No DQ coins, gear drops 150 coins or less???

Aubree - Dreamweaver · December 2014

OPKossy wrote: »

My example of people paying for BH Lunars even before there was the guarantee you'd break even at the very least proves your point that people aren't willing to pay for something they know they won't break even on?

Not exactly sure how that one's supposed to work...

I can quote what you said

Originally Posted by OPKossy View Post
People were willing to pay the 500k splits for Lunar BH even before you could get a profit/break even. They didn't like it, but they were willing to do it.

That is in fact breaking even, with your own example. The sale of EoD broke even... Add into that the BH on its own costs, you have no comparison. TO get lunar done, there was a game imposed cost.... No other BH costs to do, with exception of WS with mirage payment.

opkossy · December 2014

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That is in fact breaking even, with your own example. The sale of EoD broke even... Add into that the BH on its own costs, you have no comparison. TO get lunar done, there was a game imposed cost.... No other BH costs to do, with exception of WS with mirage payment.

How... how did you quote my post and not read it still?

I said before there was a guarantee of breaking even. Lunar was a BH that had a fee before the update that brought G16 gears into the mix and people still did it back then. There was a chance of tinders and that was it. Much like how this service you're saying is a chance of making a profit/breaking even on the cards, prior to EoDs existing Lunar was also only a chance of breaking even/making a profit on the mats.

My example supports that people are willing to pay for what isn't a guarantee. You somehow skipped the key word before in the post... which is something I pointed out the first time I replied to you.

Aubree - Dreamweaver · December 2014

OPKossy wrote: »

How... how did you quote my post and not read it still?

I said before there was a guarantee of breaking even. Lunar was a BH that had a fee before the update that brought G16 gears into the mix and people still did it back then. There was a chance of tinders and that was it. Much like how this service you're saying is a chance of making a profit/breaking even on the cards, prior to EoDs existing Lunar was also only a chance of breaking even/making a profit on the mats.

My example supports that people are willing to pay for what isn't a guarantee. You somehow skipped the key word before in the post... which is something I pointed out the first time I replied to you.

I don't think I was here for that. But even then you could split what ever drops. Lunar had an NPC fee of 3m on it's own. The fee HAD to be paid. Do you understand or do you really think people shell out what ever because a player wants it, not that the game demands it?

Better yet go sell some BH and come back and let me know how it works out for you. Like I said, people tried with BH snake.. Failed miserably.

opkossy · December 2014

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't think I was here for that. But even then you could split what ever drops. Lunar had an NPC fee of 3m on it's own. The fee HAD to be paid. Do you understand or do you really think people shell out what ever because a player wants it, not that the game demands it?

Better yet go sell some BH and come back and let me know how it works out for you. Like I said, people tried with BH snake.. Failed miserably.

You're kinda missing my point here. It's not a matter of what's charging the fee. It's the fact that people can and will pay for what's not a guarantee. I'm using what Lunar was in the past as an example because it does it perfectly.

You had a -chance- of breaking even on mats or making a profit from a (at the time, lower chance than it currently is) 2m/5m card. However, both of those chances were not guarantees and there was, quite literally, zero other incentive to run that BH unless you were someone farming Lunar mats already.

So, seeing as people were willing to shell out 500k instead of skipping a BH that would, more often than not, leave them with less than they went in, it's sadly rational that people would pay 250k for someone to do BHs for them if it were to catch on.

As for the comment about selling BHs... what do you think those Lunar squads where someone paid the 3m but kept the drops were doing? Anyone who knows basic math and has a bit of sense realizes you'd get more out of the run by paying a split to share the EoDs/Tinders. Especially once the BH turn in covered the cost. But those runs were still immensely popular on most servers because people really didn't care or weren't thinking things through. b:chuckle

bloodedone87 · December 2014

Dont forget that people were paying for bh Lunar cause they knew they were getting those 500k back from NPC.
I dont think people will pay others 250k to do their Bh.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · December 2014

OPKossy wrote: »

You're kinda missing my point here. It's not a matter of what's charging the fee. It's the fact that people can and will pay for what's not a guarantee. I'm using what Lunar was in the past as an example because it does it perfectly.

You had a -chance- of breaking even on mats or making a profit from a (at the time, lower chance than it currently is) 2m/5m card. However, both of those chances were not guarantees and there was, quite literally, zero other incentive to run that BH unless you were someone farming Lunar mats already.

So, seeing as people were willing to shell out 500k instead of skipping a BH that would, more often than not, leave them with less than they went in, it's sadly rational that people would pay 250k for someone to do BHs for them if it were to catch on.

As for the comment about selling BHs... what do you think those Lunar squads where someone paid the 3m but kept the drops were doing? Anyone who knows basic math and has a bit of sense realizes you'd get more out of the run by paying a split to share the EoDs/Tinders. Especially once the BH turn in covered the cost. But those runs were still immensely popular on most servers because people really didn't care or weren't thinking things through. b:chuckle

I remember those days. I hardly ever did Lunar because the cost involved for me to run it outweighed the rewards by a considerable amount. That was back when squads kinda needed a cleric to save their ***** to.b:surrender

opkossy · December 2014

bloodedone87 wrote: »

Dont forget that people were paying for bh Lunar cause they knew they were getting those 500k back from NPC.
I dont think people will pay others 250k to do their Bh.

I'm talking about before that change. I could also use examples of the chance boxes in cube and packs in general, but those are super obvious ones we should all be aware of by now. b:chuckle

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

I remember those days. I hardly ever did Lunar because the cost involved for me to run it outweighed the rewards by a considerable amount. That was back when squads kinda needed a cleric to save their ***** to.b:surrender

Yeah. Those were dark times for Lunar in general when it comes to the people who had sense. I didn't mind too much because I was able to profit from it regardless since I'd just take all the mats and could merch at a profit on average (didn't get tinders or good mats every run after all) but for a lot of people it plain sucked.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · December 2014

"Only way to get coins is to charge zen"... you do realize that selling gold does not generate coins out of thin air? Those coins come from other players. This update will eventually depress gold prices... not right away, because there are a lot of people sitting on a lot of coins, but with fewer coins being pumped into the system, there should be some deflation.

And dug herbs and crafting mats, even if there are no cats buying them, can be NPCed at a profit. And some classes will still be able to grind profitably (venomancers on anything because they don't get hit much, and clerics on poison mobs because poison doesn't degrade armor are just two examples.) Also, quest rewards are higher than before, so do your quests.

StellaNova - Raging Tide · December 2014

For the earning coins part... Jolly old Jones still works, +700k each day in the 70-80 lvl range, gonna take some DQ picking to reach the same amount of coins - but gonna look forward to fewer bots in base quest areas tho :P

Thrieya - Lost City · December 2014

For all the people who suggest running services, selling stuff to other players, etc, for money... that's not going to work if the other players don't have money either. If someone has coins to give you, that had to come from somewhere. And where do coins come from?

BH... if you're lucky. If you're not lucky, you'll get chips 4 days in a row, and then alternate between sockets and mirages each day, for the week after that.

Jolly Old Jones... if you have the time to go make a bunch of alts and run it every day.

DQ and gear drops were a stable source of easy income for poorer people who didn't have the time or resources to farm/merch effectively, and now it's gone. I did BH, had a 5k repair fee(and I'm lucky because I'm not a melee class that will take and give more hits), and how much did the drops I get sell for? 700 coins or so. Not 7k, not 70k, 700 coins. That's not even counting Illusion Stone teleportation fees, which range from 8k to 30k for 10x BHs.

I'm even luckier, because at least I have income from merching to fall back on, but guess what? My merching depends on other players having the coins to afford what I sell. And with a big source of income for the economy gone, my merching is probably going to.

You say the aim of this is to stabilise the economy and bring gold prices down?

No. It won't.

I have no idea what the hell whoever was in charge of these decisions was thinking, but they weren't thinking enough. Starving the population of coins has never worked in bringing the gold price down, or even keep it stable. Lost City's gold prices are now at 3mil, and they've only been steadily rising ever since the Anniversary packs from 2009. Despite the NPC prices of drops being nerfed time and again, gold prices still go up.

But you know what does work in sending gold prices down? Having people actually buy gold to sell in the AH. And gold doesn't come out of thin air, either. Gold has to be bought with real money. It's a simple question of supply and demand. Gold prices regularly go down whenever PWI rolls out special promotions to encourage people to charge more gold. Charge promotions, not spending promotions.

You want to bring gold prices down? It's simple: Put more gold in the economy. Sure, that means giving more benefits to people who spend, and more specifically, people who spend money to buy gold, and then sell gold for more coins. And mind you, I said, "give people more benefits", not "force them to spend money for gold", which is what starving them of coins is only going to do.

Removing sources of coin in-game for people might hurt the rich folks, yes, but it's only going to hurt the poorer ones even more. As it is, if repair and teleportation fees are going to be higher than drops, then there remains no point to actually playing this damned game.

Jadsia - Lost City · December 2014

OPKossy wrote: »

People were willing to pay the 500k splits for Lunar BH even before you could get a profit/break even. They didn't like it, but they were willing to do it.

And 250k is less than 500k. b:chuckle

I remember getting my first KOS status by starting a price war with BH wines. Yes people used to pay for BHs in one way or another. Nobody made a profit off of low to upper mid level BH runs in the past except those of us who were selling BH wines. It wasn't drops in BH that people wanted it was the exp and they were willing to pay for it. Dropping 500K ona lunar was not much different except more expensive than buying BH wines back in the day. It was acceptible to those willing to do it.

One thing I am not seeing much in this thread is the cube. It's going to get expensive for a lot of broke people.

LOL Thrieya! Haven't seen much of you lately. My catshop is now the Neo dragon leader.

Toliman - Raging Tide · December 2014

Thrieya - Lost City wrote: »

staff

Even all gold buyers can not supply army of bots.

Let describe it for you:

I had farmed DQ for myself (without bot). It was in 2013.

I had small profit, but it had not any influence on economy of pwi.

But army of bots of 2014 has.

It can be seen by comparing of gold prices 2013/2014.

Thrieya - Lost City · December 2014

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

Even all gold buyers can not supply army of bots.

Let describe it for you:

I had farmed DQ for myself (without bot). It was in 2013.

I had small profit, but it had not any influence on economy of pwi.

But army of bots of 2014 has.

It can be seen by comparing of gold prices 2013/2014.

Other factors influence the price of gold. Mainly: how much gold cashoppers are willing to pay real money for, and how much they are going to sell. Botting probably didn't have much to do with that, because there are other things people need coins for, particularly forge manufacturing fees, etc.

My whole problem with this is that they have finally gone entirely too far in their attempts to bring in coin sinks. People don't even have enough coins to cover basic costs such as repairs, tele fees, and maybe pots now. Let's not even count the other things we need coins for, such as the aforementioned manufacturing fees, or learning skills.

Hi Jadsia

Toliman - Raging Tide · December 2014

Thrieya - Lost City wrote: »

Other factors influence the price of gold. Mainly: how much gold cashoppers are willing to pay real money for, and how much they are going to sell. Botting probably didn't have much to do with that, because there are other things people need coins for, particularly forge manufacturing fees, etc.

My whole problem with this is that they have finally gone entirely too far in their attempts to bring in coin sinks. People don't even have enough coins to cover basic costs such as repairs, tele fees, and maybe pots now. Let's not even count the other things we need coins for, such as the aforementioned manufacturing fees, or learning skills.

Hi Jadsia

When I was in game:

I used pots from quests.

Divine quests exactly.

I used dropped from mobs pots too.

For my Wizard as main character since he had high channeling speed (Demon), I bought using Tokens of Luck +5,000 MP pots (50 per 3 of them) just in case if it will be long fight.

I produced (having level 6 of Apothecary) some pots too, including mana restoration pots.

Also about coins for skills ... someone said, that Jolly Old Jones can supply you with coins as other quests too.

It is not enough to buy gold from AH may be, but to pay for skills can be (for lower levels of skills).

And I know, that because of the bots now we have not DQ items with their great price.

I prefer to remove bots from the game instead of DQ items.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · December 2014

Thrieya - Lost City wrote: »

For all the people who suggest running services, selling stuff to other players, etc, for money... that's not going to work if the other players don't have money either. If someone has coins to give you, that had to come from somewhere. And where do coins come from?

BH... if you're lucky. If you're not lucky, you'll get chips 4 days in a row, and then alternate between sockets and mirages each day, for the week after that.

Jolly Old Jones... if you have the time to go make a bunch of alts and run it every day.

DQ and gear drops were a stable source of easy income for poorer people who didn't have the time or resources to farm/merch effectively, and now it's gone. I did BH, had a 5k repair fee(and I'm lucky because I'm not a melee class that will take and give more hits), and how much did the drops I get sell for? 700 coins or so. Not 7k, not 70k, 700 coins. That's not even counting Illusion Stone teleportation fees, which range from 8k to 30k for 10x BHs.

I'm even luckier, because at least I have income from merching to fall back on, but guess what? My merching depends on other players having the coins to afford what I sell. And with a big source of income for the economy gone, my merching is probably going to.

You say the aim of this is to stabilise the economy and bring gold prices down?

No. It won't.

I have no idea what the hell whoever was in charge of these decisions was thinking, but they weren't thinking enough. Starving the population of coins has never worked in bringing the gold price down, or even keep it stable. Lost City's gold prices are now at 3mil, and they've only been steadily rising ever since the Anniversary packs from 2009. Despite the NPC prices of drops being nerfed time and again, gold prices still go up.

But you know what does work in sending gold prices down? Having people actually buy gold to sell in the AH. And gold doesn't come out of thin air, either. Gold has to be bought with real money. It's a simple question of supply and demand. Gold prices regularly go down whenever PWI rolls out special promotions to encourage people to charge more gold. Charge promotions, not spending promotions.

You want to bring gold prices down? It's simple: Put more gold in the economy. Sure, that means giving more benefits to people who spend, and more specifically, people who spend money to buy gold, and then sell gold for more coins. And mind you, I said, "give people more benefits", not "force them to spend money for gold", which is what starving them of coins is only going to do.

Removing sources of coin in-game for people might hurt the rich folks, yes, but it's only going to hurt the poorer ones even more. As it is, if repair and teleportation fees are going to be higher than drops, then there remains no point to actually playing this damned game.

You mention supply and demand. Yes, more gold in the market will increase supply/decrease price, but less coins in the game will decrease demand/decrease price as well.

The earlier DQ price nerfs hardly affected high end players (which, let's face it, has been the majority for quite a while. This one? This will, especially all the auto-cultivators who were overheating the economy, especially on the PVE servers, where gold has been capped at 4 million for some time. And for the poor folks, there are still ways to coin without incurring repairs.

Thrieya - Lost City · December 2014

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

When I was in game:

I used pots from quests.

Divine quests exactly.

I used dropped from mobs pots too.

For my Wizard as main character since he had high channeling speed (Demon), I bought using Tokens of Luck +5,000 MP pots (50 per 3 of them) just in case if it will be long fight.

Also about coins for skills ... someone said, that Jolly Old Jones can supply you with coins as other quests too.

It is not enough to buy gold from AH may be, but to pay for skills can be (for lower levels of skills).

And I know, that because of the bots now we have not DQ items with their great price.

I prefer to remove bots from the game instead of DQ items.

By all means, remove the botting system. Without drops, it is completely useless. I'm more concerned with how this game is treating lower-level, or first-time players who don't have the same resources that older players have accumulated over time, or before the drops were nerfed. Jolly Old Jones doesn't last forever, and it doesn't benefit new 10x who still need money for their gear and skills. Simply covering the cost of lower-level skills does not cut it, people should at least be able to have all lvl. 10 skills.

And with all these drops nerfed, even token pots might be getting too expensive for people to afford now.

What the economy needs is a bigger supply of gold, not stupid, harmful attempts to lower the demand for it, which is what this is doing. More gold will bring down the price of it, without harming new players.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · December 2014

Morai 95 gear is quest reward. As for coins for skills, anyone getting an illusionary stone on a new toon is going to have a quest backlog a mile long to rofflestomp their way through, most of which is going to award coins. So what if they don't have Nirvana G16 gear the first day they hit 100, without a main or a credit card bankrolling them? That isn't what an MMO is supposed to be about.

iw8ing4u · December 2014

they made the coins horde like + + + + +
no1 will farm manuely few hours a day
all the mess was couse the ppl used 2-3 high lvl bots 2 farm 24/7 drops from mobs
all pwi had 2 do is remove them

Thrieya - Lost City · December 2014

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Morai 95 gear is quest reward. As for coins for skills, anyone getting an illusionary stone on a new toon is going to have a quest backlog a mile long to rofflestomp their way through, most of which is going to award coins. So what if they don't have Nirvana G16 gear the first day they hit 100, without a main or a credit card bankrolling them? That isn't what an MMO is supposed to be about.

The Illusionary pill is only going to be free until the 17th of January. What about after then? Rebirths and all the other new content for 10x players have effectively made playtimes much longer. It's great for the older players and all, but having to devote so much extra time to reach the same playing field is bound to be far more intimidating to new players. It's essentially raising the barrier to entry for this game/economy.

And there is a difference between getting NV 3rd the first day they hit 100, and having to farm for 6 months after hitting 10x because they can't afford anything. The point of an MMO is to have fun, and different people have different definitions of fun. Some people are willing and able to farm/grind that long for their stuff, but others don't have that kind of time or money. And everyone should be able to have fun, regardless of how much time or money they have to put into this game.

Nerfing NPC prices, which is basically nerfing coin drops, and trying to reduce the supply of coin in the game, is only going to make people who already have coins, hoard them. They won't buy anything, so other people can't sell stuff or make money. Coins won't circulate, which means the economy stagnates, and that's how we get a recession. Falling prices aren't going to help, because if prices fall, people are just going to hoard their coins more, so they can get even lower prices.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · December 2014

iw8ing4u wrote: »

they made the coins horde like + + + + +
no1 will farm manuely few hours a day
all the mess was couse the ppl used 2-3 high lvl bots 2 farm 24/7 drops from mobs
all pwi had 2 do is remove them

PWI (or to use the proper name, PWE... PWI is just the name of the game, PWE is the company hosting it) has no control over this. Price nerfs, autocultivation, earning time, etc. were China's attempts to fix their own much worse botting problems. PWE has its own problems (including non-enforcement of TOS in many cases) but let's put blame where it's deserved.

Thrieya - Lost City wrote: »

The Illusionary pill is only going to be free until the 17th of January. What about after then? Rebirths and all the other new content for 10x players have effectively made playtimes much longer. It's great for the older players and all, but having to devote so much extra time to reach the same playing field is bound to be far more intimidating to new players. It's essentially raising the barrier to entry for this game/economy.

And there is a difference between getting NV 3rd the first day they hit 100, and having to farm for 6 months after hitting 10x because they can't afford anything. The point of an MMO is to have fun, and different people have different definitions of fun. Some people are willing and able to farm/grind that long for their stuff, but others don't have that kind of time or money. And everyone should be able to have fun, regardless of how much time or money they have to put into this game.

Nerfing NPC prices, which is basically nerfing coin drops, and trying to reduce the supply of coin in the game, is only going to make people who already have coins, hoard them. They won't buy anything, so other people can't sell stuff or make money. Coins won't circulate, which means the economy stagnates, and that's how we get a recession. Falling prices aren't going to help, because if prices fall, people are just going to hoard their coins more, so they can get even lower prices.

The markets will change. Ways of earning coin will change. That's been happening all along, though, and some things will continue to sell as prices fall, just as some thing continued to sell when prices rose.

Mineable mats and herbs have had no price nerf I'm aware of, and incur no repair costs (unless you're fighting monsters or other players for access to them). Even if there are no catshops buying them you can make a profit NPCing them.

I repeat, Morai 95 is free from quests. Morai 100 you can get free as an EU reward. Morai 101 is cheap compared to its alternatives. Cry me a river for the people who can afford $60 for an illusionary stone after January 17 but can't afford to sell gold for coins for their gear and skills, and can't be bothered to do the quests to earn the coins.

Thrieya - Lost City · December 2014

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

PWI (or to use the proper name, PWE... PWI is just the name of the game, PWE is the company hosting it) has no control over this. Price nerfs, autocultivation, earning time, etc. were China's attempts to fix their own much worse botting problems. PWE has its own problems (including non-enforcement of TOS in many cases) but let's put blame where it's deserved.

The markets will change. Ways of earning coin will change. That's been happening all along, though, and some things will continue to sell as prices fall, just as some thing continued to sell when prices rose.

Mineable mats and herbs have had no price nerf I'm aware of, and incur no repair costs (unless you're fighting monsters or other players for access to them). Even if there are no catshops buying them you can make a profit NPCing them.

I repeat, Morai 95 is free from quests. Morai 100 you can get free as an EU reward. Morai 101 is cheap compared to its alternatives. Cry me a river for the people who can afford $60 for an illusionary stone after January 17 but can't afford to sell gold for coins for their gear and skills, and can't be bothered to do the quests to earn the coins.

Firstly, if we can have different forges and R9 gear from China, then we damn well can have different prices for mob drops, and get the auto-culti removed. PWE has problems, yes, but they don't seem to be doing much to fix them.

Secondly, sure, everybody has 12 hours a day to fly around mining mats and herbs. And there are totally an infinite amount of mats and herbs for everybody to get. Nope, no 10-minute respawn time for mines, none at all. Let me know how it is to farm for hours every day and end up with a total of, say, 500k in coins, if you're lucky and someone else isn't already farming them.

Thirdly, when did I ever mention that kind of specific situation, of people who can afford $60 for instant-95, but won't spend more? What about people who can't even afford instant-95? Oh, sure, doing quests is only a question of laziness or impatience. Not like there are people who don't have the time to do all those quests for so little reward, none at all.

So are you saying people who don't have the time or money to get very far in this game, shouldn't be allowed to have fun, or shouldn't play at all? Just because you can spend all your time farming/grinding, doesn't mean every other player has that kind of time or resources.

Eoria - Harshlands · December 2014

I make all my coin by scamming pages off of fsp runs. b:cute

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · December 2014

If you don't have the time to invest in the game, why are you even playing an MMO, which are by design an enormous time sink? If you aren't having fun, go do something else.

And quest rewards are much higher than they used to be. If you haven't leveled a new character from 1 recently, maybe you should try it, then come back with an informed opinion.

And I never said I spent a lot of time farming mats, but I did (unusually) spend a couple hours a day farming in Momaganon and Lothranis on an alt recently, and made several million. And you were the one bringing up the person getting the illusionary stone after January 17, and not having coin for gear or skills. How else was I supposed to interpret that?

(I've yet to see much competition for special mats on RT recently, not just before the patch, not after it, but that latter might be partly because most that would be, are playing around with new classes.)

As for different drop prices... that is something China would have to approve. (PWE has no authority to set drop rates, or make other database changes, on their own.) Maybe PWE just hasn't asked in the right way, but I'm afraid the most we're likely to get is the return of the DQ rewards program in some form.

bloodedone87 · December 2014

I agree with nerfing DQ items to 1 coin. but please bring back the old prices for the gear drop from mobs.
Dont wanna farm for hours to be able to repair my gear.

Toliman - Raging Tide · December 2014

Thrieya - Lost City wrote: »

...

Secondly, sure, everybody has 12 hours a day to fly around mining mats and herbs. And there are totally an infinite amount of mats and herbs for everybody to get. Nope, no 10-minute respawn time for mines, none at all. Let me know how it is to farm for hours every day and end up with a total of, say, 500k in coins, if you're lucky and someone else isn't already farming them.

...

I had finished with up to 250 flowers of each necessary in catshops kind (i.e. price not less than 2k coins each) after long run in Momaganon .

How to stop some very fast players ?

Hmm...

Since my character had AoE skills and had nothing around except mobs, which were far from the usual places with flowers, then I did sometimes following:

gathered crowd of mobs (if it was possible) and killed them.

They sometimes respawned near flowers.

P.S.
It was very rare though.
Mindless business.
Also you can use time, when nobody around (for them night time or time for some event or 2x drop time)
Yet one method:
stay near possible respawn point of the flower.
Stay and wait.
You will be faster than fastest gatherer anyway.

P.P.S.
Each respawn spot has 2-4 or 3-5 flowers of one kind (sometimes you can dig 3 flowers instead of 2).

One my path had about 5-6 respawn spots, it was easy to find.

Evryn - Morai · December 2014

Thrieya - Lost City wrote: »

DQ and gear drops were a stable source of easy income for poorer people who didn't have the time or resources to farm/merch effectively, and now it's gone. I did BH, had a 5k repair fee(and I'm lucky because I'm not a melee class that will take and give more hits), and how much did the drops I get sell for? 700 coins or so. Not 7k, not 70k, 700 coins. That's not even counting Illusion Stone teleportation fees, which range from 8k to 30k for 10x BHs.

I'm even luckier, because at least I have income from merching to fall back on, but guess what? My merching depends on other players having the coins to afford what I sell. And with a big source of income for the economy gone, my merching is probably going to.

Depends on how greedy you are really. My Common Stone cat is selling at roughly 10% markup, whereas most other cats around are selling much higher. Naturally, the business is going to come to mine. Which means I move more goods with a lower margin. But that's fine since it both:
- Helps players by keeping stone costs down a bit
- Helps me make money.
A little altruism in your economics can go a long way towards breaking inflation. Especially for goods that have a bare minimum cost.

You say the aim of this is to stabilise the economy and bring gold prices down? No. It won't.I have no idea what the hell whoever was in charge of these decisions was thinking, but they weren't thinking enough. Starving the population of coins has never worked in bringing the gold price down, or even keep it stable. Lost City's gold prices are now at 3mil, and they've only been steadily rising ever since the Anniversary packs from 2009. Despite the NPC prices of drops being nerfed time and again, gold prices still go up.

Wrong.
Gold prices spiked from 1.8 million to 3 less then a month after autocultivation was introduced. It continued to rise until the absolute maximum and stayed there until present time.
On Morai, gold has come down already, at 3.7 earlier today. I project it will stabilise around 3 million per gold for a while... then fall slowly as people who have a backlog of coins slowly lose them.

But you know what does work in sending gold prices down? Having people actually buy gold to sell in the AH. And gold doesn't come out of thin air, either. Gold has to be bought with real money. It's a simple question of supply and demand. Gold prices regularly go down whenever PWI rolls out special promotions to encourage people to charge more gold. Charge promotions, not spending promotions.

An economy works on supply and demand. The supply of gold has remained constant, slightly declining probably as the playerbase hasn't exactly grown. But the supply of coins took a MAJOR spike since autocultivation and botting became widespread. That spike is now over. And that is no bad thing.

This comes from someone who's probably made in excess of half a billion on botting and has made it a sideproject to test what works best in it. Sure, I'll miss the "F12" income, but looking at the game as a whole? It's for the best.

Repair and ammo costs need to be addressed though, especially on tank armor and APS-based characters.

Thrieya - Lost City · December 2014

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you don't have the time to invest in the game, why are you even playing an MMO, which are by design an enormous time sink? If you aren't having fun, go do something else.

And quest rewards are much higher than they used to be. If you haven't leveled a new character from 1 recently, maybe you should try it, then come back with an informed opinion.

And I never said I spent a lot of time farming mats, but I did (unusually) spend a couple hours a day farming in Momaganon and Lothranis on an alt recently, and made several million. And you were the one bringing up the person getting the illusionary stone after January 17, and not having coin for gear or skills. How else was I supposed to interpret that?

(I've yet to see much competition for special mats on RT recently, not just before the patch, not after it, but that latter might be partly because most that would be, are playing around with new classes.)

As for different drop prices... that is something China would have to approve. (PWE has no authority to set drop rates, or make other database changes, on their own.) Maybe PWE just hasn't asked in the right way, but I'm afraid the most we're likely to get is the return of the DQ rewards program in some form.

Allow me to elaborate: Let's look at this scenario your way. You suggested that, even if all the catshops stopped buying mats and herbs, "you can make a profit NPCing them."

So tell me, how much would you have made, if you'd NPCed those herbs and mats you got, instead of selling them to a catshop? That's what you're suggesting everyone else should do.

And on the topic of free Illusionary Pills, did you just read the first two sentences of that paragraph and completely ignore the rest? I pointed out that playtimes had effectively become much longer thanks to rebirths and new content for 10x players, i.e, that new players have to play for much longer to reach the same playing fields as older players now. Especially if they can't get an Illusionary Pill after January 17th, when it will no longer be free.

But in any case, I think you have completely derailed my own point, which is that the botting system ought to be removed and DQ items and NPC gear ought to have their original NPC prices restored. Nerfing drops doesn't help, and it directly harms players who don't even bot, but only depend on these drops to cover the basic costs of repairs, tele fees, and skills.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · December 2014

That's not going to happen, because China has their own botting problem that predates autocultivation and doesn't care about ours.

So we have to deal with their "solutions", and adapt.

Thrieya - Lost City · December 2014

Shrugging it off doesn't make the problem go away. If they're going to start forcing people to lose coins to play, then there's no point in actually playing now.

And this isn't going to hurt high-end players for a long, long time. I'm not even a particularly rich merchant on my server, and I just sold ~750mil worth of items in the past 2 days. Compared to some of the really high-end merchants, I have nothing. I and all those other merchants can sit on our hundreds of millions, if not billions, of coins, and wait for the gold price to go down, if we want to or have to, while the new players with a million or two at the most can't get enough money to cover those basic costs.

No merchant is going to spend their money on high-priced gold now, only to watch it drop and have the value of their stock plummet. Expecting people to do that is seriously stupid. Nobody's going to spend their coins, if their coins are going to rise in value, which is what will happen here.

So, in effect, this is just the latest in a series of changes that seriously screws over lower-geared players while leaving the high-end players essentially untouched. If they eventually choose to take away Jolly Old Jones and BH as well? There's no "adapting" when all your income options are slowly being taken away.

Evryn - Morai · December 2014

Removing autocultivation will just give the cheaters who use non-autoculti bots the major advantage again. I do not recommend that since PWI has a history of not dealing with people who don't play the game fair. At least this way it's a level playingfield (kinda, those who made billions and now have good gear, have it easy).

No DQ coins, gear drops 150 coins or less???

Comments

Categories