Some Veno Questions about our role

Alissarose - Sanctuary · October 2014

Hi everyone,

So, I've come back after a break and everything is new. Since coming back, I've been in PV (85+) twice and felt absolutely useless. The main leader (not sure if he was a blademaster or pshchic with two swords) ran around, gathered everything and aoe'd em all to death.

What is the veno role in PV?
I can cast two spells/skills in untamed form (parasitic nova and noxious gas ) to help with the AOE's. And the occassional Myriad Rainbow on one target.

Was wondering if Befuddling Mist in Fox form is AOE, it doesnt mention being used over xx meters. So I've always assumed it was for one target, so its still sitting on level 1.
Is it worth while maxing it?

Who do we buff these days?
Sins, BM, Barbs, Venos and Psychics, anyone else? I dont want to get yelled at and called a noob because I buff the wrong class.

I'm basically an AA Veno, I read on the forum you can put points into Vit, is this worth while?
I like to do my own stuff, and solo things. I can't always do that as a squishy AA Veno. I get my **** handed back to me on a plate with some end quest bosses. That really annoys me. I go through the whole quest chain, to find the last quest is an OP Boss that requires a team. b:cry

Lastly, again I felt very useless in TT3-1. First time in there and didnt really know what to do. All these level 100's running around and clearing everything. I was like... WTF!? It was over before it began... so to speak.

Anyways hopefully someone can help a noob out and shed some light for me. b:bye

Desdi - Sanctuary · October 2014

Alissarose - Sanctuary wrote: »

What is the veno role in PV?
I can cast two spells/skills in untamed form (parasitic nova and noxious gas ) to help with the AOE's. And the occassional Myriad Rainbow on one target.

AOE rotating Parasitic Nova and Noxious gas. Parasitic Nova is especially nice to throw before or after the Blademaster or the Psychic has AOE stunned the mobs.

Use Fox Form Myriad Rainbow when you get the chance. Pass chi to the Cleric if they BB or to the tank/puller if they need it. If you feel your DD isn't significant enough you can save your chi to pass it to the "big DDs" of your squad by simply asking in squad chat if someone needs chi.

Amplify Damage on the last boss if you kill it (some squads skip it for the sake of doing multi-runs) and Purge it if the boss has any self buffs.

Ask people if they want Bramble Guard buff or not.

In general, if your DD isn't good enough, you'll want to focus on support by debuffing and passing chi to allow others to use their skills and/or spark.

Was wondering if Befuddling Mist in Fox form is AOE, it doesnt mention being used over xx meters. So I've always assumed it was for one target, so its still sitting on level 1.
Is it worth while maxing it?

Befuddling Mist is a frontal AOE. I'm not sure what's the range though. You should level it so you can upgrade it to Grudge Strike later when you rebirth. At least if you're a Demon. The Sage one isn't a priority but still nice to have.

The accuracy debuff might help a bit but don't expect too much out of the skill. The damage will probably be low because you're an AA build but it's usually a decent filler skill while waiting for your Fox Form's cooldown.

Who do we buff these days?
Sins, BM, Barbs, Venos and Psychics, anyone else? I dont want to get yelled at and called a noob because I buff the wrong class.

It's better to simply ask your squad. If they don't bother answering you then buffing the puller/tank is usually a good idea, regardless of the class. Blademasters might have an issue with Bramble because of their leaps though.

If they yell at you for buffing, then point out that you asked and they didn't respond. You can't read people's mind if they don't answer.

If they tell you should have whispered them, then you can reply that you shouldn't have to whisper every person in squad when they are are supposed to pay attention in squad chat because.. you know..you're a squad that's about to do something. Well, unless you don't mind whispering each person individually.

I'm basically an AA Veno, I read on the forum you can put points into Vit, is this worth while?
I like to do my own stuff, and solo things. I can't always do that as a squishy AA Veno. I get my **** handed back to me on a plate with some end quest bosses. That really annoys me. I go through the whole quest chain, to find the last quest is an OP Boss that requires a team. b:cry

People often go for a Vit build prior acquiring G15/G16 Nirvana for better survival. However, your gear and refines will determine whether that extra Vit will help or not, G16 Nirvana alone won't help without some refines/shards.

I'd say... why not? Try out it.

When you rebirth your stats will be reset (and gain extra stats on top of it) so even if you go full Vit now you can re-stat later for free.

What kind of pets do you have? Venomancers with Hercules can solo a lot of stuff but if you don't own one, you can't be as effective. The Glacial Walker is really nice but without buffs it cannot compete with a Hercules. In some cases you just have to stay at max Heal Pet range to avoid being hit by AOEs.

Don't be ashamed if you have to ask for help though. You can pm me in-game. I'm happy to help, unless i'm busy doing something else of course.

Lastly, again I felt very useless in TT3-1. First time in there and didnt really know what to do. All these level 100's running around and clearing everything. I was like... WTF!? It was over before it began... so to speak.

Amplify Damage the bosses. Purge bosses if they have any self-buffs. Myriad (Human & Rainbow) when you have the chance. Ironwood for your physical DDs. Howl on pet for your magical DDs. (Unless you have a Cleric that debuffs.) Ask your squad if they need Bramble or chi. DD when you get the chance.

If you do those, you can't go wrong. If the squad has such gear that just rolls through the instance, don't feel bad. They probably didn't need your "help" and probably didn't care about what you do as long as you don't die.

In those situations where you feel like you're too weak to make any significant contribution, the best thing you can do is to stay alive. I know the feeling of being "useless" might suck but like I said... they probably don't care whether you contribute or not.

For example, I can solo most BHs myself. All of them except EU which requires a team due to the relay race. Otherwise I really don't need anyone's help so when I invite people I don't really need them to do anything. I just want to give them the chance to complete their own BH too.

It might sound hurtful but that's how it is b:surrender

Alissarose - Sanctuary · October 2014

That's very comprehensive, Thank You Desdi for the feedback. b:victory

I went sage veno, my damage is good for 89 I guess, but not when competing with lvl 100+ or even 90+ somethings for that matter. My Magical damage is 4550-6247 (I think that's good, I have no one to compare with); my physical damage is laughable. I have pulled agro from my pets in the past. So, I wait for the health of the mob to reduce before I start. I never spark, I tend to save those for bramble hood. Or give 'em away with Helping Hand if I'm in a squad.

People often go for a Vit build prior acquiring G15/G16 Nirvana for better survival. However, your gear and refines will determine whether that extra Vit will help or not, G16 Nirvana alone won't help without some refines/shards.

I'd say... why not? Try out it.

With my gear it goes from normal 68 vit to 80 giving me just over 4000HP @ lvl 89

Amplify Damage the bosses. Purge bosses if they have any self-buffs

Yeah Can Do, Will Do and Done

What kind of pets do you have?

I have the Herc and Nix. I use my little bear if I dont have to tank, as he has bleed, magic reduction and physical reduction skills. So yeah I pretty much do all my own BH's if I do them at all. Except Nob and Pole and def NOT any BH 89's at the moment. Not keen on BH's as its tedious, I'd rather go quest.

Thanks again Desdi for the feedback.

Cheers
b:bye

Desdi - Sanctuary · October 2014

Alissarose - Sanctuary wrote: »

I went sage veno, my damage is good for 89 I guess, but not when competing with lvl 100+ or even 90+ somethings for that matter. My Magical damage is 4550-6247 (I think that's good, I have no one to compare with); my physical damage is laughable. I have pulled agro from my pets in the past. So, I wait for the health of the mob to reduce before I start. I never spark, I tend to save those for bramble hood. Or give 'em away with Helping Hand if I'm in a squad.

I don't have anyone to compare it with either so I don't know how good that is either b:laugh but I believe you're right with saying your damage is good for your level. You definitely can't compete with the 100s but don't worry too much about it. You're still in the process of leveling up and gearing up after all.

According to screenshots I had 6k-7k magic attack at lvl9x with a Wheel of Denied Fate +6 (TT90 weapon). Almost pure magic, 30Vit.

With my gear it goes from normal 68 vit to 80 giving me just over 4000HP @ lvl 89

That's reasonable. It will be more once you get new gear, I assume TT90 set.

I used to run around in 30Vit at lvl90 for no other reason than me being too cheap to restat to pure magic back then. I had 4601-5188HP with TT90 +5 gear at lvl92 and 98 respectively, gear upgrades/changes occurred (cape, ornaments). This is based on the screenshots I have from that time.

I also found a screenshot of my stats at lvl99. I had 4k physical defence in Fox Form, 7k magic defence, 8k magic attack (Neon Purgatory +5, gold Lunar weapon). At lvl100 I run around in 5.3k-5.6k HP for a long time until I started refining my R8 beyond +5 and getting other gear upgrades...in your case though you'll want to opt for Nirvana gear and get it to G16. R8 was the old times.

I survived well enough in with that. I suppose you can use this as a reference, though I'd probably tell you to try getting more than just 4k physical defence in Form Form... that sounds too low haha.

The rest is up to you. Bramble Hood as you mentioned. Do you have Feral Concentration? That's really nice! You'll need Fortify on genie though. Stay back, at max range to heal pet if you're pet-tanking. Stay at max range whenever possible even in squads. Some bosses have frontal AOEs so just hide behind their back. There's also Soul Transfusion! Later on you'll also be able to get the Morai skill Blazing Barrier which is a weaker version of Bramble Hood and it costs less chi so you can throw that out here and there or stack it with Bramble Hood itself.

Bosses usually have animations when they are about to AOE or they say something in squad. You can try keeping an eye on that so you know when it's safe to run close to use Amplify. Also don't forget Absolute Domain on your genie.

On another note, Hercules generally loses some of its tanking power at level 90+ because of the bosses but it will be better once you can evolve it. It's true that it's going to be affected by your gear but even then it should have a nice boost that will allow it to tank a little better and have a much more powerful aggro skill. Then there's the variety of mood skills to increase its DD or defence.

Vit build is nice for pets because it allows them to inherit more HP from you. Evolved pets' damage is affected by your gear only, not your magic attack so your pets won't have weaker DD than pure magic Venomancers (assuming same weapon + weapon refine).

Once you get your "endgame" gear, which I assume it's going to be G16 Nirvana, and have it all refined and sharded (+5 refines and exclusive shards should be easy), then you might want to consider dropping some of your Vit or not, but that's a discussion for another day.

Glad to help b:thanks

Alissarose - Sanctuary · October 2014

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's reasonable. It will be more once you get new gear, I assume TT90 set.

Yeah, my gear at the moment is pretty shoddy, all level 70-80. So def looking at upgrading once I reach lvl 90. My weapon at the moment is lv 79 Glaives of Divinity +4

The rest is up to you. Bramble Hood as you mentioned. Do you have Feral Concentration? That's really nice! You'll need Fortify on genie though...

...Also don't forget Absolute Domain on your genie.

No I don't have Feral Concentration, I'll look at getting that.
Thanks for the hints on genie. I'll look into that as well.

I also found a screenshot of my stats at lvl99. I had 4k physical defence in Fox Form, 7k magic defence, 8k magic attack (Neon Purgatory +5, gold Lunar weapon). At lvl100 I run around in 5.3k-5.6k HP for a long time until I started refining my R8 beyond +5 and getting other gear upgrades...in your case though you'll want to opt for Nirvana gear and get it to G16. R8 was the old times.

Just checked my stats, I have 7100 Elemental Resist now. Maybe between now and 99, I should put points into strength? as my Physical Def is very low, 799.

Cheers b:victory
b:bye

Desdi - Sanctuary · October 2014

Nah, no need to put Str. Are you using elemental ornaments? You might just need to grab some protection/physical ornaments instead. There's some cheap ones like the Sky Demon's Pearl (lvl87 I think) and Eye of Jungle (lvl40) which are pretty decent.

Later on you can search the AH for some lvl95+ ornaments or OHT ornaments with some Vit+ adds or something. Then when you complete your Chrono quest one day you can get a really neat belt which I used for a very long time until I was able to get a Warsong belt.

Do you have elemental ornaments with -Channeling? You can keep those and use them when you DD on bosses with no AOEs or when you pet-tank and have to heal a lot then swap to physical ornaments when you have to deal with other things.

I'd also suggest searching for OHT rings, Dream of Reality, which are for lvl94. People still make those and sometimes you might find some nice adds like lots of Vit+ or Vit and -Channeling or whatever else. Those tend to be rather cheap usually.

Then at lvl95 you'll be able to get a Cape of Elite Leather. The cape is not too expensive either and it gives physical defence and HP. It's a good option until you are able to make your Nirvana gears.

I think once you can slowly start upgrading your gear at level 9x, your survivability will become better.

Alissarose - Sanctuary · October 2014

Thanks very much, I have a few things to check out and change etc.

Much appreciated.
Cheers
b:bye

Bezdna - Dreamweaver · October 2014

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nah, no need to put Str.

I find this very arguable. The only real reason not to put points into STR is if you're choosing to abandon 1/4 of your skill tree. Especially now with extra stat points from rebirth, it's not difficult to have 350+ points of both STR and MAG, which makes you truly versatile (as in, equally badass in both forms).

Desdi - Sanctuary · October 2014

Bezdna - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I find this very arguable. The only real reason not to put points into STR is if you're choosing to abandon 1/4 of your skill tree. Especially now with extra stat points from rebirth, it's not difficult to have 350+ points of both STR and MAG, which makes you truly versatile (as in, equally badass in both forms).

The OP was asking whether they should put Str to increase their physical defence, between lvl90 and 99, to which I answered no.
That's not enough spare points to make a significant difference. They are better off putting whatever they have left in Vit and change to protection/physical ornaments and start improving their gear to TT90.

In my opinion, if someone wants to distribute points the way you said, they might as well go for a HA build to take the most advantage out of it. Of course, it's up to each individual to do whatever they want with their toons as long as they are having fun. Someone might be curious to try it out.

And don't forget gear! My fox attacks hit well, I use them regularly, and I'm a pure Mag build but, of course, that's only because of my gear.

morenawolf · October 2014

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

And don't forget gear! My fox attacks hit well, I use them regularly, and I'm a pure Mag build but, of course, that's only because to my gear.

I make decent damage with my G15 and I'm pure mag

I usually attack as fox when the enemy have magic defense increased, so I support my Imperial Skeleton with Befudding Mist and Fox Wallop. Before the evolution of my pets I often used the fox form attacks to not steal too much aggro, it's been very useful during my loooong TT90 gears. Now with the mood Provoking on my Supreme Walker and Radical on my Imperial Skeleton I never get a hit

Jadsia - Lost City · October 2014

I would also recommend using PW Calculator to plan your desired builds ahead of time. It doesn't include stats from title quests or cards. Just standard gear before all that funky rebirth stuff. It helped me design my combination HA/AA hybrid build when I was 9x -10x before I got r8. I crafted stats from gear, tomes, and level so that I was able to switch from HA to AA to fit what I was planning to fight. It helped me farm TT more efficiently against bosses which were melee and ranged.

PW Calc can be found here: http://pwcalc.com/

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