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Eternal question - Sage vs Demon - need thoughts

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  • Ruby_Inferno - HarshlandsRuby_Inferno - Harshlands Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    i have 50ish base 65k buffed 85k 3spark

    will reach 58k base 75k buffed 100k 3sparked when i ll be full mag and triple 105 (i am 105 104 100 atm with hybrid crit build)

    i do love my bids, i would use them anytime anywhere even just for the marvelous animation,
    i was the first that asked a bid buff cause the damage added by the skill itself became really a lot less significant respect as it always have been

    reallistically if you drop that being endgame, vs any other endgame player with endgame elemental resistances, you will hit not much more than any other basic skill

    simply because our base damage value exceeded way more the damage added from the skills, therefore the damage output of each skill we land is 80-90% composed by the base magic damage component solely

    Yeah, I have around 50K buffed magic attack, but I have -Chan stones in my weapon, which is why I have a bit lower magic attack, plus I am trying to get a A set, so I can get more magic attack.

    Well said, and to think that our magic attack can only keep on increasing, the skill damage can only keep getting more insignificant.
  • XXHotXx - MoraiXXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Yeah, I have around 50K buffed magic attack, but I have -Chan stones in my weapon, which is why I have a bit lower magic attack, plus I am trying to get a A set, so I can get more magic attack.

    Well said, and to think that our magic attack can only keep on increasing, the skill damage can only keep getting more insignificant.

    i have crit stones in weapon crit engraves 60 dex and need to restat 10 str aswell
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123524

    i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg
  • Proski - ArchosaurProski - Archosaur Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    wizzzzzzzzzzzzards
  • Sheswes - Heavens TearSheswes - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,216 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ppl still DO THINK that demon is better than sage? b:chuckle seriously?b:chuckleb:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    scruuuuuuuubs killa b:cute Nation War champion b:cool
  • XXHotXx - MoraiXXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ppl still DO THINK that demon is better than sage? b:chuckle seriously?b:chuckleb:chuckle

    have you ever faced deity sins on self buffs?
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123524

    i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg
  • Tazziex - DreamweaverTazziex - Dreamweaver Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Well, yes.

    I remember a while ago i used to play a Wiz class on a privet server, as a Demon, and i gotta say, i loved it.
    It suited my play style and i used the skills that gave demon the advantage.

    Im going to get my Wiz up to endgame just to have some fun.
    Also, unlike some classes i've played, Wiz's are not repetitive ( to me) in what spells i cast.

    One more thing.
    Ruby, nothing against you, but as i was reading this thread and had a look at your Sage vs Demon clip... it made me very sad the way that demon was fighting.
    He was not quick to use stun or freeze spells at all at the start of the match.

    And, your list on page 5 is very one sided, i'm very happy Kitty listed the rest of the spells that have demon's advantage, 'cause, if it's not a demon's advantage, why use it?

    But then again, i'm a PvE player, not a PvP and never done a TW in my time playing PWI.
    Or..
    Are Wizards bad in the new 'Eclipse' ?
  • czechleo2czechleo2 Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Demon Mountain's Seize: Demon version increases the range by 5 meters.[/COLOR]

    Congratulations on landing a mountain from a WHOLE 5 meters extra! or maybe land ANOTHER MOUNTAIN with the Sage proc, LOL - Sage Wins


    ^^

    Ok I find this conversation really interesting lol. b:pleased

    But I gotta say Ruby I hope you were just kidding and joking about this remark above. I understand this statement in a NW situation but TW are you serious? b:chuckle If you think TW wise your statement above is ok makes me almost speechless. To think that you can stun an entire cata group surrounding your crystal including stunning and interrupting any clerics that have setup BB around the Catas, while you are save from getting hit by any other class except for archers is beyond stupid.

    While you hope to even channel your first sage mountain seize you might already have been interrupted, stunned or even killed by any other ranged class.

    So for this skill saying sage wins is plain dumb.

    Also to Sage BIDS. Sometimes people love to live in the past glorious times and forget very fast the hard reality that is called "the presence".

    Sage BIDS "USED" to be the most OP skill in PWI but also "only" because sage wizis were abusing a glitch that would allow them to channel the skill then interrupt right before it hit the target to avoid losing the chi but to have the proc still hit and you could cast another BIDS with the increased crit bonus and wrack entire groups. But since PWI was so smart to fix this glitch it made sage BIDS an OP skill from the past.

    In today's time you guys must pray, light a fire, dance around it in hopes the proc will go off as you otherwise just wasted two sparks for nothing.

    Yes if BIDS proc hits its an amazing skill. But the praises of this skill being so OP diminished when PWI fixed the glitch.

    Also to add you stated a demon wizi throwing from ranged a mountain seize on a single archer in NW. Ok to be frank I don't think that any wizi is so stupid to continue fighting an archer from ranged. Anyone and their children know that archers you fight by getting on top of them reducing their dmg to you. Also it's always funny when archer spend most of the fight trying to run away from you to increase their dmg when you just port right back at them.

    So really everyone and their grandmothers are getting tired of sage wizis trying to drill their opinion in people's heads. At the end of the day chosing demon/sage will "always" come down to people's gameplay. Ruby you might be an incredible sage wizi, but that does not mean that going sage will make everyone else an incredible wizi.

    Again it's everyone individual game play. Ruby might have killed loads of demon wizis while us demon wizis have killed loads of sage wizis. This debate could last an eternity. I would say to whoever is thinking about rolling a wizi, check the skills and see if they fit to your personal style of playing. If you are a very offensive wizard that likes to play at the front of the line you might end of disappointed if you chose the sage path.
  • mizbank23mizbank23 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    We're still having this discussion....

    HAI TEHZSW!
  • Ruby_Inferno - HarshlandsRuby_Inferno - Harshlands Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    czechleo2 wrote: »
    Sage BIDS "USED" to be the most OP skill in PWI but also "only" because sage wizis were abusing a glitch that would allow them to channel the skill then interrupt right before it hit the target to avoid losing the chi but to have the proc still hit and you could cast another BIDS with the increased crit bonus and wrack entire groups. But since PWI was so smart to fix this glitch it made sage BIDS an OP skill from the past.

    Yes if BIDS proc hits its an amazing skill. But the praises of this skill being so OP diminished when PWI fixed the glitch.

    Why did you even bother with this wall of text? I never even mentioned this "glitch" you speak of, Sage proc is downright better, without this "Glitch".
    czechleo2 wrote: »
    n today's time you guys must pray, light a fire, dance around it in hopes the proc will go off as you otherwise just wasted two sparks for nothing.

    Sage procs 50% of the time and Demon procs 20% of the time. 50% is 5 out of 10 times and happens often. Go play a wizard with Sage BIDS before posting fallacious ****.
    czechleo2 wrote: »
    So really everyone and their grandmothers are getting tired of sage wizis trying to drill their opinion in people's heads. At the end of the day chosing demon/sage will "always" come down to people's gameplay. Ruby you might be an incredible sage wizi, but that does not mean that going sage will make everyone else an incredible wizi.

    I posted my opinions, I damn care about what people pick, you can go HA on your wiz for all I care.
    czechleo2 wrote: »
    If you are a very offensive wizard that likes to play at the front of the line you might end of disappointed if you chose the sage path

    Lel #BlankStatement #Please
    ppl still DO THINK that demon is better than sage? b:chuckle seriously?b:chuckleb:chuckle

    Somethings will never change XD
  • czechleo2czechleo2 Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited December 2014

    Sage procs 50% of the time and Demon procs 20% of the time. 50% is 5 out of 10 times and happens often. Go play a wizard with Sage BIDS before posting fallacious ****.

    I could say the same about you and demon stone barrier. While you pick out your calculator and make statements about something you have not even experienced yourself is the same thing. And again no one here is saying demon BIDS is better, I just simply stated that the holy praise of sage BIDS is for today's conditions just overrated.

    I posted my opinions, I damn care about what people pick, you can go HA on your wiz for all I care.

    Posting an opinion would be saying what you like about the sage wizis, period. Not trying to dis the demon wizis with every chance you get. I'm also not saying that I think demon wizis are better than sage wizis. I am simply saying choosing the right path comes down to everyone's gameplay. I don't understand why sage wizis always feel the need to portrait demon wizis as irrelevant.
  • Ruby_Inferno - HarshlandsRuby_Inferno - Harshlands Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    czechleo2 wrote: »
    I could say the same about you and demon stone barrier. While you pick out your calculator and make statements about something you have not even experienced yourself is the same thing. And again no one here is saying demon BIDS is better, I just simply stated that the holy praise of sage BIDS is for today's conditions just overrated.



    Posting an opinion would be saying what you like about the sage wizis, period. Not trying to dis the demon wizis with every chance you get. I'm also not saying that I think demon wizis are better than sage wizis. I am simply saying choosing the right path comes down to everyone's gameplay. I don't understand why sage wizis always feel the need to portrait demon wizis as irrelevant.

    Oh! The irony...."Not experienced", you've got some nerve uttering BS you don't know anything about, hiding behind some no name character. I have been playing my Wizard for 6 years, my main is a Sage R9rr Wizard and I have R9rr+10/12 Demon Wizards as well, what have you got, besides this no-name character? No you cannot say "the same thing" about the Demon Barrier, already explained before. Lel

    The thread compares demon vs sage and that's what I was doing, why don't you say a thing or two regarding the TRASH proc that demon BIDS has instead of bashing Sage BIDS? you don't even use Sage BIDS, Mr. Nobody, it is not overrated, it IS that good.

    Update: Sage MS/BT procs have been fixed with PWI Eclipse, all the more reason to go Sage.

    ^_^


    I said it before, many said it before, Sage is better for PvP. When most of the add ons/procs are DOWNRIGHT better (explained a million times, not happening again), not to mention Sage MS/BT, which are now amazing as hell since the algorithm has been re-written in PWI: Eclipse & they proc frequently now. I am not forcing anyone to go Sage, if you think Demon Barrier tops ALL the other much better procs Sage has, then go Demon, Lol.

    I don't know why I even bothered with you non-name alt anyway lol, I have explained everything & I'm done here, but as Sheswes already aforementioned, people will just believe what they wanna believe, I'm out, Mr. Nobody, take care^^
  • XXHotXx - MoraiXXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    what does it mean that the ulti procs have been fixed?

    you can spam press the ulti hotkey having just 1 spark until it goes off?
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123524

    i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg
  • Ruby_Inferno - HarshlandsRuby_Inferno - Harshlands Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    what does it mean that the ulti procs have been fixed?

    you can spam press the ulti hotkey having just 1 spark until it goes off?

    No, the algorithm has been changed a bit to make it work properly, it was a bit flawed before, I understood it quickly since I am a programmer myself, but I'll explain it in English a simply as possible:

    Before, when you cast an ult, say Sage Blade Tempest, it had a 50% chance to use only 1 spark, now how this actually worked in the code was like this:

    if it DID proc, you would GAIN a spark first and then lose 2 sparks, so basically you lost 1 spark.

    Which introduced an unintentional bug: if you are at maximum sparks, you cannot gain more sparks, thus even if it proced, you still lost 2 sparks.


    New algorithm:

    if Current sparks = Maximum

    and IF it procs =>

    Then,

    You DON'T Gain a spark first, instead you lose 2 sparks & THEN gain a spark, resolving that issue.


    Just a sequential problem that was there in the code, which is now fixed :)


    That's all, its really epic now, I spam my ults alot more often and I'm like....woot still got sparks xD



    Cheers! b:victory
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