Sage or Demon Opinions

zuzanny · November 2014

Before I get yelled at here and told there are numerous guides out there I want to say that I am only asking opinions. I have read the wonderful guide that was put into an excel spreadsheet and all the skills there tell me 2 things 1. what skills are important and 2. Sage and demon both have their pluses and minuses.

On the Heavens Tear server what are the support clerics mostly taking? I am pumping 2 things. Magic and Vit Magic being the higher of the 2. ( about 400 magic to whatever is left for vit)

Also being a new person here (no alts) *omg!! fresh meat!! oh my lol* what is the meaning of "channeling time" I saw that a lot in the Sage demon excel sheet.

I would like to take a hit or 2 so I am pumping hp to about 2k. But my main goal is helping and healing my fellow squad members.

Also....I read that there is a class in pwi (forgot the class) that also has healing skills...So my question to you is: is a cleric really needed? I would like to no this before I invest to many lvls in her.

Thank you in advance for reading...I just want to no allllllllll about this game it seems like an awesome game

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · November 2014

zuzanny wrote: »

Before I get yelled at here and told there are numerous guides out there I want to say that I am only asking opinions. I have read the wonderful guide that was put into an excel spreadsheet and all the skills there tell me 2 things 1. what skills are important and 2. Sage and demon both have their pluses and minuses.

On the Heavens Tear server what are the support clerics mostly taking? I am pumping 2 things. Magic and Vit Magic being the higher of the 2. ( about 400 magic to whatever is left for vit)

Also being a new person here (no alts) *omg!! fresh meat!! oh my lol* what is the meaning of "channeling time" I saw that a lot in the Sage demon excel sheet.

The blue skill bar, time spent to fill the bar is channeling time. Reduced channeling time means faster pew-pew.

zuzanny wrote: »

Also....I read that there is a class in pwi (forgot the class) that also has healing skills...So my question to you is: is a cleric really needed? I would like to no this before I invest to many lvls in her.

Mystic. Yes Clerics are still needed.

Desdi - Sanctuary · November 2014

Both Sage and Demon can offer great support...they just do it in different ways. That's really all there is to it and that's what most people are going to tell you.

- Sage Ironheart heals more HP than Demon Ironheart but Demon one heals some MP too which is great for LA/HA classes with a low MP pool. (Note: Both skills heal more than regular level 10 IH).

- Sage single target buffs like Vanguard Spirit can give your team mate additional help, even when pulling mobs as it doesn't generate aggro. Demon ones have a chance to give chi which can help your team mate build some chi quickly. Both Sage and Demon have a buff that restores MP.

- Sage Purify is faster and has a shorter cooldown so you can Purify faster/more often but the Demon one doesn't consume chi which is good too. Imagine that you just died, stood up and have to Purify the tank immediately and your genie is still on charging, there's no Venomancer in squad..so not requiring chi has its benefits! (Granted Sages have Master Li's for free 50chi but that one has a cooldown too).

- Sage Revive has a longer range which can be nice but Demon has a shorter channeling time so you can Revive fast! That can make the difference and prevent a squad wipe!
(With high channeling gear and Sage's channeling buff, Sage Revive can be fast too.. however that requires some rather expensive gear as well as the ability to swap gear really fast from regular to channeling to regular again because channeling gear makes you really squishy = bad defences).

These are just a few examples. It's a matter of personal choice and preference.

As for myself, I have both Sage and Demon Clerics... which one do I prefer? I have no preference honestly. I only play the Demon one more because she's on a different account. As my Sage Cleric is on the same account as my main character, I rarely get to use her nowadays.

Bezdna - Dreamweaver · November 2014

Fresh meat? Someone said fresh meat? Dibs!! Come here delicious little newbie, I EAT YOU OMNOMNOM

I played both sage and demon cleric, and a mystic, and my experience is that sage cleric is the steadiest most reliable option for support.

A sage cleric can duplicate everything a demon cleric can do. The opposite is not true, however - sages get some boosts demons can't mimic.

A mystic is very cool and definitely offers different support options, but it's very frustrating to play for me. On a cleric, if you want to heal, you cast a spell. If you want a stronger heal, you use a different spell. If you want to debuff, you cast a spell... You get the gist of it... On a mystic you have heals, you have plants, you have pets. Pets have multiple skills. Then you have other skills that modify the effect of your plants and pets, etc etc. Altogether, mystics can heal, debuff, and DD just as well as clerics, but their playstyle is completely different. It's got to be a matter of preference.

Keisari - Raging Tide · November 2014

Sage or demon? Kitty gives her objective(though slightly demon-biased) analysis on pros of both cultis.

Sage:
-extra P. def. buff on Vanguard Spirit
-channeling boost on Magic Shell
-stronger IH and Plume Shot
-longer range Revive
-lesser interval between Purifys
-larger area Razor Feathers and CHB
-longer lasting seals and debuffs
-33% stronger Plume Shell
-Chance for saving chi on Tempest, SK and more chi from SoR and WT
-Faster WS

Demon
-Stronger CHB, Great Cyclone
-Fast chi regeneration(WS, Magic Shell, Vanguard)
-Less chi used(none on Purify, half less on Plume Shell)
-Faster Revive
-Mana recovery procs(IH, recovery buff, BotP)
-lesser interval on SK, Plume Shot and Razor Feathers
-Freeze-proc on Tempest
-defence-proc on SoR
-Metal res. debuff on Wield Thunder
-extra M. attack buff on Spirit's Gift

In general sage ish slightly more defensive when demon's more offensive. Both cultis share many pros on various skills.

Sage Vanguard pretty much negates demon SoR's p. def. buff. Vanguard can be used in more contexts, but p. def. buff integrated on SoR might make a vital difference on tank's survival since most clerics use SoR mostly for emergency heal due to its heavy mana cost. Sage Spirit's Gift negates demon Celestial Guardian's manaheal.

Sage Magic Shell ish almost equal to demon spark's channeling boost. It loses most of it's profit, however, on having to be cast separately. It costs no chi though, so it's useful to boost other stuffs.

Sage can save chi on nukes, but demon saves it on more often used stuff like Puri and Plume Shell. Sage can use Sparked Tempest -> Siren's Kiss combo if Tempest procs, which ish unavailable for demons without apoth. But. Demon, on the other hand, can use Plume Shell before sparked Tempest if enough str(24 str or more) on genie. Sage would be forced to use heals or Master Li's to get enough chi for that.

Sage Purify helps on bosses that debuff often or many players at once. But it makes cleric run out of chi at an extreme speed. Demon doesn't puri as often, but demon can keep purifying after the time sage would have already ran out of chi making demon puri more sustainable.

Sage Revive might be nice if a squadmate has died in a problematicly far range. But Kitty thinks demon Revive owns sage Revive in intense battles where boss likes to kill squadmates a lot. Faster Revive also reduces the time that tank ish without heals during Revive. Squadwipe or success may depend on that.

Demon's seals have quite useless procs while sage can keep enemy almost perma-locked.

Demon's offensive capabilities are in it's own class. Demon can first ChromaSeal to make opponent stand still, Elemental Seal, get extra power boost from Spirit's Gift, spark for more power and faster channeling, Wield Thunder for metal debuff and nuke the defenceless enemy with machine-gun like Primal Great Cyclone (which ish more powerful than sage version, btw).
Demon cleric can also be useful AoE-DD with low-cooldown Siren's Kiss and Razor Feathers. Demon Tempest's Freeze-proc ish also useful to keep mobsters away from nugget.

Zaccy - Raging Tide · November 2014

Everyone seems to forget Sage/Demon Metal Mastery; if your magic attack is high enough, Sage Primal Great Cyclone will hit more than Demon - which is so easy to do with war avatar cards now too

(and yes I know demon has crit rate but I hate unreliability)

Keisari - Raging Tide wrote: »

Demon's seals have quite useless procs while sage can keep enemy almost perma-locked.

As Sage... It's rather fun to make someone unable to do a darn thing

Chrisbank - Raging Tide · November 2014

Honestly, the culti path choices today are almost unimportant. Noone care if your sage or demon anymore.unlike.it was a few years back
Being said, I choose demon first for my cleric then switched to sage a year ago.
Both are great. I loved demon. I love sage.
I really didnt notice any huge differences. It really comes down to you. If you want a bit more power, go demon
More support go sage. I wanted power when i first choose then switched to sage for support based play style for tw.

Viktorian - Archosaur · November 2014

Where in hell did you find guides???
I checked all over forums, even did a search for "cleric guide"
got nothing.
I had to ask MULTIPLE clerics over TWO SERVERS.
Thank you to Fallen_Faith, Saiorexey, SerahLight, and Miieu for the information you gave me

Evryn - Morai · November 2014

zuzanny wrote: »

On the Heavens Tear server what are the support clerics mostly taking? I am pumping 2 things. Magic and Vit Magic being the higher of the 2. ( about 400 magic to whatever is left for vit)

That's a good thing to do before rebirth. Once you hit level 100 and get up to G15 gear or better, with half decent refines (+5 or so), statting vit doesn't really help you much anymore. I'd say go for a full magic build after your first rebirth. Before then, statting some vit gives a cleric more survivability, which is a good thing for a new cleric.

Also being a new person here (no alts) *omg!! fresh meat!! oh my lol* what is the meaning of "channeling time" I saw that a lot in the Sage demon excel sheet.

All class abilities that are not of the "instant" type, have a channeling and casting time. You can examine these times in the spell descriptions (although I don't fully trust those values, they seem off for certain spells like the cleric pre-rebirth mass buffs). During channeling time, a spell can be interrupted if you get hit. During casting time, a spell can not be interrupted or canceled, you're committed to the effect at that point (usually cast times are lower then channel times).

I would like to take a hit or 2 so I am pumping hp to about 2k. But my main goal is helping and healing my fellow squad members.

Sounds like a good plan. Make sure you level up Iron Heart, it's the main spell used for healing whoever is trying to take all damage. Get "Regeneration Aura" (more commonly known as Blue Bubble or BB) as soon as possible, since that's what you'll use at most boss-fights. And get Purify leveled up, as you'll be using that a lot on bosses with powerful curses, such as the last two in Wraithgate, and Drake/Gluttonix in Valley of Disaster.

Also....I read that there is a class in pwi (forgot the class) that also has healing skills...So my question to you is: is a cleric really needed? I would like to no this before I invest to many lvls in her.

The Mystic can heal as well, but it doesn't have powerful over-time heals like the cleric does (they have Falling Petals, but that spell can't be stacked multiple times for an amplified effect). It also doesn't have the regeneration aura which reduces all damage taken by 50%. And it does not have a reliable debuff removal spell. Mystics are considered backup healers generally, clerics are more suited for the job.

Beyond that, the Wizard has a single target healing spell but it has such a long channel time that it's not really useful in combat. The Psychic has a massheal-over-time that's useful, but has a long cooldown.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · November 2014

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »

Mystic. Yes Clerics are still needed.

Wanted yes, needed no.

zuzanny wrote: »

Before I get yelled at here and told there are numerous guides out there I want to say that I am only asking opinions. I have read the wonderful guide that was put into an excel spreadsheet and all the skills there tell me 2 things 1. what skills are important and 2. Sage and demon both have their pluses and minuses.

On the Heavens Tear server what are the support clerics mostly taking? I am pumping 2 things. Magic and Vit Magic being the higher of the 2. ( about 400 magic to whatever is left for vit)

Also being a new person here (no alts) *omg!! fresh meat!! oh my lol* what is the meaning of "channeling time" I saw that a lot in the Sage demon excel sheet.

I would like to take a hit or 2 so I am pumping hp to about 2k. But my main goal is helping and healing my fellow squad members.

Also....I read that there is a class in pwi (forgot the class) that also has healing skills...So my question to you is: is a cleric really needed? I would like to no this before I invest to many lvls in her.

Thank you in advance for reading...I just want to no allllllllll about this game it seems like an awesome game

First of all you need to decide what interest you in game, if it's only PVE then sage or demon doesn't matter, if you know your skills and know how to play then you will be fine no matter your culti, there's no culti that will make you better and any PVE in game could be done by a cleric with level 10 skills.

Oh and don't listen to people saying support=sage offensive=demon, the best clerics I know are support clerics and are demon, I was support cleric and I was demon, unless you plan to be a metal mage you will be support no matter what cause cleric is support and culti have nothing to do in that.

I played cleric for 5 years, I had a sage and demon cleric and did prefer demon.

Often when sage and demon cleric argue about which cultivation is the best it about a few skills.

Revive: Sage have a 40 meters range and demon half channeling, often sage clerics will claim that it's useful to be able to revive someone at 40 meters, well if the person died at 40 meters of you that mean he was out of range of your heals, which mean if you revive you cannot heal the person cause he's too far, so the person will die again so what's the point to be able to revive someone that is out of your range of heal (and buffs)? But demon you can revive fast which mean that you have less chance of someone else dying as you revive and that the person you revive is in range to get heals and buffs.

I personally hate sage revive, but mainly cause I played demon and when you play both cultivations you realize how slow sage revive is and also in TW it's frustrating cause you can start to revive someone and a demon come and ninja you before you are even done channeling and you just wasted a 6 seconds for nothing.

Ironheart: I think everyone will agree that it's one of the most important heal, that sage or demon know, often sage will claim sage IH is better cause it heal more, go around asking barb and bm about it and they will tell you that they don't notice a difference, IH is a overtime heal and a lot of people said that they couldn't tell if a sage cleric have a level 10 or 11 IH cause they don't see a difference, but what they do notice is the demon IH since it give them mp and that they like.

I'm not saying IH sage is bad, but from a point of view from someone getting healed by a cleric they don't see the difference from a level 10 IH or sage IH, while they do like the mp they get from demon. Personally I never felt like sage was healing more than demon, it's not something you can really notice on a overtime heal.

Purify: Sage purify is faster and demon purify cost no chi, I do love sage purify, but also hate it, you purify so fast that you use it all the time and get out of chi pretty fast, no chi = no purify and no plume shell which in PVP/TW is the most important, on sage I often needed to make the choice to either plume shell or purify, but couldn't do both cause not enough chi and using a chi pot on cleric sucks cause that could be a defense pot that would safe your life. On demon as someone did mention if you die and ress you don't have chi, but you can purify right away if someone need it and purify isn't a long skill to start with so it's not like revive where it does make a difference, I love sage purify, but it is a chi consumer and on demon I never felt like I wish it was faster.

So on that one I prefer demon for the fact that it requisite no chi to use.

Plume shell: Sage give more defense and demon cost half chi, sage isn't bad if we compare those 2, but in a overall it's a chi cost more to add on the list for sage and in PVP/TW plume shell can really make a difference in your survivability so it sucks when you are sage and don't have enough chi to use it cause you needed to purify many targets or something like that, demon maybe have 5% less, but the cost of chi is so low that using it won't cost you the chance to be able to purify.

So for that skill alone sage is better compare to the demon one, but with other skills like purify and in combat I prefer demon cause on sage often after using plume shell I'm out of chi and cannot purify which can cost the life of my teammate (or mine if I decide to purify him instead of plume shell myself). So I prefer to have 5% less p.def when using that skill than having to chose between saving my teammate or saving myself.

Sage clerics have Vanguard spirit that give a bonus of 100% p.def for a few seconds, demon have it on the heal Stream of rejuvenation (SOR), Vanguard have a faster chan, but SOR does heal + the p.def bonus, so I would not say that sage is better than demon, but they both have an advantage, sage is faster to give the p.def bonus while demon heal at the same time they give it.

So that's personally why I prefer demon, but this is from my experience which include TW, if you just plan to PVE then it's not a big deal just chose w/e cultivation you prefer no matter what people say.

Chrisbank - Raging Tide · November 2014

Honestly though, as a demon i found it rather impractical to use Sor for the phys def gain. With the long channeling i basically always got interrupted or died b4 it went off. Its nice on paper to say its usable but in game, i rarely see it used with success. Perhaps i timed it bad but after switching to sage there is no comparison. Sage wins this one by a lot. I prefer demon in mostly everything but this. I solely switched for sage vanguard even when i like demon more for.the rest of the skills.

opkossy · November 2014

Chrisbank - Raging Tide wrote: »

Honestly though, as a demon i found it rather impractical to use Sor for the phys def gain. With the long channeling i basically always got interrupted or died b4 it went off. Its nice on paper to say its usable but in game, i rarely see it used with success. Perhaps i timed it bad but after switching to sage there is no comparison. Sage wins this one by a lot. I prefer demon in mostly everything but this. I solely switched for sage vanguard even when i like demon more for.the rest of the skills.

Are you talking PvE or PvP?

For PvP you're completely right and the reason people don't use SoR in general is the massive channeling time.

For PvE, it's pretty easy. Just open with stream and then re-apply occasionally since you should have a steady stream of healing already going to fill the time it takes while you channel.

Chrisbank - Raging Tide · November 2014

Both. More so pvp since thats where i really needed the physical def gain to help survive archers and sins apart from plume shell.
I only use Sor (sage) for chi gain combined with sage magic shell for the-chan.
PvE: i think the channel time would cut deeply into keeping the def proc up 100% of the time. I stopped using it altogether when i was demon since it failed me most the time. Just found an extra ih did more to save me than sor would.

opkossy · November 2014

Nah. The channel actually isn't that tough in general PvE unless you're in an incredibly hectic situation. And even then at times it's more useful to risk a squad member dying while you channel it than attempting to save everyone.

Of course, when you have a good enough weapon, you likely won't need to bother with stream because IHs will be more than good enough and will likely leave you room to DD/debuff as well. It really depends a lot on what you're doing, what your squad is like, and what your gear is like.

I personally prefer sage vanguard for emergencies at lower gears though. When in R9, on the other hand, I don't really use vanguard OR stream like... ever because I don't need either.

Ahira - Lost City · November 2014

Using SOR becomes more viable at endgame because you have alot of channeling bonuses by then. In tw for example when supporting a cata barb who's taking massive damage, SOR is often the best heal to use.

My opinion on the demon/sage thing is that both culti's are really balanced so I dont think you will regret going either way.

The sage pdef buff is incredibly useful though- especially in 1v1 situations. I'm demon and I prefer it with my support/assisting play style, but the pdef buff is the only thing that would tempt me to sage. =Z

chase1435 · November 2014

I only tried using it while soloing PV on the pulls xD since I really never "needed" it outside PV in PvE. Since Ih's even at lower levels do the trick. i use the term "needed" losely. I mean 100% base physical def gain is nice regardless if its needed or not when taking any physical damage.

Also, Sage vangaurd did tempt me to switch to sage. I do not really regret leaving my demon culti for it but i think in the same respect. I, more than likely, over value its actual worth in all actuality. I made it worth giving up more than one demon skill i liked to gain it. I honestly, use sage vanguard 24/7 when taking physical damage.

Also, completely off topic, I have been peering into other classes forums. I am impressed by the clerics forum. What i mean is that most other classes are still bickering to the end of the earth for which is better sage or demon for their respective class where as cleric have settled into 2014 nicely where we realize it doesn't matter anymore really and it really comes down to preferences, play styles, and a select few skills you really love. Just thought, i would give the cleric brotherhood a pat on the back for coming this far

so cheers~

Sylvae - Sanctuary · December 2014

A big part of the reason it isn't as argued whether demon or sage is better, is how the power creep has rendered a good amount of the differences more negligible than they were before. Demon SG used to be a huge boost in over-all damage, and still is at lower gear; but with Re-awakening and +100 magic from gear, it does a lot less effect over-all than it did.

All static numbers for bonus damage matter a lot less, since the bonus is so dinky compared to the amount we pump out from weapon damage. And that was before nuema and cards, now bringing up static number boost for damage or healing should get a pat on the head, really. The old SoR vs Vanguard is mostly rendered moot, since BP and over-gear in PvE makes it not really matter outside solo PV runs. And in PvP, unless the server has a good mix, it's usually a matter of over-gear vs. under-gear. So it doesn't matter as much when gear had the power levels a lot tighter.

That coupled with sage's chi gain being neutralized by demon's cheaper chi costs for two majorly used skills, means the over-all effect is not nearly as noticeable as it is for other classes. There was a lot of debate on which was better the first year or two, so it's more that expansions neutralized the base arguments, as opposed to cleric players being above the bickering.

Sage or Demon Opinions

Comments

Categories