About Multiclient

xueyingli · August 2014

Someone can give info about multiclient rules?
How many accounts can i open at the same time and for example if i do pv or tt can i open 4, 7, or more accounts at the same time for buff or farming or whatever?

anaovt1 · August 2014

The max allowed 2 per person. This means only 2 whether you're running it on the same computer or on 2 different ones. You personally are not allowed to be logged in to more than 2 accounts at once.

If multiple people in your household play, your address technically can have more than 2 online if they're being opened by different people. But you personally can only have 2.

WannaBM - Archosaur · August 2014

I dont think you need tot make an effort of reporting violators or worrying if you accidentaly violated yourself though.

This is one of the most broken rule there is and to my knowledge noone got banned for it. Unfortunately many players break this rule for the malevolent purpose of running many bots or catshops. I hope those do get banned someday. I have symphaty though for those who log in 3 or 4 clients for a very short time for PV.

And some tips to increase efficiency:

Suppose you have 2 accounts with 3 toons each. A1 A2 A3, B1, B2 B3

You let B1 open. Then he invites A1 and passes lead. B1 leaves the scene and Back comes B2. A1 invites B2 and passes lead. B2 can hold this opened instance for a while. I usually put him inside so that im sure its not going to go lost. It should of course work outside just as well. But i had some occasions where i lost the opened instance, or at least there were no mobs. This might be because my toon B2 did not take the token from the NPC. So now i just do it like this and its safe.

Next you find a person willing to help on his account C. You now do the same with your account A.

This way you can use 3 toons on each account but you only need to swap toons once.

anaovt1 · August 2014

Yeah, it's not very enforced at all. But it's also common courtesy to not have 10 bots running at once and I really wish those people got banned.

I personally think it's ok to log 3 to open TT or something, although my computer can barely handle 2 so I haven't done it.

Just make sure you know that rule is 2. Technically the rule is also that you can only have two accounts unless you had more before the rule was created. I had 3 already, so I can keep those, but new players are technically not allowed to make more than 2 accounts. Not like that's really possible to enforce unless you admit it.....

xueyingli · August 2014

umm that sounds good for me but i've seen pple with more than 7 accounts open at the same time to buff themselve when doind pv then they log out just some of them, but without counting the multiples catshops they also have open, on the other hand there are those guys that ask in wc for openers paying 400k for each helper, so..... u tell me.... it is unfair for those who has no more than 1 maybe just 2 high toon?.... i've seen the same pple doind tt all day with their own 4 chars instead others that have to waste in teles and time for doing just 1 maybe 2 squad runs..... so u tell me, It is fair?..... sry my bad english.

anaovt1 · August 2014

xueyingli wrote: »

umm that sounds good for me but i've seen pple with more than 7 accounts open at the same time to buff themselve when doind pv then they log out just some of them, but without counting the multiples catshops they also have open, on the other hand there are those guys that ask in wc for openers paying 400k for each helper, so..... u tell me.... it is unfair for those who has no more than 1 maybe just 2 high toon?.... i've seen the same pple doind tt all day with their own 4 chars instead others that have to waste in teles and time for doing just 1 maybe 2 squad runs..... so u tell me, It is fair?..... sry my bad english.

It's completely unfair and they should be banned for doing it. Don't stoop to their levels.

SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear · August 2014

They wont ban because most running 4+ alts usually have r9+++ so pw dont want to lose a great paying customer.So just do what you want.

MageMERC - Harshlands · August 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

And some tips to increase efficiency:

Suppose you have 2 accounts with 3 toons each. A1 A2 A3, B1, B2 B3

You let B1 open. Then he invites A1 and passes lead. B1 leaves the scene and Back comes B2. A1 invites B2 and passes lead. B2 can hold this opened instance for a while. I usually put him inside so that im sure its not going to go lost. It should of course work outside just as well. But i had some occasions where i lost the opened instance, or at least there were no mobs. This might be because my toon B2 did not take the token from the NPC. So now i just do it like this and its safe.

Next you find a person willing to help on his account C. You now do the same with your account A.

This way you can use 3 toons on each account but you only need to swap toons once.

OUCH you just hurt my brainb:cry

Unknown · August 2014

This content has been removed.

Cotillion - Dreamweaver · August 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

I
This is one of the most broken rule there is and to my knowledge noone got banned for it. Unfortunately many players break this rule for the malevolent purpose of running many bots or catshops. I hope those do get banned someday. I have symphaty though for those who log in 3 or 4 clients for a very short time for PV.

Wait...what?
It's okay to break the rules for some reasons, but not for others?
Person breaking the rules for catshop and person breaking the rules to open PV are both breaking the same rule. Both should be equally punished if this were to ever be enforced.

WannaBM - Archosaur · August 2014

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wait...what?
It's okay to break the rules for some reasons, but not for others?
Person breaking the rules for catshop and person breaking the rules to open PV are both breaking the same rule. Both should be equally punished if this were to ever be enforced.

You should become a police officer and shout "respect my authority"

Of course its different how you break rules.
Should he who speeds on a deserted road in the middle of nowhere be punished equally to he who speeds when passes the elementary school ?
Taking food out of the garbage is officially stealing.
Should someone stealing jewelry be equally punished to the one stealing food from the bin ?

Rules are not black and white. Nothing is black and white.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · August 2014

In the rules it's 2 max, but since a long time they do nothing about it or any other rules like that.

You can report 20 times someone sharing account and logging 10 clients at the same time with proof and the player will have no punishment.

The staff is becoming worse and worse and do nothing when those rules are abuse, you could report 2 players for the same thing and one will get ban and not the other, PWI doesn't apply the rules to everyone, it pretty much depend how they feel when they are reading the ticket and in 90% of the case it's a ''we will investigate...'' and nothing happen..

Cotillion - Dreamweaver · August 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

You should become a police officer and shout "respect my authority"

Of course its different how you break rules.
Should he who speeds on a deserted road in the middle of nowhere be punished equally to he who speeds when passes the elementary school ?
Taking food out of the garbage is officially stealing.
Should someone stealing jewelry be equally punished to the one stealing food from the bin ?

Rules are not black and white. Nothing is black and white.

And then you'll complain about the wild inconstancy about how things are handled by customer support.
This kind of reasoning is exactly why. Rules like 'only 2 clients allowed' are black and white. Nowhere does the rules about clients say "only 2 allowed, unless of course circumstances like inconvenience interfere, then break the rules all you want".
One guy gets punished and another doesn't based on the gray area of the person handling the case. Wildly different outcomes for people dong the exact same thing for different reasons - when the rules clearly state what is and is not allowed.
Sound familiar? Like, say, the customer support system of PWI that people loathe?

By your reasoning, I can't park in a handicapped zone while I watch a movie, but I can while running into the store because I'll only "be a few minutes".

WannaBM - Archosaur · August 2014

Of course, they could automate it and indeed simply ban everyone who logs more than 2 clients. I wouldnt have a problem with that. I dont really understand why this isnt done.

As it is however, they seem incapable of automating that, so it is customer support who has to investigate when someone submits a ticket about another player. If i were at customer support investigating people individually, yes i would make a difference. I would permaban IP for people who run 10 bots. I would temp ban people who run 3-4 shops. I would not take action against people using some alts to open TT or PV.

This because multibotting indeed is bad for the game economy and questing areas and gain huge unfair advantage. Multicatshopping just clutters the world with catshops which is kinda annoying but doesnt hurt much and gives only a small advantage. Opening TT and PV hurts noone and only provides some convenience to the violator.

Cotillion - Dreamweaver · August 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Of course, they could automate it and indeed simply ban everyone who logs more than 2 clients. I wouldnt have a problem with that. I dont really understand why this isnt done.

As it is however, they seem incapable of automating that, so it is customer support who has to investigate when someone submits a ticket about another player. If i were at customer support investigating people individually, yes i would make a difference. I would permaban IP for people who run 10 bots. I would temp ban people who run 3-4 shops. I would not take action against people using some alts to open TT or PV.

This because multibotting indeed is bad for the game economy and questing areas and gain huge unfair advantage. Multicatshopping just clutters the world with catshops which is kinda annoying but doesnt hurt much and gives only a small advantage. Opening TT and PV hurts noone and only provides some convenience to the violator.

LOL.....
Opening PV provides an unfair advantage to those who can spam open it many times a day and reach 105/105/105 for all those stat points. They can achieve this rather large stat advantage a lot faster than those of us who cannot.

TT openers are the same thing as botting. It allows people to spam open TT for no cost to get mats to flood into the market, the same as botting floods coins.

Meanwhile, there's someone who cannot spam TT, or farm a whole lot, so he multi-logs 5 botters to run while hes at work and sleeping so he can be able to keep up with gear. He does this in remote areas. He's hurting no one and only providing some convenience to himself as he does not have the time to farm otherwise.
He gets brutally punished and banned...while someone who spams TT 50times a day and floods the market with mats/coin gets away with it, simply because you like TT spamming and not botting?
Sure sounds like a fair system to me.

You cannot provide black and white reasoning for breaking the rules, if you deny anything as being black and white. Open the gray area up and the people you think should get away with it, in someone else's view should be punished.
Makes for a wildly inconsistent system where noone knows exactly what the rules are as the rules are up for the judgment and luck of whoever is enforcing them on any given day.

WannaBM - Archosaur · August 2014

TT opening is peanuts even without alts. I dont use multiclients because im too lazy to even open them and instead just WC if my buddy isnt there to open for me. So big is the advantage that im too lazy to take it.

PV same thing. Usually i just have my buddy open for me with his alts and i open for him with mine. If you have the toons, it is just a convenience. It is having the toons though that gives the advantage. I leveled a few of them specially for this purpose. If you are too lazy to do that, then no, you will not become 105,105,105. Even though i leveled some toons for opening, i now am too lazy to do boring PV anymore though, so i stuck at 104,103,102

You may not agree with me about rules being black and white or not sure, no problem. Different opions are always there. But claiming that opening TT / PV gives an advantage anywhere remotely near multibotting (where people can make a billion per month or more) is just total bullcrap

Cotillion - Dreamweaver · August 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

TT opening is peanuts even without alts. I dont use multiclients because im too lazy to even open them and instead just WC if my buddy isnt there to open for me. So big is the advantage.

PV same thing. Usually i just have my buddy open for me with his alts and i open for him with mine. If you have the toons, it is just a convenience. It is having the toons though that gives the advantage. I leveled a few of them specially for this purpose. If you are too lazy to do that, then no, you will not become 105,105,105. Even though i leveled some toons for opening, i now am too lazy to do boring PV anymore though, so i stuck at 104,103,102

You may not agree with me about rules being black and white or not sure, no problem. Different opions are always there. But claiming that opening TT / PV gives an advantage anywhere remotely near multibotting (where people can make a billion per month or more) is just total bullcrap

I'm not advocating either one being better or worse. Both are wrong and opening the can of gray only allows people to get away with it.
Know why those botters you hate will always get away with it? Because the PVers and TTers do too. As long as that gray area exists when there are clear cut rules, people will exploit it.

Keisari - Raging Tide · August 2014

TT- and PV-opening aren't really that bad violations. Opening the TT itself doesn't really profit at all as the bosses take some skill(unless end-game-geared) to kill. Kitty can quite safely say there's no way to solo even full TT3-1 without spending at least 120 mils in gears. And even then it's very very inefficient(unlikely to cover charm expenses).
But you can get started with afk-botting(which obviously doesn't require any skill at all, providing easy afk-income) with as low as 20 mils and still get decent income, not to mention T3-4APS sins(it costs about 120-150 mils to build one). And these sins can generate millions a day for no work. And if someone had 5 of them botting at the same time...it's massive profit.

Having some alts ready to open PV isn't that bad either. It's just convenience to not need to log them on one at a time between PV-runs(though it doesn't take more than 15 secs of efficient PV-time). So it's actually no-profit.

Multiclienting catshop-merchants are maybe worst violators as skilled merchants can have quite high coinflow even with one catshop, not to mention by having army of them. They can give quite massive profit and thus high advantage against those who merch with only one catshop.

Kitty thinks multi-clienting for massive profit should be punished as it affects game economy greatly even if it was just handful of players doing that. If half of the servers was allowed to multi-catshop or multi-bot, game economy would crash in an instant without a chance for recovery.
Multi-clienting for PV or TT doesn't really affect others, at least in any bad way. Technically it doesn't matter if one logged PV-openers in and out on second client or if had them already open on multiclients.

TT-runners being able to run TT efficiently keeps TT-mats prices low for those who don't run TT. Even TT Gold-mats are usually cheaper bought from farmers than chipped. Making TT-runners look for openers between runs makes it far less efficient, probably driving many off from farming TT and thus resulting in far higher TT-green mat prices, resulting in those who dislike TT being forced to farm TT. Even better if they don't have enough good gears for farming TT even in squad and couldn't afford buying mats anymore.

PV and TT also require really doing something instead of just checking PC every now and then for catshops and bots.

Unknown · August 2014

This content has been removed.

Aubree - Dreamweaver · August 2014

Comparing TT farming "coin circulation" to botting "coin generation" is stupid. Nothing in TT drops significant coins into the server. It just promotes coin circulation, which is vital to a thriving economy.

Sir_comsizer - Archosaur · August 2014

Although it's only 2 clients your allowed, i personally think it should be 4.

The reason being, if i'm dual clienting & my partner wants to do the same, it should be allowed and not be deemed as a bannable offence

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · August 2014

Sir_comsizer - Archosaur wrote: »

Although it's only 2 clients your allowed, i personally think it should be 4.

The reason being, if i'm dual clienting & my partner wants to do the same, it should be allowed and not be deemed as a bannable offence

That's fine. It's two per person per household.

Evryn - Morai · August 2014

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wait...what?
It's okay to break the rules for some reasons, but not for others?
Person breaking the rules for catshop and person breaking the rules to open PV are both breaking the same rule. Both should be equally punished if this were to ever be enforced.

Indeed, but it is not. I've reported dozens of grouped accounts for this in the past... No action was ever taken on any of these (realm: Morai). I've concluded that this rule is not enforced or violating it is simply being condoned. As a result, I've begun doing this myself, and much like not abusing the +10 orb fiasco I'm beating myself up over not having done it sooner - for I definately have the technical expertise to easily manage a fullblown botfarm by virtualising instances of the game itself.

Only way to really enforce this is to limit server connections per IP (a simple, fair, indiscriminate limitation that you won't be able to get around easily), but that'll generate a Q_Qstorm from the big merchants, botfarmers and "people who have families playing the game together" (with family members who enjoy being a bot or catshop 99% of their time usually).

WannaBM - Archosaur · August 2014

Quite recently, people abused the arc code to get endless free charms and dreamchaser tickets. I wrote about this on the forum but it was removed and said that you cant disduss exploits. PWI seemed to prefer to not solve the issue and think that if you keep silent about it and only few people abuse it badly, it aint that bad. Several people continued to post about it, the problem grew and eventually they fixed it. Huray ! This is also important to me. If more people are going to mega-multi client abuse because of this thread and run armies of dozens of bots, i dont mind. Let the problem get so big that PWI cant get around and it and has to do something about it. I prefer that over a handfull of people abusing it for years to come and PWI not feeling the need to do something. And really, you aint gonna tell me it is very hard to do something about this. So easy to just check how many clients logged in from 1 IP. (using proxies is already succesfully banned) You can even record how long it lasts and what the majority of action is on the clients. (like doing nothing and entering TT every so much time, Being catshop, being in auto culti, or a variaty of things which indicate active playing) Id also program indicators that warn when third party bots are probably being used and mark those cases for individual scrutiny. This way the server can differentiate between the type of violation handle most of it automatically without punishing people who accidentally have a client too many because 1 is minimized to the system tray and they dont realize its still there. The server can then easilly take the action that is appropriate with the degree of violation. (From disconnecting a client/giving a warning to banning an IP although probably you would never want to let the IP banning be done automatically

)

I think i could program such behaviour in a day easilly.

Roky_ - Archosaur · August 2014

Just one thing. WannaBM u talk to much. Done

Zoldi - Morai · August 2014

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wait...what?
It's okay to break the rules for some reasons, but not for others?

Actually if we're talking about "ethics" I would say "obviously"...

Let's take some example :
- That guy botting with 3+ (and some are using a lot more...) toons : This shouldn't be allowed and this is unfair
- That guy logging several alts for NW - Same, and because of them NW are not as fun as it should be
- That guy logging three alts to open TT without bothering friends/guildmates : who cares?
- That guy having 3 toons afk in archo ? Who cares?

This is the same rule but sometimes this affects only the player gaming experience and sometimes it ruins the game for other people or make it unfair... Personaly as long as I'm not impacted I don't care if someone is doing quests on four toons at once...

Veneir - Dreamweaver · August 2014

It's "two accounts per person unless you have super old grandfathered accounts, in which case it's been dismissed as fine" which makes this stupid to enforce. *shifty eyes*

Edit::..and then I read the thread. Since when did this typical alley argument become 'no more than two clients' and not 'no more than two accounts in general per person (unless x)'....

--anyway the general rule of thumb being 'S/he who multi-clients in a way that is respectful to other players' activities is fine multiclienting' sounds good. It shouldn't even have anything to do with the number of clients, really. Even someone just playing on one character can manage to be disruptive sometimes.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · August 2014

Veneir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's "two accounts per person unless you have super old grandfathered accounts, in which case it's been dismissed as fine" which makes this stupid to enforce. *shifty eyes*

Edit::..and then I read the thread. Since when did this typical alley argument become 'no more than two clients' and not 'no more than two accounts in general per person (unless x)'....

--anyway the general rule of thumb being 'S/he who multi-clients in a way that is respectful to other players' activities is fine multiclienting' sounds good. It shouldn't even have anything to do with the number of clients, really. Even someone just playing on one character can manage to be disruptive sometimes.

The grandfathered rule, only affects the number of accounts I can have, not the number of accounts I can have logged in at the same time.

Veneir - Dreamweaver · August 2014

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

The grandfathered rule, only affects the number of accounts I can have, not the number of accounts I can have logged in at the same time.

Nnnn, yes... I had skimmed the thread (without my glasses) and that makes bad misreads happen. Glad to see you thorough as ever.

Sir_Wolfman - Raging Tide · August 2014

My opinion seems to be the same as Zoldi's on this. As long as they aren't interrupting other players or abusing things for a huge unfair advantage then who cares.

freygin · August 2014

Do you guys stick with one main char ? Iis there a time when you want to switch to other class from your alts ?

For those with a lot of chars and treat them equally, do you really have the time to keep them up now that dailies are ridiculously plenty and time consuming for even one character to do all, such as morai, raccoon dailies, fsp, uch, do pv, do bh1 & 2 etc.

With this horizon expansion, the gap between char stats will be a lot more. Alts are alts and that's why they're called alts, but before this expansion, the gap was just because we invested more of our fund on main character, now it also takes time investment into consideration, soon ppl with a lot of alts will be too lazy to even log them in because they will be too weak. What will happen to your alts then, will you still keep your alts or sell them or what.

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