How much coins can you generate in a Month?

jwillson123 · July 2014

I am curious how much coins people are currently making a month.
These days it seems a billion a month is just not enough to get end gear.

It would take you 3 years of making 1 billion a month to reach fully end gear character
(not including S card set....)

Its possible to make 3 billion of pure profit in a month?

olbaze1 · July 2014

You're not thinking of it like a merchant. Merchants don't make linear profits. We make exponential profits. If you can manage 1000m in a month with a 20% margin, the next time you're going to be making 1200m, then 1440m and so on. The exponential nature of our profits comes from the fact that you're constantly reinvesting your profits, thus if your margin is constant, your absolute profits are increasing.

Also, you're not thinking like a player either. A player will have a source of income that is not profit. For example, say you go autocultivate and manage 30 million a day. That's different from profit, since you're getting a constant +30m, rather than +30 and then your margin. In the 1 billion case, you would look like this:

Month 0: 0 profit
Month 1: 1000m profit +30m earnings
Month 2: 1236m profit +30m earnings
Month 3: 1,519.2m profit +30m earnings

And really, there's only one thing to know: The more you invest, the more you make. The more you play, the more you make.

Toliman - Raging Tide · July 2014

olbaze1 wrote: »

You're not thinking of it like a merchant. Merchants don't make linear profits. We make exponential profits. If you can manage 1000m in a month with a 20% margin, the next time you're going to be making 1200m, then 1440m and so on. The exponential nature of our profits comes from the fact that you're constantly reinvesting your profits, thus if your margin is constant, your absolute profits are increasing.

Also, you're not thinking like a player either. A player will have a source of income that is not profit. For example, say you go autocultivate and manage 30 million a day. That's different from profit, since you're getting a constant +30m, rather than +30 and then your margin. In the 1 billion case, you would look like this:

Month 0: 0 profit
Month 1: 1000m profit +30m earnings
Month 2: 1236m profit +30m earnings
Month 3: 1,519.2m profit +30m earnings

And really, there's only one thing to know: The more you invest, the more you make. The more you play, the more you make.

Let think like you:
what is maximum possible number of merchants-competitors per server ?
Can, for example, 1000 players get 1,519.2m profit +30m earnings every third month after start (they are all "smart", of course) b:laugh ?

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide · July 2014

I know people that farm TT over a 2x weekend and make 500+ million which is legitimate, but insane. I don't have the patience for it.

And I'm sure the illegal bots that never stop except web the server is down, or if they crash must be making coin hand over fist. For example, I know of a certain Silver faction on RT that has had their 24/7 3rd party bots going for a couple of years if not longer, in the same area. They just FC a new set of sage sins every so often. And yes its very easy to tell they aren't using auto-cultivation, so I'm sure they have made many many billions in coin.

A sin using hooks is good for about five hours before the weapon breaks and they are ported to a safe zone. The 3rd party sin bots just stop, fly straight up, then over to a NPC, then straight down, sell, repair, straight back up, over and down and never have to stop. These are the type of bots you need to worry about. On RT they are breeding like cockroaches and are showing up more and more.

I occasionally auto-culti just to make a little coin for skills for alts, but the most I make is around 20 to 30 mill a month. I mainly do it to slowly make xp which isnt as fast as RoR, but has a small reward that RoR doesn't have. Now I do cash shop for my main character.

I'm sure others that have more time and find areas like Morai, heaven, and hell make a lot of coin while auto cultivating, though they also tend to bot quest mobs. Is botting a problem? Sure for the f2p player. Is auto cultivation the biggest issue? No. The bigger problem is the 3rd party botters. Those using auto cultivation are just trying to legally keep up even with the increase in available coins on the server.

Zoldi - Morai · July 2014

olbaze1 wrote: »

You're not thinking of it like a merchant. Merchants don't make linear profits. We make exponential profits. If you can manage 1000m in a month with a 20% margin, the next time you're going to be making 1200m, then 1440m and so on.

I agree with you saying this is not linear but this will be exponential only if everything is fine. Demands can reach a limit (and this limit will not even be the same each month). You can also see newcomers who want to compete with your market(s) (and I think your lucky if you never have o change your marging

But your conclusion is the good one.

hiitsmeguys · July 2014

olbaze1 wrote: »

You're not thinking of it like a merchant. Merchants don't make linear profits. We make exponential profits. If you can manage 1000m in a month with a 20% margin, the next time you're going to be making 1200m, then 1440m and so on. The exponential nature of our profits comes from the fact that you're constantly reinvesting your profits, thus if your margin is constant, your absolute profits are increasing.

Also, you're not thinking like a player either. A player will have a source of income that is not profit. For example, say you go autocultivate and manage 30 million a day. That's different from profit, since you're getting a constant +30m, rather than +30 and then your margin. In the 1 billion case, you would look like this:

Month 0: 0 profit
Month 1: 1000m profit +30m earnings
Month 2: 1236m profit +30m earnings
Month 3: 1,519.2m profit +30m earnings

And really, there's only one thing to know: The more you invest, the more you make. The more you play, the more you make.

Theory is flawed, constant exponential profits rely on a few things, ever increasing equal or greater exponential demand and no competition. In fact most so called big merchants who invest a lot are making break even or negative profits due to out of control inflation. There are likely on 1 or 2 merchants per server who can account for inflation and still make huge profits. This usually requires some sort of higher knowledge fro outside of pwi and economic forecasting 6-12 months in advance.

Fail_BM - Raging Tide · July 2014

I used to get around 50 mill doing Jones quest with 3 alts.

Maybe 20 mill from BH, if I was up for it.

Almost nothing from autocultivation, around 1 mill/night, I really hate to leave my laptop running over night.

I had so many alts I couldn't afford G16b:laugh

WannaBM - Archosaur · July 2014

Purely depens on your effort.

1) Do some day-day merchanting. Meaning buy and selling in a day for micro margins. like tokens or the current sale. Depending on the sales you got that month id say expect between 500m and 1b per month although it very much depends on the time you invest and how many shops you want to set in different places. (illegal ofc to have more than 2, but some do, maybe they can make much more than what i just wrote) You dont really need a huge investment for this. Takes lots of time though, need to constantly keep an eye on your competetors and addept.

2) Do some long term investing when you have the capital for it. I made some 20% per month on my 5bil capital. I think you can double that if you have the investment capital to 20% from 10bil. For 2 bil a month. I think its hard to go much higher though since the market is limited in size.

3) A good farming toon can easilly make 10m per hour without 2x. So do that 100 hours per month as well and there you got another bil.

overcomem · July 2014

I made around 800-900M + with my altsss by auto culti and it's pure coins. No need to worry about deman/supply/compete merchant. And no need to sell your life by staying in the front of your monitor PC 24/7

But first you need really good PC if you know what I'm talking about. b:chuckle

bloodedone87 · July 2014

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide wrote: »

I know people that farm TT over a 2x weekend and make 500+ million which is legitimate, but insane. I don't have the patience for it.

And I'm sure the illegal bots that never stop except web the server is down, or if they crash must be making coin hand over fist. For example, I know of a certain Silver faction on RT that has had their 24/7 3rd party bots going for a couple of years if not longer, in the same area. They just FC a new set of sage sins every so often. And yes its very easy to tell they aren't using auto-cultivation, so I'm sure they have made many many billions in coin.

A sin using hooks is good for about five hours before the weapon breaks and they are ported to a safe zone. The 3rd party sin bots just stop, fly straight up, then over to a NPC, then straight down, sell, repair, straight back up, over and down and never have to stop. These are the type of bots you need to worry about. On RT they are breeding like cockroaches and are showing up more and more.

I occasionally auto-culti just to make a little coin for skills for alts, but the most I make is around 20 to 30 mill a month. I mainly do it to slowly make xp which isnt as fast as RoR, but has a small reward that RoR doesn't have. Now I do cash shop for my main character.

I'm sure others that have more time and find areas like Morai, heaven, and hell make a lot of coin while auto cultivating, though they also tend to bot quest mobs. Is botting a problem? Sure for the f2p player. Is auto cultivation the biggest issue? No. The bigger problem is the 3rd party botters. Those using auto cultivation are just trying to legally keep up even with the increase in available coins on the server.

So you are telling me that a person use an illegal system that alows him to stop when weapon is broke, fly to city, repair then get back and continue? All this without touching the keyboards? And without using the the system in the game? they use another system thats illegal. If the 3rd party botters exists as many as you say and if they existed before the auto cultivation why the hell the gold price has raised up since auto culti started and not before?

WannaBM - Archosaur · July 2014

bloodedone87 wrote: »

why the hell the gold price has raised up since auto culti started and not before?

Wrong, it has always been rising.

I dont even think it rises (much) faster last year. I been playing for 2 years or so. The first it rose from 1.2 to 2. The second it rose from 2 to 2.9 today.

But you know how it is. You cant run your PC at night for whatever reason while others can. So you envy them and blame them

That said, i do agree it is wrong when people are running more than 2 at once.

Illyn - Raging Tide · July 2014

I came back to pwi 4 months ago after a 2 year break, when I had just a r8 wizard with T3 boots and T2 wrists.

Since then I've been doing jolly jhones in 3 lvl 71-80 chars (mystic, seeker and bm) for around 1.2-1.5m spending less than half hour a day (I always skip the snake quest, doing only the lake and fruit picking ones, since they are much faster).
I intend to lvl up to 7x also my cleric and psychic (both currently lvl 55) to raise my income.
I don't have an high lvl apser so currently I can't really farm instances, but I'll start to run cube event for cogs.

So I get around 40-55m each month depending also on bh rewards I get with my rb wizard.

I also buy 13 gold a month, resulting in almost 40m in raging tides.

This way I got my T3 magic sword, T3 hat and I'm almost getting a T3 robe.

bloodedone87 · July 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Wrong, it has always been rising.

I dont even think it rises (much) faster last year. I been playing for 2 years or so. The first it rose from 1.2 to 2. The second it rose from 2 to 2.9 today.

But you know how it is. You cant run your PC at night for whatever reason while others can. So you envy them and blame them

That said, i do agree it is wrong when people are running more than 2 at once.

That is what I,ve been saying over and over. PW should stop ppl from using 10 chars same time.

SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear · July 2014

I can make 570mill off of 6 alts just doing fsp if i would stay current on them lol,thats just selling coins/c cards,589mil if i add 1 more day for the months with 31 days

Cotillion - Dreamweaver · July 2014

olbaze1 wrote: »

The more you play, the more you make.

I quit this game for a long time, only coming back when I heard about the auto-culti system from friends. I quit because I refused to treat a game like a 2nd job, even though I enjoyed the game itself. The more you play was too forced to 'keep up'.
Now, I make 80mil +/- a week from auto-culti alone (not counting bh, other playtime)...so 320mil (ish) a month from that. I've never kept track of what I get from bh's, and that stuff.
While this may seem like chump change to some, its enough for me to casually work on characters and actually play the way I want when I'm online without being a slave to mindless farming things I don't enjoy or even watching markets.
The game still requires the attention of a 2nd job......but now the work is done when I'm AFK thanks to auto-culti.

Salari - Raging Tide · July 2014

Well right around 2 years ago, I farmed enough in mats from TT give or take during the first month of 2x pw had to make 4 r9 armor pieces. I am not sure the exact amount of coins that ended up being but I am sure it was close to 1b maybe more if you count what I did not sell. I actually did very bad drop wise, so I could have made a ton more if I had been lucky. I am not sure if a chip/medal sale was going on at that time so I really have no idea what I made

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide · July 2014

bloodedone87 wrote: »

So you are telling me that a person use an illegal system that alows him to stop when weapon is broke, fly to city, repair then get back and continue? All this without touching the keyboards? And without using the the system in the game? they use another system thats illegal. If the 3rd party botters exists as many as you say and if they existed before the auto cultivation why the hell the gold price has raised up since auto culti started and not before?

As others have said, gold has been steadily going up with a few times it would drop a little, then back up again. It just seems like it has gone up a lot more than previous times. The gold is dependent on people that buy Zen and sell their gold. Over time as a game matures, those with the means to buy Zen, then put gold in the AH, have slowly gone on to other games, or are holding onto it . Less gold, the more it costs for f2p players to buy it.

And yes, the bots be it auto culti or 3rd party do add to the problem, but without Zen buyers that sell their gold, then what? Bots or no bots, if there is little gold available, the f2p players are forced to buy it at whatever the gold sellers want to sell it for. That means a steady decrease in the gold available on the market. As a cash shopper, I rarely sell my gold in the AH. I never sell my tokens from packs, I don't farm mats, and the gold economy means very little to me. The only thing I might sell my gold for is to buy a SoT which has eluded me so far, yet because of this, I don't need worry about the economy of the game.

What I do see are some cash shoppers opening packs and attempting to sell "rare" items for way more than their worth, in hopes of finding a sucker that will buy. On RT there is a cat shop trying to sell that colored deer mount for 1.5 billion coins, and pack fashion for 265 million, even hair for 165 million. While gold might seem expensive, there are items even more so. Raging Tides isn't called Ripoff Tides for nothing.

bloodedone87 · July 2014

Well you can't blame them if someone will be that stupid to buy fashion pack for 260milb:chuckle
I seen someone on RT trying to sell skycover with 300mil.

MageMERC - Harshlands · July 2014

Fail_BM - Raging Tide wrote: »

I used to get around 50 mill doing Jones quest with 3 alts.

Maybe 20 mill from BH, if I was up for it.

Almost nothing from autocultivation, around 1 mill/night, I really hate to leave my laptop running over night.

I had so many alts I couldn't afford G16b:laugh

Wow you are describing me almost exactly, except I still have too many alts and **** gear.

EDIT - with FSP, bh 100 and JOJ (speak quests only - not actually doing the other quests) I made about 40-50mill I guess.

Jaabg - Sanctuary · July 2014

I have no issue with high, low gold prices. As merchants you adjust your price accordingly.

It is those baboons who buy gold that drive me mad b:angry. There is an order of 150 gold at 3m. Next bid is 3.1m 2 gold. Next bid, 3.3m 10 gold. Next bid 3.35m 2 gold. Next bid 3.6m 20 gold. People will keep on bidding 50k~400k higher than the previous bid with small volumes.

And people complain about inflation b:shutup.

mntainr · July 2014

Something that might be overlooked in relation to inflation, is how certain thing is supported or not by the game. For example, the addition of bh and its reward increase gold price but you can argue that the game is better off with bh, despite the price rise because the game can support it. The price rise is small enough or smaller than the gains. On the other hand, you can argue that the game does not support the recent excess coins being generated over the last few months, therefore price rise beyond the benefit of recent excess, along with other undesirable things.

WannaBM - Archosaur · July 2014

I dont understand what you really mean or dont agree.

The basic is, there is a total amount of coins in the server. People with coins want to use it to buy gold so they get stuff that is usefull. If they dont buy gold with it, the player whom they buy something else from probably will. There is a limited amount of gold available, so the ratio of gold available and total coins wanting to buy that gold makes the gold price. It does not matter where the coins come from. Only how much there are and how fast they circulate.

The total coin sinks need to equal the total coins generated.

jwillson123 · July 2014

overcomem wrote: »

I made around 800-900M + with my altsss by auto culti and it's pure coins. No need to worry about deman/supply/compete merchant. And no need to sell your life by staying in the front of your monitor PC 24/7

But first you need really good PC if you know what I'm talking about. b:chuckle

Good luck getting full game gear. It will take you 4 years of botting to get full r9r3 +12 JoD full S card set.
I am sure you can not even sleep properly

having to manage and checking bots all the time.

mntainr · July 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

I dont understand what you really mean or dont agree.

The basic is, there is a total amount of coins in the server. People with coins want to use it to buy gold so they get stuff that is usefull. If they dont buy gold with it, the player whom they buy something else from probably will. There is a limited amount of gold available, so the ratio of gold available and total coins wanting to buy that gold makes the gold price. It does not matter where the coins come from. Only how much there are and how fast they circulate.

The total coin sinks need to equal the total coins generated.

Was saying that adding bh reward made the game better, but the recent surplus coins pump into the game made it worst, because the game can support one but not the other.

SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear · July 2014

overcomem wrote: »

I made around 800-900M + with my altsss by auto culti and it's pure coins. No need to worry about deman/supply/compete merchant. And no need to sell your life by staying in the front of your monitor PC 24/7

But first you need really good PC if you know what I'm talking about. b:chuckle

Yeah like for stuff to abuse the ToS with over 2 Alts at one time,yep we understand.

Jaabg - Sanctuary · July 2014

SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah like for stuff to abuse the ToS with over 2 Alts at one time,yep we understand.

I can't find the threads, i am sure others can help out. In PWI there is one rule

1) Glitch found, abuse it or loose it.

If you play by the rules, that is up to you. PWI has a very mixed policy on how it deals with abuses in the game. There is a long list of abuses.

Come to think of it, after the ocean orb fiasco, there hasn't been any major glitch found so far in the game right?

Things are breaking down in the game, but no major glitches. Could be that botting has made people's mind numb to finding glitches b:chuckle?

Toliman - Raging Tide · July 2014

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

I can't find the threads, i am sure others can help out. In PWI there is one rule

1) Glitch found, abuse it or loose it.

If you play by the rules, that is up to you. PWI has a very mixed policy on how it deals with abuses in the game. There is a long list of abuses.

Come to think of it, after the ocean orb fiasco, there hasn't been any major glitch found so far in the game right?

Things are breaking down in the game, but no major glitches. Could be that botting has made people's mind numb to finding glitches b:chuckle?

You are wrong.

Honest people exist always, but such as you prefer to deny it.

WannaBM - Archosaur · July 2014

Yes, but he does have a point:

If PWI doesnt take action against abusers like for example long ago the goon glitch, people see that those who benefitted dont get punished.

The more often that happens, the more people are going to abuse.

In the end its those who dont abuse who effectively get punished for they are left out.

So thats why people think "abuse it or loose it."

And there are different shades of grey. Some abuses are over the top (like 10 bots) but i can fully understand that people will try to enter a code twice when there is one (10* orbs)

Fissile - Archosaur · July 2014

I've been making a steady 750 - 1500m per month for the last year or 2 from my cat shop. Sometimes I farm a little bit but it is mostly for my alts' gear or for faction members. It doesn't take very much effort (just keeping an eye on people selling stuff and buying stuff from boutique to resell).

Any more than that isn't really worth the effort. I hardly play the game anymore. I log in and talk to people mostly. I could probably make twice as much coin if I really cared to, but I don't even know what to do with the 8 billion or so capital I have right now. DoD and DoT are so rare on the server it is next to impossible to fully shard 1 toon even if you have the money. I figure I will hold onto it and hope they add a real coin sink to the game...

Jaabg - Sanctuary · July 2014

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

You are wrong.

Honest people exist always, but such as you prefer to deny it.

I am not talking about whether players are honest or not, whether they abuse glitches or not, whether we should abuse glitches or not.

In pwi, if an exploit exists, people abuse it. The problem occurs in the QQ threads after, and the repercussions of those exploits.

Goon glitch - 105 easy mode, lvl alts to 100 easy mode.

Repercussion - OP people only have to get 105x2, they already have their army to open pv valley, so 105x3 is not hard.

Ocean Orb glitch - if the above goon glitcher took part in this, even if the gear was not OP, they could easily +10/+11 their gear.

Repercussion - Levelling, PVE, PVP much easier now. Cost to +12 gear reduced significantly, easier to +12 gear.

Reputation fiasco - Pwi gave out too many heroic chests

Repercussion - Easy money to be made, could get 4~7, 11/12 star orbs.

Blessing fiasco - the end result was hush hush, but the damage was done

Reprecussion - clever ones got the gear pieces, orbs, items they wanted for free.

Caster vana unlimited edition - Something good for the casters after how they get shunned in aps vana.

Reprecussion - casters made bucket loads of money.

The list goes on and on. My point was pwi did not apply their policies in a similar manner to the exploits and glitches in the game. They erred towards leniency. That gives the players the impression it is "ok" to make use of future exploits because the management is not strict.

The already reduced population of the game is affected by the above outcomes, but that derails the thread.

Back on topic: 0 coin to 2b a month. With gold being hard to acquire, it will be harder for folks to merchant and bring in similar profits from boutique items.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · July 2014

hiitsmeguys wrote: »

Theory is flawed, constant exponential profits rely on a few things, ever increasing equal or greater exponential demand and no competition. In fact most so called big merchants who invest a lot are making break even or negative profits due to out of control inflation. There are likely on 1 or 2 merchants per server who can account for inflation and still make huge profits. This usually requires some sort of higher knowledge fro outside of pwi and economic forecasting 6-12 months in advance.

A few of the things you say aren't necessarily applicable.

The demand does not need to increase if you're not able to meet it in the first place. And considering the competition, that is most likely true. And the competition is only relevant if they are willing to compete with you. My personal experience speaks to the contrary: Most competitors are only willing to compete if you're their equal. If you're not matching them in assets, they can ignore you and if you're their economic superior, they simply cannot compete properly. I have been on all sides of that fence.

Also, while I said "exponential profits", I meant "exponential in relation to your original investment", not "exponential over time". The profits of a merchant will always be exponential ([profit%^cycles]*originalInvestment=assetsNow))

I am not what I would call a "big" merchant, but I do have assets of at least 2500m coins, probably closer to 3000m. And I have been making consistent "large" profits (~25-30%) until my server hit the gold cap at 3,999,900. I am still making profits even with that, but it's "large".

How much coins can you generate in a Month?

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