PvP Question
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Demodude - Dreamweaver
Posts: 397 Arc User
So I am a full demon pve aps build. But i was wondering, on the occasional week that I decide to do NW, should I use CotD and skill spam or still go with aps?
ChayalBoded 102/102/101 Celestial Sage Rank 9 Assassin
English is my second language sorry that I mess up sometimes
Tempest b:dirty
English is my second language sorry that I mess up sometimes
Tempest b:dirty
Post edited by Demodude - Dreamweaver on
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Skill spam or you'll risk procing the purify proc, without a damn awesome bm around they will run RAMPANT/unchallenged for the most part anyways, hell even with one that has all of their skills if they didn't prepare properly the proc is still quite pesky/annoying even with a bm around. (Though far more manageable/more likely that you can actually aps something/the purify proc wont run >as< wild.Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »Skill spam or you'll risk procing the purify proc, without a damn awesome bm around they will run RAMPANT/unchallenged for the most part anyways, hell even with one that has all of their skills if they didn't prepare properly the proc is still quite pesky/annoying even with a bm around. (Though far more manageable/more likely that you can actually aps something/the purify proc wont run >as< wild.
Sorry Slivaf but you are wrong here. Even with the purify proc, the enemy is not garanteed to run away, and there is always throat cut if they do. Also, casters, and more specifically, r9rr casters, are not the only enemy you will fight in NW.
In general, if you weapon is highly refined, the casters will be dead before they can even react, or they will be fooled into thinking they can tank it and kill you (I've killed many r9rr clerics this way through plume shell).
But stick with the APS unless you have lifehunter. Skill spamming in APS is a bad joke. Why wear APS gear and not use it's strenght? Skill spamming surely isn't it.0 -
DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Sorry Slivaf but you are wrong here. Even with the purify proc, the enemy is not garanteed to run away, and there is always throat cut if they do. Also, casters, and more specifically, r9rr casters, are not the only enemy you will fight in NW.
In general, if you weapon is highly refined, the casters will be dead before they can even react, or they will be fooled into thinking they can tank it and kill you (I've killed many r9rr clerics this way through plume shell).
But stick with the APS unless you have lifehunter. Skill spamming in APS is a bad joke. Why wear APS gear and not use it's strenght? Skill spamming surely isn't it.
What kind of tactic is that? Relying on the stupidity/stubbornness of a very select few people. Sounds like a insanely quick way to get burned by those who are actually smart enough to move, which I find there to be quite a few.
A tactic that relies on the stupidity of your foe, is bound to fail repeatedly especially if they catch wind of it/are capable of changing/more than just 'one' to focus on.
As for the the bit about playing aps too its strength, I feel its just the way the status quo goes, stop helping casters get the purify proc to proc, and having them run off with the flag/away from the controller... not too mention the erasing of debuffs/amps that the purify proc does... making it that much harder to actually kill them.Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »What kind of tactic is that? Relying on the stupidity/stubbornness of a very select few people. Sounds like a insanely quick way to get burned by those who are actually smart enough to move, which I find there to be quite a few.
A tactic that relies on the stupidity of your foe, is bound to fail repeatedly especially if they catch wind of it/are capable of changing/more than just 'one' to focus on.
As for the the bit about playing aps too its strength, I feel its just the way the status quo goes, stop helping casters get the purify proc to proc, and having them run off with the flag/away from the controller... not too mention the erasing of debuffs/amps that the purify proc does... making it that much harder to actually kill them.
Few problem with this.Most players are in fact stupid or stubborn, this has been proven time and time again. Why not take advantage of that? It doesn't rely 'purely' on their stupidity, it just capitalizes on it. It punishes mistakes, which is what sins are VERY good at. Once again, this has nothing to do with DPS. I encourage you to play a sin with a DPS AND DPH gear set....Oh wait.
And about your last bit there, it makes too many assumptions. It assumes that there is even a flag to begin with(crystal contest and bridge battles make up over half of NW and don't have flags), and that this said caster has the flag. That was an error of judegement on your part. Also don't you think that a sin spaming skills that do NO DAMAGE also helps the caster? It's stupid to aps a caster with the flag, and the fact you felt the need to point that out is the attitude I'm sick of.
We are not stupid, we are sins.
I have both r9rr and APS sets, you think I would know what I am talking about. Where is your experience with the sin class? You are arguing from ignorance now.
Skill spamming in APS, especially if you don't have zerk or a +11/12 wep, is a waste of time. Your skills won't do enough damage even with chill to even come close to the DPS of APS. And since APS sets are lacking on def/atk levels, and massive amounts of dex, this gap is widened.This is a fact.0 -
DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Few problem with this.Most players are in fact stupid or stubborn, this has been proven time and time again. Why not take advantage of that? It doesn't rely 'purely' on their stupidity, it just capitalizes on it. It punishes mistakes, which is what sins are VERY good at. Once again, this has nothing to do with DPS. I encourage you to play a sin with a DPS AND DPH gear set....Oh wait.
And about your last bit there, it makes too many assumptions. It assumes that there is even a flag to begin with(crystal contest and bridge battles make up over half of NW and don't have flags), and that this said caster has the flag. That was an error of judegement on your part. Also don't you think that a sin spaming skills that do NO DAMAGE also helps the caster? It's stupid to aps a caster with the flag, and the fact you felt the need to point that out is the attitude I'm sick of.
We are not stupid, we are sins.
I have both r9rr and APS sets, you think I would know what I am talking about. Where is your experience with the sin class? You are arguing from ignorance now.
Skill spamming in APS, especially if you don't have zerk or a +11/12 wep, is a waste of time. Your skills won't do enough damage even with chill to even come close to the DPS of APS. And since APS sets are lacking on def/atk levels, and massive amounts of dex, this gap is widened.This is a fact.
Why the insult? Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you have to resort to insults (even slight one like "arguing from ignorance.")
You ask about my experience? I have a sin, which does have aps gear on all the time, but instead of herpa derpa on the new anti aps things I use it's skills, between the passives, the anti aps buff, chill of the deep, my sin even with its unrefined weapon/aps set can still dish out a good chunk of damage on those anti aps bosses. (Sure this isn't pvp, but there are certain things that can be slightly carried over from pve, especially defensive skills like for example marrows, invoke etc, or even attack skills like MSS/HF/GS/Subsea etc. Obviously pve doesn't even come close to preparing people for pvp, but it is a bit of a stepping stone imho.) Not to mention obviously its damage would be increased by the g16 daggers.
I get it is a strategy that is effective for you alone, but I for one think it is a bad strategy as it will absolutely have the high chance or proccing the purify proc and erasing all of the better debuffs away from the caster... even if we assume they don't run away that alone is enough for most casters to just sit in one spot and hope for a lucky proc. (Yes its true a lot of people are stubborn/stupid/have gotten lazy with the purify proc, but there is good reason for it.) Why run when you have an aps sin who can't kill you constantly proccing your overpowered proc? Erasing the debuffs that can boost someones damage just enough to ACTUALLY kill you. -To me it kind of makes sense why there is a few who wont run away from an apsing sin.-
I still feel it is a bad strategy at best, but it does seem to be working on you... I just don't like how much it seems to rely on others being stupid/stubborn, even if there is quite a few who are like that, because when someone is capable of tanking the aps damage, and that proc... goes off... and they are smart enough to kite/get away... there will be hell to pay, as I have said before a proc that completely erases what a class does is NOT fun... erasing our 2 spark debuffs <<. and our stuns... due to your apsing... it is one of the many reasons why many bms have gotten downright frustrated with the proc/mass pvp.
As for the bit about aps sets lacking atk/def powers it really depends on whether its sharded or not (Which is indeed highly unlikekly) but what is likely... is that most aps sets will have the g16 daggers for atk lvl, with some int to them which is quite effective regardless if your apsing, or skill spamming. (Talking more about the atk lvl)Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »Why the insult? Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you have to resort to insults (even slight one like "arguing from ignorance.")
You ask about my experience? I have a sin, which does have aps gear on all the time, but instead of herpa derpa on the new anti aps things I use it's skills, between the passives, the anti aps buff, chill of the deep, my sin even with its unrefined weapon/aps set can still dish out a good chunk of damage on those anti aps bosses. (Sure this isn't pvp, but there are certain things that can be slightly carried over from pve, especially defensive skills like for example marrows, invoke etc, or even attack skills like MSS/HF/GS/Subsea etc. Obviously pve doesn't even come close to preparing people for pvp, but it is a bit of a stepping stone imho.) Not to mention obviously its damage would be increased by the g16 daggers.
I get it is a strategy that is effective for you alone, but I for one think it is a bad strategy as it will absolutely have the high chance or proccing the purify proc and erasing all of the better debuffs away from the caster... even if we assume they don't run away that alone is enough for most casters to just sit in one spot and hope for a lucky proc. (Yes its true a lot of people are stubborn/stupid/have gotten lazy with the purify proc, but there is good reason for it.) Why run when you have an aps sin who can't kill you constantly proccing your overpowered proc? Erasing the debuffs that can boost someones damage just enough to ACTUALLY kill you. -To me it kind of makes sense why there is a few who wont run away from an apsing sin.-
I still feel it is a bad strategy at best, but it does seem to be working on you... I just don't like how much it seems to rely on others being stupid/stubborn, even if there is quite a few who are like that, because when someone is capable of tanking the aps damage, and that proc... goes off... and they are smart enough to kite/get away... there will be hell to pay, as I have said before a proc that completely erases what a class does is NOT fun... erasing our 2 spark debuffs <<. and our stuns... due to your apsing... is exactly why many bms have gotten downright frustrated with the proc/mass pvp.
As for the bit about aps sets lacking atk/def powers it really depends on whether its sharded or not (Which is indeed highly unlikekly) but what is likely... is that most aps sets will have the g16 daggers for atk lvl, with some int to them which is quite effective regardless if your apsing, or skill spamming.
Arguing from ignorance isn't an insult fyi. It's a logical fallacy, used to dictate a lack of knowledge.
You have a sin, that doesn't even have g16 daggers? Did you know that G16 at 5.0 has the same output to skill spamming with the same daggers? Attack levels matter, but in PvP, there is no anti aps buff on everyone, so this argument is moot, at best. Also a sin doesnt have HF, GS, MS, and other debuffs/amps a BM has. We only get subsea and ribstrike. You are using the wrong argument for the wrong class.
You argument assumes that the only thing you will be attacking in NW is casters, false. It's effective exactly for the reason I just said, casters are not your only targets. Also r9rr casters at that. You still dont seem to understand that skill spamming a caster and doing no damage is equally as bad as apsing said caster. Only 1 of these options actually gives you a chance to net a kill however. And saying it's only effective for me alone? Is flat out false. May I even remind you how many times heavy geared r9rr casters have fallen to people along the likes of Gatoz, and Mezurashii, with APS. WHy? Because it's DPS is unmatched, and properly played you can kill even a barb by yourself.
Once again you go on arguing about bm's debuff's. BM's this...BM's that..this is the sin forums bro. There is no it works for me in this case, it works because it is unmatched in what it does. We are talking about using a SIN, not a BM. Get over it.
Like i said, you are arguing from ignorance. That is not an insult, this is a fact.
If you have an APS (non r8r) set, then APS. If you have a DPH set, then DPS. Don't gimp your damage just to be a hipster, unless you want to do something for fun. I'm giving objective thoughts, how i feel has nothing to do with this. I prefer DPH, but APS still has uses, I'm not going to act like it doesn't when i see casters getting it rammed in by APS, regularly.0 -
DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »*Snip*
The reason I keep using bms as an example is because they are the best example. (they do the stuns, and debuff more than any other class, purify proc can, will and has erased both of these on far too many occasions. Apsing causes the proc to have a much higher chance of procing erasing both of stuns and the dbuffs... thanks goodness for paralyze.) Chill of the deep slows down the attacks per seconds, which essentially as a side effect lowers the chance of the purify proc processing. (which is what is needed so stuns, debuffs etc don't get wiped off of casters.) Obviously casters aren't the only one out there, the same also can be said about any attack absolutely risks making the proc happen. As soon as you wipe those stuns/debuffs away from the caster they'll be free to attack you/anyone around you and if they are powerful they can make you easily pay without even moving a step, while also taking less damage thanks to the removal of the debuffs.)
Sure as you have been saying it is still quite an effective option, but those who you can't kill like that, that do have the purify proc/are smart enough to run away WILL do so, and WILL make you/others pay for YOUR stubborness/willingness to think aps is supreme/will kill them before they run away.
The simple truth of the matter is that your tactic wont always work, nor will you always be able to kill before the run away/get the proc to process. Which means you essentially gave them a free out due to you thinking aps is supreme/making it happen faster due to the apsing. (yes to be fair, neither does chill keep the purify proc from happening, but it DOES make it FAR less likely that it will happen.)
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"Arguing from ignorance," insults my intelligence/not understanding anything about pvp... specifically about sins, now obviously there is no way in hell i can understand it all, ergo that is why I made it a point to say 'even a slight one' still I do understand a few things.
Furthermore it isn't a 'fact' its YOUR opinion, and you are only looking at the benefits from one side, while seemingly ignoring the HIGH COST side effects that CAN come with the willingness to aps away on something.
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As I said your right it does have its benefits and there are times where it continues to shine through, but there ARE also quite a few times where it really IS best to not herpa derp, essentially risking the process of the purify proc... especially against the casters who are smart enough to run away. (Most people don't seem to be smart enough to know the difference, and will erase the debuffs, and stuns from others due to their ill-advised (IMHO) decision/suggestion to just aps it out and hope you can kill your opponent before they run away/do something to keep you from attacking, I.E kill you, stun you, kite away etc.
EDIT: What I'm trying to say, is that it is impossible to know when your opponent might not be stupid enough to not run away, nor is apsing a true guarantee way of killing others before, or even after the purify proc happens, and if you do make the purify proc happen it WILL make it harder to take down said caster, whether they're kiting or not.Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Adapt to the situation your in. DPH can hit like a truck, so can APS however. If your dealing bad damage using skills, deal more bad damage in the same space of time through APS. Its the same as a BM being a Fist/Axe/Pole user. Adapt. If I see a Cleric running around in Ultraviolet with a R9s3 weapon im not going to try and skill spam it, because chances are I wont do any damage. The best bet is to get in as many hits as quickly as possible before they can react. That either involves using a Primal Skill (Cursed Jail/Elimination) or APS. I would rather go Primal, but APS is completely viable. Alternintivly if I see a BM I know is tough, im going to try and shut it down because I know if I try to APS it I will just get stunned and killed because BM's hit like a truck xD
We have a guy on HT; UR_END. He is in full APS gear +12, and APS's against most targets, yet can survive most fights against 3+ from some of our top factions players. He uses the class to its full effectiveness and knows how to play it.
People rage hard.
Killing fully decked +12 JOSD people in APS gear is the ultimate troll b:laughCrafting shiny things since 2008 b:laugh
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
.... Frankly, I don't get why any of you are even trying to APS casters with high-end gear and purify spell. If you see your skills aren't dealing damage, switch over to trying to CC them instead. You'll minimize purify's chance of **** you over, lock down an opponent that can potentially crush your team if left unchecked, and potentially force use of genie/apoth for them to escape said lock. All of which are far more useful than making purify go off and then getting killed for your efforts. Because odds are that if your skills are doing **** for damage then they can likely charm tank you APSing them... which benefits them and them alone.
Of course, you can always choose to try and act like a DD against a target you shouldn't be DDing on like the lowbies in NW everyone complains about being cannon fodder that only serve to boost points for their killers as well as proc purify. In fact, I highly welcome all the sins and BMs that APS me when I'm on an Endgame caster because they do nothing more than ensure that I become immune to CCs and have free reign to do as I please. And since their own allies can't kill them, I often find myself letting them live just so they can continue being ignorant, stubborn, and/or stupid towards my benefit.
Kinda sad to see that now we're offering advice that assumes our opponents are completely brain dead. Used to be that we'd assume the people we gave advice to had enough sense to know they could treat idiots with ineffective strategies and be fine, so we'd offer them advice based on the assumption that they were fighting someone they'd need advice to have a chance against in the first place.(Insert fancy image here)
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FaithDread - Heavens Tear wrote: »We have a guy on HT; UR_END. He is in full APS gear +12, and APS's against most targets, yet can survive most fights against 3+ from some of our top factions players. He uses the class to its full effectiveness and knows how to play it.
lol kossy, when you have so many posts like this.Kinda sad to see that now we're offering advice that assumes our opponents are completely brain dead. Used to be that we'd assume the people we gave advice to had enough sense to know they could treat idiots with ineffective strategies and be fine, so we'd offer them advice based on the assumption that they were fighting someone they'd need advice to have a chance against in the first place.
Assuming people are brain dead is perfectly reasonable.0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »The reason I keep using bms as an example is because they are the best example. (they do the stuns, and debuff more than any other class, purify proc can, will and has erased both of these on far too many occasions. Apsing causes the proc to have a much higher chance of procing erasing both of stuns and the dbuffs... thanks goodness for paralyze.) Chill of the deep slows down the attacks per seconds, which essentially as a side effect lowers the chance of the purify proc processing. (which is what is needed so stuns, debuffs etc don't get wiped off of casters.) Obviously casters aren't the only one out there, the same also can be said about any attack absolutely risks making the proc happen. As soon as you wipe those stuns/debuffs away from the caster they'll be free to attack you/anyone around you and if they are powerful they can make you easily pay without even moving a step, while also taking less damage thanks to the removal of the debuffs.)
Sins only have 1 amp, and 1 debuff. We dont have to worry about that nearly as much as BM's do concerning removal of debuffs. Which is exactly why I said you can't use a BM as an example. It's compare apples, to oranges. But at the same time, I've learned to deal with puri, easily.
Sure as you have been saying it is still quite an effective option, but those who you can't kill like that, that do have the purify proc/are smart enough to run away WILL do so, and WILL make you/others pay for YOUR stubborness/willingness to think aps is supreme/will kill them before they run away.
I hate it when people ignore part of my post where i address strawmans, particularly "WILL make you/others pay for YOUR stubborness/willingness to think aps is supreme/will kill them before". I never said APS was supreme. I simply said play to the strength of your gear, is that such bad advice is MOST situations?
The simple truth of the matter is that your tactic wont always work, nor will you always be able to kill before the run away/get the proc to process. Which means you essentially gave them a free out due to you thinking aps is supreme/making it happen faster due to the apsing. (yes to be fair, neither does chill keep the purify proc from happening, but it DOES make it FAR less likely that it will happen.)
Truth of the matter is I never said it will ALWAYS work. Them as to OP casters, or THEM as in everyone in NW? The OP asked what he should do in general, not highly specific cases. You are fixated on purify proc.
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"Arguing from ignorance," insults my intelligence/not understanding anything about pvp... specifically about sins, now obviously there is no way in hell i can understand it all, ergo that is why I made it a point to say 'even a slight one' still I do understand a few things.
Furthermore it isn't a 'fact' its YOUR opinion, and you are only looking at the benefits from one side, while seemingly ignoring the HIGH COST side effects that CAN come with the willingness to aps away on something.
It is a fact. PvP with a sin isn't like PvP with a BM, not even close ( and I have played both in current endgame ish sets). I addressed the pro's and con's, if you want to keep altering the critieria to fit your argument...Well that's just plain dishonest.
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As I said your right it does have its benefits and there are times where it continues to shine through, but there ARE also quite a few times where it really IS best to not herpa derp, essentially risking the process of the purify proc... especially against the casters who are smart enough to run away. (Most people don't seem to be smart enough to know the difference, and will erase the debuffs, and stuns from others due to their ill-advised (IMHO) decision/suggestion to just aps it out and hope you can kill your opponent before they run away/do something to keep you from attacking, I.E kill you, stun you, kite away etc.
Like i said before, Sin=/=Stupid. You say the most common knowledge things and expect me to take that as not being an insult to my intelligence. Truth is any sin herpa derping anything doesn't give a damn either way. Nor what we think of it.
EDIT: What I'm trying to say, is that it is impossible to know when your opponent might not be stupid enough to not run away, nor is apsing a true guarantee way of killing others before, or even after the purify proc happens, and if you do make the purify proc happen it WILL make it harder to take down said caster, whether they're kiting or not.
Once again, a strawman. I never said it was guaranteed. I said play to the strengths of your gear. It's obvious that apsing someone with a puri proc weapon will end up procing it eventually. I don't need you to tell me that, I was in one of the top TW factions on my server, and TWed almost every weekend. You think that would count for something. Guess not..... Frankly, I don't get why any of you are even trying to APS casters with high-end gear and purify spell. If you see your skills aren't dealing damage, switch over to trying to CC them instead. You'll minimize purify's chance of **** you over, lock down an opponent that can potentially crush your team if left unchecked, and potentially force use of genie/apoth for them to escape said lock. All of which are far more useful than making purify go off and then getting killed for your efforts. Because odds are that if your skills are doing **** for damage then they can likely charm tank you APSing them... which benefits them and them alone.
Very true, however I thought this would be obvious. People have the tendency to assume sins are stupid, and with that say the most obvious things. The OP was talking about general NW, so I gave my opinion to use APS, since that is the gear that he is in. In these extreme situations APS is ofc not the best choice, but some people just assume we don't know that.
Of course, you can always choose to try and act like a DD against a target you shouldn't be DDing on like the lowbies in NW everyone complains about being cannon fodder that only serve to boost points for their killers as well as proc purify. In fact, I highly welcome all the sins and BMs that APS me when I'm on an Endgame caster because they do nothing more than ensure that I become immune to CCs and have free reign to do as I please. And since their own allies can't kill them, I often find myself letting them live just so they can continue being ignorant, stubborn, and/or stupid towards my benefit.
Kinda sad to see that now we're offering advice that assumes our opponents are completely brain dead. Used to be that we'd assume the people we gave advice to had enough sense to know they could treat idiots with ineffective strategies and be fine, so we'd offer them advice based on the assumption that they were fighting someone they'd need advice to have a chance against in the first place.
I wasn't saying they are completely brain dead, but humans make mistakes. Punish those mistakes. The OP wasn't asking for help with endgame casters in APS. He just wanted to know if he should use APS or DPH in NW. My basic advice was to use APS because that is where the strength of his gear. In these extreme examples, I would think the OP is smart enough to switch to using skills.0 -
You have made it hard to quote you. TTDionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Sins only have 1 amp, and 1 debuff. We dont have to worry about that nearly as much as BM's do concerning removal of debuffs. Which is exactly why I said you can't use a BM as an example. It's compare apples, to oranges. But at the same time, I've learned to deal with puri, easily.
You continue to seem to only think about one thing, the sin 'TRYING' to kill before the purify proc happens/before the caster wises up and moves away. There are other factors at play that deserve attention as well, that go well beyond just the bm class, you erase every stun/debuff off of a caster by apsing. Nw/TW is as I am sure you are well aware of a TEAM effort, the actions of one can easily effect/totally destroy the plans of another, namely friends. Though aye all is well when the aps is able to pwn them into the ground.DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »I hate it when people ignore part of my post where i address strawmans, particularly "WILL make you/others pay for YOUR stubborness/willingness to think aps is supreme/will kill them before". I never said APS was supreme. I simply said play to the strength of your gear, is that such bad advice is MOST situations?
Re-read what I said, I didn't say that you said it, although it was slightly implied I didn't say that you did.
As for it being bad advice in most situations.... yes and no, that only works for one person the sin, it does nothing to 'help' others/be a team player. (Edit: unless of course as has been stated the sin manages to actually pull off the kill.)DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Truth of the matter is I never said it will ALWAYS work. Them as to OP casters, or THEM as in everyone in NW? The OP asked what he should do in general, not highly specific cases. You are fixated on purify proc.
Again never said you did, there is a difference between implied, and flat out saying that you said something.
Really these aren't a highly specific case, (especially with how common the proc has become) a sin apsing on a caster effects EVERYONE who has tried to stun/debuff a caster with the purify proc, and while I am fixated on it, it is mainstream out there, and it WILL effect the scores of people trying to stop a oped caster who is going to use the oped proc to its full effect.DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »b]It is a fact. PvP with a sin isn't like PvP with a BM,[/b] not even close ( and I have played both in current endgame ish sets). I addressed the pro's and con's, if you want to keep altering the critieria to fit your argument...Well that's just plain dishonest.
I don't think I'm altering the criteria, I am just thinking of more than just the sin, the sin will still do damage/still be able to help with spamming skills, and with chill on will have a much lower chance of the purify proc happening and running rampant.DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Like i said before, Sin=/=Stupid. You say the most common knowledge things and expect me to take that as not being an insult to my intelligence. Truth is any sin herpa derping anything doesn't give a damn either way. Nor what we think of it.
I am sure you are more than well aware of everything I have stated, and for all I know so is everyone else that has read this/any other argument I have ever made, but that still doesn't change the fact that the 'basics' are far too often ignored like they never come into play, which is rather wrong in my honest opinion, especially in chaotic places. One must master the basics in order to truly get the effectiveness out of anything/anyone, including aps, telling someone to just stick to the strengths isn't all bad, but it DOES have its flaws, especially if you want to truly master it completely. You gave him just a basic answer without any acknowledgement to it's flaws, expecting him to know better not to aps a caster he can't kill. (Which I am sure he is well aware of, however not everyone is, ergo my point to make it a point to show the very common flaw with that playing to the strengths of an aps set.) Yes all strengths have their weakness, but few as common as aps in this day and age... speaking of the game.)
I realize I am far from infallible, nor am I the smartest person to ever play this game, especially when it comes to pvp, but there are things that I do feel I do understand, just telling someone to go out and aps as much of you can while not acknowledging there are times where it may not be very prudent to do it, is a bad idea in my book. Some things just need a... delicate touch/full explanation. (not necessarily for you/me/or the original poster, but for anyone who may come to the forums and read it, and think the advice they read/like/agree with is 'gold'... things come with a warning label for a reason to cover peoples ***** (/o\) its not to insult other peoples intelligence.)
One more thing about that, I am not too surprised you felt that way, but yea there is a difference between an 'hidden'/disguised insult and a flat out 'slight' insult. Either way it is still an 'insult', sorry you took offense to it, it's why I didn't use any derogatory terms speaking to you/why I tend to try to avoid calling people names regardless of how benign they are meant to be/are... though really it is a rather petty argument at this point. So.... time for me to go run in circles!DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Once again, a strawman. I never said it was guaranteed. I said play to the strengths of your gear. It's obvious that apsing someone with a puri proc weapon will end up procing it eventually. I don't need you to tell me that, I was in one of the top TW factions on my server, and TWed almost every weekend. You think that would count for something. Guess not.
You can't think about just one thing/aspect and treat it as the whole truth, you did that with your first post, but aye we all do it myself included.
Still apsing does nothing to help the team as a whole, especially in a chaotic place like nw, TW, I am sure your 'tactic' worked far better, albeit I am sure there were people who were annoyed with that tactic you deployed. (Sure it was effective when you actually killed someone, but when you procced the purify proc due to the apsing? Yea... I'm sure that upset a few people.)Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
I would suggest aps, as a quick demon burst can drop most targets. Skill spam is also an option. but only in limited situations, considering you are running with basic aps gear. If you decide to improve your gears; skill spamming is the best option via (life hunter/elimination). Enjoy your next NW b:bye0
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