Are wizards dying out on your server?

Burnout - Harshlands
Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
edited July 2014 in Wizard
On HL during tiger event there's a grand total of three wizzies who even participate, compared to 11-20 of every other class (yes even 11+ mystics). There's two "semi-endgame" geared wizzies on our server...

Compared to 6-7+ geared psychics,
6-7+ geared clerics
5+ geared barbs
4+ geared mystics
5+ geared seekers
8+ geared archers...

Among those I've seen who pvp regularly...
Post edited by Burnout - Harshlands on
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Comments

  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Nah. There's a good number of mages on this server that you can consider end-game enough.

    Unless you mean Adroit-like completely end-game...but there's only like four archers, two or three barbs, and one BM that would qualify for that.
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  • Zoldi - Morai
    Zoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I don't think tigers event is a good way to judge that anyway.
    On Morai server very few R9rr people seems to still do that event (regardless of the class). Nation Wars might be better but this is most difficult to count the number of attending people by class
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  • SarraLost - Sanctuary
    SarraLost - Sanctuary Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I'm leveling mine up for endgame now. However I have no plans on doing tiger event. TBH, I don't really like most of the events...

    Mine will be going for G16 gear, since I will most likely be sharing it with my Veno and Cleric.
    When the 11 and 12 star orbs were removed due to
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Here, I think there's only one or two that are real endgame/almost real endgame or whatever (I don't even know what qualifies for that anymore) but there are quite a few Wizards running around with the average +10/+12 weapon and +10 refines with decent shards and good ornaments or partially NW stuff.

    My faction lacks Wizards badly though.

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  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    well, the current wizard population I think it's pretty big considering what wizards as a class had to go through in the past 5 years.

    The 2 ranged DPS classes in game were Archers and Wizards (well, wizards more of a DPH but with the right gear and played well the dps was not bad either),with the archers having a bit of an advantage in pure DPS and the changes after anni packs were released in 2009 completely changed that sort of shaky balance.

    First hit was the anni packs with the Purge bow from Lunar that became common. For those times when the rivalry between wizards and archers was at its peak to have suck an advantage was almost game breaking.The only thig that stopped the disaster from happening was the somewhat low proc rate of Soul Shatter.
    I know, we had undine to debuff, but it was temporary, their purge was permanent and it changed TW/PvP quite a bit at that time.
    As a wizard with a good refined weapon you could still get into farming squads and make some money so it wasn't that bad, but people started to prefer archers because of the DPS that went through the roof from the lunar bow + cape interval. I know , wizards got some channeling too, but for us it was a tradeoff between channel robe for dps or pdef robe for survival. We got some good stuff but archers just went miles ahead. That was enough to thin out the wizard population quite well, but it was still a played class.

    Second hit was when 5 aps toons appeared. Now archers were rolling with claws/fists and soloing TT, making money, getting better gears and refines and overall just jumping ahead in survival/damage widening even more the gap between the two type of range DDs. BMs and Barbs restated their toons for aps and basically at that point wizards became totaly useless. PvP became a question of "land one stun then aps the wiz to death". There was nothing a wizard could bring to a farming squad but dead weight. In TW there was still need for wizards but it was just that only instance and pretty much nothing else.
    A lot of wizards I knew just quit the game or re-rolled an aps toon because at one point it was difficult to even get into a BH squad.

    Third hit was when Tideborn came out. Now there is another 5 aps toon and a caster that has way more survival skills, better dps, better CC... pretty much better everyting. Not as hard of a nuker as the wizard but better in pretty much everything else.Now in maybe the only thing where we had an edge we had a serious competitor. Proof was the gazilion of psys that filled up the servers, most of them played by former wizards.

    Forth hit was when Nirvana came out. Again an instance where wizards had no place. As a matter of fact casters had no place, but lets keep it to wizards. DPS classes just got better geared, got harder to kill and in turn they dealed a lot more damage to the wizards...By this point the only competitively geared wizards were alts of APS toons. Of course, played badly, and I mean screaching the nails on the black board bad. From the times before the packs came out I could barely see 2-3 wizards in game. Well geared ones there were a few, but played by half brain dead aps mains that had no clue what they were doing. Whoever was rolling a wizard abandoned the class between 95 and 100 when it was obvious it could not stand a chance.
    To make it even worse now we have God of Frenzy, Sacc Strike and Spirit Blackhole...like these decked out aps classes needed more help to kill wizards...

    Fifth hit was when R9 came out. Some old school wizards that in the meantime rolled aps toons got their old love in R9 + refines and started doing really well in PvP/TW. The midless rich apps croud created some abominations of full +12 JOSD wizards but they were still painfully bad at playing the class. Although on paper this looks good, I consider it a hit because it just highlighted the wizard's problem: if you're not full R9 with +10 refines you're useless.
    In PvE wizards were still useless anyway, and PWI finally accepted they fked up the casters badly and created Caster Nirvana, an abomination of instance thought out by a Down Syndrome dev with severe ADHD. while aps toons were able to run as many nirvanas as they wanted the casters were still limited on how many runs they can do. I mean...how much below 20 you need your IQ to be to actually create something like that and call it a solution?

    Anyway, R9rrr comes out and somehow wizards get a life line. That is good, it's great actually.
    The problem is 99% of the endgame wizard population is an alt of an aps toon. The other 1% are just cash shopped non factors.
    I see "endgame" wizards in R9rrr on my server playing and I cringe...I watched wizards in PvP at west gate and I wanted to be able to actually slap them that's how bad they were.
    In about 6 months since I came back to this game I saw about 5 wizards on the whole server that are playing their class right. The others are visibly aps classes alts and played accordingly: base yourself on gear+HP to tank if that fails call the other guy nub or ask for some skills to not be used because "it's not fair"....yeah....that bad...
    I'm leveling mine up for endgame now. However I have no plans on doing tiger event. TBH, I don't really like most of the events...

    Mine will be going for G16 gear, since I will most likely be sharing it with my Veno and Cleric.

    sorry to disappoint, but that is not endgame wizard gear.
    I'm full g16, with +10 weapon, buffed I have 11k HP, 15k pdef, 19k mdef and 34 defense levels. A R9rrr +10 archer auto attacks me for 5k non crits. Stun Pew Pew and I'm dead.
    I thought wizards would do better in G16 gear but vs R9rr or R9rrr they stand no chance.
    Your choice for gear is good if you plan on sharing it, but don't expect to do anything relevant in TW, PvP is out of question and in NW it all depends on your luck and how smart you chose the battles you're in.
    For a while after I came back to this game I thought there might be other options beside R9rrr. Maybe get a very well built G16 + some skill and that will help. I was so far from truth. Now I need to take a decision: do I push forward for R9rrr or just quit the game forever. I have not quit already because I like my wizard gameplay waaay too much.

    Unfortunately there are just two types of wizards in this game: the one-shot and the R9rrr. There is nothing in between.
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  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Unfortunately there are just two types of wizards in this game: the one-shot and the R9rrr. There is nothing in between.

    This is basically the same for every DD class. Except like a seeker, but...ehhh...
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  • Aeliah - Dreamweaver
    Aeliah - Dreamweaver Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    @Ursa

    Hmm... yeah this is an interesting look at it. Modern complaints about some of the really nasty things wizards can do could be understood by this sort of history. What has to be carefully avoided when fixing problems like the ones wizards had in the past, though, is going too far the other direction. Nowadays, nobody in their right mind could claim that wizards don't have a lot of nice things going for them. I don't think it has gone too far the other way, but any more and it might. Wizards are definitely top or near top of the league when it comes around to all-around pvp prowess, in 1vs1 OR group situations.

    Therefore it definitely isn't the wizard's skillset which is preventing people from choosing the wizard. Rather, it is the cost of gearing a new class (of any sort) up to r9rr in order to be competitive at endgame. Due to this cost, people will tend to work with whatever characters they already have. Looking at the historical problems wizards had, fewer people on average will have wizard characters already somewhat geared out (somewhat-geared out wizards are cheaper to upgrade to r9rr than a brand new character). This is probably why we still don't have a lot of wizards.

    Mind you, Ursa, the problem could be our server as well. On servers where OPEN-WORLD pvp is more common, wizards are more common as well. A cursory look at Lost City and Harshlands seems to suggest as much. Dreamweaver has had its good moments of open-world pvp, however, it has always lagged somewhat behind the pvp servers. Therefore, the drive to make a wizard in Dreamweaver is probably motivated mostly by TW (as you already mentioned, a wizard is not necessary for anything pve-related, especially since seekers came around).

    I do know a bunch of people on Dreamweaver with up-and-coming wizards, who possibly moved to wizards as a result of their new gameplay. However, most of them aren't endgame-geared yet. If I'm correct, then we should be seeing more and more wizards in the future approaching endgame-level gears (like yourself), as more and more people appreciate how potent a well-played wizard can be.

    @Eoria,

    a few other possible exceptions might include:
    -r8r weapon barb in g16 armor, cube neck/warsong belt can still tank ok for catapult purposes
    -dps assassins in some r8r gear and jades can still do pretty good against most enemies
    -heavy armor g16 cleric builds (refined well) can tank nearly as well or better than an arcane r9rr cleric build
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  • XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary
    XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary Posts: 1,173 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    For Sanctuary at least, wizard has always been pretty unpopulated. Whether its actually the case or Im just losing my mind, I find that psys almost always outnumber me. Im one of a disproportionately small number of wizards in my current faction. The experience was similar in the faction before that, and in TW I find that theres usually two or three wizards and thats about it.

    However, the nice thing about that is I find a lot of people neglect wizards as something theyre prepared to deal with, meaning a large portion of the people I run into in TW and NW arent ready with soul of fire.

    As for the initial question regarding tigers, I havent done tigers since about May so I honestly have no clue.
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  • Spell_Caster - Raging Tide
    Spell_Caster - Raging Tide Posts: 2,216 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    @ursa i feel your pain.


    On RT most wizzies are pve and u see them mostly in tw. My wizzie is pretty well geared with 20k hp 32k pdef 135 att lvls and 68 def lvls and i still get oneshotted by:

    1. Demon r9.3 venos who do 40k crits
    2. R9.3 archers who 3 spark and autoattack so fast that those 12k crits wont even allow me to charmtick
    3. R9.3 seekers who do zerk crits of over 25k.

    And these are just the range dangers...then we need to dodge the cc sins the barbs who think their mission in life is to test their arma with 55k hp....bms with their large range of cc.

    And what can we do?

    Ah we can drop ulties...that do 4k dmg and hurt nobody because we cant get in range to debuff. Also in order to actually do some decent dmg with the fire combo we need to expose and get dangerously close to our targets.

    The thing is wizards are really falling behind in pk and tw.
    Our survivability index drops way too low once purged. Our escapes are relying on a lucky prok of purify , our jump can glitch in terrain and kill us most times and in the world of...who has a bigger range of attack we are fkd. To kill a fully buffed archer is almost impossible endgame.
    Lack of purge for us is our downside. The archer can just keep max distance stun and bind u and poke till u get purged or...pop a dew star and kill u with basic attacks.

    If they'd create a class change stone for sale i would buy one as i find myself very unhappy with my class.
    If someone hates you for no reason, then give that **** a reason!b:chuckle
  • Boomz - Harshlands
    Boomz - Harshlands Posts: 516 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    i win wizzy everytime and i'm fine with that :D
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  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    @ursa i feel your pain.


    On RT most wizzies are pve and u see them mostly in tw. My wizzie is pretty well geared with 20k hp 32k pdef 135 att lvls and 68 def lvls and i still get oneshotted by:

    1. Demon r9.3 venos who do 40k crits
    2. R9.3 archers who 3 spark and autoattack so fast that those 12k crits wont even allow me to charmtick
    3. R9.3 seekers who do zerk crits of over 25k.

    And these are just the range dangers...then we need to dodge the cc sins the barbs who think their mission in life is to test their arma with 55k hp....bms with their large range of cc.

    And what can we do?

    Ah we can drop ulties...that do 4k dmg and hurt nobody because we cant get in range to debuff. Also in order to actually do some decent dmg with the fire combo we need to expose and get dangerously close to our targets.

    The thing is wizards are really falling behind in pk and tw.
    Our survivability index drops way too low once purged. Our escapes are relying on a lucky prok of purify , our jump can glitch in terrain and kill us most times and in the world of...who has a bigger range of attack we are fkd. To kill a fully buffed archer is almost impossible endgame.
    Lack of purge for us is our downside. The archer can just keep max distance stun and bind u and poke till u get purged or...pop a dew star and kill u with basic attacks.

    If they'd create a class change stone for sale i would buy one as i find myself very unhappy with my class.

    I know what you're saying and I agree wholeheartedly.

    However I stopped to really care. After the Dragon Orb fiasco I decided to quit this game forever. Uninstalled, cleaned up registry, deleted everything related to PWI from my PC.
    I "purged" everything related to PWI b:chuckle
    It was not easy, as it was a game I played and loved for a really long time. I had a few attempts to quit in the past when I went to play/try other games, but always came back to PWI because with a bit of effort I was always in the endgame zone.
    I'm playing another MMO now, way better in every possible way, from class balance in PvP , PvE and all that, with GVG, Nexus events and all that. Very dynamic PvE an aim based system, quite neat. I've quit PWI for it back when it was launched for a while, but was P2P then, now it's free.

    My advice however to someone who wants to roll a wizard in PWI now: DO NOT DO IT.

    Why?

    1 . If you have money to throw on this game: go do something nice with them and play another free MMO. There are a few option out there, one of the best of them is made on the Unreal3 engine.
    2. If you have money and you really want to spend on PWI do not go with wizard. It's probably the class that requires the highest skill level in the game to be played properly. Money will not buy you skill. Contrary to what schools are teaching you these days we're not all created equals, some players are better than others. You're going to throw money in, get endgame gear and still get rolled by other classes if your skill is not up to par. Watch and read the forums: the wizards considered "very good" are not playing this game for a year or two. They are usually 4-5 years veterans that have really highly refine mechanics of gameplay and even if you have the same gear + same genie as them you will lose because your lack of experience. When you need to think they "feel" the game, they have their skill timings down based on opponent skills. This is not something you can just read up and memorize. Will take many months of getting rolled until you get your basics in properly and then you will try to expand and grow into your own style which will take some other months if not years. Expansions will mess up your learning process because usually a lot of things change, and you're behind, instead of refining a few details like the veterans your whole world will go upside down. Proof? read all the QQ rivers after each major update/skill changes in the game and you will single out ppl that I talk about easily.
    3. If you really want to play a wizard , go with it endgame and buy out whatever you need for it, be warned, it's only a 1% chance you will succeed. When you do, you will be good for PVP , but you will topped by the other classes in PvE regardless of whatever you want to do. While others are having it easy you will have to put a lot of effort , time and money into improving your class just a little bit to close the gap.
    4. if you plan to merchant a endgame geared wizard you will waste a lot of time for nothing. Go to gym, go out, meet people. Use that time to improve as person not some shiny pixels because PWI will find a way to sh.it on your work every time you thought you accomplished something. If you can exploit a game bug/bot or whatever else to the 10-15 bil coins you need for an engame wiz, go ahead, nothing is going to happen to you anyway, there is no risk related to cheating in this game.
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  • XHurricanex - Harshlands
    XHurricanex - Harshlands Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    @Ursa how is that new game called you have been playing right now? I`m very interested finding something else after orb glitch! b:thanks
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  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    My guess is he is playing the same game pictured on my sig below. The mage class in that game is extremely fun to play in pvp, while also being one of the most desired classes in pve next to tanks.
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    I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.
  • Anri_Rose - Archosaur
    Anri_Rose - Archosaur Posts: 346 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Lets face it , its been a long time in the coming... But its time for all wizzies to leave the world.
    How sad, because this has been the only class I ever felt like I enjoyed all the time ive played PWI.

    Too bad at every step we have been more or less hindered.
    Where have all the mages gone. Long time casting.
    Who altered my siggy im
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  • JePoY - Lost City
    JePoY - Lost City Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I play *********
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  • OIdManMagic - Archosaur
    OIdManMagic - Archosaur Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    bloodmystic was right years ago - pwi hates wizards . . . .
  • Puddinsundae - Harshlands
    Puddinsundae - Harshlands Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    bloodmystic was right years ago - pwi hates wizards . . . .

    We do not speak that name.
  • Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721
    edited July 2014
    So few newbie wizards. Not even 1 in 50 of new chars seem to be a wiz. Q.Q
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  • SweetieBot - Lothranis
    SweetieBot - Lothranis Posts: 18,978 Arc User
    edited July 2014

    So few newbie wizards. Not even 1 in 50 of new chars seem to be a wiz. Q.Q

    This looks like a NECRO!

    Kittysama - Raging Tide replied to a message that was 6 months 18 days 9 hours 44 minutes old.

    Any thread over one month (30 days) old is considered to be a dead thread and you're not supposed to post in them. The person you are replying to probably doesn't care any more or can no longer be found on the forums. The topic itself could be out of date. Next time just make a new thread.

    Let's see how long it takes for a mod to close this :)
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  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited July 2014
    And Kitty should know better than this.
    (Insert fancy image here)
    image
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