Evryn's rant - PWI's monetization model

Evryn - Morai
Evryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
edited October 2014 in General Discussion
I've been playing this game for roughly a year and a half now, on the Morai PVE server only, and I've hit a wall. I suspect other players will or have hit it as well. I've enjoyed the PVE element of this game a lot, and am able to play well with others in that aspect of the game. In the past I've avoided the PvP elements of the game, suspecting that without half decent endgear game, you'd not be able to compete in that aspect at all. However, as my main character (a blademaster) grew and lucked out on a few nice war avatars, I did what many have done before me, and joined a faction that does the Territory Wars.

I've ran the event five times now. Three of those times, the experience was less then satisfactory. The rough rock/paper/scissors distribution of classes is completely out of whack. As a blademaster, I expect that, if I manage to close the gap with an arcane caster (unprotected mind you) and stun that caster, that said caster will die shortly thereafter. It's hard enough to get to them. But when I am dealing roughly 200-400 damage per hit with a +7 G16 weapon - which for your free-to-play casual crowd, is most likely their final equipment - you are simply being outclassed by the paying crowd.

I've come to the conclusion that PWI's monetization scheme is that of "Free to play PVE, pay to be able compete in PvP". This presents me with 3 choices as a player:
1: Pipe up the cash in order to compete. For me, that isn't that much of a problem. I enjoy this game and will probably end up buying Zen to get my BM full R9. My main hurdle right now is figuring out how that whole throwing money at PWI actually works... But not all players have this ability.
2: Forgo the PvP part of the game alltogether (or leave the game). This is the option most free to play players pick. I've picked this myself for the longest of time out of necessity. There is a major danger here for the game and company: If the weaker players cease to participate, they disappear as content for the paying players. Heck, even now we get frequent "c'mon, noone for PvP at west?" calls on the worldchannel by some of the best geared players on the server. The fact that they can't find people anymore that are willing to compete with them is troubling: If they don't find challenges and fun in the game, what's left to do for them but to leave? And those are PWI's biggest cash droppers, the folk who have the best of the best.
3: Cheat, abuse and exploit every little glitch and method in the game in order to garner a lot of coins, then flood the auctionhouse with this money to buy gold at the top price. This is what autocultivation caused many players, myself included, to do - and my only regret thus far is that I waited a long time before making my own bot farm. It has become so easy to have a couple of mediocre equipped characters roam the map for 8 hours a day, shooting whatever they can and gathering the loot. Some players use other bots as well: Mining bots for high demand herbs and other mineable materials in Lothranis/Momaganon, and there's even a shop-checking bot or two flying around in Archo and 1K streams. Noone respects the 2 accounts per person rule anymore, as the rule isn't being enforced. It is this lack of enforcing the rules and cleaning out the game from people who do cheat that is making me hesitate wether to drop cash into this game or just play for free until something better comes around - and then leave. Lack of game master/admin attention signifies a lack of interest by the company in it's product. And that is a VERY big red flag for me.

Still, I enjoy to play this game. If I didn't, I'd not be around anymore. Here's to hoping "PWI2" will also bring improvements on the admin side and hopefully build in some kind of anticheat. Or hoping that the GMs will finally step up and start to bring the banhammer down on cheaters. If I'd get whacked with that myself for excessive multiclienting at that point, I'd not even mind - as long as that hammer is brought down hard on everyone who's doing it. Heck, I think 90% of the server would be starting from scratch at that point... Including most of the top-geared persons on the server.
I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.

Ulsyr 103/103/104 BM. Working on the last R9 part (Axe).
Khelvan 103/103/103 LA Cler. LA? LA. Deal with it.
Evryn 103/102/101 Sagely Mystical Myst of Mystiness.
Gromth 102/102/102 Sage Panda.
StoneSnake - Snakeshop for everyone's common stones.
Post edited by Evryn - Morai on
«1

Comments

  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I've ran the event five times now. Three of those times, the experience was less then satisfactory. The rough rock/paper/scissors distribution of classes is completely out of whack. As a blademaster, I expect that, if I manage to close the gap with an arcane caster (unprotected mind you) and stun that caster, that said caster will die shortly thereafter. It's hard enough to get to them. But when I am dealing roughly 200-400 damage per hit with a +7 G16 weapon - which for your free-to-play casual crowd, is most likely their final equipment - you are simply being outclassed by the paying crowd.

    Your role as a BM in TW isn't to kill people. It's to CC people so your DDs can kill them.
    Noone respects the 2 accounts per person rule anymore, as the rule isn't being enforced.

    The two clients per person rule has never been enforced and probably never will be since such a huge portion of the playerbase abuses it and enforcing it would probably result in the majority of the current playerbase being banned. Which, frankly, would be suicide on whatever profits they still get from this game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
    I <3 Subtraction.
    /blatant sig copy is blatant

    105/105/105 obtained! b:cute
  • CapnK - Sanctuary
    CapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    BM in the current state of the game is a pretty poor class for mass pvp. There's too much ranged damage flying around for a BM to get in close and do his job. Which isn't to say there aren't BMs that still are effective, but they have to have a massive gear level just to survive.

    1v1 is another story, BM is very effective against a single target.

    As for PW's lack of rule enforcement, it's an unfortunate state of affairs. But it's been this way for years, so it's obviously a conscious decision on their part. They either don't want to pay GMs to monitor the servers, or they somehow feel the game is better off without enforcement (which may be correct, look how long the game has survived).
  • TZoner - Raging Tide
    TZoner - Raging Tide Posts: 1,764 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Your role as a BM in TW isn't to kill people. It's to CC people so your DDs can kill them.



    The two clients per person rule has never been enforced and probably never will be since such a huge portion of the playerbase abuses it and enforcing it would probably result in the majority of the current playerbase being banned. Which, frankly, would be suicide on whatever profits they still get from this game.

    The part highlighted in red is just something I am so sick of hearing. Sure in a mass pvp setting it is hard for a bm to compete and and kill people, but we are entirely capable of doing so. I am so sick of people trying to tell us BMs that we are ONLY a CC class and are only able to do such. In a 1v1 pvp setting a BM can easily kill just about any class, and while TW is not a 1v1 pvp scenario there are still plenty of times where bms CAN kill people. Our main role may be CC, but we are not held to that role anymore. With a good gear set and decent war avatars a good bm can take out a whole squad with hf and aoes.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DoodsWH - Sanctuary
    DoodsWH - Sanctuary Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I play my bm now lol. needless to say if your geared as a bm its another dimension is survivability and killing people. so fuuuuunnnnnnn. though i personally like all classes and any class endgame can be fuuuuuunnnnnnn b:pleased
  • unrefuted
    unrefuted Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The part highlighted in red is just something I am so sick of hearing. Sure in a mass pvp setting it is hard for a bm to compete and and kill people, but we are entirely capable of doing so. I am so sick of people trying to tell us BMs that we are ONLY a CC class and are only able to do such. In a 1v1 pvp setting a BM can easily kill just about any class, and while TW is not a 1v1 pvp scenario there are still plenty of times where bms CAN kill people. Our main role may be CC, but we are not held to that role anymore. With a good gear set and decent war avatars a good bm can take out a whole squad with hf and aoes.

    lol what? In any situations where a bm can take out a whole squad, a DD class can do it just as fast if not faster. So yes, your role is to CC and debuffs, not killing when in tw.
  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    there are few casters that get that kind of low damage from reborned\carded g16s on our server
    not like thats a common caster player
    b:chuckle
    i guess you should've just picked a diff target :P, i dont think it's clever for a g16 HA to engage 1on1 a r9r3 caster
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123524

    i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg
  • Rjwashere - Dreamweaver
    Rjwashere - Dreamweaver Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    there are few casters that get that kind of low damage from reborned\carded g16s on our server
    not like thats a common caster player
    b:chuckle
    i guess you should've just picked a diff target :P, i dont think it's clever for a g16 HA to engage 1on1 a r9r3 caster

    agreed, you better be bringing ur entire squad to take out r9r3 players if ur hitting that much
    b:avoidb:avoidb:avoid
  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Here's to hoping "PWI2" will also bring improvements on the admin side and hopefully build in some kind of anticheat. Or hoping that the GMs will finally step up and start to bring the banhammer down on cheaters. If I'd get whacked with that myself for excessive multiclienting at that point, I'd not even mind - as long as that hammer is brought down hard on everyone who's doing it. Heck, I think 90% of the server would be starting from scratch at that point... Including most of the top-geared persons on the server.

    "PWI2" do you mean the next expansion? We've had a lot of expansion before and nothing has changed for good on the administrative side. We are lucky if we can say that a expansion didn't break the game balance any further, but it usually does.

    This game you either accept it as it is, or just leave. China doesn't care about us, and PWI doesn't communicate our needs to them, nor they know anything about the game.
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I've been playing this game for roughly a year and a half now, on the Morai PVE server only, and I've hit a wall. I suspect other players will or have hit it as well. I've enjoyed the PVE element of this game a lot, and am able to play well with others in that aspect of the game. In the past I've avoided the PvP elements of the game, suspecting that without half decent endgear game, you'd not be able to compete in that aspect at all. However, as my main character (a blademaster) grew and lucked out on a few nice war avatars, I did what many have done before me, and joined a faction that does the Territory Wars.

    I've ran the event five times now. Three of those times, the experience was less then satisfactory. The rough rock/paper/scissors distribution of classes is completely out of whack. As a blademaster, I expect that, if I manage to close the gap with an arcane caster (unprotected mind you) and stun that caster, that said caster will die shortly thereafter. It's hard enough to get to them. But when I am dealing roughly 200-400 damage per hit with a +7 G16 weapon - which for your free-to-play casual crowd, is most likely their final equipment - you are simply being outclassed by the paying crowd.

    I've come to the conclusion that PWI's monetization scheme is that of "Free to play PVE, pay to be able compete in PvP". This presents me with 3 choices as a player:
    1: Pipe up the cash in order to compete. For me, that isn't that much of a problem. I enjoy this game and will probably end up buying Zen to get my BM full R9. My main hurdle right now is figuring out how that whole throwing money at PWI actually works... But not all players have this ability.
    2: Forgo the PvP part of the game alltogether (or leave the game). This is the option most free to play players pick. I've picked this myself for the longest of time out of necessity. There is a major danger here for the game and company: If the weaker players cease to participate, they disappear as content for the paying players. Heck, even now we get frequent "c'mon, noone for PvP at west?" calls on the worldchannel by some of the best geared players on the server. The fact that they can't find people anymore that are willing to compete with them is troubling: If they don't find challenges and fun in the game, what's left to do for them but to leave? And those are PWI's biggest cash droppers, the folk who have the best of the best.
    3: Cheat, abuse and exploit every little glitch and method in the game in order to garner a lot of coins, then flood the auctionhouse with this money to buy gold at the top price. This is what autocultivation caused many players, myself included, to do - and my only regret thus far is that I waited a long time before making my own bot farm. It has become so easy to have a couple of mediocre equipped characters roam the map for 8 hours a day, shooting whatever they can and gathering the loot. Some players use other bots as well: Mining bots for high demand herbs and other mineable materials in Lothranis/Momaganon, and there's even a shop-checking bot or two flying around in Archo and 1K streams. Noone respects the 2 accounts per person rule anymore, as the rule isn't being enforced. It is this lack of enforcing the rules and cleaning out the game from people who do cheat that is making me hesitate wether to drop cash into this game or just play for free until something better comes around - and then leave. Lack of game master/admin attention signifies a lack of interest by the company in it's product. And that is a VERY big red flag for me.

    Still, I enjoy to play this game. If I didn't, I'd not be around anymore. Here's to hoping "PWI2" will also bring improvements on the admin side and hopefully build in some kind of anticheat. Or hoping that the GMs will finally step up and start to bring the banhammer down on cheaters. If I'd get whacked with that myself for excessive multiclienting at that point, I'd not even mind - as long as that hammer is brought down hard on everyone who's doing it. Heck, I think 90% of the server would be starting from scratch at that point... Including most of the top-geared persons on the server.

    No xD

    I am the one that's most of the time crying for PvP and I dropped 0 money into PWI, well on our Morai Server at least. I made the mistake to spend loads of money on Sanct tho few years back and practically burned 4 grand into pack addiction that left me with nearly nothing in the end. But oh well. Addiction and stuff. I got over it.

    Still. I managed to actually FARM, not cash, not merch...only FARM all of my gears and the majority of my GFs gear, twinks, aso. Besides that I am away for 10 Hours each day due to my job. I still managed to become one of the best geared players here.

    Sure, I'm playing since server start but come on. Time will eventually get you your gears, even F2P. It just takes time and a bit effort. ok, sometimes loads of effort.

    For me personally, I don't even dare thinking about leaving PWI. Sure no one wants to fight my barb, but I'm currently saving up for my Moon Fairy to be full r9r2 +10 at release. Then I am just a caster that can be dealt with easily. At least with non-maxed gears -> that will lead to an influx in PvP.

    Still I see the danger in the lack of PvP. If no ones gives you the challange you want you just go berserk and start to troll and randomly kill any other guy you see. I don't do that...but well...the desire to do it is actually at hand.

    I like working for things and improving my chars in this game. Heck I freak out of joy when friday ends so I might be able to level my nuema a bit and am so excited to finish it this weekend <3. Any little improvement is amazing. For me. Same will go for my Moon Fairy then.

    So in other terms...you will see my crying for PvP for quite some time I guess :D

    As to the cheating thing: One can hope that PWE will leave the anti-bot system intact for our version. It works wonders + it disconnects the afking ppl and thus improves the latency for everyone else. The botting thing was the worst thing they've ever come up with but that has been discussed a bazillion times...so we will be leaving it at that.

    But NO! Hell...being full F2P and having spend thousands of thousands of hours in this game I wouldn't start from scratch. I wouldn't mind a wipe tho. Would finally fre eme from this game...but oh well...there goes the fairy...but but...w/o my Barb I can't Full r9rr it within 7 days of release max...nuuuuu!

    To the PvP-Side: You will still be disappointed. If you really like to PvP...well then even r9rr alone won't help you that much against ppl like me. Anything below full +10 (including max ornaments (but at least the r9r ring)!!!) is still...just a drive-by killing. And I can judge by the massive flames I got from such ppl that they didn't like it that much. Heck who would like dropping thousands into this game to just get facerolled by others like a piece of paper. Ya, no one.

    On the other side you can still find enjoyment in NW and TW most of the times when facing lower or equally geared players (assuming full r9rr +7/weap +10) simply cuz we still have dozens of such.

    In the end I can only tell you what kept me here for so long. If you want a bit of a change from your daily gameplay...just roll a twink. Gear it, level it, get skills for it. Loads of fun and lots of stuff to do.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • Evryn - Morai
    Evryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    there are few casters that get that kind of low damage from reborned\carded g16s on our server
    not like thats a common caster player
    b:chuckle
    i guess you should've just picked a diff target :P, i dont think it's clever for a g16 HA to engage 1on1 a r9r3 caster

    This mentality is kind of the problem Hot. There aren't many different targets left anymore. If the mentality of this game is "go cash, go cheat or go home", then the state of this gameworld is even more sad then I expected. But I suppose as long as enough people use the "go cash" option, PWI inc. is happy to leave things as they are. Suppose the only way to speak to a company is with cash, or lack thereof.

    @Joe: I am gearing up some twinks. Mostly for automated farming purposes - the prices have gone up severely since you've farmed your gear on free to play. Gearing a G15 +4 armor/G16 weapon isn't all that hard to do after all... Even with half a dozen twinks roaming the map 8 hrs a day I don't have any illusions about farming R9 that way however.
    I have spent a LOT of time at this game. And I still enjoy it, otherwise I'd not be here anymore. But I worry for the future of this game. Players who want to compete at PvP on Morai simply don't stand a chance to catch up without playing their character nonstop for at least a year - and that's ignoring the gearing part. That will turn newer players away. Leaving just the old crew behind... a slow decline as some folks go for greener pastures. PWI's attempts to use the playerbase to advertise for them (which is what the recent Instagram and Facebook challenges were in effect for) won't work if the players don't see the game as great or improving.

    And let me ask you this. Say, you roll your moon fairy. You make it R9RR+10 at launch. Say you get facerolled hard a few times with that character by the current archer and tank crowd (from the look of it, moon fairy will have most to fear from archers). Will you persist in getting slaughtered, or feel the urge to switch back to your main toon to be dominant again?
    I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.

    Ulsyr 103/103/104 BM. Working on the last R9 part (Axe).
    Khelvan 103/103/103 LA Cler. LA? LA. Deal with it.
    Evryn 103/102/101 Sagely Mystical Myst of Mystiness.
    Gromth 102/102/102 Sage Panda.
    StoneSnake - Snakeshop for everyone's common stones.
  • jwillson123
    jwillson123 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    This mentality is kind of the problem Hot. There aren't many different targets left anymore. If the mentality of this game is "go cash, go cheat or go home", then the state of this gameworld is even more sad then I expected. But I suppose as long as enough people use the "go cash" option, PWI inc. is happy to leave things as they are. Suppose the only way to speak to a company is with cash, or lack thereof.

    @Joe: I am gearing up some twinks. Mostly for automated farming purposes - the prices have gone up severely since you've farmed your gear on free to play. Gearing a G15 +4 armor/G16 weapon isn't all that hard to do after all... Even with half a dozen twinks roaming the map 8 hrs a day I don't have any illusions about farming R9 that way however.
    I have spent a LOT of time at this game. And I still enjoy it, otherwise I'd not be here anymore. But I worry for the future of this game. Players who want to compete at PvP on Morai simply don't stand a chance to catch up without playing their character nonstop for at least a year - and that's ignoring the gearing part. That will turn newer players away. Leaving just the old crew behind... a slow decline as some folks go for greener pastures. PWI's attempts to use the playerbase to advertise for them (which is what the recent Instagram and Facebook challenges were in effect for) won't work if the players don't see the game as great or improving.

    And let me ask you this. Say, you roll your moon fairy. You make it R9RR+10 at launch. Say you get facerolled hard a few times with that character by the current archer and tank crowd (from the look of it, moon fairy will have most to fear from archers). Will you persist in getting slaughtered, or feel the urge to switch back to your main toon to be dominant again?

    Moon fairy will have no problem with archers with their brother anti archer damage reduction lol.


    Two years ago a skilled players with nirvana gear could kill a full R9+10 if the player got distracted or made lots of mistakes.


    Now a full G16 character can't not kill them even if they go afk and gets 1 shot when the r9r3 well refined comes back after watching a movie.


    It happened to me lol I found player that was afk from keyboard. I was hitting the player for 400-500 damage. The player had charm so each time I got the player to have hp it would go full again. After few minutes another player came and 1 shot me!
    This happened to me when I came back to this game in February.

    Now I have r9r3 weapon +12.
    I did triple spark and attacked a op seeker. and I only did 3 digit damage with r9r3+12 ! lol

    I have enough to buy full r9r3 armor set but I plan to wait for next expansion for the new advance cultivation.
    I am working on getting my cube neck and others NW ornaments first.

    full G16 is garbage and 50% inferior than full r9r3.
    those extra 100 stats + reawakening stats and emperor tome helps a lot that the advice a friend told that me is 105x3.
    There is also the new spirit stat. Make sure to get as most spirit as possible.
    Do you want PWI to fix the economy before is to late?
    please support Perfect World International Forum > Suggestion Box
    > Limit Auto Cultivation to 1 hour just like Hyper stones
  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Your role as a BM in TW isn't to kill people. It's to CC people so your DDs can kill them.



    The two clients per person rule has never been enforced and probably never will be since such a huge portion of the playerbase abuses it and enforcing it would probably result in the majority of the current playerbase being banned. Which, frankly, would be suicide on whatever profits they still get from this game.
    The part highlighted in red is just something I am so sick of hearing. Sure in a mass pvp setting it is hard for a bm to compete and and kill people, but we are entirely capable of doing so. I am so sick of people trying to tell us BMs that we are ONLY a CC class and are only able to do such. In a 1v1 pvp setting a BM can easily kill just about any class, and while TW is not a 1v1 pvp scenario there are still plenty of times where bms CAN kill people. Our main role may be CC, but we are not held to that role anymore. With a good gear set and decent war avatars a good bm can take out a whole squad with hf and aoes.

    I highlighted the part that was important to her post. Then you spout off about 1v1. b:laugh BM job is TW is cc and HF for mass deaths via aoes from other DD's.
  • sondok
    sondok Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Eh yeah it is kind of sad. I came back 2 months ago from a 2 year break and it's depressing seeing how I only do 100-200 damage to some players but then again, it's against the super op cash shopped people.

    My only suggestion is to fight people around your gear level. If you go against a really good geared guild you're going to have the low damage hits and get rolled. But if you fight against people your own gear range that's when you have fun and good pvp fights. If you do fight against op geared players, just be a pest...stun lock them or dragons.

    Sadly, the options you have is to cs to be on their level, farm your butt off to get the gear/refines or just accept that you aren't going to be as strong as them. I've accepted that I'm not going to be a top pvper, I'm not going to CS, I'll farm a little bit but not 8 hours a day..this game is strictly for fun and even though I'm on a pvp server, I'm not going to pvp(I never did pvp much anyway). Figure out what you want to do and are willing to do. You'll be much happier when you figure it out.
    lvl 101 ea from Lost City.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Father_gold - Sanctuary
    Father_gold - Sanctuary Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    sondok wrote: »
    Eh yeah it is kind of sad. I came back 2 months ago from a 2 year break and it's depressing seeing how I only do 100-200 damage to some players but then again, it's against the super op cash shopped people.

    My only suggestion is to fight people around your gear level. If you go against a really good geared guild you're going to have the low damage hits and get rolled. But if you fight against people your own gear range that's when you have fun and good pvp fights. If you do fight against op geared players, just be a pest...stun lock them or dragons.

    Sadly, the options you have is to cs to be on their level, farm your butt off to get the gear/refines or just accept that you aren't going to be as strong as them. I've accepted that I'm not going to be a top pvper, I'm not going to CS, I'll farm a little bit but not 8 hours a day..this game is strictly for fun and even though I'm on a pvp server, I'm not going to pvp(I never did pvp much anyway). Figure out what you want to do and are willing to do. You'll be much happier when you figure it out.

    many of these so called "super cash-shopped people" actually stayed in the game as you havent and farmed their rear-ends off and merched to get the gear and refines they have.

    i think it is more of an issue with you falling behind the times during a period of rather rapid power creep.
  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    sondok wrote: »
    Eh yeah it is kind of sad. I came back 2 months ago from a 2 year break and it's depressing seeing how I only do 100-200 damage to some players but then again, it's against the super op cash shopped people.

    2 years.... It's only natural that you are doing 3 digit damage if you were gone for 2 years, specially if the people you are hitting stayed playing for those 2 games.
  • sondok
    sondok Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    many of these so called "super cash-shopped people" actually stayed in the game as you havent and farmed their rear-ends off and merched to get the gear and refines they have.

    i think it is more of an issue with you falling behind the times during a period of rather rapid power creep.

    Of course I've fallen behind in the times..I was gone for 2 years. I'm not faulting them for farming or cash shopping.

    I have spoken to people that stayed during the time that I've been gone and they said that S cards have greatly widened the gap.

    I kind of don't care anyway, it's just a game to me and although being a super one shot now is annoying I'm used to it.
    lvl 101 ea from Lost City.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    This mentality is kind of the problem Hot. There aren't many different targets left anymore. If the mentality of this game is "go cash, go cheat or go home", then the state of this gameworld is even more sad then I expected. But I suppose as long as enough people use the "go cash" option, PWI inc. is happy to leave things as they are. Suppose the only way to speak to a company is with cash, or lack thereof.

    @Joe: I am gearing up some twinks. Mostly for automated farming purposes - the prices have gone up severely since you've farmed your gear on free to play. Gearing a G15 +4 armor/G16 weapon isn't all that hard to do after all... Even with half a dozen twinks roaming the map 8 hrs a day I don't have any illusions about farming R9 that way however.
    I have spent a LOT of time at this game. And I still enjoy it, otherwise I'd not be here anymore. But I worry for the future of this game. Players who want to compete at PvP on Morai simply don't stand a chance to catch up without playing their character nonstop for at least a year - and that's ignoring the gearing part. That will turn newer players away. Leaving just the old crew behind... a slow decline as some folks go for greener pastures. PWI's attempts to use the playerbase to advertise for them (which is what the recent Instagram and Facebook challenges were in effect for) won't work if the players don't see the game as great or improving.

    And let me ask you this. Say, you roll your moon fairy. You make it R9RR+10 at launch. Say you get facerolled hard a few times with that character by the current archer and tank crowd (from the look of it, moon fairy will have most to fear from archers). Will you persist in getting slaughtered, or feel the urge to switch back to your main toon to be dominant again?

    No. I am persistent enough to gear my moon fairy so that I will eventually be able to beat anything again. I don't mind getting slaughtered all the time at the beginning. Especially since I wanna focus more on tactical/group oriented gameplay with the fairy. So it will be all new and like the complete opposite of battling with my barb. Besides. Any pvp is better then no pvp. Most ppl will only attend to PvP when they got an advantagr or when they know that they win anyways. I'm not like that. I wanna face skilled players that get the most outta their gears.

    And ya its weird. With my barb...ya there could be 30x g16 +7 geared ppl be only against me and I'd surely know that I still win then over. All you need is throw a pan gu or IG and dish out an AOE to kill everyone in range. The few survivors can't even dare to think about winning. But. If you add any high DDing greatly geared player to them then I would get facerolled. Like I said before. If you're own dmg isnt that great then just support ppl. You can be the factor that wins a nation in nw if you stun the main targets properly. Gears don't matter so much in a case like that. Same thing will it be for me and my fairy at first. That paralyze/atun/reel-in thingy will just annoy the **** outta so many ppl xD now its my time to annoy ppl with CC-Skills...muhar.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • jwillson123
    jwillson123 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    many of these so called "super cash-shopped people" actually stayed in the game as you havent and farmed their rear-ends off and merched to get the gear and refines they have.

    i think it is more of an issue with you falling behind the times during a period of rather rapid power creep.

    That is a fairy tale you are talking there.b:chuckle
    No matter how much someone farmed or merched.
    They could never have full S Neuma portal set or full random S card set(Unless they really lucky).

    80% of the people with end game gear are cash shoppers.
    Merchanting generates good money but its limited you have to share the market pie.
    Farming same is limited and you have to also share the market/farming pie since you got to have players buying them. Also you got your worst enemy the mysterious merchant.

    In my server I find most competition mediocre at best there is no way 80% of end game people got their gear from merchanting or else the market would have been way more competitive.


    Bots? Yeah possible I know some people were botting with multiple computers and making 100 million a day. With botting you do not share the pie just share the location you bot on but you can always find location where there is no one at.


    Getting full R9r3 +10 and nw ornaments is very possible for F2p players that play hard.
    But getting full JoD + S cards that is for heavy cash shoppers in current market.

    I know a player in my server who was very famous he did not cash and farmed his gear/merch his gear for 2 years very hard.
    He quit few days ago because even if he was full r9r3+12and Full JoD he could not compete at all with people that had full random maxed S card set.
    Do you want PWI to fix the economy before is to late?
    please support Perfect World International Forum > Suggestion Box
    > Limit Auto Cultivation to 1 hour just like Hyper stones
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Getting full R9r3 +10 and nw ornaments is very possible for F2p players that play hard.
    But getting full JoD + S cards that is for heavy cash shoppers in current market.

    I know a player in my server who was very famous he did not cash and farmed his gear/merch his gear for 2 years very hard.
    He quit few days ago because even if he was full r9r3+12and Full JoD he could not compete at all with people that had full random maxed S card set.

    Then that person made a logistical mistake.

    That is the main reason why I only aim for the full six candleflame sovereign A-Card set. The full lvl40 pvled set is superior to random full S-Cards all lvl80 in most aspects (you get more spirit but a bit less attack). So when you fully reborn or 2nd reborn the A-Set you even outmatch 4-piece S-Card sets. Fully 2nd rbed you are even nearly on par wirh a standard nuema portal non-rb set.

    For non-heavy csers it is simply dumb to aim for full S-Cards. It really is. Heck xD the best S Sets on our server are non-rbed 4 piece ones. If I manage to get my final card for the set then I will have the most powerful cards on the server w/o even wearing a single S-Card. Granted I would nearly be fully 1st rb on that set...but I still have alot of potential to 2nd rb it to gain even more advantages.

    S-Cards are more like prestige objects. You dont necessarily need to compete with full nuema poetal guys. They all dropped several thousands (some even up to 6 digits) into this game...so even if they still beat me..I won anyways. Cuz my count states 0 cash and I can still bug the hell outta them in PvP :p
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • Zoldi - Morai
    Zoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    "go cash, go cheat or go home"

    This is the part where you're wrong.
    I did C$ for my R9 actually and I admit that being R9.3 allow me to earn more money than if my main was only G16 (more supply tokens from NW, easier to farm, and so on). But I stopped CSing some time ago and have now way more money than when I was still C$ing...
    I think C$ is not the best way to get endgame gears anyway except if you do something else in addition or if you come from Qatar.
    But yeah you need some time.

    The good thing is that on Morai we don't have that much endgame players (very few player with +12 on armor, very few with 6 S cards, ...)
    You can still see a lot of G16 +6/7 toons and most of the people with R9.3 don't have +10 or shards or good avatar cards. I mean that a toon with R9.3 (+10 on weapon, +8 on armors), G10 shards and full A card will probably face way more undergeared opponents than better geared ones.
    ~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
    ~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
    ~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
    ~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
    ~ Sage Cleric 102 ~ Demon Wizard 101 ~
    ~ Sage Seeker 101 ~ Sage Psy 101 ~
    ~ Sage Heavy Veno 101 ~ Demon Storm 9X ~ Dusk 6x ~
    Started playing this game in 2007 on Oracle (PW-MY) : Demon MG 101 - Sage EP 99 - WF 89
  • Evryn - Morai
    Evryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    And that brings up another problem. Say you do farm your rear off. Say you do reach R9 with decent ornies. Say you do grab a bit of coin for S card chances. Every other few expansions PWI introduces something new that will raise (or lower, depending on view) the bar and add more work for the F2P crows to keep up.

    Rank 9 recasts started this as far as I'm aware. Then the tomes you can only get from SoT's, requiring you to buy a ton of packs. Then the War Avatars came in. The most blatant and direct form of buying power however, has to be spirit coins. I'm sure the PWI2 expansion will have yet another buy-or-grind-endlessly mechanic in it that will raise the paying crowd (or those who have massive reserves from before autoculti was curbed) above the rest. But what's the point of working towards a goal if the finish line moves away further and further all the time?

    And as for a BM deploying CC... kinda hard to do if you end up being oneshot material. BM CCs are most useful if you're in the middle of a big brawl - Surviving long enough to get there is the problem usually.
    I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.

    Ulsyr 103/103/104 BM. Working on the last R9 part (Axe).
    Khelvan 103/103/103 LA Cler. LA? LA. Deal with it.
    Evryn 103/102/101 Sagely Mystical Myst of Mystiness.
    Gromth 102/102/102 Sage Panda.
    StoneSnake - Snakeshop for everyone's common stones.
  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    And that brings up another problem. Say you do farm your rear off. Say you do reach R9 with decent ornies. Say you do grab a bit of coin for S card chances. Every other few expansions PWI introduces something new that will raise (or lower, depending on view) the bar and add more work for the F2P crows to keep up.

    Rank 9 recasts started this as far as I'm aware. Then the tomes you can only get from SoT's, requiring you to buy a ton of packs. Then the War Avatars came in. The most blatant and direct form of buying power however, has to be spirit coins. I'm sure the PWI2 expansion will have yet another buy-or-grind-endlessly mechanic in it that will raise the paying crowd (or those who have massive reserves from before autoculti was curbed) above the rest. But what's the point of working towards a goal if the finish line moves away further and further all the time?

    And as for a BM deploying CC... kinda hard to do if you end up being oneshot material. BM CCs are most useful if you're in the middle of a big brawl - Surviving long enough to get there is the problem usually.

    tbh for a bm to be effective and have an impact in tws or mass pvp

    very endgame gears are not required

    you can be g16 as r9r3 endgame your job would be to go into the big brawls you talking about with IG, deliver CC and hf to support your main DDs, and die after or kite away if you still have time on your immunity,
    still you traded your death for the chance to your squad to follow up and aoe kill multiple treaths = good trade

    imo the gears wont matter just because the bm will have to overextend that much to a point which you will get killed anyways despite gears (if you are not on IG)
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123524

    i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg
  • Evryn - Morai
    Evryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    So you're suggesting a tactic akin to - dart in with Will of Bodhi/Ironguard, deliver stun, dart out, and hope you live long enough to pull that off more then once? I'll give that a try next friday, see if that actually works. Thanks for the tip.

    I do agree with the people who say the BM is a frontline -support- class rather then pure frontline DD, bms have nowhere near the damage spike capabilities of say, sins or archers. You do need to -have- main dd's around to support though...

    But to step up at point blank to an arcane character and not be able to do any significant harm... that's just... meh.
    I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.

    Ulsyr 103/103/104 BM. Working on the last R9 part (Axe).
    Khelvan 103/103/103 LA Cler. LA? LA. Deal with it.
    Evryn 103/102/101 Sagely Mystical Myst of Mystiness.
    Gromth 102/102/102 Sage Panda.
    StoneSnake - Snakeshop for everyone's common stones.
  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    So you're suggesting a tactic akin to - dart in with Will of Bodhi/Ironguard, deliver stun, dart out, and hope you live long enough to pull that off more then once? I'll give that a try next friday, see if that actually works. Thanks for the tip.

    I do agree with the people who say the BM is a frontline -support- class rather then pure frontline DD, bms have nowhere near the damage spike capabilities of say, sins or archers. You do need to -have- main dd's around to support though...

    But to step up at point blank to an arcane character and not be able to do any significant harm... that's just... meh.

    yea, just coordinate with your team or play like a mere support

    like my bm in tw usually calls his IG HF ready then he goes in with IG he drops roar hf and i + another wizard follow up with blade tempest and after we all leap back to safety

    most of the times its aoe kills (we use to call it dropping a nokia xD)

    if your team dont dispose of strong aoers, just AA the main DD of your squad after you see he and his target traded genie like AD or apo like ironguard go in with (immunity yourself) on his target and paralyze HF him ;)
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123524

    i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg
  • Zoldi - Morai
    Zoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    But to step up at point blank to an arcane character and not be able to do any significant harm... that's just... meh.

    It depends who was that AA toon maybe... I guess you're aware that gears do matter.
    If the arcane toon as same kind of gears as you you can still deal descent dammage.
    ~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
    ~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
    ~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
    ~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
    ~ Sage Cleric 102 ~ Demon Wizard 101 ~
    ~ Sage Seeker 101 ~ Sage Psy 101 ~
    ~ Sage Heavy Veno 101 ~ Demon Storm 9X ~ Dusk 6x ~
    Started playing this game in 2007 on Oracle (PW-MY) : Demon MG 101 - Sage EP 99 - WF 89
  • jwillson123
    jwillson123 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Then that person made a logistical mistake.

    That is the main reason why I only aim for the full six candleflame sovereign A-Card set. The full lvl40 pvled set is superior to random full S-Cards all lvl80 in most aspects (you get more spirit but a bit less attack). So when you fully reborn or 2nd reborn the A-Set you even outmatch 4-piece S-Card sets. Fully 2nd rbed you are even nearly on par wirh a standard nuema portal non-rb set.

    For non-heavy csers it is simply dumb to aim for full S-Cards. It really is. Heck xD the best S Sets on our server are non-rbed 4 piece ones. If I manage to get my final card for the set then I will have the most powerful cards on the server w/o even wearing a single S-Card. Granted I would nearly be fully 1st rb on that set...but I still have alot of potential to 2nd rb it to gain even more advantages.

    S-Cards are more like prestige objects. You dont necessarily need to compete with full nuema poetal guys. They all dropped several thousands (some even up to 6 digits) into this game...so even if they still beat me..I won anyways. Cuz my count states 0 cash and I can still bug the hell outta them in PvP :p


    Actually you do know who that cleric is since I have seen you post comments on his youtube channel(he plays female cleric and his channel named squad something.
    He was not only very well geared but also was know as very skilled.
    He used to 1 shot most players b:laugh my friend told me he quit because he could not 1 shot people anymore.

    In your honest opinion what is best Chest to get A card set from? FSP A card chest or FSP S card chest?


    Also should people aim for vit stones instead of Jod
    ? Which do you use? Vit stones/JoD or just the free hp from weekly quest?
    Do you want PWI to fix the economy before is to late?
    please support Perfect World International Forum > Suggestion Box
    > Limit Auto Cultivation to 1 hour just like Hyper stones
  • Zoldi - Morai
    Zoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    That is the main reason why I only aim for the full six candleflame sovereign A-Card set. The full lvl40 pvled set is superior to random full S-Cards all lvl80 in most aspects (you get more spirit but a bit less attack). So when you fully reborn or 2nd reborn the A-Set you even outmatch 4-piece S-Card sets. Fully 2nd rbed you are even nearly on par wirh a standard nuema portal non-rb set.

    For non-heavy csers it is simply dumb to aim for full S-Cards. It really is. Heck xD the best S Sets on our server are non-rbed 4 piece ones. If I manage to get my final card for the set then I will have the most powerful cards on the server w/o even wearing a single S-Card. Granted I would nearly be fully 1st rb on that set...but I still have alot of potential to 2nd rb it to gain even more advantages.

    Are you really sure of that ? If you haven't checked Asterelle simulator yet, you probably should.
    ~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
    ~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
    ~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
    ~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
    ~ Sage Cleric 102 ~ Demon Wizard 101 ~
    ~ Sage Seeker 101 ~ Sage Psy 101 ~
    ~ Sage Heavy Veno 101 ~ Demon Storm 9X ~ Dusk 6x ~
    Started playing this game in 2007 on Oracle (PW-MY) : Demon MG 101 - Sage EP 99 - WF 89
  • sondok
    sondok Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    And that brings up another problem. Say you do farm your rear off. Say you do reach R9 with decent ornies. Say you do grab a bit of coin for S card chances. Every other few expansions PWI introduces something new that will raise (or lower, depending on view) the bar and add more work for the F2P crows to keep up.

    Rank 9 recasts started this as far as I'm aware. Then the tomes you can only get from SoT's, requiring you to buy a ton of packs. Then the War Avatars came in. The most blatant and direct form of buying power however, has to be spirit coins. I'm sure the PWI2 expansion will have yet another buy-or-grind-endlessly mechanic in it that will raise the paying crowd (or those who have massive reserves from before autoculti was curbed) above the rest. But what's the point of working towards a goal if the finish line moves away further and further all the time?

    And as for a BM deploying CC... kinda hard to do if you end up being oneshot material. BM CCs are most useful if you're in the middle of a big brawl - Surviving long enough to get there is the problem usually.

    It's the nature of mmo's. Almost every mmo has a model where you farm gear have it for a bit and then new gear comes out. Yes the timing for here is slightly short and there's usually multiple things to get at a time but I think it's because they cater to the CSing crowd and it's F2P. If someone CS's it, they get it right away(besides r9 3rd since you have to farm it). Once they get the gear and shard it and refine it..why would they keep spending money? War avatars are a slow but constant source of money from PWI since you have to buy packs to try and get an S card. So they release new gear, give people time to cs/shard/refine it and to play around with it a bit and then release a higher grade of gear.

    Yes it would be nice if they waited a bit more before releasing the next gear but I'm not in control of the company.
    lvl 101 ea from Lost City.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Actually you do know who that cleric is since I have seen you post comments on his youtube channel(he plays female cleric and his channel named squad something.
    He was not only very well geared but also was know as very skilled.
    He used to 1 shot most players b:laugh my friend told me he quit because he could not 1 shot people anymore.

    In your honest opinion what is best Chest to get A card set from? FSP A card chest or FSP S card chest?


    Also should people aim for vit stones instead of Jod
    ? Which do you use? Vit stones/JoD or just the free hp from weekly quest?

    Depends, I am full Vit Stones as a Barb and thats perfectly fine. I would say that any other class should roll josd if they can afford them. If not then Vits for heavy classes and Garnet Gems for Caster. The G9/9+/10 stones are sufficient as well.

    You are talking about cssquared? Ya pretty good cleric. But I know quite some ppl that got lost into S Cards. One actually spend thousands of Golds on it and just now switched to get the A-Set instead. Even if you manage to get an S-Set. Hell, do you really think you'll be lucky enough to get the cards 2 or 4 times? no way. Not w/o a reasonable cashload. A Cards are more likely to be completed. Most ppl can't even lvl their cards and then even a 4 piece A set is better then standard, unleveled S-Cards. **** S-Cards, ijs. They are inefficient cost-wise.

    You get the most A-Cards outta the fsp A-Packs. DON'T use the S-Packs for that stuff. The chance to get an A card outta the A-Packs is nearly triple the chance then to get one outta the S-Packs.
    Are you really sure of that ? If you haven't checked Asterelle simulator yet, you probably should.

    I did and what I said was entirely true:

    1st reborn vs random S cards

    2nd reborn vs 1st reborn random S cards

    Random S cards are not worth it, especially not in rb.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • jwillson123
    jwillson123 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Depends, I am full Vit Stones as a Barb and thats perfectly fine. I would say that any other class should roll josd if they can afford them. If not then Vits for heavy classes and Garnet Gems for Caster. The G9/9+/10 stones are sufficient as well.

    You are talking about cssquared? Ya pretty good cleric. But I know quite some ppl that got lost into S Cards. One actually spend thousands of Golds on it and just now switched to get the A-Set instead. Even if you manage to get an S-Set. Hell, do you really think you'll be lucky enough to get the cards 2 or 4 times? no way. Not w/o a reasonable cashload. A Cards are more likely to be completed. Most ppl can't even lvl their cards and then even a 4 piece A set is better then standard, unleveled S-Cards. **** S-Cards, ijs. They are inefficient cost-wise.

    You get the most A-Cards outta the fsp A-Packs. DON'T use the S-Packs for that stuff. The chance to get an A card outta the A-Packs is nearly triple the chance then to get one outta the S-Packs.

    Yes is it cssquared.

    Thanks a lot for the advice on A-Packs :).
    Do you want PWI to fix the economy before is to late?
    please support Perfect World International Forum > Suggestion Box
    > Limit Auto Cultivation to 1 hour just like Hyper stones