Jaden Emperor's Defiance (G16) vs Nebulous Shooter (R9)

zpinsky
zpinsky Posts: 27 Arc User
edited January 2015 in Archer
I was comparing the two bows and just looking at the numbers, it appears the G16 Jaden Emperor's Defiance bow looks slightly more powerful than the Nebulous Shooter (R9) bow.

The G16 has physical attack 1298-2410 vs the R9 1257-2334. Also the G16 has Attack level +40 (maybe some additional attach or defense levels if your lucky), but the R9 only has attack level +30.

I see that the R9 is part of the Nebulous Melody Complect where as the G16 doesn't have a Complect. But by itself, it seems like the R9 bow is slightly less powerful.

I assume I am missing something, but I always thought that R9 gear was more powerful than G16. Anyone have an explanation?

Thanks
Post edited by zpinsky on

Comments

  • lodez
    lodez Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    R9 bow is only g14. RRR9 bow Firmament is G16.

    The correct order is RRR9>G16>RR9>G15>G9>G13
  • zpinsky
    zpinsky Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Ok...looking at the Firmament bow, it has physical attach of 1410-2619 compared to G16 bow 1298-2410. The both have attach level +40. So it is stronger but not hugely stronger. Say about 9% stronger....Is it worth the extra money to obtain that bow? I am misinterpreting the numbers here?
  • lodez
    lodez Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The strength of rrr9 weapons are on the special bonus stats. For the Firmament bow, its the purge that gives the significant advantage and also the extra 14-25 Atk levels. NV3 G16 weapons can never get these bonus stat.
  • zpinsky
    zpinsky Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    What is the purge (what does it do)? Does it come standard with the Firmament bow, or does it have to be added?
  • Fail_BM - Raging Tide
    Fail_BM - Raging Tide Posts: 929 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    A strange question coming from someone comparing R9 and G16... Spirit Blackhole is what he calls purge, it removes the buffs of your target.
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  • lodez
    lodez Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Yes purge comes as a standard add-on. The only 3 variables are crit%, dex and atk level they are all there, just the values will be within a range. Check out in the archer's forum on Firmament bow rankings.
  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    If you're wondering which is stronger R9 or T3 the answer is T3.

    But R9 is the base Rank 9. While T3 is the highest level of Nirvana.

    R9 < T3
    R9r = T3
    R9rr > T3

    My archer has the Jaden bow +10 and I can assure you R9 is better... Even if it is the base Rank 9. Numbers don't always equate to the real game. (Whether you compare just weapons or the whole set, R9 still wins)




    Actually it still doesn't end there... That's just the gear lol, there's all sorts of **** you can do with T3 set and beat people with R9rr. Neumas, cards, Morai skills, Primal skills, Primal Passive skills, Charms, having more sage/demon skills. And sometimes the class. In most cases the class difference doesn't mean a whole lot but there are some classes they have achieved a perma-stun lock combo.
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  • Nudimmud - Lost City
    Nudimmud - Lost City Posts: 175 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I'm more confused as to why this is in the quality corner than anything else.
  • zpinsky
    zpinsky Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    You know it doesn't belong here.....I intended to post it in the general discussions....not in quality corner...that was a mistake.

    But since it's here...I have one more question.....what gear is T3? I'm not familiar with T3.
  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    zpinsky wrote: »
    You know it doesn't belong here.....I intended to post it in the general discussions....not in quality corner...that was a mistake.

    But since it's here...I have one more question.....what gear is T3? I'm not familiar with T3.

    T3, S3, N3, same thing.
    Nirvana Stage 1 is g13.
    Nirvana Stage 2 is g15
    Nirvana Stage 3 is g16 and requires a different type of forge and materials to produce.

    You can find the Nirvana forges for T1 and T2 by the entrance to the old Nirvana Palace, next to RT city.

    The forge for T3 is inside Warsong City.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    R9 bows also fire faster...(unless you have Jaden with x2 -0.05) DPS comes out as barely worse than G16 at +12 otherwise, and that is only because G16 has better refine bonuses than R9.

    What's the point of comparing R9 bow and G16 though...nobody gets the rank bows without intending to complete the set, neither would one get the armor and just grab G16.

    As long as we're on bow-only comparisons, pretty sure Morai bow is just barely below R9 bow in PvE damage output even considering R9's faster speed, and that just costs a couple mil coins.
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  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    It goes even deeper than that, Id on't know where but one of my computers has a notepad detailing the prices between T3, R9rr and the Warsoul Bow (first cast). Basically T3 was the cheapest and R9rr was the most expensive, while 1st cast Warsoul was a pretty decent middle ground. But why would an archer want a Warsoul bow instead of R9...? Well I guess that is the wrong question, maybe it should be "I'm too poor to afford R9, what's 1 step lower?"

    Honestly if you decide on just getting T3 you'd end up being disappointed because a lot of the rolls are just bad or mediocre.

    But I guess if you'd like to extend the life of the game for you... Rerolling T3 would be one way to do it. All this **** is subjective so I'm not even touching what I think, I'm just throwing out kernels of truth so maybe can turn it into a bean stalk.
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  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    In raw base stats G16 is better than R9 (Rank 9). In practical situations G16 is inferior due to the "Spirit Blackhole" ability and -0.10 interval between hits on the R9 bow.

    The G16 set is better than the Rank 9 set due to the +100 DEX bonus.


    Now people who get Rank 9 don't stay at Rank 9. R9RR (3rd Cast Rank 9) completely and utterly demolishes G16 players. In TW and NW, wearing G16 is as good as wearing nothing against a R9RR player.
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited November 2014
    angellicdeity wrote: »
    The G16 set is better than the Rank 9 set due to the +100 DEX bonus.

    Pretty sure you have this backwards here since G16 doesn't have that bonus.
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  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

    As long as we're on bow-only comparisons, pretty sure Morai bow is just barely below R9 bow in PvE damage output even considering R9's faster speed, and that just costs a couple mil coins.

    Yeah plus it is dependent on the add's as well. I think it was calc'd with daggers the morai's would out dph the r9's with patt add's. I am not sure if that was up to a certain refine or not, its been quite a while since i read those. I am sure the bow's are up there as well or possibly even exceed r9.

    A lot of people where dismissive on morai weapons atleast on sins because of the lack of int or pvp. Which was really silly.
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  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »
    A lot of people where dismissive on morai weapons atleast on sins because of the lack of int or pvp. Which was really silly.

    To be fair, at the time of Morai and shortly after, T3 had already been out. It was easier, cheaper and more practical to be T3. But now since Lunar is off the BH list getting the full T3 set is far more expensive; Time to start checking out those Morai gears for alts or newbies.
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  • Ignathas - Sanctuary
    Ignathas - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    r9 used to be good a year ago maybe, now there are literally noone in this game who is still r9 and can compete with my g16 +12 bow. however g16 is complete shi** compared to r9r frimanant, that has alot higher base dmg (100 extra p.att on the base weapon dmg can soon be 10,000 p.att on character menu) like i have everything maxed and same dex, and only 42k patt. and i know r9r who has 55k patt base. plus blackhole plus higher att lvl, plus higher stats in general plus higher speed... i can still kill r9r even good players cos i have everything else maxed, like some1 said morai, chamrs, nuemas, meridian and so on, + combos, but there is a significant huge difference in those 2 weapons. then ppl say r9 they usually mean frimanant endgame version these days
  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Ignathas - Sanctuary wrote: »
    r9 used to be good a year ago maybe, now there are literally noone in this game who is still r9 and can compete with my g16 +12 bow. however g16 is complete shi** compared to r9r frimanant, that has alot higher base dmg (100 extra p.att on the base weapon dmg can soon be 10,000 p.att on character menu) like i have everything maxed and same dex, and only 42k patt. and i know r9r who has 55k patt base. plus blackhole plus higher att lvl, plus higher stats in general plus higher speed... i can still kill r9r even good players cos i have everything else maxed, like some1 said morai, chamrs, nuemas, meridian and so on, + combos, but there is a significant huge difference in those 2 weapons. then ppl say r9 they usually mean frimanant endgame version these days

    pwi is a tough nut...

    Most people who don't go R9 have made that decision based on the prices being ludicrous; imo I would just straight up tell people to rebirth, get full t3, refine the hell out of the armor (without orbs, be a man!), and stock up on A cards and primal & morai skills. I think that is the best way to be op
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  • Toddloveleah - Harshlands
    Toddloveleah - Harshlands Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Here's a basic way to figure it up.

    G16>R8RR and R9= Gives more attack and def levels than both, however R8rr weps do still have a place in end game gears to switch to during pvp for defensive purposes. But it's smarter to have full g16 or r9 to use along side of the r8rr wep.

    G16=R9r - Some say r9r is better some say g16. They both give you about the same power g16 has higher base stats but r9r gives more attack and def lvls i think. So you can call these two about even.

    R9rr>g16 - Of course as r9rr is the cashshop gear and g16 is much much cheaper. You really can't compare the two like you could with r9r and g16 r9rr gives stuff like procs, the weps sometimes got GoF. You get tons more attk and def lvls which translates to spirit down the road. Which means two ppl max spirit fight each other the only one who will have the bonus damage is the r9rr so that pretty much means a end gear r9rr max spirit can roll a g16 max spirit no problem no matter how they are refined[pretty much, not saying a +3 r9rr will roll a +12 g16 but probably a +8 r9rr could, short of the g16 person having full jades or deitys or something which would only help on one end.
  • Toddloveleah - Harshlands
    Toddloveleah - Harshlands Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »



    Actually it still doesn't end there... That's just the gear lol, there's all sorts of **** you can do with T3 set and beat people with R9rr. Neumas, cards, Morai skills, Primal skills, Primal Passive skills, Charms, having more sage/demon skills. And sometimes the class. In most cases the class difference doesn't mean a whole lot but there are some classes they have achieved a perma-stun lock combo.

    I'd say unless you sorely out gear, spirit, card a r9rr as a g16 most likely you aren't going to win.

    You forget spirit is controlled by attk and defense lvls which r9rrs always have the upper hand in. And not just by a few attack and defense lvls we are talking at least 10-15 more.

    So by spirit, if a r9rr fought a g16 the r9rr would be the only one getting a attk and def bonus because even if the g16 out spirited the r9rr you bonus is set by how many attk lvls you have over the opponents defense lvls and how many def lvls over attack lvls
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary
    Asterelle - Sanctuary Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Toddloveleah - Harshlands wrote: »
    I'd say unless you sorely out gear, spirit, card a r9rr as a g16 most likely you aren't going to win.

    You forget spirit is controlled by attk and defense lvls which r9rrs always have the upper hand in. And not just by a few attack and defense lvls we are talking at least 10-15 more.

    So by spirit, if a r9rr fought a g16 the r9rr would be the only one getting a attk and def bonus because even if the g16 out spirited the r9rr you bonus is set by how many attk lvls you have over the opponents defense lvls and how many def lvls over attack lvls
    The effects of Spirit is independant of the effects of attack/deffense levels. The damage reductions/amplifications multiply together.

    Archer damage is too low for G16 to do anything in endgame. There aren't any amazing debuffs or amplifications for you to fall back on. You won't be able to kill anyone. At least R9 is able to purge people without killing them. R9 has an upgrade path as well to R9rr while G16 is a dead end.
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  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Toddloveleah - Harshlands wrote: »
    Here's a basic way to figure it up.

    G16>R8RR and R9= Gives more attack and def levels than both, however R8rr weps do still have a place in end game gears to switch to during pvp for defensive purposes. But it's smarter to have full g16 or r9 to use along side of the r8rr wep.

    G16=R9r - Some say r9r is better some say g16. They both give you about the same power g16 has higher base stats but r9r gives more attack and def lvls i think. So you can call these two about even.

    R9rr>g16 - Of course as r9rr is the cashshop gear and g16 is much much cheaper. You really can't compare the two like you could with r9r and g16 r9rr gives stuff like procs, the weps sometimes got GoF. You get tons more attk and def lvls which translates to spirit down the road. Which means two ppl max spirit fight each other the only one who will have the bonus damage is the r9rr so that pretty much means a end gear r9rr max spirit can roll a g16 max spirit no problem no matter how they are refined[pretty much, not saying a +3 r9rr will roll a +12 g16 but probably a +8 r9rr could, short of the g16 person having full jades or deitys or something which would only help on one end.


    This is true of PvE.

    In PvP, R9 > G16 just for the purge alone.

    As pointed out numerous times, Archers deal pretty crappy damage end-game. The only way to deal anything that hurts is to purge people.

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