People who refuse to listen/Be a team player in Squads

Colum - Raging Tide
Colum - Raging Tide Posts: 1,696 Arc User
edited September 2014 in General Discussion
Yes yes, it's one of Colum's pointless threads again... b:chuckle

Seriously though, I actually have quite a large subject to discuss about in this thread. I apologize ahead of time if I sidetrack from my main subject since so many things concern this and sometimes it's hard to keep my thoughts in one thing. Also, if mods can think of a better title for the subject, feel free to change it!

Let's get to the actual matter I wanted to discuss about,

I've always noticed how much people seem to reject such things as kind advice and few cool tips, or even a polite request in a situation where you could REALLY use a certain kind of help from another player. Often the advice you give to these people, with fully good intensions, gets rejected or marked as rude acting.

It also seems to fall on all forms of the gameplay... Building your toon, soloing, PVE squads, 1vs1, PVP squads, even simple game mechanics.

I'm going to give you a simple example of what I mean:

You're in a BH 59 squad as a tank psychic, and you have quite a few high level toons you're pretty good at playing and know what you expect from your squad. You have DDs, cleric and a mystic in said squad. Cleric does not trust the tank job for you, instead gets bossy and tells the barb to do it. The same cleric's heals are getting unnecessarily overwritten by the mystic who also happily aggros everything that moves. You, as the psychic tank who knows a bit better way to go around of things, suggest that the cleric could trust the tanking to you and give some heals as you aggro the mobs, you also suggest the barbarian could tank the physical mobs and mystic could help with DD and heal only when needed, not rushing too far ahead from the squad. Barb is willing to listen to your suggestion, mystic acts like nothing happened and cleric throws a ragefit on you about how a psy is not a tank class.

By no means do I want to be rude or mean when I advice people. I like teaching other players my own ways - they might even get something out of it! If they already know what I've told to them, that is perfectly fine. If they know a BETTER way to do things than what I've suggested, I'm cool with that too as long as you have something to back up your statements with.

However, most of the time when I try to give kind gear advice (for example using elemental def ornaments on a barb or prioritizing squad over self) I tend to get following replies:

A. *Total ignore*
B. I play to have fun and do what I want
C. I think I know how to play my class ty
D. Omg dont tell me what to do!!! *ragequits*
E. Whatever

WHERE this attitude comes from? Especially in the case of B it seems like I hit the nail on the head in whatever I happened to say, and he player just wants to be stubborn and do things their way rather than be efficient for the squad. Why do people play MMORPGs if you cannot adjust and adapt for your squad? Why should the squad keep around someone who thinks that they can rush ahead everyone just because that is their way to play?

Type A is usually the one that does not pay attention to anything that happens anyway, the silent types or the ones who simply do not understand english.

Type C and D seem to be in the stage of constant denial and type E... well, I don't even have any comments on that.

Luckily there are few people who can actually take advice as advice without having a temper tantrum over it... I guess I'm just tired of even trying to give some heads up about what the squad could do better or how the player could improve themselves... b:surrender Do others have similar experiences about this? How do you tend to deal with these kind of people? Feel free to discuss about your views and experiences on this matter - about how people react to given advice and how do you think about the "fun vs effective" scenario.

TL;DR - Why everyone it's ok to do whatever you want in squad stuations with other people involved?
Post edited by Colum - Raging Tide on
Leader of Cyanure on Valonsurma and a proud member of Vertu
Demon Strength Barbarian 103/103/101

Demon Pure Mag Cleric 102/102/101 | Demon 4 APS Assassin 102/102/101 | Demon Pure Mag Mystic 102/101/101 | Demon Pure Mag Psychic 100/100/93 | Demon 4 APS-Barbarian 100/100 | HA-venomancer 100 | DPH Assassin 100 | Pure Mag Wizard 100 | Demon Pure Mag Stormbringer 96 | Demon DPS Archer 94 | Sage Vit Barbarian 93 | Demon All-Path Blademaster 93 | Str Seeker 86 | Pure Mag Venomancer 81 | Pure Mag Wizard 81 | Pure Dex Duskblade 47
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Comments

  • ZentDreigon - Raging Tide
    ZentDreigon - Raging Tide Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I believe there is one thing to consider: the language and the wording used to give those advices.

    Usually in a squad people tend to be as quick as possible to suggest something. Usually it ends up going like "you should to this" or "you shold not do that". Most people I've met in game seem to read that as order and reject it imediately without even paying attention to the logic.

    I myself always try to be as simple as possible when teaching something so I go straight forward what I mean. Most of the time people want to finish an instance ASAP and don't want to stop to get advice.

    I hear a lot of "I play for fun", but I must point out that the fun might be staying alive and enjoying a smooth run without death. I like when a run goes well, but if the one who plays for fun and don't take team work seriously is in then this attitude will ruin the fun for the others. I bet they don't think about it.

    An exemple. I've been on a BH79 with my lv86 cleric these days. There was a wizard. I have experience as wizard so I told him, and I quote: attack the magic mobs, not the archers. I had my reasons for this, but as the squad didn't wait much I had to skip the details. He immediately told me he had Stone Barrier and could handle them. But the detail I skipped was he as using only citrines and elemental ornaments (both for channeling)... Well, you get the picture. That wizard alone made the run very frustrating till about hands. From then on he started to attack magic mobs only and the rest of the run went smooth. He even started to wait after I said "if you wait a bit to attack you won't steal aggro so fast and will survive longer". Always nice to type and heal at same time. Maybe my "if you wait" was more polite for his eyes tha saying "wait before you attack". This is the wording I mentioned.

    The above is what I meant earlier: one ruining the fun for others. The barb got pissed the wizzy stole aggro from archers and got killed; the wizard got pissed I didnt heal his crystal toon against archers who killed him in between IH ticks; and the rest of members just waited. After the wizard got in sync the squad was great and the fun was plenty.

    I don't try to be nice or bad when giving advice. I simply try to pass th message. Maybe sometimes I chose my words poorly because of the tiny time gap from skill to skill or because the squad is running against time.

    Friends will most likely always listen to advice from friends, but receiving advice from people one does not know might be the main problem regarding this issue. I recommend people listen to othes' advices. Maybe a highly experienced player is just playing a low level toon alongside you and your squad and they want to help you improve your skill. Give people a chance and don't take advice as offense.

    b:bye Hope I didnt typo too much.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    > A demon is driven by desire, pure desire, that cannot be stopped by reason or logic. - Mo Zun
    > Believing in demons doesn't mean believing in evil. Demons are not necessarily an evil thing. - Chin Wuming
  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I don't mind listening to the 'advice' of others as long as they 'follow' certain criteria:

    1. Don't brush of everything I say like I have the IQ of a duck.

    2. Don't come off pushy with your 'advice', if it seems like your being bossy, you'll likely get ignored/see defiance.

    3. Don't be a donkey's rear either. (Ties in with 2 I admit. :$) Though really if you come off insulting me there is no way I am going to listen to your advice. Stating facts is fine, but being pushy about it/repeating it in a way that comes off as if you know it all, again expect to see defiance/ignoring of a 'statement.'

    4. Don't treat me like I don't have a clue about the class I chose.

    Example of how to ask/'tell': "Throatcut has a better cancel rate than Knife Throw"

    Example of how NOT to ask/tell: "Moron, learn how to play your damn class, Throatcut has a better ****ing cancel rate than knife throw"


    Point is if your rude or off putting with your 'advice' I am a lot less receptive of it. (willing to guess a lot of people have a similar feeling as this.

    ---

    I am sure there is more, and I too had to learn at one time or another, and I listened to the advice that was given to me.
    Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick

    What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)
  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    -Meow-

    To OP: the responses like above quoted seem to be cropping up more and more on the forums now. Previously when a poster asked for things on the forum, they were kind. Even if they decided to do the opposite because they thought it was right. Which is fine, it's a game, once you get an understanding, best to try it out yourself. But sadly posters now a days refuse to read, listen, comprehend. They ask for things, and say i will do X. When you tell them x is not as good as Y for the following reasons. The flame war begins.

    As for finding such people, i only become bossy when i run with random people and sin's don't rib strike bosses when i am tanking and they can not tank. Where sins think their aps with g13~r9 3rd cast daggers is better suited than doing sub sea in an aoe situation.

    It reached a point, where i grew tired of asking people, now my hp is such i just my bm on macro. If someone steals agro from me and dies, so be it, i can't hold bosses like barbs b:dirty. I rely on dps to survive.

    When i go with friends, i often outline what i want from everyone. These days i prefer the clerics not to BB in delta 2~3 runs. Most have a fun time dd'ing. Some get offended. Some bb, because they are going afk. Everyone seems to have good enough hp and defense that a group heal or ih is enough.

    Unlike most people who have played this game as long as i have, i have 0 idea about what other classes do while playing. I always ask questions, and make me sound noob, but its fun to learn. One time during full delta a barb taught me how arma worked. We had gs, hf, sub sea combo with the arma. Until the last stage all waves were one shot. I was amazed that barbs are useful in delta. Most barbs run in, invoke and run back, they don't bother to agro.

    To get back on topic, if a person in squad asks, says, tells something, and you being squishy helps you survive, be thankful. If it does not help you survive, stick it to them b:pleased.

    I have very rarely come across anyone to tell me how to play my class. Maybe i find good people to run with.b:cute. That being said, i am one of the few bm who still uses mss and people are amazed at what the skill is b:surrender, because they have never seen it before (joys of being a cleric as a bm)
  • ZentDreigon - Raging Tide
    ZentDreigon - Raging Tide Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Example of how NOT to ask/tell: "Moron, learn how to play your damn class, Throatcut has a better ****ing cancel rate than knife throw"

    *Adds caps lock to the formula.* Ah, this type of wording brings me back memories.
    I have very rarely come across anyone to tell me how to play my class.

    Now that you mentioned this I don't remember many people giving me tips on how to be a wizard. Maybe it's because I read about it. Maybe because it's an easy class to play PvE-wise. Definetely not the squads I'm in. I've been in squads I had to lead the charge instead of the barb.


    Overall seem there's a generation playing who has trouble with authority and see suggestions as commands. I notice the more mature people take advice more seriously even if the f-ing word is involved.

    I won't mention long time players being asked to not do something in order to keep squad casualty-free. Oops, I mentioned!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    > A demon is driven by desire, pure desire, that cannot be stopped by reason or logic. - Mo Zun
    > Believing in demons doesn't mean believing in evil. Demons are not necessarily an evil thing. - Chin Wuming
  • veronicae
    veronicae Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I highly agree on the wording part. I highly despise being talked to in a rude or bossy way and will most likely ignore those doing so. Talk to me in a respectful way, including not treating me like I can't count to 3 or trying to order me around and I'll gladly listen to what you have to say.

    Also one should mention that those giving advice should always consider the situation first (not implying that you don't Column, I don't know you, but I have had this with other ppl so I'll mention it). Saying "Cleric buff" when the cleric is clearly busy otherwise atm is a good example. Take a look at the squad situation first, then ask, and if you ask, try to ask nicely. It's not too much time consuming to write a pls behind it to not have it look like an order but a request instead. As for buffs for example I'll always try for a "Name, could I get bm buff if you get a chance, pls?" etc. Ofc I understand the rushing squad phenomenon mentioned before too good.

    On another note, I personally perceive being addressed with my class as rude, don't know about others, but I have a name and will always think it more polite if you call me by that, if it's too long, go with a short nickname (e.g. in my case, calling me Anda is just fine) instead of saying "Cleric".

    Also what I personally found out when trying to give people advice and what works good for me is: pming. Addressing someone in squad chat is always a bit similar to calling someone out in front of the class/other ppl which will likely make them feel uncomfortably and often end in them feeling attacked or exposed. None likes that. I have made the experience if I pm ppl they are more likely to be grateful and listen to what I say. If I have the time I'll also start with a polite sentence or using words like "hun" and smileys to make them feel more comfortable and not as if called out on, looked down on as a noob who doesn't know their class or ordered around.

    Be aware that written words lack facial expressions and subject of voice, so it is much easier to misinterpret, especially if it is not your native language. Smileys can help alot with that and let's face it typing :) or ;) is only 2 keys more.
    sealightnewsig_zpsfd599c1f.png
  • Colum - Raging Tide
    Colum - Raging Tide Posts: 1,696 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I believe there is one thing to consider: the language and the wording used to give those advices.

    Usually in a squad people tend to be as quick as possible to suggest something. Usually it ends up going like "you should to this" or "you shold not do that". Most people I've met in game seem to read that as order and reject it imediately without even paying attention to the logic.

    I myself always try to be as simple as possible when teaching something so I go straight forward what I mean. Most of the time people want to finish an instance ASAP and don't want to stop to get advice.

    This is very true, sadly simple advice seems to cause a lot of understanding issues to some players, or even more ignorance. For example if I say "Could you IH stack me instead of CHB, this boss does not AOE" the cleric starts a QQ about how they have to CHB spam incase I lose my aggro to someone. This could cause a lot of unnecessary charm ticks or pot spamming at bosses like Genesiac Blink vile.
    I hear a lot of "I play for fun", but I must point out that the fun might be staying alive and enjoying a smooth run without death. I like when a run goes well, but if the one who plays for fun and don't take team work seriously is in then this attitude will ruin the fun for the others. I bet they don't think about it.

    An exemple. I've been on a BH79 with my lv86 cleric these days. There was a wizard. I have experience as wizard so I told him, and I quote: attack the magic mobs, not the archers. I had my reasons for this, but as the squad didn't wait much I had to skip the details. He immediately told me he had Stone Barrier and could handle them. But the detail I skipped was he as using only citrines and elemental ornaments (both for channeling)... Well, you get the picture. That wizard alone made the run very frustrating till about hands. From then on he started to attack magic mobs only and the rest of the run went smooth. He even started to wait after I said "if you wait a bit to attack you won't steal aggro so fast and will survive longer". Always nice to type and heal at same time. Maybe my "if you wait" was more polite for his eyes tha saying "wait before you attack". This is the wording I mentioned.

    The above is what I meant earlier: one ruining the fun for others. The barb got pissed the wizzy stole aggro from archers and got killed; the wizard got pissed I didnt heal his crystal toon against archers who killed him in between IH ticks; and the rest of members just waited. After the wizard got in sync the squad was great and the fun was plenty.

    Couple deaths here and there never really bothered me, but in your example it is indeed irritating. I'm glad the wizard you adviced actually listened to you instead of continuing with his old method. Wording things correctly doesnt always work.
    I don't try to be nice or bad when giving advice. I simply try to pass th message. Maybe sometimes I chose my words poorly because of the tiny time gap from skill to skill or because the squad is running against time.

    Friends will most likely always listen to advice from friends, but receiving advice from people one does not know might be the main problem regarding this issue. I recommend people listen to othes' advices. Maybe a highly experienced player is just playing a low level toon alongside you and your squad and they want to help you improve your skill. Give people a chance and don't take advice as offense.

    b:bye Hope I didnt typo too much.

    I've even had issues with some friends with this, I guess some of them are just too stubborn to take any advice.
    I don't mind listening to the 'advice' of others as long as they 'follow' certain criteria:

    1. Don't brush of everything I say like I have the IQ of a duck.

    I very much agree with this. It's even worse when they do this AND give the wrong advice for the situation.
    2. Don't come off pushy with your 'advice', if it seems like your being bossy, you'll likely get ignored/see defiance.

    This could be hard to avoid sometimes, especially in situations where you need the thing done now fast or a party wipe follows (for example not getting purify in time. I just go like "Purify person x" and hope I dont get ignored)
    3. Don't be a donkey's rear either. (Ties in with 2 I admit. :$) Though really if you come off insulting me there is no way I am going to listen to your advice. Stating facts is fine, but being pushy about it/repeating it in a way that comes off as if you know it all, again expect to see defiance/ignoring of a 'statement.'

    4. Don't treat me like I don't have a clue about the class I chose.

    Example of how to ask/'tell': "Throatcut has a better cancel rate than Knife Throw"

    Example of how NOT to ask/tell: "Moron, learn how to play your damn class, Throatcut has a better ****ing cancel rate than knife throw"


    Point is if your rude or off putting with your 'advice' I am a lot less receptive of it. (willing to guess a lot of people have a similar feeling as this.

    ---

    I am sure there is more, and I too had to learn at one time or another, and I listened to the advice that was given to me.

    Yeah I mostly try to make my advice sound like interesting piece of information or a suggestion. Sometimes if I notice the squad is clueless or if I know there is newbies in it, I suggest a plan on how to work on the bosses before we attempt them.
    -Meow-

    To OP: the responses like above quoted seem to be cropping up more and more on the forums now. Previously when a poster asked for things on the forum, they were kind. Even if they decided to do the opposite because they thought it was right. Which is fine, it's a game, once you get an understanding, best to try it out yourself. But sadly posters now a days refuse to read, listen, comprehend. They ask for things, and say i will do X. When you tell them x is not as good as Y for the following reasons. The flame war begins.

    Yes, I have unfortunately noticed this same thing. Gotta miss the ol' good forum days when RT trolled each server section and...
    As for finding such people, i only become bossy when i run with random people and sin's don't rib strike bosses when i am tanking and they can not tank. Where sins think their aps with g13~r9 3rd cast daggers is better suited than doing sub sea in an aoe situation.

    It reached a point, where i grew tired of asking people, now my hp is such i just my bm on macro. If someone steals agro from me and dies, so be it, i can't hold bosses like barbs b:dirty. I rely on dps to survive.

    I'm in agreement with this part. There's no reason why people wouldnt use their debuffs in the needed situations.
    When i go with friends, i often outline what i want from everyone. These days i prefer the clerics not to BB in delta 2~3 runs. Most have a fun time dd'ing. Some get offended. Some bb, because they are going afk. Everyone seems to have good enough hp and defense that a group heal or ih is enough.

    To be honest, I have the really bad habit of not even asking the squad should I BB delta or not. I take a look at their gears and examine who is going to have the most aggro. I'll keep an eye on squad's HP and give occasional heals, but I also take part in DDing.
    Unlike most people who have played this game as long as i have, i have 0 idea about what other classes do while playing. I always ask questions, and make me sound noob, but its fun to learn. One time during full delta a barb taught me how arma worked. We had gs, hf, sub sea combo with the arma. Until the last stage all waves were one shot. I was amazed that barbs are useful in delta. Most barbs run in, invoke and run back, they don't bother to agro.

    To get back on topic, if a person in squad asks, says, tells something, and you being squishy helps you survive, be thankful. If it does not help you survive, stick it to them b:pleased.

    I have very rarely come across anyone to tell me how to play my class. Maybe i find good people to run with.b:cute. That being said, i am one of the few bm who still uses mss and people are amazed at what the skill is b:surrender, because they have never seen it before (joys of being a cleric as a bm)

    To be honest I have the same thing. I dont remember the last time someone tried to give me any advice, and in many cases the given advice is from sage barbs who haven't played demon barbs and thus does not really fit in my gameplay OR I know the given advice already when I just say thanks but I'm aware of this.
    veronicae wrote: »
    I highly agree on the wording part. I highly despise being talked to in a rude or bossy way and will most likely ignore those doing so. Talk to me in a respectful way, including not treating me like I can't count to 3 or trying to order me around and I'll gladly listen to what you have to say.

    Also one should mention that those giving advice should always consider the situation first (not implying that you don't Column, I don't know you, but I have had this with other ppl so I'll mention it). Saying "Cleric buff" when the cleric is clearly busy otherwise atm is a good example. Take a look at the squad situation first, then ask, and if you ask, try to ask nicely. It's not too much time consuming to write a pls behind it to not have it look like an order but a request instead. As for buffs for example I'll always try for a "Name, could I get bm buff if you get a chance, pls?" etc. Ofc I understand the rushing squad phenomenon mentioned before too good.

    It's Colum, not Column. Colum is an Irish/Scottish name. xD anyway, back to the topic.

    This is a very good point. Everything is situational and each squad is different so the needs differ as well. This is one of the reasons I take a look at everyone's gear within the squad to find out a little about their possible damage output and tankiness. It is a learned habit from playing a barbarian and a cleric majority of the time.

    On another note, I personally perceive being addressed with my class as rude, don't know about others, but I have a name and will always think it more polite if you call me by that, if it's too long, go with a short nickname (e.g. in my case, calling me Anda is just fine) instead of saying "Cleric".

    I also prefer being called by a name or nickname rather than my class, of course it's understandable in squads of 10 or squads with many of the same class if people use the class instead of names.
    Also what I personally found out when trying to give people advice and what works good for me is: pming. Addressing someone in squad chat is always a bit similar to calling someone out in front of the class/other ppl which will likely make them feel uncomfortably and often end in them feeling attacked or exposed. None likes that. I have made the experience if I pm ppl they are more likely to be grateful and listen to what I say. If I have the time I'll also start with a polite sentence or using words like "hun" and smileys to make them feel more comfortable and not as if called out on, looked down on as a noob who doesn't know their class or ordered around.

    Be aware that written words lack facial expressions and subject of voice, so it is much easier to misinterpret, especially if it is not your native language. Smileys can help alot with that and let's face it typing :) or ;) is only 2 keys more.

    I tend to PM when I have time to do so, but if squad is in a rush I rather type in squad chat, or if my advice is something I think others should see as well. Usually if I type it out in squad chat I also try to make it sound neutral. However, for a blunt person like me coming out as polite may not always be one of my strongest sides.
    Leader of Cyanure on Valonsurma and a proud member of Vertu
    Demon Strength Barbarian 103/103/101

    Demon Pure Mag Cleric 102/102/101 | Demon 4 APS Assassin 102/102/101 | Demon Pure Mag Mystic 102/101/101 | Demon Pure Mag Psychic 100/100/93 | Demon 4 APS-Barbarian 100/100 | HA-venomancer 100 | DPH Assassin 100 | Pure Mag Wizard 100 | Demon Pure Mag Stormbringer 96 | Demon DPS Archer 94 | Sage Vit Barbarian 93 | Demon All-Path Blademaster 93 | Str Seeker 86 | Pure Mag Venomancer 81 | Pure Mag Wizard 81 | Pure Dex Duskblade 47
  • veronicae
    veronicae Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Sorry for misspelling your name Colum. And I agree to your points. I think it helps if we all keep in mind that it's always different personalities behind the characters. I have had my share of learning that some people are just very straight forward without any bad intentions. Still I am sometimes struggling not to take things to serious or get offended by a sentence too quickly. I have to keep reminding myself that just because someone says something short and "bossy" it isn't necessarily meant to be rude but could be laziness, lack of English capabilities, lack of time or just part of his character as you just said. Other way around too: people that tend to be very straight forward and short with words should try to keep in mind that they are easily mistaken as rude or bossy and cause hard feelings. If everyone just tries to keep in mind that we're all walking in different shoes it would make the gameplay easier for all of us.

    Adding to that a willingness to clear up misunderstandings and a readiness to apology if needed. As I see that lacking too often unfortunately. People sometimes act like urging an apology costs realife money, which I'll never understand...

    Also as I have seen you mention it in your other thread and highly agree: Personal mood. We are all allowed to just have a bad day. That influences our ingame communication as well as our play style. God knows how noobish I end up playing when having a bad day or just being tired b:chuckle
    sealightnewsig_zpsfd599c1f.png
  • ZentDreigon - Raging Tide
    ZentDreigon - Raging Tide Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Do you think the officer title can interfere with the advice giving acceptance? Oh, god, not the fancy wording, Zent!

    As officer I tend to be heard more seriously in faction, but I also noticed some squad situations changed. (Or I just got into better squads.) When in squad as guild officer the title itself might give you credibility. I feel that, especially when I got to instances with low level alts and am completely ignored. Maybe they see me low level, no faction, giving tips, and think "what does this noob know?". Of course it changes when I say I play a lv101 wizard. b:chuckle
    veronicae wrote: »
    different personalities behind the characters.

    And cultures.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    > A demon is driven by desire, pure desire, that cannot be stopped by reason or logic. - Mo Zun
    > Believing in demons doesn't mean believing in evil. Demons are not necessarily an evil thing. - Chin Wuming
  • Colum - Raging Tide
    Colum - Raging Tide Posts: 1,696 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    veronicae wrote: »
    Sorry for misspelling your name Colum. And I agree to your points. I think it helps if we all keep in mind that it's always different personalities behind the characters. I have had my share of learning that some people are just very straight forward without any bad intentions. Still I am sometimes struggling not to take things to serious or get offended by a sentence too quickly. I have to keep reminding myself that just because someone says something short and "bossy" it isn't necessarily meant to be rude but could be laziness, lack of English capabilities, lack of time or just part of his character as you just said. Other way around too: people that tend to be very straight forward and short with words should try to keep in mind that they are easily mistaken as rude or bossy and cause hard feelings. If everyone just tries to keep in mind that we're all walking in different shoes it would make the gameplay easier for all of us.

    Adding to that a willingness to clear up misunderstandings and a readiness to apology if needed. As I see that lacking too often unfortunately. People sometimes act like urging an apology costs realife money, which I'll never understand...

    Also as I have seen you mention it in your other thread and highly agree: Personal mood. We are all allowed to just have a bad day. That influences our ingame communication as well as our play style. God knows how noobish I end up playing when having a bad day or just being tired b:chuckle

    Yes indeed, being able to apology and admit your own mistakes is a good start when it comes to working together with squads. I personally do apologize if I **** up or cause a death to the squad (I have my "stupid idea" moments, just gotta try! though yes I warn beforehand...) and people tend to take it well. Sadly, most squads just like to blame it all on the tank or the cleric even when it isn't their fault.

    Heh, I admit to having a bad temper and quite blunt way of saying things.

    Do you think the officer title can interfere with the advice giving acceptance? Oh, god, not the fancy wording, Zent!

    As officer I tend to be heard more seriously in faction, but I also noticed some squad situations changed. (Or I just got into better squads.) When in squad as guild officer the title itself might give you credibility. I feel that, especially when I got to instances with low level alts and am completely ignored. Maybe they see me low level, no faction, giving tips, and think "what does this noob know?". Of course it changes when I say I play a lv101 wizard. b:chuckle



    And cultures.

    Yes to be honest I've noticed that as faction leader I gain more respect than when I'm on my alt toons. However, the position can also backfire you - if someone gets upset with you, they will accuse you of being incapable *insert officer rank here*.
    Leader of Cyanure on Valonsurma and a proud member of Vertu
    Demon Strength Barbarian 103/103/101

    Demon Pure Mag Cleric 102/102/101 | Demon 4 APS Assassin 102/102/101 | Demon Pure Mag Mystic 102/101/101 | Demon Pure Mag Psychic 100/100/93 | Demon 4 APS-Barbarian 100/100 | HA-venomancer 100 | DPH Assassin 100 | Pure Mag Wizard 100 | Demon Pure Mag Stormbringer 96 | Demon DPS Archer 94 | Sage Vit Barbarian 93 | Demon All-Path Blademaster 93 | Str Seeker 86 | Pure Mag Venomancer 81 | Pure Mag Wizard 81 | Pure Dex Duskblade 47
  • ovenusarmanio
    ovenusarmanio Posts: 6,695 Community Moderator
    edited July 2014
    I notice that I tend to get a better response when I say something along the lines of "I'm not trying to criticize you or say you're a bad whatever, I just wanted to be helpful," after whatever critique I needed to tell them. A lot of times they'll ignore me and then I'll say that and they reply "oh, I thought you were saying I was fail," even if I never use those words. A lot of players probably hear certain critiques a lot and are just too stubborn to admit that they might be doing something wrong and simply have a chip on their shoulder. So when they hear how they are fail yet again, it goes in one ear and out the other. I tend to break through sometimes with these folks by simply being patient with that and letting them know it's not a value judgement on them as a whole just some piece of advice I have or whatever. Often though, I don't mind doing that because I DON'T think they are a total moron. The people who are horrid and seem to fail at even running, I tend to not bother with.

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  • Evryn - Morai
    Evryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    veronicae wrote: »
    I highly agree on the wording part. I highly despise being talked to in a rude or bossy way and will most likely ignore those doing so. Talk to me in a respectful way, including not treating me like I can't count to 3 or trying to order me around and I'll gladly listen to what you have to say.

    Saying "Cleric buff" when the cleric is clearly busy otherwise atm is a good example. Take a look at the squad situation first, then ask, and if you ask, try to ask nicely.

    Better example, and one I sadly encounter too often. BH Lunar, me as a cler. Puller dies due to taking on a bit more then he can chew, but the mobs don't reset since BB is set and the other DDs are taking on the mobs.

    Puller: "plz res."
    Me: "Wait for mobs to be down." (Considering the rest of the party is more squishy then the puller, dropping BB at that point will likely wipe the squad).
    Puller (less then a minute later with half the mobs still attacking): "OMG res!" (sometimes followed by "noob cler").
    Me: "Will res after all mobs are down, please wait and pull a few less next time."
    I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.

    Ulsyr 103/103/104 BM. Working on the last R9 part (Axe).
    Khelvan 103/103/103 LA Cler. LA? LA. Deal with it.
    Evryn 103/102/101 Sagely Mystical Myst of Mystiness.
    Gromth 102/102/102 Sage Panda.
    StoneSnake - Snakeshop for everyone's common stones.
  • ZentDreigon - Raging Tide
    ZentDreigon - Raging Tide Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Better example, and one I sadly encounter too often. BH Lunar, me as a cler. Puller dies due to taking on a bit more then he can chew, but the mobs don't reset since BB is set and the other DDs are taking on the mobs.

    Puller: "plz res."
    Me: "Wait for mobs to be down." (Considering the rest of the party is more squishy then the puller, dropping BB at that point will likely wipe the squad).
    Puller (less then a minute later with half the mobs still attacking): "OMG res!" (sometimes followed by "noob cler").
    Me: "Will res after all mobs are down, please wait and pull a few less next time."

    My cleric got into that same kind of situation and the barb, who had lead, kicked me from squad while on BB. Before my timer ran out all five were down. b:laugh
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    > A demon is driven by desire, pure desire, that cannot be stopped by reason or logic. - Mo Zun
    > Believing in demons doesn't mean believing in evil. Demons are not necessarily an evil thing. - Chin Wuming
  • Evryn - Morai
    Evryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Poetic justice. b:chuckle

    But yes, you can encounter total egomaniacs in the game. Not so much of a problem if they know how to solo and are on a pure DD class (such as sin or archer who don't really need to consider other party members much so long as they can handle what aggro they draw). Issues arise when they suddenly feel entitled to the support of other classes when and where -they- want them to be, rather then where and when that support is actually available. I've often heared my cleric is slow. I'm moving at 5.2m/s (0.5 faster then most clers, got speed boots and speed gloves). After 2 holy paths, my genie is spent. If people want or need more then that, then yea, too bad, not gonna happen.

    Bottom line: If you -need- other players in your tactic, know their limitations or expect failure. Don't assume, ask.
    I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.

    Ulsyr 103/103/104 BM. Working on the last R9 part (Axe).
    Khelvan 103/103/103 LA Cler. LA? LA. Deal with it.
    Evryn 103/102/101 Sagely Mystical Myst of Mystiness.
    Gromth 102/102/102 Sage Panda.
    StoneSnake - Snakeshop for everyone's common stones.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Interesting topic.

    I've come across situations like these a lot of times, especially when it comes to Clerics. I don't know why but Clerics seem to be easily triggered by advice and throw tantrums over "don't tell me how to play my class" or "I refuse to go unless we have a real tank (barb)".

    I don't know how people see me on the forums, maybe sometimes I sound like an "elitist" because I tend to be straight forward without "fluffing" my posts too much, but I genuinely just like giving advice or sharing my knowledge. I'm open for discussions on things and I'm aware there are things I don't know or could be mistaken about.

    When it comes to in-game stuff, I tend to be really friendly to people and almost always PM them. I rarely say something in squad chat, unless it's a bunch of familiar people so I know they'll be fine with me telling them this and that.

    Other than that, there's nothing else I can do if they just refuse to listen. I can understand some people not being able to cope with straight-forwardness. Same goes with people sounding like they are giving out orders when they are simply trying to quickly give directions, especially in a tight spot. It's understandable not wanting to accept advice from people that are just plain rude to you but even then, I think you should still consider their words because..who knows..maybe you'll actually find something you didn't know.

    ...but yeah. I don't know what to say. A lot of people seem to refuse advice and suggestions and often slap the "don't tell me how to play my class" and "I've played this class for years and I know how to play" and the "I just play for fun" but there is a limit to that fun... you shouldn't **** your squad over.

    And of course then there's that people that somehow expect the others to do things without analysing the situation or understanding the situation they are in. If you've talked to them nicely and they refuse to listen, nothing you can do about that.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
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  • anaovt1
    anaovt1 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Yeah, seems nowadays people just don't want to listen, sadly.

    When I give advice, I tend to pm it, since people follow advice more often that way. Also, I try to give a reason, I don't just say, for example (I have to say this way too often) "Don't use befuddling creeper" to a mystic, I say, "Don't use creeper, my/the barb's/the veno's debuffs are stronger". Reason goes a long way. If you don't have time to type out a reason in the moment, add one when you have time, such as while running. There's actually been studies done on how giving a reason makes people more likely to listen to you, even if that reason makes no sense (these are verbal, but if the reason makes sense, written works too).

    I agree with some of Andalee's points, I also hate being called 'cleric'. Unless there's a few clerics in squad and you just want a response from any of them, call me by my name. It's not that hard.

    Also, "please" and "thank you" (or even ty) go a loooong way. "Please buff me" will get you free buffs from me even if you just pm in arch or something, as long as I'm not in a hurry. "buffs" will get you nothing, even in squad, until I have time. Luckily I haven't run into people as rude as the situation Evryn described, if they die and I'm in BB they wait patiently, or at least they do after I say in a minute.

    As for how I receive advice, I know how to play my class pretty well, so if someone says something I know already, I say "I know, ty". Short but not rude, at least I don't intend to be. If it's something I don't know, I try it, and if it is indeed better, awesome. If not, I'll go back to my ways. I've gotten people giving me advice in super rude ways, even friends. One was soloing a boss for me while I was healing her, and I started DDing, and she just yelled at me, "Don't DD your channeling reduction isn't high enough". And I was like... I can still keep you healed and throw in a cyclone every now and then, it's not a problem. She just kept raging. Same friend, when running a bh59 for me the first time I lvld, kept yelling at me not to heal her. It's not like I was taking agro, and her charm was almost ticking. Idk why she didn't want me to save her some pots/charm. She just kept yelling at me not to heal. And at that point I had a TT60 mag sword, so not like me DDing would make things go any faster... She would also never give a reason when I asked why. Just repeat the 'advice'. So I didn't listen.

    Also, people who won't listen to advice from somebody who isn't their class because "you don't know hwo to play this class, wahwahwah"... How do you know that I don't play that class?

    TL;DR: Please, ty, and reasons.
    Camlyra-Raging Tides. Since the avatar is broken.

    Cleric 103/103/102
    Seeker 102/102/101
    Wizard 101/101/101
    Psychic 102/99
  • AdagioSonata - Heavens Tear
    AdagioSonata - Heavens Tear Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Ahh, a topic I’m very familiar with. Interestingly enough, not because I was the one being yelled at or being treated like I didn’t know my class, but mainly from watching my poor friends or others in squad being treated as such.

    I have to say, when it comes to an instance I’ve never been in before and I don’t know what to do in it, I truly don’t mind being told what to do; I actually highly encourage it. I don’t see it as being bossy or trying to tell me how to play my class. To me, I had already asked if the squad could tell me what to do and when they tell me to use a specific skill during a certain time or whichever, I do so without question. After all, if they know what they’re doing and you don’t, it’s ok to seek advice or help, especially if you want the squad to survive o.o.

    But yeah, I mainly noticed most of those who have played or have a main as a cleric step forward to bring up the messed up issue of clerics being treated like they don’t know what the heck they’re doing. True, you might have some who don’t want to be told what to do or they simply don’t want to listen to what you have to say (let’s face it, sometimes it isn’t the “language barrier” issue but more so “blockhead barrier” issue), but then there are those who do listen and take advice without having a “don’t tell me what to do” lecture after being given said advice. For example, I’ve been given plenty of advice on my main, who’s an archer, and my cleric, who is my second main. I’m actually quite thankful for the advice I was given because on archer it made me a stronger DD and tank (because I’m used to doing things on my own if I want it done, I learned how to tank at an early level and usually did so with my cleric friend or if I could handle it myself I soloed without heals) and a few friends gave me advice on what to do on cleric, including some pk advice ;). So I’m no stranger to advice and I happily accept what is given me. To be honest, I didn’t have the problem of people bossing me around much, aside from the “cleric buff” and “cleric heal” thing which does annoy me when they don’t say my name; giving me a nickname or shortening my name is fine, just please don’t call me by my class like I’m nameless, especially when there’s more than one of the same class in squad-just makes it more confusing and you can’t expect either one to know who you’re addressing if you haven’t specified and both are busy or whichever. In relation to the bossing thing, I’ve only had one instance of that, but the barb wasn’t being mean about it. He simply told me to do something and before he even was able to type it, I had already done it and he said “Oh, never mind”. Yeah, I know my class and what needs to be done XD, especially in an instance or situation I’ve been in before and know what to do.

    I guess you can also call me one of those quiet types in squad unless I want to be silly and make people laugh. But no, I don’t like running off and getting others killed. If I’m about to do something stupid, I usually just warn people ahead of time and usually the whole squad’s not there yet and I’m just trying to test some skills out and my survivability. And if I die, it’s on my head; I blame no one for my random suicidal tendencies lol. However, when the squad is there and we’re ready to work on the instance, of course I’m serious and as a healing class, mystic or cleric or even my psychic, or even on my main or another DD class, I make sure to watch out for everyone. I multitask pretty well so I’ll end up healing, killing, or extra buffing where I see someone needs it and most appreciate it. Interestingly enough I’ve been complimented on how I heal and survive well when most might die, regardless of which class I’m playing. But I can’t take all the credit; I had awesome people during the years I’ve been playing giving me great advice without being bossy about it, mixed in with me just being a gamer. I love games and of course I like playing characters so I can learn their class better. I’m not perfect when I start them out and usually I do better by the second or third character of that class, but the further I go along the better I get and most can’t deny that when they see my characters in action, even if I’m a squishy fool XD (at least I’m squishy with style lol)
    And to add to my already long post, Colum definitely has a good point about tank varieties. Most of us know this, but some really don’t or don’t care to know that basically anyone can be a tank with the right skills and knowing what you’re doing. I have seen every class tank something at one point, with or without heals depending on the situation. To me, every class is important because they bring their skills to the plate and make a great combo when working with their squad members. No one has a little part in squad and I respect all regardless. And I guess this goes back to my earlier mentioning of how I’ve seen friends attacked on their characters due to those who felt the need to be bossy on who should do what. Even though it didn’t happen to me per se, it was still annoying because no the people talking to my friends were not being nice and giving helpful advice. They were demands, orders, and insults when not done right to the tee how they wanted it, regardless if they were right or not. (example close along the lines of what Evryn pointed out someone did to his cleric in lunar; my friend was being yelled at to heal the person while he was trying to keep the tank alive, and yes the person yelling had done something stupid and got themselves killed. I love how they blamed my friend for their idiocy >.<)

    I guess in conclusion to my post is teamwork is a must, not an option if you want a good squad run and to have fun in it. No one class is better than the others; there’s a reason there’s more than one class in the first place. Advice can be given and people just need to be patient in giving it and/or accepting it while taking into consideration that some people might know their class and maybe can use your advice or suggestion, and if they don’t well their loss or just don’t worry about it because they might already know or don’t need it. And overall is for people to have fun; it really is a game. Games are supposed to be fun, not a job or chore and some need to lighten up and stop acting like everything they say and do is absolute, and others need to stop being offended when they’re told something; not everything said to them is an insult waiting to happen lol.
  • Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721
    edited July 2014
    Kitty's hardly ever told what to do as she's usually already doing the best possible for squad for knowing all classes and their capabilities well. When Kitty's told some advice on how to improve, Kitty's calculated if it's worth it and if it was, Kitty's included it into her gameplay.

    Kitty's noticed this "ppl not listening" all too well too. When Kitty sees someone playing with about 10% of their potential, Kitty kindly tells what they're doing wrong. If Kitty notices them keeping on their bad habit, Kitty either tells them to stop with their bad habit as it's bad for whole squad. If they still continue, Kitty forces them to RQ squad. Sometimes Kitty's being listened, sometimes not. Kitty's noticed seekers are the most ignorant class about advices.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Final ragequit on 21/02/2014 'cause ARC. Back on 15/04/2014, RL was bored.
    Ten Paths of Kittyness(old mains when deleted): Kittysama 100(100) Sage HA-Venomancer |Aivina 100(101) Sage (ex-Zerk) Str. Seeker | Kittytart 90(101) Demon All path Zerk BM | KittyFishie 92(101) Demon APS/DPH Zerk Assassin | Haroin 100(100) Demon Vit. Zerk Barbarian | Elfborn 82(100) Demon Cleric | Pessimiste 85(100) Sage Wizard | PalavaEnkeli 87(100) Demon Fist/APS-Archer | VerenVanki 85(100) Demon Mystic | MerenPeto 85(100) Sage Psychic
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  • catgirl33
    catgirl33 Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Better example, and one I sadly encounter too often. BH Lunar, me as a cler. Puller dies due to taking on a bit more then he can chew, but the mobs don't reset since BB is set and the other DDs are taking on the mobs.

    Puller: "plz res."
    Me: "Wait for mobs to be down." (Considering the rest of the party is more squishy then the puller, dropping BB at that point will likely wipe the squad).
    Puller (less then a minute later with half the mobs still attacking): "OMG res!" (sometimes followed by "noob cler").
    Me: "Will res after all mobs are down, please wait and pull a few less next time."

    I've been into a similar situation to your. This sin in my Fsp squad was eager for buffs. As soon as he entered the instance, he said "cleric, buff me". I selected him, tried buff him with individual buffs. But my toon was running backward, when i tried to buff him. So i figured he was at the entrance point, and i was on the middle/side platform before the 1st boss. So i was thinking like forget it, i'll buff everyone before we fight the 2nd/water boss like i usually do. I didn't say anything because i was busy. After we killed the first boss. i rushed through waterway to clear the mobs first, this is what i always do after killing the 1st boss. When i was swimming in water on the way to the water boss, he said "i hate to repeat myself when i ask cleric for buffs". He was so rude, and made me mad, so i quickly said back to him "you can leave if you want, nobody is forcing you to stay"b:angry. Then he said back " i didn't mean to make a cleric mad" and he went silent. As the run continued, i buffed everyone before we fought the water boss like i always do. In the middle of the fight on the water boss, i felt like i was wrong too for saying "you can leave too if you want, nobody is focusing you to stay". Then i apologized as soon as the water boss is dead, i said "sorry". i wanted to continue and add why i usually ignore buffing before the water boss. But he quickly replied "what, are you going kicking me now?". I answered him "nobody is going to kick you". I said to myself this sin is unsavable. I was like forget it, i don't want to argue with this silly head, i'll just take it as it's my fault because i understand how most of the other squads work. I can't blame him for being in my squad when i do it totally in a different way then other does. And i told him "sorry, i wasn't paying attention". He didn't say anything back. He didn't seem too happy about me. He remained silent since then throughout the whole run. He left as soon as the run is done. Everything we said was on squad chat, the whole squad saw our conversation and everyone was silent. Probably because some of squadmates are the ones i usually run fsp with, and they don't care anything else beside a quick run and that's what it's exactly offered in my squad, a quick run. No one had ever really complained to me beside this sin, his attitude got into my nerve.

    My reason, i'm usually the early birdie to enter the instance, and i'll be there to tank/dd on the 1st boss. The 1st boss aoe barely scratch, you don't need defensive buffs for the 1st boss. Because this boss should totally represent no threat to the persons that aren't tanking and he just made a fuss out of nothing.



    Back to OP topic: So far, I've received some gear recommendations. I'm a R9rr cleric and using a +11 Moon's Embrace. Most people suggested that i should use a physical def ring, and i usually gave them Reply C. I think I know how to play my class ty. I know the fact that most of the well-known top clerics use Star's Destiny as it provides a lot of physical defense. I'm not going to argue with that as all the odds are against me. b:shockedb:shutup I just don't like to follow the norm of cleric build. I like to explore my build and find which is suitable for my play style. i received a lot of criticisms from outsiders like "you don't know what you're doing" and etc.b:sad Like there was one occurrence in my fsp squad again, a very well-geared g16 seeker demanded that i should use a physical ring. Before the run had started, she asked who's going to tank. i said that i will. Then she examined my gear, she saw that i'm not using a physical def ring. She questioned "why aren't you using a physical ring?". I questioned back "what's wrong?" She answered "you're not supposed to use a magic ring, cleric needs a physical ring". I told her that i'm fine with the magic ring. She insisted that i should use a physical ring. She said she has never seen me before and called me probably a nab cash shopper cleric as she left the squad.

    And thank you to all those individuals who gave me some great advice in game and guide me through things that i'm not familiar with.b:pleased
    -Tideswell-
    ~Yuuniee (Cleric)
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  • ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear
    ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Face it, after 6 years the population of this game has boiled off all the occasional gamers, and the mildly committed, and those who wanted to play without investing real coin or 14 hours a day. What's left are the hard-core, "I'm not leaving, I have too much time/coin/life invested in this game" OCD maniacs. Of *course* they are all cranky - they all have 10 alts and know how to play every last class, twice over.

    It's a wonder we haven't all stabbed each other in an alley someplace.

    OT: W3 squad, puller bundles all the mobs together, we all start wailing on them, R9 archer throws knockback repeatedly, as soon as it recycles. Squad is almost all melee, makes BM and me run like idiots trying to chase the mobs.

    I throw one of these b:angry in squad chat, and archer responds "WTF is your problem L0L?"

    I ask him to stop throwing all the mobs all over, us melee are being run ragged. Archer responds "I'm hitting all these mobs harder than any of the rest of you, I'm doing what I please!"

    My response was "Let me know when you're ready to solo this, so I can sit on my *** and watch instead."

    Archer responds "Maybe you should, then!"

    "Enjoy your BH" and I drop squad. WTF is the matter with people?

    Everyone plays this game as if it's single player, and we're all NPCs to be abused. There's not much entertainment left in this game, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna run with jackholes like that.

    \need a bigger block list
  • Colum - Raging Tide
    Colum - Raging Tide Posts: 1,696 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The mystic's befuddling creeper example brought one player in my mind on RT... they KNOW that the creeper will overwrite my devour, cleric's seals, veno's ironwood/redstone, GS and so on... However, they informed me, "I do it just to **** people off." b:surrender Makes me wonder do these kind of people get some sort of sick satisfaction from annoying others.

    Thank you everyone for your input in this thread, there's a lot of good points. I'm a strong believer of doing what is best for the squad as it makes everyone's time a little bit easier. Of course there's special occasions when I want to try fun things in a faction squad. That is, however, something you should avoid in random squads unless everyone feel like fooling around.

    Nowadays I've got quite jumpy on my barbarian and cleric/mystic or any other toon I'm tanking an instance on. I might drop the squad if I repeatedly have to ask for a certain thing and do not receive it, for example clerics not IHing me which causes me usually massive usage of pots/apoth/genie depending on class, and sometimes charm ticks if I happen to have one on. On my cleric I absolutely hate it when my squad feels the need to rush forward before half of the people are even there, then blame my cleric for not healing and them dying because they did not aggro the mobs properly etc.
    Leader of Cyanure on Valonsurma and a proud member of Vertu
    Demon Strength Barbarian 103/103/101

    Demon Pure Mag Cleric 102/102/101 | Demon 4 APS Assassin 102/102/101 | Demon Pure Mag Mystic 102/101/101 | Demon Pure Mag Psychic 100/100/93 | Demon 4 APS-Barbarian 100/100 | HA-venomancer 100 | DPH Assassin 100 | Pure Mag Wizard 100 | Demon Pure Mag Stormbringer 96 | Demon DPS Archer 94 | Sage Vit Barbarian 93 | Demon All-Path Blademaster 93 | Str Seeker 86 | Pure Mag Venomancer 81 | Pure Mag Wizard 81 | Pure Dex Duskblade 47
  • anaovt1
    anaovt1 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The mystic's befuddling creeper example brought one player in my mind on RT... they KNOW that the creeper will overwrite my devour, cleric's seals, veno's ironwood/redstone, GS and so on... However, they informed me, "I do it just to **** people off." b:surrender Makes me wonder do these kind of people get some sort of sick satisfaction from annoying others.

    Please pm me the name of this mystic so I never squad with them... If you're ok doing that of course.

    Nowadays I've got quite jumpy on my barbarian and cleric/mystic or any other toon I'm tanking an instance on. I might drop the squad if I repeatedly have to ask for a certain thing and do not receive it, for example clerics not IHing me which causes me usually massive usage of pots/apoth/genie depending on class, and sometimes charm ticks if I happen to have one on. On my cleric I absolutely hate it when my squad feels the need to rush forward before half of the people are even there, then blame my cleric for not healing and them dying because they did not aggro the mobs properly etc.

    As cleric, what annoys me is when I'm trying to IH someone and they run ahead when they can see me casting and agro one group, then come back for IH and make me heal agro that group. I try to interrupt my IH when I see someone start running, but sometimes the esc key just doesn't react fast enough.
    Camlyra-Raging Tides. Since the avatar is broken.

    Cleric 103/103/102
    Seeker 102/102/101
    Wizard 101/101/101
    Psychic 102/99
  • ZentDreigon - Raging Tide
    ZentDreigon - Raging Tide Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Of course there's special occasions when I want to try fun things in a faction squad. That is, however, something you should avoid in random squads unless everyone feel like fooling around.

    Leeroy? b:laugh Yes, I remember.


    anaovt1 wrote: »
    As cleric, what annoys me is when I'm trying to IH someone and they run ahead when they can see me casting and agro one group, then come back for IH and make me heal agro that group. I try to interrupt my IH when I see someone start running, but sometimes the esc key just doesn't react fast enough.

    If the speedy guy has that pattern you can use Wings of Protection (if they have good HP). I do it and it's awesome. What I try to do before that is telling them to wait a bit and say "go" when I stop stacking. If the player is good they will run when you stop casting and understand the implied "go".
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    > A demon is driven by desire, pure desire, that cannot be stopped by reason or logic. - Mo Zun
    > Believing in demons doesn't mean believing in evil. Demons are not necessarily an evil thing. - Chin Wuming
  • anaovt1
    anaovt1 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    If the speedy guy has that pattern you can use Wings of Protection (if they have good HP). I do it and it's awesome. What I try to do before that is telling them to wait a bit and say "go" when I stop stacking. If the player is good they will run when you stop casting and understand the implied "go".

    Yeah, I do that too. Those that just rush ahead don't annoy me as much as those that rush ahead and then come back for some stacks after agroing some mobs. Nowadays a lot of pullers rush ahead because they don't need IH because they'll just spam pots and don't realize that IH would save them some pots...
    Camlyra-Raging Tides. Since the avatar is broken.

    Cleric 103/103/102
    Seeker 102/102/101
    Wizard 101/101/101
    Psychic 102/99
  • SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear
    SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear Posts: 703 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The moral of this thread is:

    If your in my squad you better damn i repeat you better damn follow my orders or else.
  • Alphaben - Raging Tide
    Alphaben - Raging Tide Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Here's how I prioritize in my squads (as seeker):


    Try to save the healer if need be, if the healer goes down things get difficult

    Try to stay near healer if possible, or atleast in range of buffs (unless it's a certain instance like EU)

    Make sure everyone has either attk or def buffs

    Transposition anyone who gets stuck somewhere so they don't have to tele out (like the trench in FS first room)

    Debuff the boss after agro is locked on someone else (preferably on the tank)

    If tank goes down for whatever reason, Alphamale the boss/mobs and run them away from healer so they can res tank and anyone else who needs

    If someone doesn't listen or decides to try to solo when they really shouldn't, let the healer decide whether to let them live b:laugh

    If all goes right, dust that boss with attacks!

    Say everyone's awesome after all the bosses are dead


    So sort of defensive/sacrificial seeker in squads
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Colum - Raging Tide
    Colum - Raging Tide Posts: 1,696 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The moral of this thread is:

    If your in my squad you better damn i repeat you better damn follow my orders or else.

    Not sure if trolling or cynical. b:avoid
    Leader of Cyanure on Valonsurma and a proud member of Vertu
    Demon Strength Barbarian 103/103/101

    Demon Pure Mag Cleric 102/102/101 | Demon 4 APS Assassin 102/102/101 | Demon Pure Mag Mystic 102/101/101 | Demon Pure Mag Psychic 100/100/93 | Demon 4 APS-Barbarian 100/100 | HA-venomancer 100 | DPH Assassin 100 | Pure Mag Wizard 100 | Demon Pure Mag Stormbringer 96 | Demon DPS Archer 94 | Sage Vit Barbarian 93 | Demon All-Path Blademaster 93 | Str Seeker 86 | Pure Mag Venomancer 81 | Pure Mag Wizard 81 | Pure Dex Duskblade 47
  • Liveena - Heavens Tear
    Liveena - Heavens Tear Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    People who refuse to be team player in squad? What about people with multiple alts, and while one of his alt is in EU waiting for gem run, he was playing another alt to the point squad leader need to wc to get him back to his EU alt.

    What about those alt in bh squad that was set using auto-culti instead of actually playing as squad member b:angry

    I also have a bad experience in WS spawn squad in where the squad do their port count down in vent/teamspeak leaving me clueless, and they never answered any thing in squad chat which makes me think either they are all english illiterate. b:surrender
    Heaven Tear

    Liveena 102/102/102 Demon Cleric
    Milfeena 103/102 Demon BM
    Silpheena 104/103/102 Sage R9S3 Seeker
    Cieleena 101/101/101 Sage Stormbringer
  • Selbronne - Heavens Tear
    Selbronne - Heavens Tear Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    OK. i'm a sin who lvled myself threw doing quests, grinding then bh29>39>51>59>69>79>89>yay 100. well at about lvl 75 i started trying ff with freinds i made in game. I wasn't rushing to much to lvl up since i always followed the idea: if i don't have the money for the gear, there is no reason for me to lvl up. Well i still renember good grinding in cave of sadistic glee at lvl 60+, doing tideborn quest etc. etc. whenever i squaded with someone good at playing their class i added them to my fl. oh and i started doing cube at like lvl 70 for money(i did not always get to room 50, i had no page there, i just tried to sell bully/robers for money)

    What i'd advice that is good to learn about my class what most ppl forget/don't know is:
    1. Learn how to spark resist on the pq 1 boss. (lvl 60-80, use double spark to resist the debuff)
    2. Learn how to interupt boss skill. (hmm the best boss for that is wurlord in TT, it might be painfull tho at start)
    3. In early FF squads u learn how u should use the aoe, how to put the CoD on while aoeing. At that time aslo ur aps goes higher and higer(lvls80-90 more -int gear on ya)
    4. Then at lvl 100+ use the points above to polish ur skills learned during geting to lvl 100. (by then u should know which buff use where - tidal/focus, to protect cleric from death, lots of stuff u should learn while geting to lvl 100 can't type all of it here cause it's too much of it).

    I'm not saying all the ppl are like this, i'm just startign with bad example.

    So first about W3.
    When i see sins in w3 that:
    -don't use their aoes, just spark and aps kill mobs.
    -use subsea>then rift>then aps mobs(little better but still not enough)
    -use same scenario as above with CoD on(almost perfect)
    but what sins should do there is: 3-spark>inner+subsea+rift, repeat rift after 8 sec and use toxic between rifts if they have it

    with all of those i can't blame ppl saying to sins: hey, ur doing it wrong use ur CoD(sometimes sins put on CoD and continue to aps mobs with it)

    about archers using their knockback skills a lot... yea it's anoying but if they have like twice mine dmg there or more(r9s3 +12 with maxed cards or sth like this kind of gear) idm... stil lwhould prefer them to barage but whateva

    About the fsp.
    Well squad is already on first boss and i get to him(i'm assuming boss got interupted at start and didn't buff himself) i'd prioretize geting cleric buff(if i'd be squishy enough to die on him) and kill him in like 1 spark. Definitly i'd run to the squad then ask for cler buff(and other buffs too) if the way was cleared.

    I had situation like this in fsp: most of the squad is waiting at 2nd boss, few more ppl got there and asked for rebuff>everybody started buffing, veno was standing. after few sec i asked for bramble, then finaly got it. From other bad things that happens to me in fsp is:
    bm start boss with hf, so i stack subsea to it alongside with mire(ic veno amping too, all of the squad sparked before we thrown the debuffs). hf is gone debuffs are gone, veno does the purge and boss is basicly at full hp cause fo the heal/buffs on themselfs. Another thign is when there are 2 other sins, 2 bms and barb in squad, and 4th boss whould heal itself if i whouldn't interupt him(cause am only one interupting!!!!!). Anoying thing is aslo when ppl rush into mobs before last boss in fsp, instead of waiting for veno to nova them, or bm to jump in and aoe stun.

    Nowadays i can see tons of ppl with like 5 toons - all badly geared/played. Why not make 1 toon and just focus on it.

    I'm not saying that i know every class in pwi best cause i don't but i know enough basic stuff about every class to see if they are doing good or bad. (for example: archers that dosen't do BV when no bm in squad; psys not using sage buble in AEU on chigo after whole squad got debuff and wondring later why they died).

    I'd say the reason ppl don't listen is that they think u consider them fail by giving them advice.
    Aslo the atidiute of the 90% of pwi players in the instance they are new to:
    -"i'm new to instance, pls teach me">(i say)"go read the guide on pwi forum">"aww i don't like forum">"then wach the video">"don't have time jsut teach me" (and after that they still don't do what they are told)
    is not helping learning new stuff/how u are suposed to play ur class/what u are suposed to do here and there.

    oh about spwan ws... ye am glad i got good stack of badges/molds long ago and if i go ws it's jsut for fun/money/essences/emblems/to help/to get round 1k badges(missing like 150 atm, value changes)

    i might got a little off topic but oh well
    the only solution i have is trying to squad with ppl u know(and they are good) and avoid ppl that are bad. Ussualy if u give advice in squad of the good ppl to someone, they will listen and adjust to it.

    Still i always try to be nice to ppl even if they fail.

    oh and sry for my english b:chuckle
  • SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver
    SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,225 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Ff.
    Better example, and one I sadly encounter too often. BH Lunar, me as a cler. Puller dies due to taking on a bit more then he can chew, but the mobs don't reset since BB is set and the other DDs are taking on the mobs.

    Puller: "plz res."
    Me: "Wait for mobs to be down." (Considering the rest of the party is more squishy then the puller, dropping BB at that point will likely wipe the squad).
    Puller (less then a minute later with half the mobs still attacking): "OMG res!" (sometimes followed by "noob cler").
    Me: "Will res after all mobs are down, please wait and pull a few less next time."

    Oh gosh. I get this often too.

    Not sure how the pullers want us to rez with BB up and 40 mobs attacking, but somehow they all have that mindset that we can.

    Another one: Fps run. I'm the only cleric. High damage squad with a lot of sins.

    Me: **Dies.**
    Sin 1: Heal!!!
    Me: I'm dead. -__-
    Sin 2: Heal d***it.
    Sin3: Heal. Noob cleric.
    Me: I can't heal you if I'm dead.
    Boss: **Dies.**
    Sin 1: Noob cleric. Why you no heal.
    Me: look at your life bars. I'm nowhere near you. Healing you when I'm dead and running back is an impossibility. Moreso, the mobs from water boss aren't making my return easier, as I'm constantly frozen.

    Sins: Apologize as they aren't used to viewing life bars.

    We get to toad....

    Someone takes aggro that wasn't supposed to...

    Axes Force....

    Me and others die.

    Sin 1: Heal!!!
    Me: Ummm....I'm dead. So is half the squad.
    Sin 2: Omg purify!!!
    Me: -__-
    Sin 3: heal me!!!
    Sin 1: **dies** pops up next to me. Sees me there waiting for their deaths. **Apologizes**
    Sin 2: Why won't you purify!!! **Dies.** Sees me there waiting too. **Apologizes.**
    Sin3: heal. We need a new cleric. You won't heal!!! **Dies.**
    Me: You all need to pay attention to life bars. Twice this run, I was one of the first to die. NO CLERIC, EVEN THE BEST AMONGST US can heal when dead. I've said so repeatedly in chat that I was dead, yet no one listened. If you wish for another cleric, then so be it. But I can heal this instance. I've done so many times over. Help me to stay alive, and I'll help you stay alive as well.
    I use absolutely no speed skills as I slowly trek and lecture my way back to toad....and I rebuff there. Ask them to turn toad...ask if squad is set to free....its not. Ask who's on axes...the whole 9 yards.

    We get to succubus...

    Disperse: someone runs next to me.

    Heal!!
    Me: I'm dead.

    Heal plz. (They see that I'm dead.) Oh, okay. Sorry.

    We get to 5 kings....

    BB is set up. High Kings do random buff and aoe...wiping a ton of us.

    Seren. BB please.
    Me: I did. A bunch of us are dead. Making our way back.
    Other teammate: yeah, they do that sometimes. Hurts like hell.

    I stayed with this squad because time was running out, and I wanted my coins before the instance reset for the day. Your story reminded me of this run.


    _______________________________________________

    For the original post, Iknow what you mean.

    My tactics for gear/skill advice....

    I ask if they mind me offering some advice. I do this in whisper to not cause embarrassment, and by asking this, they're less likely to be defiant.

    I inform them that I'm not trying to tell them how to play their class, but **insert said advice....and reason given for it.**

    Necklace and belt pieces are the usual ones, due to -chan on mages, and pdef on meleers....or evasion on either one.

    I respect their opinion, and tell them it might be wise to have another one they can switch to.

    By asking if I can give advice, i reduce defiance, the odds of being ignored, the responses of whatever....and a lot of stubbornness. Same for speaking in whisper.

    Often, the only thing the squad might know is that I said: "Sec please." And "Ok. I'm back."...since I do that when I really afk too. No one is the wiser.

    Some people don't care or want to learn...but for those that do, that tactic helps. Usually they try to friend request me afterwards. Just use good tonage and word usage so it doesn't seem like you're trying to be pushy or tell them how to play...but rather are trying to help them...and you'll see minimal issues.

    There are times when I might BB in a situation where I could easily IH because I'm actually advising someone on something...and by being in BB, I can do so freely. :-)

    Just my personal tactic for it.
    "Male Player using female toon. Please don't flirt with me."

    Need to see the cleric guide for questions, comments, or concerns? Just copy and paste the link.
    "http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1246011&quot;

    (Ignore the quotation marks. URL isn't allowed, so I had to do it that way.)
  • anaovt1
    anaovt1 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    People who refuse to be team player in squad? What about people with multiple alts, and while one of his alt is in EU waiting for gem run, he was playing another alt to the point squad leader need to wc to get him back to his EU alt.

    What about those alt in bh squad that was set using auto-culti instead of actually playing as squad member b:angry

    I hate it when people don't pull their weight in a squad. I don't tolerate freeloaders

    If I notice someone isn't attacking in a squad, has their char on follow (usually on me), or just isn't moving at all, here's how I deal with it:

    1. Check if they mentioned going afk. If they did, let it slide and wait for them to come back
    2. If they didn't, whisper them, asking them to please attack. If no response after this, written or action,
    3. Ask in squad chat if it's someone's alt or if anyone knows them.
    4. If they still don't respond in any way, kick.

    This process usually takes 4-5 minutes, so if they're on another window, they really should be checking.

    If anyone in EU isn't there when I get to their mirror and don't respond to anything within 2-3 minutes, I consider that run a fail, kick them, and start over. Being somewhere else and not checking in, even when waiting in EU, is unacceptable.
    Camlyra-Raging Tides. Since the avatar is broken.

    Cleric 103/103/102
    Seeker 102/102/101
    Wizard 101/101/101
    Psychic 102/99