Stop... Sucking...

Viktorian - Archosaur · December 2014

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

This is nonsense. Let's also ask venos if they are going to debuff (going foxform is 10sec of precious DD time lost!), barbs to tank (they can dd in human too!), BMs to dragon (came directly from 2009 with fists) etc. Reborn 100+ player is supposed to be able to estimate the situation quickly and decide if others can do without his support.

Yup, especially FS. If he can solo, he can run alone. I still see a lot of squishies in squads who do need heal. Decided to go in squads - take care of squadmates.

Id like to be asked once in a while b:pleased

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Professional Cleric that Lives on Dreamweaver.

FAIR WARNING: I wrote an essay by accident. Kind of sleepy, so it may be a bit distorted to.

Similar to some, I also rarely attack in instances. I only do so if someone else has assumed the healing role, and the squad wants me to DD. Even then, I'm still keeping an eye out for buffs, and debuffs, whilst debuffing the boss myself via Mark of weakness, Elemental Seal, Dimensional Seal, Magical Shackles, and Extreme Poison, while DD'ing hard. I even inform the squad that I'll try to time my extreme poison with their sparks. (Love using it at the same time that a blademaster HF's.) While I'm doing this though, I am fully aware that I am a healer, and as a healer, I am ready to come out of UV mode at any given moment, and assist healing, or take over the healing role if I see a situation arise. My primary goal in a squad isn't to DD, nor debuff. It's to keep people from dying, and losing hp. So to this end, even with multiple clerics in a squad, I am more than willing to take over the healing role, and handle it from there.

Communication is vital to a squad. If a cleric isn't going to heal, I'd prefer for them to say. Clerics can DD, but if a squad says LF Cleric, they don't mean that they're looking for cleric DD. They mean that they're looking for cleric healing/buffing/purifying.

Regarding Charm tick, I personally try hard to avoid charm ticks. I don't like it when a squad member has their charm tick. Simultaneously, I feel as though it's not the end of the world if they do. I view the charm to be a failsafe, and it is serving it's purpose. It is rare that I have charm ticks, but it does happen. I do challenge myself to avoid charmticks, but if a person does get them, it's not always the cleric to blame. Sometimes it's the situation. I could be channeling Chromatic Healing Beam after a boss AOE'd, and spam healing another DD that stole aggro, when aggro switched again so I have to now save someone else, and you've reclaimed aggro, and so your charm ticked. I don't have high channeling, opting instead to go for defense. I probably have anywhere in the range of -18 to -24 channeling than most other clerics, so it's not uncommon for them to get spells off before I can, and I am more at risk of being interrupted than others. Sometimes I simply might not be fast enough, or aggro ping pong might have resulted in someone with a charm tick. I'd rather have someone get a charm tick than a squad member die, and sometimes the cleric has to make that call. If you're charmed, I will always pick the squad member that I feel might die, and let the charm heal you back to full. I even make this call for myself. Take the charm tick from some random mobs myself, and heal the player who likely won't survive based on the situation.

I will admit that I do get irritated when squads say Cleric HEAL, Cleric purify this boss, Cleric IH. I'm like, I know my job, trust me. I have you covered. You're in good hands now. I don't tell you how to pull, please don't tell me how to heal. (Unless I'm inexperienced in a dungeon, then I'll ask for it.) I realized over time that most people don't do it to be rude towards me. They're doing it because they're seen a great many clerics that failed to do these things. Being a cleric myself, I always assumed the role of Primary healer, so I hadn't been greatly exposed to some of the DD clerics that people spoke of.

However, one of my friends took me on a few runs in WS where she already had a cleric, and wanted me to come along because she feels safer with me. From the time after the pavilions to end of the run, I couldn't believe it. Tempest at every turn. Running nearly to the front of the squad, and trying to DD harder than my friend who was tanking. Got to the point that we'd reach the boss, and I'd pm my friend saying "I bet she'll cast tempest."....she sure enough did, and I've been exposed to some other clerics that DD hard since then, and have been told nightmare stories about clerics. In truth, hearing some of the nightmare stories about clerics was one of the driving forces for me to create the cleric guide that I did. It was this WS that also caused me not to be so irritated when people would tell me to heal....they've been exposed to nightmare clerics, so as a pose to getting as irritated, I joke about it, and tell them to trust me, and see how good of a cleric I really am. Some are hesitant about it, but it tends to lighten the mood. They start trusting good clerics again, and I'm not being told what to do. So we're all happy. Lol. I tend to pm them after a run, asking how good I did. I tend to get friend requests afterwards, so that says something for myself, but I've seen how bad some clerics can be.

That said, I sympathize with you. I personally feel as though if I let a barb with 30k hp take a charm tick, I somehow let 15k hp escape said barb without my heals, so I need to re-evaluate how I'm handling this situation. It's not always the cleric's fault that it happened,...it's not even my job to save a person from a charm tick. It's more of a personal goal, but even then I still try to improve.

I feel as though I'm rambling, so I'll stop here. But those are my thoughts on it.

wayyyy too damn long.

PWI music video cuz.... reasons
Click Me

Liveena - Heavens Tear wrote: »

All I can say is not easy being a cleric, especially as a solo cleric in a 10 man squad.
Most time someone got their charm ticked is when said person is out of my heal range and I was busy healing someone else.

Hardest job is being a solo cleric in FSP at toad boss where I must throw axes, puri debuff, heal tank, aoe heals, and buffing those who walked back from entrance b:surrender

Why are you throwing axes in the first place? Ive been in alot of squads and most squads get someone else to do axes (probably cuz of that ele immune thing)(dont mention plume shot, most people dont know)

Ahmas - Archosaur wrote: »

every single rrr9 cleric ive ever met are fat headed and fancy theirselves soloers, tankers, and dds, and refuse to heal. they, themselves also die and get mad when its their own fault lols

damn girl. who have you been meeting? most rrr9 clerics in FSP i meet on our server do one of two things
1 talk so little the only reason i know they are there is cuz theyre healing OR
2 Talk so much i wonder how they are healing
then you have the oddballs like Saiorexey or SerahLight who will just tank everything.

sjampie wrote: »

Was nice to read this thread.

First a short reply (for all people who are too lazy to read):
Try to communicate BEFORE running an instance.

Now the long version of my reply:
I think it is a mistake made by many to just depend on clerics since we can use charms, can use HP pots or other "mindblowing" stuff while running an instance. If we choose to keep the charm we shouldn't use it, right? Sure there are people who are 'virtually crying' - or are f#cking pissed in RL - if they loose EXP when getting killed (on RT server that is) but PWI is just a game. The EXP will come back some day - if we just work for it. But if we're lucky no EXP will be lost (depending on level/skills from cleric).

Before running an instance it's a good thing to ask if a cleric is coming to heal or fight. Also we should know that we don't need to pm clerics during a run since they know what they're doing (or at least should know at the point they run their first instance; yup - the cave near Plume). Before starting to tickle a boss - yeah, they will hate you for that - we can ask a cleric to IH spam while watching the HP from other squadmembers AND ask other squadmembers to keep tracking their own HP. Not by using a pm but by using the normal chatfunction. Also keep in mind many RB clerics can solo instances. So, if you have anyone like that in your squad you should relax, have a drink (Hell, you can even have virtual sex with a vacuumcleaner like the leader of Garuda faction does, lol) and watch the cleric doing the job. Communication does it all: talk before running an instance. Don't want to do it? Well, most of us are members of a 'helpful' faction so can wait until factionmembers are ready to help.

So, what am I doing when playing with my cleric? I made a personal rule: people who start sending pm's telling me what to do while running an instance like a moron won't recieve any buffs. I could even leave the squad if I don't need anything in the instance! (only happened once, about 2 years ago). If people ask for IH spamming BEFORE they attack a boss they will recieve it while I watch other members.

thank you for the short version
another PWI music video cuz.... more reasons
Click Here

opkossy · December 2014

I basically agree with Serenity. If people are burning charm because a cleric is refusing to heal (like the case of the OP), the cleric's doing it wrong.

Charms are there to help you. Not to tank the instance for you. If I'm needlessly charm tanking with a cleric in the squad then the cleric's gonna get booted because they can clearly be replaced by a better DD. If I'm charm tanking because **** got real and everyone's getting killed and whatever while the cleric's doing their best to get people alive and buffed up again, it's a different matter and the cleric's not at fault.

Zoldi - Morai · December 2014

OPKossy wrote: »

If I'm needlessly charm tanking with a cleric in the squad then the cleric's gonna get booted because they can clearly be replaced by a better DD.

Clerics can be good DD though. But I agree with you on the main idea. To make it "easier" let's just say that if nobody wants to heal the tank, then the tank can just refuse to tank. This is his own right not to charm tanking.
And actually the problem is in people making squads asking for Clerics/Barbs while they should ask for healer/tank.

Viktorian - Archosaur · December 2014

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

Clerics can be good DD though. But I agree with you on the main idea. To make it "easier" let's just say that if nobody wants to heal the tank, then the tank can just refuse to tank. This is his own right not to charm tanking.
And actually the problem is in people making squads asking for Clerics/Barbs while they should ask for healer/tank.

I think that the Cleric/Barb thing is to protect people from Nab Mystics. Whle there are quite a few good mystics, there are even more bad ones. Honestly the same rings true for clerics, but with clerics its easier to tell them what to do if they dont know. IH this person, purify that person when u see that buff, rez dead people, etc. These are things the average player can tell struggling clerics to point them in the right direction. Mystics are harder to explain how to heal. Most people can't tell you what mystic skills are called. In addition that is the 25(?)% chance of a purify, and most want a 100% chance at it. Who truly wants to rely on a chance?

Colum - Raging Tide · December 2014

Gonna put my opinion here as well...

It is understandable, that charm ticks happen in instances. Sometimes occasional ticks cannot be avoided by the cleric nor the charmed player; accidents happen to everyone. At this point no one should put the blame on the cleric.

Then the argumen people liked to use about this case, "lol you use charm in PvE what a NOOOOOOB!"
... Really?
It's like people forget that you can equip charms for NW, TW, 1vs1/group PVP and such activities, have still lot of leftover in their charm and want to save as much of it as possible for the next PVP activities.

In lolga's case (I saw the comments in world chat so I'll base my opinion on that and trust their word) the cleric was allowing him to have several charm ticks, we're talking about more than 1-2, at least that's what I gathered from the wc drama. In this case, it is indeed on the cleric's responsibility. When someone is entirely relying on their charm/autopot, healer is slacking and concentrating on something else. Lag is of course a valid excuse but if you see the cleric DDing instead...

I also saw some people on wc saying that clerics are no slaves... Really? Asking them to try and save people's charms by focusing on the healing side a bit more is not enslaving them. Part of me wonders why some clerics even roll a cleric in the first place - if you're going to be a full metal mage, it would be fair to let other people know.

TL;DR: A good cleric keeps you alive, a great cleric saves your charm.

Viktorian - Archosaur · December 2014

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Gonna put my opinion here as well...

It is understandable, that charm ticks happen in instances. Sometimes occasional ticks cannot be avoided by the cleric nor the charmed player; accidents happen to everyone. At this point no one should put the blame on the cleric.

Then the argumen people liked to use about this case, "lol you use charm in PvE what a NOOOOOOB!"
... Really?
It's like people forget that you can equip charms for NW, TW, 1vs1/group PVP and such activities, have still lot of leftover in their charm and want to save as much of it as possible for the next PVP activities.

In lolga's case (I saw the comments in world chat so I'll base my opinion on that and trust their word) the cleric was allowing him to have several charm ticks, we're talking about more than 1-2, at least that's what I gathered from the wc drama. In this case, it is indeed on the cleric's responsibility. When someone is entirely relying on their charm/autopot, healer is slacking and concentrating on something else. Lag is of course a valid excuse but if you see the cleric DDing instead...

I also saw some people on wc saying that clerics are no slaves... Really? Asking them to try and save people's charms by focusing on the healing side a bit more is not enslaving them. Part of me wonders why some clerics even roll a cleric in the first place - if you're going to be a full metal mage, it would be fair to let other people know.

TL;DR: A good cleric keeps you alive, a great cleric saves your charm.

i rolled a cleric so i can sleep everyone.b:pleased

Nahktuul - Archosaur · December 2014

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

Naming/shaming allowed ?

Agreed. Naming and shaming is against ToS.

And RT is just a bunch of idiots. That entire server needs to be done away with.

MysticHayley - Heavens Tear · December 2014

only dummy here is the person that puts a charm on thinking it wont tick..well a cleric shouldn't spam heal and waste mp charms or mp pots and pay out a lot of coins in mp. when someone else pays out nothing. If a cleric keeps the squad from dieing then they did their job. If you put a charm on and you don't want to tick it. Well they make hp pots. Use them watch your own hp.
for example As a mystic i can wait for a barb with 40k hp drop down to 5k hp, and heal him 35k hp with 1 heal...why waste my mp with spam heals? the barb was smart to not use a charm, he didn't loose anything neither did the healer.

If you don't want a charm tick, guess what don't use it, simple as that.

Zoldi - Morai · December 2014

MysticHayley - Heavens Tear wrote: »

only dummy here is the person that puts a charm on thinking it wont tick..well a cleric shouldn't spam heal and waste mp charms or mp pots and pay out a lot of coins in mp. when someone else pays out nothing. If a cleric keeps the squad from dieing then they did their job. If you put a charm on and you don't want to tick it. Well they make hp pots. Use them watch your own hp.
for example As a mystic i can wait for a barb with 40k hp drop down to 5k hp, and heal him 35k hp with 1 heal...why waste my mp with spam heals? the barb was smart to not use a charm, he didn't loose anything neither did the healer.

If you don't want a charm tick, guess what don't use it, simple as that.

Is this for real ?????
You don't need to spam heal someone to avoid charm ticks or it means you need a better tank...
You know that when you DD you use MP as well as a caster ? Soon we will see mag DD that will just afk in front of boss to avoid using MP pots, you can't be serious...
And I guess some people use HP charm for PVP but don't want to be charm ***** while tanking FSP bosses..

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver · December 2014

MysticHayley - Heavens Tear wrote: »

only dummy here is the person that puts a charm on thinking it wont tick..well a cleric shouldn't spam heal and waste mp charms or mp pots and pay out a lot of coins in mp. when someone else pays out nothing. If a cleric keeps the squad from dieing then they did their job. If you put a charm on and you don't want to tick it. Well they make hp pots. Use them watch your own hp.
for example As a mystic i can wait for a barb with 55k hp drop down to 5k hp, and heal him 50k hp with 1 heal...why waste my mp with spam heals? the barb was smart to not use a charm, he didn't loose anything neither did the healer.

If you don't want a charm tick, guess what don't use it, simple as that.

With all due respect, why wait until a 50k Barb has their hp drop down to 5k...which is just over half of my cleric's hp buffed.

It is true that as a healer, I can burn a mp charm and burn right through mp pots greatly. Especially since all of my skills are level 11 sage, my mp cost isn't cheap. But each class has expenditures that they have to deal with...some more than others...Listing some of the major bills that each class has...not including certain other charms and apoth that they may use, just some of the main ones.

Clerics: Mp Pots, MP charm.
Barbs: HIGH Repair Bill.
Archers: Ammunition, MP pots/charm.
Mystics: Mp pots/charms.
Assassins: Fairly repair bill, due to how quickly daggers can wear down.
Psychics/Wizards: Mp pots.
Seekers: Mp pots/Fairly High Repair Bill.
Blademasters: Fairly high repair bill.
Venomancers: Loyalty food for pets, Mp pots/charm

We've all got some sort of bill that we have to pay to be successful in our squads.

I will agree that a person shouldn't equip a charm and expect it NEVER to tick, but as a healer, I'm not going to let that person rely upon that charm, just because it is there. Part of why I'm not taking damage is because I'm healing them. I joke with some of my R9rr friends in squads, and tell them that my gear may be only G16, but I'm really R9rr, because you're R9rr. You live off of my heals, and this instance is done faster from your attack power. Your defense is my defense so long as the mobs are off me, and I am the regeneration. I am the real bloodpaint, so we in turn help each other. No matter how much hp and defense a person has, even a R9rr can die.

The risk of letting a person's hp drop just because you don't want to waste any of your mp to refill their hp is that when and if something does happen, and gets out of hand, that barb is now in a worst position to help themselves out. Chances are the rest of the squad is looking like....sooooo....when are you going to heal him? 5k hp from a 55k barb is a barb who's hp has dropped to 1/11 of his hp. In most games, 10% hp is considered critical state, or even danger zone. Letting a barb drop to a point of 9.1% hp to preserve mana isn't really a good practice to adopt. This is true for any class. Personally, I cast IH hundreds of times in instances where BB would not be the ideal heal. If I'm not casting that, I'm casting wellspring, if not that, I'm casting Stream of Rejuvenation, if not that I'm casting Chromatic Healing Beam, if not that I'm using Sage Vanguard, if not that, I'm using Wings of Protection on someone, if not that I'm purifying. Whether I use mp to attack or heal, I'm going to use mp regardless. The difference being that it's more beneficial to my squad for me to act as a healer, and preserve hp and their lives as much as possible than to act as a DD and focus on attacking.

For example, a barb can look at a cleric, and say... Oh, you're charmed, I won't worry about gaining aggro from the few stragglers that are attacking you. It's only a few charm ticks. You'll be okay...and the DD's can say Oh, you're charmed, I won't worry about pulling those mobs off of you either. They aren't doing that though. They're spearheading the assault, and many people feel as though it's one of their main jobs to protect the healer...because when we go down, squadmates often follow. If they're willing to put their characters in harms way to protect my characters, using their mp skills, and taking damage to preserve my cleric, then I'm damn sure going to cast my heals to the best of my ability to preserve them, and keep their hp topped up.

I will say this though...I do wish that squadmates would pop a hp pot hear and there if they see that I'm healing to the best of my ability. It won't kill you to pop a crab meat. I'm spamming herbs like nobody's business, and I'll use a crab meat myself if things get too bad.

My point is this...though it is not a cleric's job to save a charm from ticks, many clerics try to, as they're actually saving MY charm. By keeping my squadmates topped up, I can be more prepared for when things go wrong, and have more time to react. The thing is, you never know when something will go wrong, nor do you know what will go wrong. For example, I've had barbs go POOF in the middle of a pull, had I not kept the seekers life full, we'd have wiped, but the seeker took over the role as tank, and as a healer, I never slacked in healing him, or the squad, or the dc'ed barb. Many people can tank if they're just healed, so there really isn't any reason to let a 55k barb drop to pitifully low hp. The exception is if someone is a leeroy jenkins and either hasn't established aggro.....would die even with heals....or are running well out of heal range....but these aren't any of the situations presented, so I respectfully disagree with you on this. Can't really call a person a dummy for being charmed and not wanting to lose it. Barb charm ticks hurt. It's unreasonable to think that it will never happen, but I do feel that a healer shouldn't slack, just because a player is charmed.

Evryn - Morai · December 2014

LA cler here, so my magic reserve and regen rate isn't that good to begin with.
I use the free 3k mp pots from Divine Emissaries to replenish my mana reserves in instances. I have no issue whatsoever keeping that stock at 9.8k pots or more. If I can do that, so can any full mag cleric. Just do the daily BH - a cleric should have -no- issue whatsoever to find a BH party. People like most clerics in their parties. 'Cause that's a failsafe if someone dies, and less worrying about staying buffed and alive - and take the blue and purple emissary quests once you're done with the BH. At lvl 101 or more you will only get blue and purple quests that give Void orders which can be traded for the good mana pots.

Before I caught on to that I used the small mana pots from lvl 95-99 mobs and even those allowed me to bubble indefinately (nowadays I sell those for a bit of extra coin

).

Colum - Raging Tide · December 2014

I'm amused by the fact people still don't get that you cannot UNEQUIP charms after PVP activities...

Aubree - Dreamweaver · December 2014

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm amused by the fact people still don't get that you cannot UNEQUIP charms after PVP activities...

I am amused you still think that is the healers problem. You are also assuming that clerics hp charms do not tick because healing otherS, that they don't also have left over charms from pvp. FFS charms are free from event gold. If you spent it on fash or random pigs, it's not our problem.

Someone's charms is the least of my worries. Most boss fights don't take long enough to do any real damage to an hp charm. Also ludicrus is people saying "hp charm is fail safe". LOL hp charm isn't going to stop a 1 shot death. It's entirely funny how just a few years ago clerics were all but useless, but now we are back to "My charm ticked QQ". That charm tick could have been the difference of as little as 300 hp. Most people I know are running through instances charms ticking all the way, without a worry in the world. Starting most BH's before a cleric ever even enters the squad. Even harder instances of lunar tm you see about the same thing. A seeker I run with often, on second valley does a huge pull of all the shoveals, tell me to stay back. I watch his charm tick the duration of pull + killing.

1. the guy wasn't the tank.
2. no one died.
3. his charm ticked 1x. He didn't have a charm eaten. Big whoop.
4. accept personal responsibility for your costs of PLAYING A GAME. If you want a cleric to look out for your charm just pm that you are poor and are charmed and can they heal you. They may do it.

Asone - Raging Tide wrote: »

I hate to say this, but having a charm tick is not the problem of the cleric. A cleric cannot be expected to check everyone in the squad to see if they are charmed or not. Also a charm is more of a safety measure, and not a necessity. You decided you wanted to equip a charm fine, but its not up to the cleric to play "I WILL SAVE YOUR CHARM!"..... that, in my opinion, is just sad.

Also from that screenie it seems that no one in your squad died even if the player was having lag issues, so why even complain? It's a cleric job to make sure a squad stays alive no? But it's also your job to unsure the cleric is alive TO heal, and not whine about a charm.

Well said.

ETA:

Also not seen mentioned is this. There is a difference of hp from the squad list as opposed to having someone directly targeted. For whatever reason, the squad list does not update as quickly as a targeted player.

opkossy · December 2014

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm amused by the fact people still don't get that you cannot UNEQUIP charms after PVP activities...

People are.... well.... yeah.

You'd think they'd at least notice in your screenshot it's cause the cleric was spam attacking but instead they wanna act like the cleric was doing nothing wrong and say as long as everyone lived the cleric did their job.

... and yet if everyone lives with the cleric not contributing then the cleric isn't required now is it?

Castgurl - Raging Tide · December 2014

My honest opinion...

The whole thing was just rediculous. The whole world chat nonsense started over charm ticks ON AN ALT during PVE...

IF you put a charm on, expect it to tick at some point. Sometimes the cleric is simply too focused on healing someone else or perhaps is having net issues. Even in PvE instances on my Veno, Barb and soon Seeker, I come prepared for those "oh ****" moments. The "Cleric is dcing like a ****" moments. The "Holy **** I grabbed aggro' moments. And SOMETIMES the "cleric is sucking super balls, better slap on some of that crabmeat/apoth" MOMENTS...

Those that even THINK about calling out someone as a noob for wearing a charm while doing PvE instances are idiots. Charms are BEYOND easy to get now a days, and last I checked...everyone is free to equip whatever ****ing charm they want on their toon. Now those that go THIS far to complain about charm ticks are morons, sorry. Is the cleric's soul purpose is to make sure your charm doesn't tick? Pah. Wow. LOL.

Keisari - Raging Tide · December 2014

Castgurl - Raging Tide wrote: »

My honest opinion...

The whole thing was just rediculous. The whole world chat nonsense started over charm ticks ON AN ALT during PVE...

IF you put a charm on, expect it to tick at some point. Sometimes the cleric is simply too focused on healing someone else or perhaps is having net issues. Even in PvE instances on my Veno, Barb and soon Seeker, I come prepared for those "oh ****" moments. The "Cleric is dcing like a ****" moments. The "Holy **** I grabbed aggro' moments. And SOMETIMES the "cleric is sucking super balls, better slap on some of that crabmeat/apoth" MOMENTS...

There's no excuse for living on a charm while cleric's throwing Plume Shots half of the time. If someone's health keeps bouncing between half and full without cleric's heals or BP, it should be clear (s)he's living on charm when cleric should be healing. In other words: Healer nugget isn't healing well or there's a Leeroy Jenkins in the squad.

Those that even THINK about calling out someone as a noob for wearing a charm while doing PvE instances are idiots. Charms are BEYOND easy to get now a days, and last I checked...everyone is free to equip whatever ****ing charm they want on their toon. Now those that go THIS far to complain about charm ticks are morons, sorry. Is the cleric's soul purpose is to make sure your charm doesn't tick? Pah. Wow. LOL.

The problem isn't people wearing charms, but clerics who let charms tick all the time. It's not that fun to lose 300k off the charm in an PVE-instance just because cleric doesn't know his/her stuff. At least Kitty would rather save some of it for surviving otherwise deadly situations.

-"1,5 event charms used in a single FWS 'cause clericb:cry"

Aubree - Dreamweaver · December 2014

OPKossy wrote: »

People are.... well.... yeah.

You'd think they'd at least notice in your screenshot it's cause the cleric was spam attacking but instead they wanna act like the cleric was doing nothing wrong and say as long as everyone lived the cleric did their job.

... and yet if everyone lives with the cleric not contributing then the cleric isn't required now is it?

Sure did miss that spam dding thingy. Cause sure as rain all I read was about the cleric using plume shot. He never said "you been dding the whole time ignoring my hp". In all his rage, he mentions 1 plume shot.

It is entirely possible, and most likely that the cleric was healing the tank, dding in the middle, spot healing dd's and was a bit slow due to hp lag of the squad list to heal before the tick. Because you know, there is a difference in hp updates from targeted player hp and squad list HP.

But I guess you were there and know more than the OP has even stated.

Personally I would like to know which bh, what his gear is etc.

ovenusarmanio · December 2014

Well he did mention in the OP that he was tired of the cleric not healing, so it's a pretty safe assumption it was more than a single plume shot. Anyway having to pot or do a charm tick every once in a while is NBD. If the person is charm tanking, there is no point in having a healer in the first place then

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

idgaf if people's charm ticks so long as they're not charm tanking everything.

In other words, this. That's about the long and short of it, imo.

Zarkin_Baxil - Raging Tide · December 2014

OK he did say he was on archer so no BP there. And I am guessing since it is an alt it isn't as well geared as his main, I think that's a reasonable assumption. So I will got out on a limb here and say it boils down to poor communication. He should have asked the cleric to make sure his charm didn't tick before the run. If the cleric said no then he could have left and found another squad with a cleric that could have accomidated his needs. The cleric could have said it was really a metal mage and not a cleric and the squad could have decided if it wanted a healer or not. Now while I can see both sides to this argument I find it all very silly. But since I have to sit at my computer and scan and email stuff I need something to break up the time so I am commenting here.

Colum - Raging Tide · December 2014

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I am amused you still think that is the healers problem. You are also assuming that clerics hp charms do not tick because healing otherS, that they don't also have left over charms from pvp. FFS charms are free from event gold. If you spent it on fash or random pigs, it's not our problem.

You're assuming I am assuming things. I never stated that clerics' charms would not tick, nor did I state every charm tick is healer's problem.
However, constant charm ticks, people living simply on their HP charms IS healer's problem (now we're talking about cases where the healer is not healing, focused on something else instead) and this is one of those cases.
If people keep themselves alive fully relying on hp pots/charms/genie, what's the point of having a healer? Some heals are expected from the clerics, as debuffs are expected from venomancer and DDing is expected from sins, etc etc.

A good squad protects cleric from aggro, which will also save cleric's charm. In return, a good cleric would try to protect squad's charms, if they have such.

As for charms being "free"... people also use event gold for refining aids, which is just as "fair" use of the gold as the charms are. Now, you also want to remember different people do different amount of PVP and depending on their gear/class the charm costs can become huge. Sure, they could choose not to charm themselves for PVP... but what's the point?

Someone's charms is the least of my worries. Most boss fights don't take long enough to do any real damage to an hp charm. Also ludicrus is people saying "hp charm is fail safe". LOL hp charm isn't going to stop a 1 shot death. It's entirely funny how just a few years ago clerics were all but useless, but now we are back to "My charm ticked QQ". That charm tick could have been the difference of as little as 300 hp. Most people I know are running through instances charms ticking all the way, without a worry in the world. Starting most BH's before a cleric ever even enters the squad. Even harder instances of lunar tm you see about the same thing. A seeker I run with often, on second valley does a huge pull of all the shoveals, tell me to stay back. I watch his charm tick the duration of pull + killing.

It'd also be good to remember that even some people are not upset over their charms ticking, it does not mean it is wrong to be upset over their charm ticks, especially when it's happening multiple times. As I said earlier, I read the wc drama regarding this issue, including the part where lolgasmic clearly stated that he was not getting healed on his archer and his charm was ticking several times in a row, at least 5.

1. the guy wasn't the tank.
2. no one died.
3. his charm ticked 1x. He didn't have a charm eaten. Big whoop.
4. accept personal responsibility for your costs of PLAYING A GAME. If you want a cleric to look out for your charm just pm that you are poor and are charmed and can they heal you. They may do it.

1. No-one stated who tanked
2. No-one stated whether someone died or not
3. His charmed ticked at least 5 times was what he said on wc
4. Obviously there is personal responsibility, but the point people here are trying to make that NO ONE should be relying on their charm alone when squad has a healer.

That is all I've been trying to say.

ETA:

Also not seen mentioned is this. There is a difference of hp from the squad list as opposed to having someone directly targeted. For whatever reason, the squad list does not update as quickly as a targeted player.

This is true, however in this case the cleric seemed more careless than anything.

OPKossy wrote: »

People are.... well.... yeah.

You'd think they'd at least notice in your screenshot it's cause the cleric was spam attacking but instead they wanna act like the cleric was doing nothing wrong and say as long as everyone lived the cleric did their job.

... and yet if everyone lives with the cleric not contributing then the cleric isn't required now is it?

It wasnt my screenshot, I think you messed me up to lolgasmic. b:laugh

c44102 · December 2014

Funny Post but u can be a barb and tank without charm tick or even being charmed theres other ways to get back HP like Tree of Protection use Crab use a Apoth like Calmness Dew and some other ways also like elixers. Honestly being a barb u do not need to be charmed for anything PVE related. Personaly i feel on my barb being charmed in PVE is a waste i really wish we could take them off when doing PVE stuff that would be great. As far as a Cleric attacking they put out some really good damage debating on the cleric. I like letting them DD and have fun they get bored of just support. Just be glad u had buffs b:laugh

Colum - Raging Tide · December 2014

c44102 wrote: »

Funny Post but u can be a barb and tank without charm tick or even being charmed theres other ways to get back HP like Tree of Protection use Crab use a Apoth like Calmness Dew and some other ways also like elixers. Honestly being a barb u do not need to be charmed for anything PVE related. Personaly i feel on my barb being charmed in PVE is a waste i really wish we could take them off when doing PVE stuff that would be great. As far as a Cleric attacking they put out some really good damage debating on the cleric. I like letting them DD and have fun they get bored of just support. Just be glad u had buffs b:laugh

OP clearly stated he was on his archer.

What is it with people and reading...

Keisari - Raging Tide · December 2014

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

OP clearly stated he was on his archer.

What is it with people and reading...

b:puzzled What's a [Reading] ? b:puzzled

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · December 2014

@ OP, I agree. And I'm a cleric.

Lately we need to heal less, and I can spend a lot more time sealing, debuffing, and doing other things that support the DD as well as making sure that the tank stays alive and the other squad members are healed.

That's the thing though, it's the class. Your primary job as a cleric is to heal. The other things are secondary.

As far as charm ticks go......
If you whine at me about your charm ticking, I'll likely only bother to heal you when you really need it. Take that in the right frame of reference though.... If I'm in the squad, am the designated healer, and you are the tank, the only reason your charm is ticking is because the boss hit you with something damn serious in the 5 seconds I took to seal it or support another squad member to keep them from dying and missing the kill.
The charm is there for a reason.

If you're in one of my squads, and you're not the tank, then there's a damn good chance your charm may tick before I get a heal to you. (especially with Sins and suicide Archers.) it's not that I'm not doing my job, it's just that my primary focus is the tank, and it takes a sec to get to you when I see your HP dropping. If you don't want it to tick, don't use one. If you're in my squad, there's a damn good chance you still won't die, you just don't have that safety net that is provided by the charm.

But that's the difference too. I'm a good cleric. I know what my role is. I love to DD and am built for it, but I also know what my position is given the situation.

If you didn't want to play a support class, you should not have chosen a Cleric. b:bye
If you are a cleric, play you damn class or go somewhere else.
If you have multiple clerics in the squad, before beginning the run, determine who is DD and who is the main healer. If you are chosen for DD, be aware that you may still need to swap to healing to support the team.

ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear · December 2014

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Don't wear charms if you don't want them ticking. Most of the time I heal at 25% health and DD in the middles. You didn't even die, you're just being an ***. Clerics only job is to not allow you to die and buff. b:chuckle

Yea, I hope you hand out a flyer before you join squads. I'd happily throw you out on your behind if that was your cleric strategy in any squad I was forming.

Maybe the game needs a title for people to wear, "DD Only" for those who don't want to be the healer, or the tank.

"P*ss off, I'm on an attack macro and am microwaving my chicken nuggets. You're on your own, Snowflake"

NestFreemark - Raging Tide · December 2014

Too many people like me have left... Sadly, my life is a bit too busy atm b:surrenderb:kiss

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · December 2014

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sure did miss that spam dding thingy. Cause sure as rain all I read was about the cleric using plume shot. He never said "you been dding the whole time ignoring my hp". In all his rage, he mentions 1 plume shot.

It is entirely possible, and most likely that the cleric was healing the tank, dding in the middle, spot healing dd's and was a bit slow due to hp lag of the squad list to heal before the tick. Because you know, there is a difference in hp updates from targeted player hp and squad list HP.

But I guess you were there and know more than the OP has even stated.

Personally I would like to know which bh, what his gear is etc.

Archer is rb1 level 97, T3+10 bow and full set of T3+5 armor. Sky Demon's Pearl+4, R8 ring, and Warsong belt +5. Pure dex build with I think it was 9k base or close to it. The cleric never healed during boss fight, I think she did chromatic a couple times on mobs and healed like 2/3 of the 6 in squad.

Let it be clear that the barb attacked the boss first, fine. I already knew the barb wouldn't keep agro, they rarely do anyway.

As soon as the barb attacked I used STA and immedietly took agro. So I sparked, tangling mired and went nuts on the boss. Boss was only doing 200-500 damage per hit, no big deal, seen worse. Still taking hits... Watching cleric cast really slow plume shots at the boss.... 'r u srs?'

Boss fight took like 20-23 seconds and I had agro the entire time, no way the agro could had been confused to be on someone else. My HP was going down very steadily, oh and the boss did a couple special attacks for 2k. With my HP nearing the 50% mark I say:

- -
heal
cleric

charm ticks

Boss dies

seriously what a lazy cleric, yes i was annoyed.

I didn't get pissed until she made that stupid comment in the pic, and then i was furious when 3 other people from her faction started to PM how much i suck balls and should uninstall.

I've noticed the vast majority of people disagree with me (99% of which are clerics) and 100% of them were not even in that squad to see exactly what happened. Things got crazy once it was taken to world chat and of course everyone wants to say something. I guess this is a topic a lot of people were itching to talk about.

I'm not sorry for anything, I don't think there is anything to be sorry for, hurt feelings or what. In a nutshell this all started because I got annoyed a cleric wouldn't cleric.

Darkette - Sanctuary · December 2014

LOL ... your problem is you've never learned to play your class -- it's obvious you know zero about aggro management. I've also got a somewhat OP archer and I wouldnt even think of going in a squad without a lower level bow for boss fights, and where necessary I moderate the speed of my attack. It shouldn't come as any huge surprise when clerics become jaded with all you class newbs thinking you're *the tank.*

Not defending that cleric, perhaps she could have been more diligent; notwithstanding, you are not guiltless.

And for you hyper babies who're gonna disagree, squads are about teamwork, tanks tanking, DD'rs doing damage WITHOUT stealing aggro, and healers healing. Don't you freaking dare gripe about a cleric's shortcomings without also accepting responsibility for your failure to do your job appropriately. LOL ... but, yeah, gonna fall on deaf ears because all you know is to go in blazing away full tilt -- dontcha dare ***** about a ticked charm when you can't keep your ego in check.

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · December 2014

Darkette - Sanctuary wrote: »

LOL ... your problem is you've never learned to play your class -- it's obvious you know zero about aggro management.

I play a barb... AND the archer for over a year; why would I care about agro management if the boss is ez. I didn't care about agro, I cared that the cleric didn't care.

StellaNova - Raging Tide · December 2014

Tanks do the tanking.... sure if they know what they are doing, idk about Sanctuary, but on RT i've seen a few barbs not even knowing their aggro skills... in that case i can't do sht, but try to get the boss down...

got a jones retired lvl 80 kitty somewhere too, takes a bit to learn the tank part, but kinda got tired of the slow killing, on kill quests so it got degraded to Jones char

Stop... Sucking...

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