Sage Str Barbs

Beyn - Dreamweaver
Beyn - Dreamweaver Posts: 6 Arc User
edited September 2014 in Barbarian
How good is a Sage str barb in pvp.(1v1 and team) ty to all that answers.b:thanks
Post edited by Beyn - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    My PvP experience is limited and i only played a demon strength barb in very agressive playstyle.

    To me it makes most sence to either make a demon strength or a sage vit barb depending on what style you prefer.

    As a demon strength barb, you are a dangerous DD, but you very much risk your life as a mellee, similar to BMs and sins.
    As a sage vit barb, you wont be killing anyone who is properly geared, so that is not your goal. Your goal, besides holding catas and surviving long is more to annoy others, divert their attention, make them move, make them fear your armageddon maybe. But generally not much to kill or hurt people much.

    I as an offensive barb am mostly worried about how i can do more dmg because i kinda rely on killing people before they hurt me. How many hitpoints i have doesnt worry me that much. I have in fact once accidentally done half an NW without my armors on. I didnt really notice because usually either i kill them before they get to hit me, or a whole squad targets you before you get to do anything and it didnt really matter how much HP you had anyway :)

    Similarly, a catabarb with 60k HP, JOSDs and 400 str wont really bother about what dmg he does. Why care if you hit your HA enemies for 1k or 2k ? If you hit the squichies for 2k or 3k ? You aint gonna kill them so you might as well ignore dealing damage and use an R8r weapon.

    I think if you make a compromise build of sage str or demon vit, you might find yourself both a bit weak in killing power and also weak in tanking power.

    That said, i think great reason to be sage str is because you are not yet ready to be a catabarb and will restat to vit by that time. Until then you are better of with str for other non-cata tasks :)
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Well I can post on experience as a sage cata build barb. Before rb and all that with just around 24k hp or so nw was pretty fun. Yes there were quite a few casters that could nail the coffin, but against decent geared casters and melee's it was tons of fun and a lot of charm usage. even without invoke aps sins just tickle you. I am going mostly str this time around to see how that does, but having a decently refined weapon helps. When I rb again it will be back to cata build.
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    BTW, maybe of interest, i pulled some numbers out of my excel file to compare different builds"

    Damage output
    • Demon* 200 dex, 150vit, 670 str: 79000 (+75%) (ignoring the chance to hit)
    • Demon* 60 dex, 150vit, 810 str: 86000 (+91%)
    • Sage 60 dex, 150vit, 810 str: 70000 (+55%)
    • Sage 60 dex, 510 vit, 450 str: 45000 (base)

    Defence
    150 vit**, 810 str: 128000 (base)
    510 vit , 450 str: 175000 (+ 37%)

    I dont know all the sage skill bonusses by head and ecatomb is down, so im too lazy to find out what sage can do for defences. I also didnt check if there are any important sage effects that influence the damage output, but i dont think there are. All above is based on a 103-103-102 demon barb with +10 armors and +12 weapon. Nuemas level 5, 5 A cards and 1 S cards, all max leveled.

    It is not intended to fuel another sage vs demon or vit vs str debate.
    It is primarilly to show how different the builds are. With sage bonusses you are probably looking at +50% defence for the sage vit vs +90% offense for the demon strength. The demon strength barb needs 6 hits to kill himself, the sage vit needs 16 to kill himself (we both need more in reality because we do physical damage and the defence factor is an average vs magic and physical, just another way to look at the comparison)
    That makes entirely different toons, they might well give them different names and appearances.

    Also, you see that you get much more offense than defence. (Therefore use omalleys regardless of your build because here it is reversed. You dont want to miss out on that cheap chance for defence.) On lower geared toons, this difference is less pronounced. Note though that i am only +10 and HALF vit stones, so that is kinda "average".


    * assumed that 3 out of 4 attacks have onslought crit bonus
    ** an medium number from gear bonusses including some but not full vit stones. I made an estimate that maxing vit you probably wont get str much below 450 because you get 100 from the R9 as well as other bonusses from the individual parts. The total stat points add up to be the same for all builds.


    PS: another interesting fact: At R9+10 armor +12 weapon, pan gu tome, cheap secondary ring (but recasted +10 r9 ring) G14 amulet and all A cards, I got about 30% offense and 50% defence to go. That is with max leveled S cards, no sets or rebirths, neither crown of madness. Just G16 amulet, S cards, emperor, +12, JOSD. That 30 and 50% is the difference between a near endgame toon and a real endgame one.
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • Beyn - Dreamweaver
    Beyn - Dreamweaver Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    BTW, maybe of interest, i pulled some numbers out of my excel file to compare different builds"

    Damage output
    • Demon* 200 dex, 150vit, 670 str: 79000 (+75%) (ignoring the chance to hit)
    • Demon* 60 dex, 150vit, 810 str: 86000 (+91%)
    • Sage 60 dex, 150vit, 810 str: 70000 (+55%)
    • Sage 60 dex, 510 vit, 450 str: 45000 (base)

    Defence
    150 vit**, 810 str: 128000 (base)
    510 vit , 450 str: 175000 (+ 37%)

    I dont know all the sage skill bonusses by head and ecatomb is down, so im too lazy to find out what sage can do for defences. I also didnt check if there are any important sage effects that influence the damage output, but i dont think there are. All above is based on a 103-103-102 demon barb with +10 armors and +12 weapon. Nuemas level 5, 5 A cards and 1 S cards, all max leveled.

    It is not intended to fuel another sage vs demon or vit vs str debate.
    It is primarilly to show how different the builds are. With sage bonusses you are probably looking at +50% defence for the sage vit vs +90% offense for the demon strength. The demon strength barb needs 6 hits to kill himself, the sage vit needs 16 to kill himself (we both need more in reality because we do physical damage and the defence factor is an average vs magic and physical, just another way to look at the comparison)
    That makes entirely different toons, they might well give them different names and appearances.

    Also, you see that you get much more offense than defence. (Therefore use omalleys regardless of your build because here it is reversed. You dont want to miss out on that cheap chance for defence.) On lower geared toons, this difference is less pronounced. Note though that i am only +10 and HALF vit stones, so that is kinda "average".


    * assumed that 3 out of 4 attacks have onslought crit bonus
    ** an medium number from gear bonusses including some but not full vit stones. I made an estimate that maxing vit you probably wont get str much below 450 because you get 100 from the R9 as well as other bonusses from the individual parts. The total stat points add up to be the same for all builds.


    PS: another interesting fact: At R9+10 armor +12 weapon, pan gu tome, cheap secondary ring (but recasted +10 r9 ring) G14 amulet and all A cards, I got about 30% offense and 50% defence to go. That is with max leveled S cards, no sets or rebirths, neither crown of madness. Just G16 amulet, S cards, emperor, +12, JOSD. That 30 and 50% is the difference between a near endgame toon and a real endgame one.

    sry if this dont come out right im new to posting lol.Ty for the advice so my question is so u saying a pure str sage vs say a sage dph sin or psy.(both full r9 ofc).Whont have the hiting power to kill?
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Well wont have the power is a big word. But if they are the JOSD type and probably skillfull too, your chances of getting trough that charm before you are dead are a lot bigger if you crit 80% and thus zerk-crit 16% then when you crit 30% and thus zerk-crit 6%.
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • Beyn - Dreamweaver
    Beyn - Dreamweaver Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    Well wont have the power is a big word. But if they are the JOSD type and probably skillfull too, your chances of getting trough that charm before you are dead are a lot bigger if you crit 80% and thus zerk-crit 16% then when you crit 30% and thus zerk-crit 6%.

    ty good sir for the info b:thanks.It rly helped meb:pleased

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