G16 3.33 aps vs G13 4aps

Ur dag is g13+10 a sin with g16+3 can deal better damage cause he have 40 extra atk lv, i tested it when g16 was new atm my g16 Is +10 and i was dealing 10k with demon spark with g13+10 And 12k with g16+3 when i was a noob, so u can say whatever u want but g16 is better, but atm g13 or g16 are fails, hard to kill r9rr's

vias9x8 wrote: »

G16(+10) 3.33 aps vs G13(+10) 4 aps


G16 +10 with 1 -int stat is only 3.33aps

above maths x aps (3.33) : 5397.93 <- forgot to add 40 atk levels which would make it 7552~, give or take.

G13 +10 is 4aps


above maths x aps (4) : 5488

by basic aps gears i mean :
lionheart neck/belt
ashura wrists/boots
r8 top with int stat
shadow ashura pants
pan gu tome

so bottem line: who has highest base atk? my g13 sin -.-

Highest base Atk is obviously G16 and with reason people are looking down on your G13 daggers. Get TM Lunar robe for interval and go 5aps G16. I don't see how you are not 5aps already with every Int-gear possible. Unless you're using the r8r single-int chest version or unless you use single-int G13 daggers which is a complete waste of refinement.

1) Failed maths if you don't take into account all factors
2) But who the hell refuse people in WS nowadays even with a crappy weapon ?

Thank you so much for the good laugh b:laugh

Your math is flawed, it does not take into account a lot of factors, one of them being G16 has 40 attack lvls, which is 40% more dmg.

Another factor, if you learned how to search for info, is that when you are 4 or 5 aps you lose 5% of your dmg. Source is here.

What it says in the link I provided:
"When the attack rate of your character is either 4.0 or 5.0 attacks per second, damage done by normal attacks is reduced by 5%. This damage reduction was added in the Descent expansion and does not otherwise show up in your character info window. There is also an unconfirmed 20% loss of accuracy with 4.0 and 5.0 attack rates. "

Anyway, I would not say no to taking a G13 sin to FWS as long as he can do his job, but comming here and saying that G13 does better dmg than G16 is just pure stupidity.

Oh and BTW, one last factor you forgot, and since math is accurate and not convenient to whatever you want the result to be and you have to calculate all possible outcomes... G13 can only have -0.1 int, G16 CAN, in theory, have -0.15... which makes your math even worse.



EDIT: I decided to redo what you did...
This particular sin has Dagger Devotion (or mastery since it got updated) lvl 10 (I don't want to enter the whole sage/demon convo).
This sin also has 450 dex total.
The weapons are unsharded.
He has no nuema lvls, no cards, no buffs.
No blessing.
(So far, have you seen how many variables we are missing? But let's play your game.)
This is on a mob the same lvl as you since there is no multiplier... If it was a boss with "?" lvl (lvl 150) this value would have a 75% reduction.

G13 - Barrier Thorn Nirvana +10 - 1071-1372
4 aps base
Dmg - 5410-6794
Dmg per second (-5% from 4 aps) - 20.558 - 25.817 (rounded)


G16 - Netherworld Guidance +10 - 1244-1621
2.86 aps base (no int)
Dmg - 6205-7940
Dmg per second (+40% from attack lvl) - 24.845 - 31.791 (rounded)

Just here, no int on G16, and you have more damage LOL
But let's go on.

G16 - Netherworld Guidance +10 - 1244-1621
3.33 aps base (-0.05 int)
Dmg - 6205-7940
Dmg per second (+40% from attack lvl) - 28.928 - 37.016 (rounded)
This was what you were looking for.


G16 - Netherworld Guidance +10 - 1244-1621
4 aps base (-0.1 int)
Dmg - 6205-7940
Dmg per second (+40% from attack lvl - 5% from 4 aps reduction) 33.507 - 42.876 (rounded)

G16 - Netherworld Guidance +10 - 1244-1621
5 aps base (-0.15 int)
Dmg - 6205-7940
Dmg per second (+40% from attack lvl - 5% from 5 aps reduction) - 41.884 - 53.595 (rounded)

Do you see it now?

Yup, much less damage than G16. But if you can solo wood pav 99% certain, who cares ?
If you cannot solo wood pav 99% certain, keep practicing and come back when you can.

if u wanna go higher with ur aps, then r8 reforge, try get boots with int and chest, and leg u cant get int, but u get int for 3 parts using it. then u got 3.33 with no interwal wep but with tome and lionheart parts and any wrist with -0,10 but its way to hard/expensive. would look like this
http://pwcalc.com/48bddd9ebcf8c0a2

bloodedone87 wrote: »

G13 its good only to solo earth pav. Wood monsters have a higher defence so you need more attack lvl to deal more dmg.I doubt anyone can solo wood pav with G13 and even if someone does im sure he or she struggles alot.

G13 can solo wood fine, until the monsters start stacking anti aps and increased def buffs, then it starts to become a problem in chains.

Ive seen several mobs in a row use anti aps buff, use anti aps+ phy def increase, and etc.


I will consistantly refuse sins in my WS squad that say things like that tho. Like sins that have g13+12 and had ample chance to get g16. I will refuse them, because they have been running warsong, and there is no excuse to still be using g13 2 years later when i see you in WS all the time. No saying that thats right, but its also those same sins that think g13 is in the same league as g16. Just no.

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

I did it with pixies and hooks, this is a level 95 instance not a 150 one b:laugh. But the point of the pavilions is to save the npc, killing the mobs just removes mobs from the pavilions when going to the bosses. You don't have to kill them all.

What you say makes no sense. Dont all the mobs go to npc? You have to kill all mobs on the pavs other way they will kill the npc making you to fail.And soloing pavs dont remove mobs when going to bosses. It just makes them weaker.
You solo wood pav with pixie and hook? You did it on that pav, avoiding circles, stunning head and killing mobs that have psy def increase?Sorry but its hard to believe.They were hook+12 and you are second time rb with A or S cards? But if you are second time rb why the hell would you use hook daggs.And if you did it with hook and pixies and by a miracle you succed how many pots and charms and those kinda stuff you used? 100? 200? 300?

bloodedone87 wrote: »

What you say makes no sense. Dont all the mobs go to npc? You have to kill all mobs on the pavs other way they will kill the npc making you to fail.And soloing pavs dont remove mobs when going to bosses. It just makes them weaker.
You solo wood pav with pixie and hook? You did it on that pav, avoiding circles, stunning head and killing mobs that have psy def increase?Sorry but its hard to believe.They were hook+12 and you are second time rb with A or S cards? But if you are second time rb why the hell would you use hook daggs.And if you did it with hook and pixies and by a miracle you succed how many pots and charms and those kinda stuff you used? 100? 200? 300?

I was going to make a sarcastic post but I will not. This is what happens in full warsong(non quest).

Protect npc's or keep them from dying

This does thing, allows the last boss to spawn after all the other bosses are killed.

Kill pav mobs

This removes upto half the mobs (give or take) from the paths to the bosses and prevents the boss form being frenzied.

lower str of mobs? never heard of that one or noticed a difference.


full warsong mobless
The only difference is the bosses are frenzied from not killing the pav mobs on the paths to the bosses and required one spark cycle to kill. Anything over that you are looking at a squad wipe unless the tank uses his/her ad and apo wisely. 2 spark cycles max.

last boss nothing special just kill the add's when they spawn.

As for you other comment, I made training videos for friends and my faction over a year ago soloing pav's and used hooks + 5 and pixies + 4? cant remember refine, to show it is not all about damage. it is about knowing your class and the instance mechanics(mobs), control and agro. I did water earth and wood. wood can be harder but if you have the slightest idea what you are doing you will be fine.

There was no nuema, there was no cards, no rebirth only meridian and i believe i was on the 2 circle at that. gears not maxed, but I did have dot's that did help with dmg but not as much as you would think, when you are talking around 4-5k to 6k dmg in the char screen.

Selbronne - Heavens Tear wrote: »

*snip*

Wrong. Any DPS class with r9r or higher or g16 will pull aggro from you....which is like damn there 85% of my server.

In this day and age g13 just doesn't cut it. Point blank. Go g16 or go home.

I dont know why this thread is a thing.

g16 daggers is a nobrainer and should be the weapon of choice for any decent sin out there.
I only see those daggers on low budget bot sins nowadays and even there i think its worth investing in g16 daggers because you just kill so much faster.

Last time i used g13 daggers where when nirvana was still around and even then i aimed for g15 ones (which i got and those are way better then g13)

So yea when your sin is an farm alt g16 is the best weapon for you, when its your main g16 probably wont cut it and you realy want the r9rr ones because reasons.

g13 should not be consideret an endgame weapon anymore and refining it over +3 is a total waste.


Also when DPH is mentioned, g13 is the worst weapon. stick with r8 then because the spike damage is better. g13(or g15) only look awesome but thats about it.

bloodedone87 wrote: »

I got G13+7.b:laugh G13 is a good weapon if you know when and how to play with it. But i must agree it will never beat G16.

You mean doing everything slower, doing less damage, and pretty much not being able to tank anything w/o uber armor refines or full buffs? Hell even +10 armor can get you killed with low damage, ive seen it myself.

It's only redeeming quality now is being used for chi, and even then a lv1 fist builds chi faster.

bloodedone87 wrote: »

If you wanna make fun of me or something it wont work.
With G13 i can solo from BH29 till BH89 bosses, i can even solo bosses in abba without lvl150 bosses. And i can do 29-89 self buffed. I got G13 and R8rr. Why I dont got G16 yet is because i was lazy to get it and cause i dont care when i get it. I play the game for fun not to be the best or to prove something. I dont give a *** if i get killed by a boss or if I cant tank bosses, or if i cant kill bosses faster as a sin with G16. I have badges, EOO and mold for G16 so i can make it when I want. So why dont you go and play the game and stop trying make ppl feel bad?. I repeat ''trying''.

Don't get mad at me for stating the facts. You got mad all on your own, and felt bad all on your own. I honestly dont give a damn if you felt bad or not, so I have no reason to even try, because I just don't care.

And what does "playing to have fun", have to do with the simple fact that g13 is completely outclassed by g16? Nothing. If you are too unfocused to complete them, then too bad. You also stated that you have the badges/EoO/Mold to make it, but you also stated that you were too lazy to get it? But you already have it? Dat logic.

But as i stated before. I don't care about your feelings or anyone else on this forum's feelings enough to even try to make you or them feel bad. You are irrelavent.

Have a nice day.


GG.

Well its fine and all having fun with your setup but gonestly, when these daggers ( http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/33521 ) can out DPS g13 nirvana then you realy should think about switching those.

Yes i made the test back in the day my g13+10 daggers barely did enough damage to out DMG my +4 blazing blizzard knifes.
g13 was a joke back then and is still a joke and the ONLY reason that those are used is the cheap interval they give. when you replace the interval with anything else these weapons would never be used i swear.

Nowadays its hard to compare gear setups as salari mentioned when i now say that i hit a boss with maybe 50k in nirvana full buffed and the boss debuffed with hf+amp+extreme+mire it would be like this only selfbuffed with maybe extreme and mire on the same boss.
I think you will like the g16 daggers even when they are +0. ofc you need to calculate some rerolls in, i would go as far as 5 rerolls (so 150 extra badges) to be sure to get a high chance for interval.
i mean without interval they deal more damage too but the chi management could be a bit awkward then.

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

now days its in the upper 500k's in aps gear. I am sure r9s3 could hit in the 1.5m+ range with same refines and gear setup as mine.

Well the boss has to be heavily debuffed to be hit for 500k on g16 daggers with aps gear to be honest and i doubt that even r9rr+12 daggers could pull 1.5mil apsing, with skills yea but not with aps.
But on a serious not i never tried apsing a heavily debuffed boss which is NOT lv ? and see for a nice few hits. maybe im totaly wrong here but in my expierience the max damage i could pull off on a ? boss is in the high 400k i guess. so maybe 1mil each hit on a normal "boss".

Also the bosses avaible are mostly dead too quick to have a good look at your damage. best boss i can see is the dog one in the secret passage with 5-6mil HP.

When in doubt, test on Ancient Sea Dragon. HP is absolutely not an issue for this guy. b:chuckle