How does aggro mechanics work?

kirovallemont · October 2014

Is it like an "invisible damage" that the monster understands as damage and then turns to you?

Asone - Raging Tide · October 2014

It doesn't hurt to use google you know......
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Aggro#How_does_aggro_work.3F

Salari - Raging Tide · October 2014

http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Aggro

Asone - Raging Tide · October 2014

Jinx Salari! ROFL!

kirovallemont · October 2014

I did, but that didn't explained me that.

WannaBM - Archosaur · October 2014

Yes agro is some kind of invisible damage.

roar, devour and ream each do about 20k of this invisible dmg (at lvl 11)
Stomp of the king does about 100k.

On top of that, roar and ream increase your agro to be the highest of all players interacting with the mob before adding that 20k. (dont believe any urban myths about resetting agro)

So for example:

1) Player does 100k of dmg to a boss. He now has 100k agro
2) Barb uses ream. His agro first gets increased to 100k. Ream does 25k damage. This is added as well as the invisible 20k is added. He now has 145k agro.
3) Player deals 50k damage to bring his total to 150k and steals agro.
4) barb now uses devour. Devour does 20k damage as well as 20k invisible damage. Total agro now goes up from 145 to 185. Barb has agro again.
5) Player makes a zerk crit for 200k damage bring his total to 350k and stealing agro yet again.
6) Barb now uses roar. This sets his agro 350k, equaling the DD, then adds 20k. The barb now has 370k agro.
7) Before player steals again, barb now uses stomp of the king right after roar. Stomp does 25k dmg and adds 100k invisible dmg. This brings his agro to 495k.
8) At last succes, the DD does not zerk crit, deals only 50k damage bringing his agro to 400k and not stealing it again

Therefore, the barb can tank in 2 ways. If he tanks in tiger form using ream aided by other agro skills, he will each time be brought to the top of the agro list. He can never lose agro for longer than the cooldown of ream. (2.5-3s) Then he will get it back.
His damage output however is rather low compared to other classes. (attacks in tigerform are somewhat slow and dont have much special effects for adding real damage) So during the cooldown of ream, equally geared DDs will most likely take agro again until you ream again. This is partial agro. It can be helpfull as you take away half the hits from the DD, or it can be anoying if it causes the boss to move around.

The other way is to tank by DD. This is what happens when you do mobless FW. The one who does the most damage is going to be tanking and using IG to take those 50k hits. Any class can tank by DD. The difference is that it is all or nothing. If a barb in tiger loses agro, he can always take it back. If you are tanking by DD and you lose agro, espescially for a barb who gets both chi and damage bonus from being hit, it probably means you wont get it back unless you revert to using agro skills.

kirovallemont · October 2014

Whew, glad someone understood what I meant.

Also, if I spark, does the "invisible damage" increases as well or it stays the same?

WannaBM - Archosaur · October 2014

kirovallemont wrote: »

Whew, glad someone understood what I meant.

Also, if I spark, does the "invisible damage" increases as well or it stays the same?

I have never tested the effect of sparking, buffing or debuffing on the "invisible damage".

I suspect it does not work since i seem to remember that when tiger tanking, the moment the HF comes was often when you lose agro. Not sure though, it should be tested.

If you want to test it, its really simple. You go to a boss that doesnt hurt much but wont die in a few hits. Let the barb do his agro skill, record how much dmg it did, then see how how much damage the other player needs to get agro. (use bare hands to better control the damage you do)

freygin · October 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Yes agro is some kind of invisible damage.

roar, devour and ream each do about 20k of this invisible dmg (at lvl 11)
Stomp of the king does about 100k.

On top of that, roar and ream increase your agro to be the highest of all players interacting with the mob before adding that 20k. (dont believe any urban myths about resetting agro)

So for example:

1) Player does 100k of dmg to a boss. He now has 100k agro
2) Barb uses ream. His agro first gets increased to 100k. Ream does 25k damage. This is added as well as the invisible 20k is added. He now has 145k agro.
3) Player deals 50k damage to bring his total to 150k and steals agro.
4) barb now uses devour. Devour does 20k damage as well as 20k invisible damage. Total agro now goes up from 145 to 185. Barb has agro again.
5) Player makes a zerk crit for 200k damage bring his total to 350k and stealing agro yet again.
6) Barb now uses roar. This sets his agro 350k, equaling the DD, then adds 20k. The barb now has 370k agro.
7) Before player steals again, barb now uses stomp of the king right after roar. Stomp does 25k dmg and adds 100k invisible dmg. This brings his agro to 495k.
8) At last succes, the DD does not zerk crit, deals only 50k damage bringing his agro to 400k and not stealing it again

Therefore, the barb can tank in 2 ways. If he tanks in tiger form using ream aided by other agro skills, he will each time be brought to the top of the agro list. He can never lose agro for longer than the cooldown of ream. (2.5-3s) Then he will get it back.
His damage output however is rather low compared to other classes. (attacks in tigerform are somewhat slow and dont have much special effects for adding real damage) So during the cooldown of ream, equally geared DDs will most likely take agro again until you ream again. This is partial agro. It can be helpfull as you take away half the hits from the DD, or it can be anoying if it causes the boss to move around.

The other way is to tank by DD. This is what happens when you do mobless FW. The one who does the most damage is going to be tanking and using IG to take those 50k hits. Any class can tank by DD. The difference is that it is all or nothing. If a barb in tiger loses agro, he can always take it back. If you are tanking by DD and you lose agro, espescially for a barb who gets both chi and damage bonus from being hit, it probably means you wont get it back unless you revert to using agro skills.

Good info for barb b:thanks

btw how if the barb dies, then gets revived about lets say 2 minutes later, does the amount of aggro point get reset or still continue, if the aggro points of the barb reset or even if not reset, 2 minutes is enough to make his aggro points behind by a lot from DDs in squad, he should never be able to get aggro back until the boss dies, but barbs usually just use aggro skill and gain aggro back.

WannaBM - Archosaur · October 2014

IIRC i tested some of that too. It resets. Also if you manage to leave battle (but not the others fighting) and come back.

Salari - Raging Tide · October 2014

Asone - Raging Tide wrote: »

Jinx Salari! ROFL!

b:chuckle

Keisari - Raging Tide · October 2014

If Kitty remembers right the actual numbers of "invisible damage" for skills are the following:

Flesh Ream: 15k damage
Devour: 5k damage
Roar: 5k damage

Roar and Flesh Ream indeed rise the barb to the top of aggro list by rising barb's aggro to same level as highest DD and adding invinsible damage+actual damage from FR itself. For ex. if barb already had 95k aggro, then some DD hits him/herself to 145k aggro, barb uses FR that hits 9k and has his aggro risen to 145k + 15k + 9k = 169k. Thus the highest DD wound need to do another 24,1k damage to take aggro again.

In some cases barb causes more aggro by going full DD than by constantly FRing in tiggy more. In these cases barb better go full DD if he outdamages everyone else. Also, if someone in squad ish strong enough to tank the bosses while stealing aggro from barb all the time, it might be actually better for squad for barb to go DD/support-mode using Devour and Frighten to help squad while doing more damage than by taking a single hit here and there.

There's 3 kinds of mobs: neutral, hostile and group-hostile. Neutral mobs attack only if they're debuffed or damaged. Most lowbie-mobs are like this.
Hostile mobs attack when anyone comes too near to them but the mobs around them don't get aggro'd when one goes attacking unless those mobs around are also hostile and you go near them. Majority of mobs in open map are like this.
Group-hostile mobs go aggressive if you attack, debuff or go near one of mobs nearby. Majority of mobs in instances are of this kind.

One important aspect of aggro ish so-called "initial aggro". When you go near a hostile mob or debuff a mob initial aggro ish formed. Initial aggro doesn't have any actual aggro formed(thus aggro-value 0), though, so any mob that has only initial aggro attacks anyone who heals anyone nearby or deals damage to that mob. When mob's aggro value changes to anything else from 0 due to heals or damage it attacks the one who healed or damaged.

The game considers healing as negative damage. Thus anyone using healing skills gets aggro of any aggressive mobs as their aggro-value changes from 0 to a negative value(Kitty thinks it's -1, nothing further). To save the poor healer someone needs to do actual damage to mobs to grab aggro of the mobs.

Giving buffs to a squadmate doesn't form any aggro since it's not considered healing or doing damage to mobs. Thus clerics can safely use Wings of Protection or pullers can be buffed mid-pull. IH and FP do cause heal aggro upon casting, but only that time. Thus it's safe to throw puller some IHs or FP until they have reached the first mobs' aggro range.
The only exception to this ish Mystic's Salvation's shield-buff that somehow makes mobs aggro the poor Salvie and mystic if Salvie dies. But if mystic summons Salvation again instantly after Salvie has given the buff the mobs lose their aggro on mystic. This needs very very good timing, though.

In general resummoning pets/letting pets die makes anything that has got initial aggro on them lose their aggro unless they've taken damage from pet's attacks. This ish the reason why venos and mystics can lure single mobs from hostile groups by using pets/summons as in a successful lure pet only attacks the intended target.

freygin · October 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

On top of that, roar and ream increase your agro to be the highest of all players interacting with the mob before adding that 20k. (dont believe any urban myths about resetting agro)

Keisari - Raging Tide wrote: »

If Kitty remembers right the actual
numbers of "invisible damage" for skills are the following:

Flesh Ream: 15k damage
Devour: 5k damage
Roar: 5k damage

Roar and Flesh Ream indeed rise the barb to the top of aggro list by rising barb's aggro to same level as highest DD and adding invinsible damage+actual damage from FR itself.

Ah I see, so those skills equalizing barb's aggro point as the highest DD plus invisible damage and damage dealt by the skill itself thus making a mob/boss switches aggro to barb at instant until the highest DD earlier/the other DDs in squad outdamage the barb again, I missed that important info from WannaBM's post earlier.

I'm curious about the invisible damage value from each of aggro skills, I think 5k is probably too low.

How about Sunder, does this skill also has invisible dmg value ? after using this skill I think barb's chi got filled with Bestial Rage. Armageddon seems to have that aggro effect as well (cmiiw). Invoke the Spirit also has it too I guess, bcoz if a barb goes to cleric's blue ball (blue circle now) after luring without casting Invoke the Spirit, mobs will go to cleric but does not happen if the barb casted Invoke the Spirit.

LangitBiru - Archosaur · October 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Yes agro is some kind of invisible damage.

roar, devour and ream each do about 20k of this invisible dmg (at lvl 11)
Stomp of the king does about 100k.

On top of that, roar and ream increase your agro to be the highest of all players interacting with the mob before adding that 20k. (dont believe any urban myths about resetting agro)

So for example:

1) Player does 100k of dmg to a boss. He now has 100k agro
2) Barb uses ream. His agro first gets increased to 100k. Ream does 25k damage. This is added as well as the invisible 20k is added. He now has 145k agro.
3) Player deals 50k damage to bring his total to 150k and steals agro.
4) barb now uses devour. Devour does 20k damage as well as 20k invisible damage. Total agro now goes up from 145 to 185. Barb has agro again.
5) Player makes a zerk crit for 200k damage bring his total to 350k and stealing agro yet again.
6) Barb now uses roar. This sets his agro 350k, equaling the DD, then adds 20k. The barb now has 370k agro.
7) Before player steals again, barb now uses stomp of the king right after roar. Stomp does 25k dmg and adds 100k invisible dmg. This brings his agro to 495k.
8) At last succes, the DD does not zerk crit, deals only 50k damage bringing his agro to 400k and not stealing it again

Therefore, the barb can tank in 2 ways. If he tanks in tiger form using ream aided by other agro skills, he will each time be brought to the top of the agro list. He can never lose agro for longer than the cooldown of ream. (2.5-3s) Then he will get it back.
His damage output however is rather low compared to other classes. (attacks in tigerform are somewhat slow and dont have much special effects for adding real damage) So during the cooldown of ream, equally geared DDs will most likely take agro again until you ream again. This is partial agro. It can be helpfull as you take away half the hits from the DD, or it can be anoying if it causes the boss to move around.

The other way is to tank by DD. This is what happens when you do mobless FW. The one who does the most damage is going to be tanking and using IG to take those 50k hits. Any class can tank by DD. The difference is that it is all or nothing. If a barb in tiger loses agro, he can always take it back. If you are tanking by DD and you lose agro, espescially for a barb who gets both chi and damage bonus from being hit, it probably means you wont get it back unless you revert to using agro skills.

Wow, this is a good explanation. Now I understand more about playing my barb, ty ty...

MrRiddle - Raging Tide · October 2014

How about Sunder, does this skill also has invisible dmg value ? after using this skill I think barb's chi got filled with Bestial Rage. Armageddon seems to have that aggro effect as well (cmiiw). Invoke the Spirit also has it too I guess, bcoz if a barb goes to cleric's blue ball (blue circle now) after luring without casting Invoke the Spirit, mobs will go to cleric but does not happen if the barb casted Invoke the Spirit.

sunder deals damage get DD aggro as well as small amount of heal aggro
Bestial Rage & Armageddon DD aggro
Invoke never herd this giving aggro but it may
not really something you should count on though

Mnemosyne - Morai · October 2014

Anyone knows how much aggro non-damage skills like cleric's seals, purify and bm's roar of pride do?

How does aggro mechanics work?

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