What's wrong with sins?

nbreaking wrote: »

Are you sure? I am not going to disagree about the physical immune boss in FS, I will pay attention the next time, but, at least on the physical immune mobs in SoT, if you use condensed thorn you can inflict subsea's debuff, that I am sure. I also know for a fact that it does not affect the elemental immune one, are you sure you are not mixing them up?

Oh I was talking about the physical immune boss in flowsilver being like that, not physical immune in general.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Thing is, the anti-aps buff isnt same on every boss. Puppeteer I used to aps as dmg difference wasnt much and apsing allows sparking more freely, which has its advantages. FSP bosses have far stronger anti-aps buff on them than puppeteer does. I havent done CoA on sin in ages so I cant say I have tested how aps does there but just because bosses got same buff icon doesnt mean its the same buff.

If that is the case, it's about time PWI's actually tells us what we are dealing with. It's a pipe dream, i know.b:surrender

Liveena - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Those sins are probably relic sins from days of Nirvana or FF/FC, now with ra and primal skills skill spamming sins can deal more damage.

Are you even aware how hard it is for your average sin to even get these skills? Don't make it sound as easy as getting say Demon HF. They aren't even comparable.

In FS, squad with decent gear, triple spark, multiple debuffs and skill spamming can kill bosses faster. I've been in squad where bm/sin just apsing bosses (they didn't even know how to interupt blossom boss), and guess what, they also didnt listen to squad instruction to switch to skill spamming with CoD, I guess those type of player are the one who didnt understand english or just plain ignorant.

False dichotomy. Some just don't care, but if you actually played this game enough you would know that. Or you do, and you think this sounds smarter, well it doesn't. Seriously do you listen to everything someone tells you?

Even my BM rarely use aps anymore since skill spamming deals more damage. Aps can still be use on some area like RB bosses or tt, but it shouldn't be the only way to play bm/sin.

Strawman. No one said it was, but some people choose to, just like if a caster chooses to wear chan ornies instead of pdef. It's no different.

b:surrender I guess most aps sin/bm never truly learn their class and prefer the lazy way to play via aps. Once I saw a bm in cage guard in primal, he lure all the guards, then start apsing them one by one b:cry

Learning your class and choosing to be lazy are two different things. It's stupid to say that choosing to be lazy=not knowing your class, and you run the high risk of being hypocritical. How about anytime you set up BB we say "You don't know your class". It's moronic at best.

I have witnessed bms and sins apsing away in fsp. Yeah most realise their mistake after the squad tells them.

I dont understand how some can see that their damage is so low and not question why though?

I laugh everytime I see a sin R9rrr its like a total waste of money/coin.

OPKossy wrote: »

Yes. And I bet you're also the only one who checks the buff/debuff icons of various members in your squad as well too. Ain't nobody got time to spend two seconds looking at a boss or their damage log cause we gotta APS APS APS man!

not rly i aslo check buff icons on bosses or enemies. I got to say that very rarely i check the icons on my squad mates but the reason of that is am aslo kinda busy in squad(for example if i am tanking toad on sin the 2 sec i take too look at freinds buff/debuff may cost my life) and i am not a cleric or mystic with the squad heal/puri ability b:chuckle


but yah i aslo can see the diffrence in fsp bosses and pupeters anti-aps debuffs. Since i can deal good dmg to pupet with aps that won't work in fsp.(my max hits on fsp bosses was about 250k with life hunter, am using non zerk weapon and aps set)

And one more thing about fsp that most of ppl forget: aps is still usefull on first boss if u interupt his channeling at start. He won't get buffed with hp buff, def lvl buff and anti aps buff if u do that alright. Then u can jsut spark and aps solo kill him when ur spark ends. If i fail interupting then i swich to bow to purge him, when that's done i put chill on to dph kill him.
And yah proper fsp run can take from 10 to 15 min if u have non-fail squad.

but what's aslo anoying in fsp the clerics don't ussualy purify the expel on tank b:angry

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

There are some circumstances when aps is still higher dps than using skills. I have many of times pulled agro just using a g16 bow ( sparked, debuffed ect). I routinely use a bow in fs as i deal more dot with a bow rather than with skills.

Bow is considered APSing and ignores the anti-APS buff.

Of course, close range damage penalty kicks in for most of the bosses in that situation anyways so... yeah. b:chuckle

OPKossy wrote: »

Bow is considered APSing and ignores the anti-APS buff.

Of course, close range damage penalty kicks in for most of the bosses in that situation anyways so... yeah. b:chuckle

Yes I am aware of that, that is why I use a bow at range not in melee range... I do have an archer... My point is the bosses defenses come into play when using daggers/fists ect so the dmg reduction will vary.

An example, in coa on the frost giant even with his anti-aps I still deal 10-15k against him, in fs on toad i average 1-2k. With a bow I do 30-100k (depending on debuffs) in aps gear At Range

I have 5APS sin +7 most stuff.

From a sin point of view I must just say !!!

APSing in FS is......not on....

Please just remember not all sins are braindead APSers.... Some of us actually use our multitude of skills.....

Unfortunately it is like real life..... 1 bad incident with a motorbike and ALL bikers are bad....
same with sin -

All i ask is dont judge ALL sins based on your experience of some...


PS
yes i am a biker as well b:laugh

XLeeu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have 5APS sin +7 most stuff.

From a sin point of view I must just say !!!

APSing in FS is......not on....

Please just remember not all sins are braindead APSers.... Some of us actually use our multitude of skills.....

Unfortunately it is like real life..... 1 bad incident with a motorbike and ALL bikers are bad....
same with sin -

All i ask is dont judge ALL sins based on your experience of some...


PS
yes i am a biker as well b:laugh

Yes Sins is not about aps that what ignorant people think,but things have changed since primal.
(In my opinion primal was a big mistake and it mess up this game badly)

We sins have to keep up ribstrike(or life hunter) so the boss hits us less time.

We have to keep up buff like tidal protection, deaden nerves and focused mind up.

Sometimes is a bad idea to use those buff before the fight and is more efficient to use them in the middle of the fight (For example second boss in FC
Its a bad idea to use tidal protection before his HP is half also use maze steps during 1/4 of boss hp when he goes mad casting bubble over and over.

Another example is warsong last boss you should cast tidal protection in the middle of the battle not before to protect from the aoe purge.

We have to use wolf emblem>triple spark>inner harmony-rising dragon strike>power dash>genie skill either extreme poison or Tangling Mire.
Also you have to think ahead and not rely on BM because they usually cast HF before you even spark which is annoying.
Do not rely on clerics many clerics are lazy or they keep healing the tank when you are the one holding aggro.
Most clerics are unreliable.
Rely on absolute domain or inmune to damage appo.

Also sins before we had to rely on triple spark to be inmune to damage to bosses special attack that require skill and precision especially when those bosses did damage = to half your hp. 3= shots you are dead.

Another thing is TT we have to know when a boss going to do an attack by reading what they saying.


Sins use Tackling Slash on kiting mobs so others melee can hit it too.

Sins use Knife throw to cancel bosses attacks like Warsong Ape Spark skill or cancel water boss aoe stun.


Sins use Subsea Strike + Earthen Rift to do aoe damage and help do more damage during a pull.

Sins use Subsea Strike when BM cast HF to make the debuff into 130%(demon) or 150%(sage) damage. Yes subsea and HF they both Stack together!

We use Maze steps to be inmune to skills like bubbles/sleep/stun/ that bosses use.

We use Spell Cutter to cancel FSP 3rd boss healing skill or TT boss skills.

We can do pullls more effective that most class because of tidal protection.

We can use Healing Trance to tank damage from boss when someone died and needs to come back in warsong.

We 1 shot bosses in FSP .b:laugh

We use Throatcut + Tackling Slash to make water mobs not cast bubble.

Yes! we sins used to do many of those before primal era using aps gear.

OPKossy wrote: »

The above post is accurate for what good sins could do.

The problem? The vast majority of sins were NOT good. At all. Even the folks who mained melee that I've ran into were mostly horrible sins... and pretty much everyone who's been in random squads can list off a multitude of times stupid sins not doing any of the many things they can (and should) do has managed to get them, or others, killed. And then when offered advice, they'll usually refuse to listen.

Yeah, every class has their idiots like this, but it's extremely noticeable on sins because there are so damn many of them who fit the stereotype compared to even things like the stupid metal maging clerics that never heal anyone or the BMs who never use anything but APS ever, and so on and so forth. Sure, there are good sins who can do all you've mentioned and more... but they're the extreme minority when it comes to the class and are the reason topics like this show up so much.

Actually I just tagged that post, it will help me when using my **** semi-aps farming sin to act like a semi-real sin in instances... I knew half of the trick, but the other half was actually instructive xD

Except this one, that I will sadly asume it's trolling: "We 1 shot bosses in FSP "

Still, would be nice lol

Xinnz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

hes probably referring to using death chain on the 1st boss in fsp and running to the fire

This would work? b:shocked