them w/o tanking/taking hits from your targets. And also I noticed even w/ range mob sometimes you can cheat your way by running around them coz it seem like they channel too when they hit. they cant hit while they are spinning to your direction. But I'm not sure if it works w/ all range mobs. I need to observe more.


    I dont have pvp experience yet on my sb but I can say the dots are gonna be toruble to those classes that chase you. ^^
  • Toryni - Raging Tide
    Toryni - Raging Tide Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    bloodedone87 wrote: »
    Dude you still want to prove stormbringer is not that good as al that have played it are saying.
    you want to prove there is no difference between other casters and storm. There is a big difference. All people that have played storm have confirmed that there are things you can do with a storm that you are not able to do with other caster.
    Its no sense in trying to explain to you how stormbringer is better. You will keep trying to prove is not.
    Go , make one and play it. you will see the difference.


    There is indeed a difference. Yes, you can do things you can't with other casters, but remember mystic and veno have pets and cleric has heals. You could solo all those melee bosses on those casters at those levels too if you know what you are doing and have decent gear. To me, it's really in comparison with wiz and psy that Stormbringers shine, especially wiz. I would definitely say that Stormbringer is better than wiz. The only thing that wiz has going for them is the constant pdef buff and Blade tempest for physical damage (even though it requires two sparks...) in pvp. Psys have their buffs, voodoos and soulforce centered procs that are nice. Their heal is useful in pve squads as well. Wiz, however, are just pure DD and some CC (demon) not to mention that their squad buff is extremely limited in use and of no benefit to casters whatsoever. To boot, their channeling is atrocious, except when they use wellspring (demon, requiring one spark) or essential sutra which lasts for 6 secs and requires 2 sparks. I really think that they need a rework in order to be truly useful again in PVE. Even though I am enjoying stormbringer, it's certainly not more useful than a good mystic in a squad, pve or pvp; it does, however, definitely eclipse wiz and psy to some extent.

    For a potential rework (Even though this falls out of the range of the topic on this thread):

    1. I would suggest increasing the damage on dragon's breath by factoring in weapon damage instead of just base magic damage.
    2. Keep frostblade but give them a new buff to increase the base mana of all in squad.
    3. The primal barriers are great changes, keep them that way! :D
    4. Essential sutra should require 1 spark, not 2. The CD is fine at 1 minute.
    5. Ice prison should cost 1 spark, not two.
    6. Elemental shell should have 25% chance to puri the caster, not a measly 10% and its bonus should last a bit longer than 4 secs.
    7. Manifest virtue should have more of a bonus to magic attk for the cost of a spark..than an actual spark does ;)
    8. Tactical/mortal reversion should work everywhere, not just on main map and it should work on mobs...that would just be fun! :D
    9. Arcane defense should proc on any melee attacks, including skills not just normal melee hits. It's too easily countered the way it currently is. Besides, who uses automelee attacks now with primal passives? It's like a noob alert at the moment...
    ~ Toriano ~ Demon Mystic 102-102-101 ~

    Sage Cleric 101-101-100/Sage Seeker 100-100-100
    Demon Sin 102-101-8x/Sage Wiz 101-101-100
    Sage Psy 100-100/Demon BM 101/Demon Veno 96
  • Tsukishi - Dreamweaver
    Tsukishi - Dreamweaver Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    my thoughts on stormbringer vs a caster/ranged mob or class. Running while casting can be useful to an extent.

    In PvE u can sometimes just stay out of range of the caster/archer mobs and only take 1 hit.
    PvP i have not done with this class yet so i cant really say much about it but i think that moving while casting could be a curveball to some people.


    From what i looked at so far my veno's skills out range my Stormbringers by just a little bit. That sounds like they can still hit you if u try to kite them but I think in reality if u are constantly moving you can stay on the edge of their cast ranges forcing them to inch up in order to acutally target you meawhile u are casting that whole time.


    Of course Ice bullet seems to be the go-to spell to initiate with so it prbably largely depends on how much damage u can inflict in that 5 sec window, or your ability to contiune to control the fight by capitazling on that stun time.


    for example maybe something like Ice bullet> Devouring Darkness > Lunar swiftness ( at this point they are no longer stunned: they will want to lock you down somehow so u can block that this way) > proceed to kite til ice bullet is up again using mobile spells > stun again and drop something heavy hitting this time.

    also maybe instead of devouring darkness you can see if churning vortes proves useful in keeping you out of their range by pulling them back towards it while u back up? probably though in a pvp fight u would want to save that spark for Supercell since its so versatile.


    seekers are weird to think about fighting because they can ranged attack or get up in your face but if u time Lunar swiftness to block the stun from voidstep and then lunar surge to knockback u can put distance between them and i think (not sure) that your spells out range theirs.
  • TieIer - Dreamweaver
    TieIer - Dreamweaver Posts: 180 Arc User
    edited December 2014
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    im not 100% sure about this but if your casting a spell and someone runs out of your range doesnt the skill stop casting? i kinda feel liek it does but im not sure (at least on my seeker) i know it doesnt work like that on stormbringer so thats an advantage if its correct
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