No DQ coins, gear drops 150 coins or less???

So you're saying it's better to **** over everyone, rather than let a few people have some more money than the rest? Quit trying to justify or defend this, when it harms so many more people than it supposedly helps.

The entire concept of dealing with the influx of coin into the system from botting by removing the value of the drops isn't a great solution for PWI. PWCN has bot armies of 200+ from just one player. Their problem is severe and unique to their game but not ours.

A much better solution to deal with a greater influx of coin into the system created by an in game feature would have been to create a proper coin sink mechanism that allows players to choose how to remove coins from the system. These mechanisms should be a choice. Entry fees for world events. There are already fees paid by factions for TW. Then I suggested a daily raffle or even an auction for high end stuff sponsered by Duke Blacke. I'm certain a lot of high level people would be willing to pay 10 to 15 mil each for a chance to win a DoD, JSOD, and probably much more for a SOT or any such rare stuff from packs. Maybe raffle S chests and D orbs.

Point is the better solution is mandataing and by choice giving the player base more options to NPC the coin out of the system rather than restricting the amount of coin which is generated into the system.

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

I not saw bots before autocultivation at our server.

Do you understand, that bots ruined bases of pwi ?

Now bots rule pwi, while at early stage players played in pwi.

You didn't look very hard then. Prior to auto culti goothes, spiders (ones near harpy and the base quest spiders), a lot of morai mobs were innundated with 3rd party bots

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

Without source of "the influx of coin into the system from botting" there will be not " influx of coin into the system from botting", so this solve problem and remove any advantages of the bots (I even not say "players" here).

Players loose cost of DQ items though.

Other way was to remove bots, what could be much better.

Removing value of drops hurt those who do not bot just as much if not more than those who do. 8x -10x toons are likely going to find it more difficult to upgrade skills and maintain and upgrade gear. I've been botting since last Christmas and I made a lot from it but nothing compared to what I made merchanting during the same time period. I made more coin in 4 days of making and selling GSTs than I did in a whole year of botting 24/7. But I digress. You people seen to think that the solution of eliminating values of drops if going to magically fix the economy. It will not. Main reason is that the overwhelming majority of coin generated from botters over the past year is still in circulation and will be for quite some time. People are going to hoard, to transfer it from one player to the next by merchanting and selling gold in the AH and all but they are going to resist getting the coins out of the system by sinking them into an NPC.

One has to ask who is most likely to have a lot of the coin? low level players trying to boost their characters or the high levels who have already done what they need to be at or near end game? The latter group needs an incentive to sink their coin out of the system. If not it will still accumulate because there still are many other ways of generating coin from the system. BH, Cube, JoJ from all those low levels, etc.

About botting, I'm not going to stop botting. In fact I may make some mid to upper range toons just to bot on mobs. Why? Because mats they will farm still have a lot of value. Many more than the NPC value. All those mats which people need to earn manufacturing skills are still in demand and who wants to waste gold getting them from the cash shop.

PW gave us a bot system, so I started to use. They reduce the time I could use it, and strangely it didn't affect my account at all. Since I was already botting 7 to 8 hours a day.

On a regular day, depending on the mob I chose, I made from 1 mil to 3 mil in drop. If I didn't get disconnected, pked or log off. Witch happened almost regularly every 3 days average.

So let take a 30 day month, in witch I farm every day in the best month cause I didn't bot every day in real. I would have 20 days income for real, let put it at 2 mil average = 40 mil coins.

In that you have to remove my lost. Auto-recovery stone for the month, -3G about 7.5 mil (now it would be 9 mil) . 10 doll charm to keep sin away from my drop, I made those whit token at average 16k Ea. 1.44mil coins. Repair bill on each bot day was around 120k, so 3.6 mil. = 12.5 mil average. So on the 40 mil I have 27.5 mil left per month = 330 mil coins..

That's like 110$ at current price. Not much if you ask me. Most of that money goes in to base pot for TW and lunar run. Small gear upgrade. At the end of the line you still need to charge the visa. Witch I did to get my r9 cause it would take for ever.

On the rest of the day I usually meditate and play 2 to 3 hours.

PWI want to cut that out fine. Make it so that if I bot, I only get exp. Witch is the real reason behind the bot system if you ask me.

Under normal dungeon I always had around 10% more in drop from my repair bill. So if it cost me 100k repair I had 110k 120k in drop.

Now I have 100k repair bill and 900 coins in drop...

it's just depressing and unfair.

I will not advertise or invite more friends to play pwi

With this WORST expansion ever, now you can just go pull your wallet to get better stuff.

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

You had selected to bot instead to play.

Because of botting system REAL players lost DQ items.

But they have reward from quests yet.

I presume, that those bots, which lost their profit now bot Jolly Old Jones quests.

At least they do less harm to pwi economy now.

Edit:
Also high level players always talked about gold TT drops and bh millions coins (same reward from BH quest).

Do you remember, what mean to play ?

Bots will do "harm" to the PWI economy, no matter what they're farming. It is possible to have bots and be a "REAL" player at the same time, you know? As for what it means to play, there's no point now in actually playing the game, since the dev team keeps deliberately **** over the players and people like you place all the blame on the players, or try to defend their stupid decisions.

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Fixed it for you. We didn't get DQ nerfs any time because of PWI bots. We got the system because of Chinese version bots. IMO PWI is set up for HIGH coin pricing. Each NW gear costs approx 200m coins per piece. Creation stone = 185m. Base helm = 490m....

You may not have liked gold prices but this nerf on everything, hurts the players.

I agree with this statement. It's not because of PWI botting at all. It's because of the massive botting problem on PWCN. Did you forget that DQ values for 1 to 8x drops were nerfed long before the auto culti was implemented into our game? Did you forget why we were given the DQ rewards system? Did you forget why the JoJ quest chain was implemented in PWI? All that had absolutely nothing to do with PWI auto culti. 8x+ DQ coin nerf was not implemented on PWCN until this expansion went live on their servers last September. So yes, we're getting nerfed because PWCN got nerfed. Not because we have an auto culti botting system.

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

... It's not because of PWI botting at all. It's because of the massive botting problem on PWCN. Did you forget that DQ values for 1 to 8x drops were nerfed long before the auto culti was implemented into our game? Did you forget why we were given the DQ rewards system? Did you forget why the JoJ quest chain was implemented in PWI? All that had absolutely nothing to do with PWI auto culti. 8x+ DQ coin nerf was not implemented on PWCN until this expansion went live on their servers last September. So yes, we're getting nerfed because PWCN got nerfed. Not because we have an auto culti botting system.

More than 3 years in pwi were no bots.

Gold had not risen so far as now.


Because some of you want free-to-bot you forget, that some players want free-to-play.


How else can be named computer without player if not bot ?

P.S.
Again I am against bots and I am more than sure, that DQ nerf is now necessary because of the bots and not in China server, but at pwi servers.
Edit:
Or name this "game" Bot International to be known to newbies, what is this.

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

in the first year of PWI HT had a few people botting already to get their lvls
when we had the old old dq system witth he MoGs there were a lot of bots, a lot of the first R9s botted the mogs, and used the glitch to sell the mogs

Then bots must be removed.

And this is problem of PWI.

I remember how had been reduced DQ points shop because of the some "players".

SinfulLia - Archosaur wrote: »

...
Before this post is flooded with QQ about bots, that is not our problem as a player base, it is PWE problem and they as a company HAVE to deal with it, not punish the rest of the player base.

...

Peedy - Harshlands wrote: »

This is a quitting affair. I'm r9rr and can't face all cash play. It already took real dedication to bot for coins, I averaged 2 - 4 mil a day with reasonable drops. That is not possible now. I mad 168 last night.

I'm done with this game if it is not changed.

Let me compare ... I played without bot to farm 5 millions coins to some gear and did it during one day.

It was my time, I really played.

I could not do it every other day.

And now you, having R9rr, poor in comparison with my level 94 Wizard cry here.

This is so sad.

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

More than 3 years in pwi were no bots.

Gold had not risen so far as now.


Because some of you want free-to-bot you forget, that some players want free-to-play.


How else can be named computer without player if not bot ?

P.S.
Again I am against bots and I am more than sure, that DQ nerf is now necessary because of the bots and not in China server, but at pwi servers.
Edit:
Or name this "game" Bot International to be known to newbies, what is this.

You can think what you want but I will tell you how wrong you are.... Let me explain...

We have Super NOOB CM by the name of Sparkie who listens to all the cry babies on forums... He listened to the Bot QQers, well now we have earning time that he didn't resist... He listened to the FC QQers, we have no hypers in FC.... Luckily we all have lvl 100 noob alts from Illusion Stones.. Let me har some more tears about FC noobs now b:laugh

He will never fight for the DQ rewardsystem, or release of Earning time (earning time is mandated by Chinese law). We are stuck with nerfd gear drops and 1 coin DQ... Why? Well DQ we never had a choice for but previously our CM took that issue of unfairness up with China and got us DQ rewards... What is Sparkie doing about this now? Nothing, he is absolutely silent..

But the earning time should be lifted. Super Noob CM will never ask for that either... He listened to the players, just not the right ones.

I am ok with the current coin nerfs even though I feel it is unhealthy. I am NOT ok with earning time because now you can no longer grind DQ (this is how we did $$ pre auto system too) and you are limited in your instance farming potential...

PWI always had bots, these were the people who did not cash shop and were running around with +12 weps and stuff. I can find thread of people complaining about it on forums as far back years ago.... Auto-Culti made it more fair for all players.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1007772&highlight=bots

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

More than 3 years in pwi were no bots.

Gold had not risen so far as now.


Because some of you want free-to-bot you forget, that some players want free-to-play.


How else can be named computer without player if not bot ?

P.S.
Again I am against bots and I am more than sure, that DQ nerf is now necessary because of the bots and not in China server, but at pwi servers.
Edit:
Or name this "game" Bot International to be known to newbies, what is this.

Funny but back when I first started farming to buy a herc gold was selling for 120K each. Then pack sales came from the cash shop and gold instantly went to 1 mil each. Then we had rank sales for cash shoppers to buy end game gears with gold and it went to 2 mil or more. From 120K to 2+ mil compared to 2+ mil to 4 mil. Hmm. We're talking 16 times the inflation vs double inflation. Do continue to lecture us about the gold inflation thing. It's amusing.

If too much coin is being introduced into the system from an in game feature the most logical and respectful solution is to create an incentive for players to sink the coin back out of the system. There is very little incentive now to do it especially for high levels who are hoarding most of the coin which is keeping gold prices high. You are not likely to see a significant drop in gold prices until there is a way to sink the coins out of the system. It's too bad you cannot comprehend that. It's too bad that PW devs decided to punish those earning coin from open world game play rather than devise a scheme for players to make a choice about how to sink these coins out of circulation. All that is going on now is that players are transferring coins to each other.

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

... I am NOT ok with earning time because now you can no longer grind DQ (this is how we did $$ pre auto system too) and you are limited in your instance farming potential...

Not me, but you are limited in bot farming potential !!!

I think, that any bug must be fixed, instead you want that it must to be duty for players to give away their computers to pwi.

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

.... Auto-Culti made it more fair for all players.
...

Auto-Culti is protection for bots, it is their official defense against real players.


Let me quote other player:

Larkel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I played when the game first came out and I took a break, and I guess I missed out on the whole autoculti thing during that break. I've come back and took a look at the AH and I was like holy #$%^. I definitely understand the massive amount of coin you are talking about.

It became clear to me really fast that people had amassed a lot of coin during that time, and that gold won't be clearing out for a long time. 25 million for this and that, like it is a drop in the bucket??

It's hard to play this game and not want all the flashy things you see. So coming to the game and starting out at level 95 will be extremely frustrating...I doubt they will stick around long.

Edit:
I think, that pots can be nerfed too because of the bots ...
To prevent any further nerfs bots must be excluded from game.

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

Clearing the backlog of coin is already in progress. PWI was kinda smart about it: Players with a backlog of coin will want to use it for fun. So, put out the carrot of a new class, and players will spend money (coin, not gold) on kitting out a new class toon. This wipes a huge chunk of the coin in the economy itself.

Next, coin generation. I've done some testing myself:
- Running BH1: Average of 650K per turn-in with the current chances for excitement and extacy cards. This is not including the sale of subs/mirages you get from the nirvana talisman, or any of the extra rewards.
- Jolly Jones: Depending on how you want to do it, can on average generate up to 774k on a lvl 71-80 toon if you run all. 570k if you skip the fighting quests, 360k if you only do the pulp grinder. Only one toon per account can do Jones quest per tier, so it's wise to use a secondary account for Jones quests if you plan to make this your main moneymaker (and starting players probably have to do it this way).
- Autocultivation: Depending on what toon you use for it and how powerful. Repair costs now become a factor. But you still turn some 500k profit for 6 hours of autocultivation easily (this is on my BM, fist weapon, G15/16 gear... repair costs relatively high), this is including the sale of jade and potions. Best toons for autocultivation-for-coins are probably archers and arcane damagedealers now, as they will kill things without getting hit much.


None of these compare to the 4-million-per-toon-per-day that the autocultivation haydays were making. Those days are over, and this is a good thing.

TLDR:
- Starting player moneymaker: Jolly Jones.
- 100+ toon moneymakers: BH100
- Lvl 95 "I just started playing" moneymaker: Not available, make a Jones toon and work for some gear (Or farm Twilight Temple).
- Small drops will offset repair costs - if you can't be bothered to pick them then it's your problem.

Firstly, as I've said before, here on Lost City, we have people with hundreds of billions in coin. That's going to take a while to clear, if people are even willing to actually spend it. And say your hypothetical scenario comes true, and all the coin in PWI is cleared out. What happens then, everyone goes bankrupt? This is just such an extremely short sighted plan.

BH I -- Averages and statistics mean nothing when put into practice. Some people will get 20mil from BH in a week, others will go 2 weeks of nothing but chips and socket stones, and the people getting that 20mil sure as hell aren't going to share it.
Jolly Old Jones -- Why on earth should a new player have to create an entirely separate account just to make money? Shouldn't they be able to cover basic costs on their own?
Autocultivation -- 6 hours. Assuming you're not PKed in that time, or don't die. Also assuming you actually find a good botting spot that isn't already taken. Not everyone in PWI bots, and this hurts people who don't bot more than the ones who do.

Small drops do not offset repair costs, that is the entire problem here. I went and killed Demonic Vexation today. Factoring in tele fees and repair costs, it comes out to about 18k. What did I get in drops? 3k. Mind you, I was soloing this, and it wasn't split among 6 people or anything. And yes, before you ask, I picked up everything. It's habit for me. Before you start saying tele fees aren't necessary, maybe put some thought into the value of other peoples' time. Flying everywhere isn't always viable when 9 other people are waiting for you in a dungeon on the other side of the map.

But I digress.

The problem here is that a player at any level should be able to cover their costs for a dungeon run. Right now, PWI is slowly cutting away our options for making money. People choose different money-making options because some are more suited to their lifestyle and time constraints than others. Not everyone can leave a computer on for botting or catshop overnight. Not everyone can spend 3 hours every day doing JoJ, or even has a character of appropriate level. But most people will have 30 minutes at the most, to do a quick SoT/Aba/EU/AEU/WS BH run, and those people should be able to cover their own repair/tele costs from what they get from the dungeon. Nerfing these drops means that they can't, and that is a problem for the individual. Stop trying to say it's good for other people, or the economy at large, when individual people are getting screwed over.