Inconsistent Support

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · June 2014

This isn't a bug related specifically to the game, but rather an issue with the quality of service that we are presented with by PWE. As a result, it very likely reflects on all the games PWE publishes. Normally I would not use this type of venue for this type of issue, but everywhere else it is falling on deaf ears. This post is for the players, and with hope, our CM, or maybe some of the admins will see it and act on it appropriately.

Over the years, this has been a common issue with various things from accidentally NPC'ing your own bound gear, to incidents where an individuals account information was compromised and someone else NPC'ed or sold their gear.
More recently, it's a big issue with the Primal skill books because the icons for them are completely different from any of the other Sage/Demon books. Because of the difference it's incredibly easy to accidentally choose the incorrect book, and since you have to farm 30 or 60 bloods in most cases, to acquire the book, it's a very costly problem for the user.

And now to the issue....
In the first case: A player can open a ticket for these issues, and be fully compensated without question. In the case of gear, it will vary from the player being sent gear with refines and shards, to just plain gear with possibly some coin to re-purchase some of the refines/shards. In the case of the skill books, they are usually compensated by either being mailed the book and advised to trash the wrong one, or the code for the item will be changed in their inventory at the next maintenance.

In the second case: A player can open a ticket, and PWE support will deny said request; basically telling the player that they are screwed. Even after being provided with hard information on other tickets (with ticket numbers referenced), they will still deny that they are able to perform such a task.
Appealing the decision either results in partial compensation, or just a repetition of the same denial.

What's even more stupid, is that the Support Staff will say that they "don't have the materials available" to provide the requested compensation. As if the books were physical items that sat on shelves in the office or something.

TLDR: If they are going to compensate some people, they need to provide equal service for all. They aren't doing this by any means. It's also too late for them to say "we won't do that", because they already have. Denying like service to the rest of us is a personal affront, as if some players are more privileged than others.

It is extremely frustrating for us to have a friend make a ticket, and be compensated, and we make the same ticket, and are rejected multiple times.

Zoldi - Morai · June 2014

Great post.
You could have added the "Go on our forums to discuss that with the community" (something like that) while the forums mods are told to close those kind of threads saying people to submit a ticket.

SavageRose - Heavens Tear · June 2014

Wonderful post!

foley3k · June 2014

I can say from experience, their support staff is like any other support staff for any other company. Multiple people have access to your account, they need that access. But You will likely get different responses from different people.

My experience with them (might be against rules, but pertains to the topic and issue at hand)

I did the monday tigers event. Came 3rd place for psys. I didnt receive anything as a reward, even though I was supposed to. I had all the prerequisites needed to get a reward, but never received anything in the mail. I took a screen shot showing my 3rd placement, my empty inbox and my inventory (which had about 15 empty spots)

I submit ticket. The flollow happens of a 5-7 day period
1st response was that they could not do anything about it. I respond.
2nd response, from different employee said I didnt get anything cause my inventory was possibly full, they obviously didnt look at the SS. I respond.
3rd response, different person, telling me to ignore the previous 2 responses, and that they looked at their logs, and it shows that it tried to send me something but for some reason it didnt go through. I should expect the rewards at the next maintenance. Bout 3 weeks later I got rewards.

If I hadnt responded my tickets would have been closed and issue never resolved. But it does show inconsistency with the ticketing staff. If you get someone who is having a bad day, your S.O.L. Just like any other "call center"

Annalyse - Heavens Tear · June 2014

The sad thing is that the ticket system used to work so well. In the past, legitimate game problems were quickly cleared up, often even having the ticket result in an in-game visit by a GM (I had this happen on more than one occasion). People that were ****, despite it generally being their own fault, nearly always got their stuff back as support worked to track it down. People that accidentally NPCed things always had it returned.

Now? Not only are we getting varied treatment like Sylen pointed out, which is completely unfair to some individuals, but also the support staff can no longer be bothered with even the simplest issues or actual game problems. Every ticket I have sent and those sent by people I know over the last several months has gotten one standard reply: please post this problem in Quality Corner. It doesn't matter if you even stated in your ticket that the issue had already been reported... they will still tell you to report it.

Most recently I had a problem with a broken quest so I sent in a ticket as advised, and got the usual QC response. I replied letting them know that had been done and received the reply that they couldn't help me because all they had the power to do was help people stuck in terrain or those being harrassed by other players (and the ticket was closed). Seriously??

The lies are what bothers me the most. Telling us you don't have the power to do anything when two days later someone else tickets the problem and gets a fix is ridiculous.

Velra - Dreamweaver · June 2014

Yeah the serves for players sucks...like S U C K S!

Here is what happened to a faction mate of mine. He NPCed R9rr gear because ALL the gear icons look the same and ALL the gear when NPCing it gets the same warning message. Was told "We can't help you." Same faction same problem only 2nd faction mate got his gear returned with stuff to re-shard and within the same month. WTF right?!
So me being me I want to know, did the 2nd person give PWI more real cash or what does it take to get that kind of serves? Just wondering why some get helped while other don't warrent even some lube before getting screwed over...

FaceRolI - Sanctuary · June 2014

Great thread.

Really need some more consistency on PWE support.

Not to mention how often (or for how much) PWE support staff get "scammed" into "replacing" items.

therev · June 2014

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

This isn't a bug related specifically to the game, but rather an issue with the quality of service that we are presented with by PWE. As a result, it very likely reflects on all the games PWE publishes. Normally I would not use this type of venue for this type of issue, but everywhere else it is falling on deaf ears. This post is for the players, and with hope, our CM, or maybe some of the admins will see it and act on it appropriately.

Over the years, this has been a common issue with various things from accidentally NPC'ing your own bound gear, to incidents where an individuals account information was compromised and someone else NPC'ed or sold their gear.
More recently, it's a big issue with the Primal skill books because the icons for them are completely different from any of the other Sage/Demon books. Because of the difference it's incredibly easy to accidentally choose the incorrect book, and since you have to farm 30 or 60 bloods in most cases, to acquire the book, it's a very costly problem for the user.

And now to the issue....
In the first case: A player can open a ticket for these issues, and be fully compensated without question. In the case of gear, it will vary from the player being sent gear with refines and shards, to just plain gear with possibly some coin to re-purchase some of the refines/shards. In the case of the skill books, they are usually compensated by either being mailed the book and advised to trash the wrong one, or the code for the item will be changed in their inventory at the next maintenance.

In the second case: A player can open a ticket, and PWE support will deny said request; basically telling the player that they are screwed. Even after being provided with hard information on other tickets (with ticket numbers referenced), they will still deny that they are able to perform such a task.
Appealing the decision either results in partial compensation, or just a repetition of the same denial.

What's even more stupid, is that the Support Staff will say that they "don't have the materials available" to provide the requested compensation. As if the books were physical items that sat on shelves in the office or something.

TLDR: If they are going to compensate some people, they need to provide equal service for all. They aren't doing this by any means. It's also too late for them to say "we won't do that", because they already have. Denying like service to the rest of us is a personal affront, as if some players are more privileged than others.

It is extremely frustrating for us to have a friend make a ticket, and be compensated, and we make the same ticket, and are rejected multiple times.

great point

DoodsWH - Sanctuary · June 2014

Could it be that players where abusing said compensation on some servers and now they have to lock it down? while you say that shouldn't affect everything it does. specially when multiple people do so. The few mess up and the many get punished. Does it suck? yes.

I havent even bothered writing in for my mistake on primal book because of above thing i wont get into.

Hope it gets sorted out.

Verenor - Morai · June 2014

DoodsWH - Sanctuary wrote: »

Could it be that players where abusing said compensation on some servers and now they have to lock it down? while you say that shouldn't affect everything it does. specially when multiple people do so. The few mess up and the many get punished. Does it suck? yes.

I havent even bothered writing in for my mistake on primal book because of above thing i wont get into.

Hope it gets sorted out.

A lockdown would still mean they'd treat every player equally, just that the treatment has changed over the course of time. However that isn't the problem, the problem is 2 people sending tickets regarding the same issue, and both get a difference response. There is no consistency, no "equal" treatment other than a) incompitent Customer Service Representative, b) Bad Luck Brian-CSR having a bad day and taking it out on the player. C) Senior CSR who knows how to actually do something.

To me it seems like they don't train their interns, they just get seated at the desk and reply denying everything they can untill the player gives up. From time to time there will be a Senior on deck looking at tickets, having had training in these issues the Senior does know which items are to be returned to the player and which not, and this imbalance of schooling is what pisses off players a lot more than should be allowed.

eediot · June 2014

So you can have accidentally NPCed gear returned? I sold my hallucinatory interval cape off my sin without noticing. 3 people told me to put in a ticket and I'd get it back. I did a ticket, reply said they couldn't do that. OK, I'll go submit again. and again. and again. and again.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · June 2014

eediot wrote: »

So you can have accidentally NPCed gear returned? I sold my hallucinatory interval cape off my sin without noticing. 3 people told me to put in a ticket and I'd get it back. I did a ticket, reply said they couldn't do that. OK, I'll go submit again. and again. and again. and again.

Just make sure the previous ticket is completely closed before you send it in again. After that, it's like playing Russion Roulette to get a decent staff member that's not going to just copy-paste the data.

It also help to give exact date and time of when the issue occured, and a screenshot of your gear if possible. (I take screenies of mine after upgrades specifically for this purpose.)

It's a sad practice when we have to document our stuff just-in-case because the support staff is to overworked to be bothered with checking the logs.

ChiefZoltar - Heavens Tear · July 2014

I've got a few instances of poor support/unfair support.
The first time, I placed a bid on something in the bidding hall by accident. I had been trying to bid on something else when it turns out I had the item below it selected. The item below it was worth literally nothing, no one had bid on it, and my accidental bid was more than anyone would ever pay for it.
I sent in a ticket with screenshots of various things like my inventory and the bids. I got a reply a week later saying I was screwed. I requested an explanation and got only a other replies of similar nature. After one of my replies, my ticket was completely removed from my support history, so I sent in another reply saying that I had sent in a ticket prior, but it was removed from the history and I would like answers. That one got a reply saying essentially the same thing as before, so I asked why again. That ticket was deleted. Sent in another ticket saying the previous two tickets were deleted and that I needed answers. I got told not to send in multiple tickets of the same nature. I replied stating how much money I've spent on this game and how long I've been playing and I quickly got a reply apologizing and saying that I couldn't get my gold back because "they didn't do that sort of thing" when I know other people have gotten sillier requests fulfilled.

My other instance was when I ticketed saying I had npc'd an augment device. I got a reply asking me to provide the full name of the item, when I npc'd it, the name of the character, and a few other things. I gave them the information and they "sent it up to another level of support". A month passes before I get a reply saying that they found no records. It's a little BS that I don't get my item back when there are other people who have clearly lied in tickets just to get free stuff.

anaovt1 · July 2014

ChiefZoltar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've got a few instances of poor support/unfair support.
The first time, I placed a bid on something in the bidding hall by accident. I had been trying to bid on something else when it turns out I had the item below it selected. The item below it was worth literally nothing, no one had bid on it, and my accidental bid was more than anyone would ever pay for it.
I sent in a ticket with screenshots of various things like my inventory and the bids. I got a reply a week later saying I was screwed. I requested an explanation and got only a other replies of similar nature. After one of my replies, my ticket was completely removed from my support history, so I sent in another reply saying that I had sent in a ticket prior, but it was removed from the history and I would like answers. That one got a reply saying essentially the same thing as before, so I asked why again. That ticket was deleted. Sent in another ticket saying the previous two tickets were deleted and that I needed answers. I got told not to send in multiple tickets of the same nature. I replied stating how much money I've spent on this game and how long I've been playing and I quickly got a reply apologizing and saying that I couldn't get my gold back because "they didn't do that sort of thing" when I know other people have gotten sillier requests fulfilled.

My other instance was when I ticketed saying I had npc'd an augment device. I got a reply asking me to provide the full name of the item, when I npc'd it, the name of the character, and a few other things. I gave them the information and they "sent it up to another level of support". A month passes before I get a reply saying that they found no records. It's a little BS that I don't get my item back when there are other people who have clearly lied in tickets just to get free stuff.

Honestly I think PWE really shouldn't give people back npcd items, wrong bids, wrong books, etc. That they do give them back to some people is more the problem. Really, people just need to pay more attention to what they're crafting. I've crafted wrong books a few times and just dealt with it because that was my fault.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · July 2014

anaovt1 wrote: »

Honestly I think PWE really shouldn't give people back npcd items, wrong bids, wrong books, etc. That they do give them back to some people is more the problem. Really, people just need to pay more attention to what they're crafting. I've crafted wrong books a few times and just dealt with it because that was my fault.

In the case of regular books, sure.
In the case of yourself NPC-ing your own gear, yes. especially since they've added the warning.

However...
In the case where your account is hijacked, and gear is lost as a result. That could be compensated.
In the case of the primal books, the icons are completely alien to every skill book we've had for the past 5 years. That should be compensated as well.

anaovt1 · July 2014

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

However...
In the case where your account is hijacked, and gear is lost as a result. That could be compensated.
In the case of the primal books, the icons are completely alien to every skill book we've had for the past 5 years. That should be compensated as well.

Yes, in an account hijack situation that can be proved, sure, return gear.

However, it doesn't take that much to look up the skill icon for primal books. Maybe a return for the first few people who did it before it was possible to look up which meant sage and demon on the internet, but since that information has become available, it's the player's own fault for not knowing it.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear · July 2014

Bump because this is a serious issue and deserves some acknowledgement.

Jaabg - Sanctuary · July 2014

Why did it get moved out of quality corner into general discussion b:question

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · July 2014

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why did it get moved out of quality corner into general discussion b:question

I've suspected that it would happen since I posted it. I'd like to thank the mods for leaving it in QC for as long as they did.

Now everyone poke Sparkie about it.b:chuckle

Unknown · July 2014

This content has been removed.

Viktorian - Archosaur · July 2014

with the amount of stickies in GD everything is gunna drop off the front page soon

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide · July 2014

Honestly, I had to send in a ticket last night, and surprise, less than 24 hours later, I received a response and one that I was hoping for. Support confirmed my problem and will correct it within the next maintenance or two.

I have sent in four tickets since I have started playing, and each one was answered within 24 hours, so I have had no issues with the support staff and thank them for their quick responses.

Maybe, if some tickets weren't sent in with such vitriolic hatred a ticket might get answered much quicker.

_Elax_ - Raging Tide · July 2014

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide wrote: »

Maybe, if some tickets weren't sent in with such vitriolic hatred a ticket might get answered much quicker.

That doesn't justify previously mentioned cases in any way. The problem isn't as much the time it takes to get a reply as the complete contingency of the actions taken. If there are two identical cases with two different approaches, it is disrespectful towards the players, more than that to not even provide a solid explanation. In the end we can only either complain or stop playing at all and see if there will be any reaction at all. b:shocked

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide · July 2014

_Elax_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

That doesn't justify previously mentioned cases in any way. The problem isn't as much the time it takes to get a reply as the complete contingency of the actions taken. If there are two identical cases with two different approaches, it is disrespectful towards the players, more than that to not even provide a solid explanation. In the end we can only either complain or stop playing at all and see if there will be any reaction at all. b:shocked

The ticket I submitted last night and had answered by support today said it would be rectified within the next maintenance or two. Oddly enough it was rectified a couple hours ago. To me, that was an example of support that was quick and with excellent customer service.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear · July 2014

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide wrote: »

The ticket I submitted last night and had answered by support today said it would be rectified within the next maintenance or two. Oddly enough it was rectified a couple hours ago. To me, that was an example of support that was quick and with excellent customer service.

But this is exactly what this post is about.... the difference in support. One person sends in a ticket and gets a quick and positive result. The same day, someone else sends in a ticket about an easily fixable issue and gets a "please post this in Quality Corner. We can't do anything to help you" reply.

There do seem to be one or two ticket-readers that strive to actually help the playerbase with their issues. But there are several that will do nothing exept tell the ticketer to post their problem (even if it isn't a bug at all) in Quality Corner, and then close or delete the ticket. It's this inconsistency that is the major issue, as players should not be treated so differently. They need to have a set of rules on what they can and cannot do, and follow them. It shouldn't be us sending in repeated tickets just hoping we will catch that one guy that will actually help.

The replies I have gotten to tickets lately have made me start hating the existence of Quality Corner. Seems like a lot of ticket-readers are just using that as a way to be lazy, and it is even upsetting to the mods as they are sending people there to post things that are unsuitable for that forum section.

KeepMeAIive - Raging Tide · July 2014

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Because of the difference it's incredibly easy to accidentally choose the incorrect book

You can simply tell the difference between sage and demon by looking at the 'required' skill in description before you make the skill b:victory

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide · July 2014

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But this is exactly what this post is about.... the difference in support. One person sends in a ticket and gets a quick and positive result. The same day, someone else sends in a ticket about an easily fixable issue and gets a "please post this in Quality Corner. We can't do anything to help you" reply.

There do seem to be one or two ticket-readers that strive to actually help the playerbase with their issues. But there are several that will do nothing exept tell the ticketer to post their problem (even if it isn't a bug at all) in Quality Corner, and then close or delete the ticket. It's this inconsistency that is the major issue, as players should not be treated so differently. They need to have a set of rules on what they can and cannot do, and follow them. It shouldn't be us sending in repeated tickets just hoping we will catch that one guy that will actually help.

The replies I have gotten to tickets lately have made me start hating the existence of Quality Corner. Seems like a lot of ticket-readers are just using that as a way to be lazy, and it is even upsetting to the mods as they are sending people there to post things that are unsuitable for that forum section.

I understand where everyone is coming from but as it was said earlier by someone, this happens in any business. If you have ever worked in a call center/customer support/customer service, or have had to deal with any of the aforementioned you know it happens all the time. I can call up with an issue be it a bill that was overcharged, or a credit card statement, cable company, government agency (the worst customer service), or even walk into a fast food restaurant after my order was messed up in the drive through and I can get varying degrees of "help" from extremely poor, "sorry we can't help you" to "sure no problem let me fix that right away."

Even on the phone I can be told something will be fixed, but find out it wasn't and have to go through it all over again. Sadly its up to the individual employee to handle the call/email/game ticket/etc. or make sure I can get in touch with the person that can rectify the problem. PWI isn't alone in this. 99% of businesses especially larger ones, you will deal with incompetence more so than competence.
Luckily in my case I've had only positive experiences with PWI's support when I send in a ticket

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · July 2014

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide wrote: »

I understand where everyone is coming from but as it was said earlier by someone, this happens in any business. If you have ever worked in a call center/customer support/customer service, or have had to deal with any of the aforementioned you know it happens all the time. I can call up with an issue be it a bill that was overcharged, or a credit card statement, cable company, government agency (the worst customer service), or even walk into a fast food restaurant after my order was messed up in the drive through and I can get varying degrees of "help" from extremely poor, "sorry we can't help you" to "sure no problem let me fix that right away."

Even on the phone I can be told something will be fixed, but find out it wasn't and have to go through it all over again. Sadly its up to the individual employee to handle the call/email/game ticket/etc. or make sure I can get in touch with the person that can rectify the problem. PWI isn't alone in this. 99% of businesses especially larger ones, you will deal with incompetence more so than competence.
Luckily in my case I've had only positive experiences with PWI's support when I send in a ticket

Good support should not be this varied though. I work in a call center. I head up an entire team for our center. We have standards, and the only variation you will see are that some of the newer techs might take a bit longer with the response.

We're a global desk for a very large company though, and we have high standards. The other desks work to the same standards, and there are set procedures for specific situations.

It's not unreasonable to expect that from any support team. PWE obviously either has no set process, or is not educating their employees on the process if they have one.

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide · July 2014

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Good support should not be this varied though. I work in a call center. I head up an entire team for our center. We have standards, and the only variation you will see are that some of the newer techs might take a bit longer with the response.

We're a global desk for a very large company though, and we have high standards. The other desks work to the same standards, and there are set procedures for specific situations.

It's not unreasonable to expect that from any support team. PWE obviously either has no set process, or is not educating their employees on the process if they have one.

Trust me, I agree. I'm not arguing with what you are saying, as I've worked in a call center before. I've always believed I would want to help a customer as I would hope to be helped. Unfortunately not everyone working in a call center or support center believes in the same standards, or has the same work ethic of doing the best job you can.

I do wish PWI's support was excellent across the board, and I know its not, but the experiences I have had with them have been excellent so I guess I feel fortunate. Who knows, maybe it does boil down to how much your account has spent?

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · July 2014

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide wrote: »

Trust me, I agree. I'm not arguing with what you are saying, as I've worked in a call center before. I've always believed I would want to help a customer as I would hope to be helped. Unfortunately not everyone working in a call center or support center believes in the same standards, or has the same work ethic of doing the best job you can.

I do wish PWI's support was excellent across the board, and I know its not, but the experiences I have had with them have been excellent so I guess I feel fortunate. Who knows, maybe it does boil down to how much your account has spent?

That may be possible, since I typically get better support on my main account, than I do on some of my alt accounts. It truly shouldn't play a factor though, and I do know some heavy chargers that have gotten very poor support as well.

opkossy · July 2014

I don't think it's the amount you spend.

The account I usually use hasn't put so much as a penny into the game and has, with very few exceptions, always received quick and useful responses.

That said, I also haven't had any issues since they've started sending everyone to QC and saying they're out of stock, giving wrong information on rules, and so on. On top of that, I've never sent in a ticket about a major occasion such as the orb fiasco as I've seen just how useless those normally are.

Inconsistent Support

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