Toad aggro

nbreaking
nbreaking Posts: 607 Arc User
edited November 2014 in General Discussion
So, around 3 days ago I did FS with my two best friends, one of them is a r9rr seeker, the other one a T3 cleric. Myself? I'm a r9rr sin.

So, we kill the first 2 bosses, everything is ok as usual, we get to toad, no barbs around. I decide to tank toad as I did on the previous 4-6 runs. I buff myself with deaden nerves and tidal, go into the corner and pull toad.

When toad is around 1/4 of his HP he "kills" me (ticked my deaden nerves due to a badly timed spark) and as he does this suddenly he goes after the seeker. I would say that would be normal since the seeker is r9rr+11 and there is a possibility he could get aggro from me (very slim probability but still...). The strange part begins now... So, as I said, he goes after the seeker (who was barely even attacking) and kills him but THEN he goes after the cleric who was just healing. He ignored me and all the other DDs and went for the cleric. The cleric started running around for around 30 seconds while everyone kept DDing and he never turned away from her once. After she died he went after everyone first, I was the last one to get aggro even though I was the best DD.

Here's what I think happened:
From what I know (correct me if i am wrong), toad doesn't have random aggro (aggro reset from time to time), so, the only possibility I see here is that when he ticked my deaden nerves he glitched somehow and thought I was dead even though I kept DDing... That would explain why I lost aggro and I was the last one to get it again once everyone was killed but it still wouldn't explain why the cleric who was only healing would get aggro from all the DDs...

Thoughts about this?
Post edited by Unknown User on



Mr. Justice

Comments

  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Clerics generate agro from IH, which is usually the highest agro'r aside the tank or tanks in this case. Ever see a boss attack a cleric when it seems they never attacked the boss? It is from where the cleric is stacking ih on the tank and ends up throwing a ih when a player gets in agro range of the boss. This is usually not a concern with barbs as their first strike is usually a high dd(in agro terms) skill which generates more agro than an IH. You will see this alot when the sin is the tank and rib strikes or sparks at the boss. IH generates more agro than rib strike and there is no agro from a spark

    Its not a bug, its a game mechanic, an old one at that
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  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I'm usually the last person to get aggro if the tank dies, as long as I'm not DDing. If the cleric was DDing there is a good chance they got aggro from that. Seeker buffs increase cleric damage a lot because of the demon cleric metal debuff. If I have a seeker in squad a lot of the time I can take aggro.
  • Fail_BM - Raging Tide
    Fail_BM - Raging Tide Posts: 929 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I haven't seen it yet in the "new" instances (haven't been in there) but sometimes when I am killing stuff at primal world, mobs ignore my walker for some reason, even if it used it aggro skills, and start to attack me.

    Seems to be there is an uncommon aggro glitch in primal world.
  • nbreaking
    nbreaking Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Clerics generate agro from IH, which is usually the highest agro'r aside the tank or tanks in this case. Ever see a boss attack a cleric when it seems they never attacked the boss? It is from where the cleric is stacking ih on the tank and ends up throwing a ih when a player gets in agro range of the boss. This is usually not a concern with barbs as their first strike is usually a high dd(in agro terms) skill which generates more agro than an IH. You will see this alot when the sin is the tank and rib strikes or sparks at the boss. IH generates more agro than rib strike and there is no agro from a spark

    Its not a bug, its a game mechanic, an old one at that

    I am not sure, but still I think that's not how it works. I do know that healing skills generate aggro, but not to that extent. Also, I was using Life hunter (attacks twice and is spammable) hitting around 300k on GoF crits, I am sorry, but I refuse to believe a T3 cleric just healing (She never DD, I am 100% sure of it) could steal aggro from the numbers I presented. At least in this situation I refuse to believe your theory. Thanks for the input though :D Might work like that on different situations, but I am sure this was not the case on my particular "problem".
    I haven't seen it yet in the "new" instances (haven't been in there) but sometimes when I am killing stuff at primal world, mobs ignore my walker for some reason, even if it used it aggro skills, and start to attack me.

    Seems to be there is an uncommon aggro glitch in primal world.

    I have noticed this but it was not in primal (so far). In AEU, we got the dark and light path, I was with 2 other people on dark and there were 7 people on light. The mobs on dark bypassed us 3 twice, like we didn't even exist. Rest of the waves went fine and we got aggro as soon as they spawned... I don't know if there's a new glitch going around but... it's weird.



    Mr. Justice
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Supprot Guru Posts: 7,908
    edited November 2014
    When you "died", the boss moved to the second person on the aggro list, which was the cleric. Happens all the time.

    Also, yes, healing can generate a fair pit of aggro. If the healing is strong enough, it is even enough to "steal" aggro from the tank. Toss in the aforementioned seeker debuffs and a cleric that actually knows how to play and is decently geared, and they would easily be second on the aggro list. (Happens to me all the time)
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  • mkat
    mkat Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    If you get stunned by the axe drop, it can reset your aggro, I have noticed this quite a bit. Even if my barb runs in at start and flesh reams and I dont anti stun and get stunned by axe, will lose aggro at times. So you quite possibly, got stunned by axe but resisted with tidal, lost aggro, and then sparked too avoid death then didnt have a chance to get it back before he moved to someone else.

    No *dying* with deaden on the big hit does not lose aggro. I have many sin friends who tank toad daily and boss doesn't budge.
  • icycoffeebreaks
    icycoffeebreaks Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Seekers have 2 skills that increase threat to itself and get aggro almost guarantee. The seeker in squad must have used an aggro skill to attack without knowing its effect. That reset the aggro from you, and went to him, then went after the cleric who was healing after he died.
  • nbreaking
    nbreaking Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    mkat wrote: »
    If you get stunned by the axe drop, it can reset your aggro, I have noticed this quite a bit. Even if my barb runs in at start and flesh reams and I dont anti stun and get stunned by axe, will lose aggro at times. So you quite possibly, got stunned by axe but resisted with tidal, lost aggro, and then sparked too avoid death then didnt have a chance to get it back before he moved to someone else.

    No *dying* with deaden on the big hit does not lose aggro. I have many sin friends who tank toad daily and boss doesn't budge.

    Yeah, I thought it was weird too since I have tanked him before and this never happened. Most of the answers everyone has been posting here sound plausible, but honestly I am still not convinced.

    I still think that he glitched upon "killing" me, since it never happened before.



    Mr. Justice
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    nbreaking wrote: »
    Yeah, I thought it was weird too since I have tanked him before and this never happened. Most of the answers everyone has been posting here sound plausible, but honestly I am still not convinced.

    I still think that he glitched upon "killing" me, since it never happened before.

    Remember if the agro reset because of the ticking of DN then you just dropped to the bottom of the agro list. It is only reasonable to assume you would be the last he would agro again. You never dealt enough damage afterwards to gain that agro back. What happened here is not agro bouncing, you lost you threat level once nerves ticked(looks that way atleast). So while you are at zero threat level and the rest of the squad still has theirs from the fight. It is really irrelevant how much damage you can dph if you are starting from scratch with that little amount of hp left(also see below).

    Another thing to note is, I have never seen a post on what the agro timer is exactly. Meaning is it the entire boss fight or ever X amount of seconds. In the example you gave it looks like it very well be the entire fight until the boss is dead.

    This also brings up an interesting question. Do some bosses really have random agro, or are they just going to the next inline because of a tick of DN. This is a really good thread. Even if this turned out to be just a fluke or bug. But, I am leaning towards the game mechanics as i have experienced this myself from dying in a boss fight(if DN does the same thing). This I have not seen as much as the amount of damage that has been added to the game the last few updates.

    I will have to test this with know bosses I have solo'd on my sin and my barb just doing a macro just debuffing and the boss seeming to random agro.
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  • TroubleIsMe - Dreamweaver
    TroubleIsMe - Dreamweaver Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    3-Man FSP can be pretty different to say the least! Equinox on the Dreamweaver server did it the other day with r9rr Barb (StormStryker), G16 Cleric(kisskitty) and r9rr Mystic (TroubleIsMe) and didn't see the same issue with this boss. I'd say its the make up of the squad, as the StormStryker had a good handle on the aggro, of course, and kisskitty is VERY experienced in this instance as well! I really think this instance was specifically made for a 6-10 man squad, and not for 3, but we pulled it off! Kudos to you as well on your attempt! b:victory
    Silly boys, games are for girls! b:chuckle
  • Zoldi - Morai
    Zoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I really think this instance was specifically made for a 6-10 man squad

    This is becoming very common if you have good enough gears, especially with certain classes. The most difficult boss in this configuration (3 men squad) would be the Succubus.
    The perfect numbers for succubus is 5 players if you don't want to have to immune when it says to stay together.

    Anyway I don't really understand the link with OP's question b:surrender
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  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    When you "died", the boss moved to the second person on the aggro list, which was the cleric. Happens all the time.

    Also, yes, healing can generate a fair pit of aggro. If the healing is strong enough, it is even enough to "steal" aggro from the tank. Toss in the aforementioned seeker debuffs and a cleric that actually knows how to play and is decently geared, and they would easily be second on the aggro list. (Happens to me all the time)

    He said second person with aggro after "dying" was seeker not cleric. IH doesn't actually pull much aggro unless no one else is still damaging the boss. I have never stolen aggro with heals, from a boss being constantly damaged. I am pure build r9rr. If that was even remotely true, I don't see anyone holding aggro over a cleric. I can however steal aggro almost every time with even r9rr tanks and moderate refines (+10) with pure DD. I even warn tanks I'm coming after their aggro. I'm sporting +0 r9rr.
  • nbreaking
    nbreaking Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    3-Man FSP can be pretty different to say the least! Equinox on the Dreamweaver server did it the other day with r9rr Barb (StormStryker), G16 Cleric(kisskitty) and r9rr Mystic (TroubleIsMe) and didn't see the same issue with this boss. I'd say its the make up of the squad, as the StormStryker had a good handle on the aggro, of course, and kisskitty is VERY experienced in this instance as well! I really think this instance was specifically made for a 6-10 man squad, and not for 3, but we pulled it off! Kudos to you as well on your attempt! b:victory

    Thanks for the compliment but it was not a 3 man squad, there were 10 people total including myself.
    nbreaking wrote: »

    So, as I said, he goes after the seeker (who was barely even attacking) and kills him but THEN he goes after the cleric who was just healing. He ignored me and all the other DDs and went for the cleric. The cleric started running around for around 30 seconds while everyone kept DDing and he never turned away from her once. After she died he went after everyone first, I was the last one to get aggro even though I was the best DD.

    But yes, the way I have put the first sentence maybe I gave the impression it was just us 3, ups, sorry xD


    Remember if the agro reset because of the ticking of DN then you just dropped to the bottom of the agro list. It is only reasonable to assume you would be the last he would agro again. You never dealt enough damage afterwards to gain that agro back. What happened here is not agro bouncing, you lost you threat level once nerves ticked(looks that way atleast). So while you are at zero threat level and the rest of the squad still has theirs from the fight. It is really irrelevant how much damage you can dph if you are starting from scratch with that little amount of hp left(also see below).

    Another thing to note is, I have never seen a post on what the agro timer is exactly. Meaning is it the entire boss fight or ever X amount of seconds. In the example you gave it looks like it very well be the entire fight until the boss is dead.

    This also brings up an interesting question. Do some bosses really have random agro, or are they just going to the next inline because of a tick of DN. This is a really good thread. Even if this turned out to be just a fluke or bug. But, I am leaning towards the game mechanics as i have experienced this myself from dying in a boss fight(if DN does the same thing). This I have not seen as much as the amount of damage that has been added to the game the last few updates.

    I will have to test this with know bosses I have solo'd on my sin and my barb just doing a macro just debuffing and the boss seeming to random agro.

    Yes, this is exactly what I am thinking and I am willing to test it more, however, I think it was a one time thing only since, from my view of course, it was indeed a glitch.

    BTW, I want to thank everyone for your opinions on this topic. It's a very weird situation for sure b:cute



    Mr. Justice
  • Satyrion - Sanctuary
    Satyrion - Sanctuary Posts: 255 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I am suspecting the boss for resetting aggro totally from that character he throws axe at. At least the first axe seems to always reset agro (just see a barb start attack the boss, nobody else hitting, and as barb get stunned, cleric will draw aggro immediately if she heals him)
    The other day when I was duoing flow I was using my veno to throw axes & DD, had my seeker to debuff once, and meanwhile my friend was tanking. But when he mistimed triple spark once and died from toad, the boss started to attack my seeker instead of my venomancer, besides I didnt even DD from seeker, and my venomancer is r9rr +11 weapon afterall soo.. I think it's because of that axe stun that are resetting aggro.
    But how your cleric was keeping aggro... I am not sure about that, I had no trouble getting aggro away from my seeker.
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