Change of play.

ixmeepxi · June 2014

I have 2 toons:

A RRR9 +11-12 vit stones, sage vit barb (Full A-S cards, etc)
A RRR9+10-12 Garnet Gem mystic (Few passives, no new kills, 2 A cards)

My barb is primarily a cata now, I've been playing mystic alot more lately and really enjoy it.

My question is, how are mystics late endgame compared to others? Is it worth to go ahead with the +12 and S cards, etc? I've watched alot of themysticboob and he has great survival skills but seems to be lacking damage.

What is the game like for you endgame mystics? Do you enjoy PVP? TW? NW?

Are there any other mystic youtube channels

that are worth watching?

CapnK - Sanctuary · June 2014

ixmeepxi wrote: »

great survival skills but seems to be lacking damage.

This sums it up pretty well at endgame. I generally don't die to anything of my gear level except archers (purge so dirty). Mystic lacks burst damage like wizards have.

That doesn't mean you can't kill a tanky charmed person, it just means you have to set up a long combo to do so. Kind of like a chess match where you have to plan ahead when and where you're going to use your chi, lysing that plant, use Sublime Transfusion.

Mystic is extremely fun and I love playing it.

blackeroasis · June 2014

From my experience learning from and seeing a great mystic on my server has really changed my views on mystic. I'm sure hes going to post on this topic so I won't drop names. I don't know what you guys are talking about lacking damage.

I've seen said mystic 3 shot R9rr Barbs and hes not even +12. Hes still +10 armor and I believe +11 weap. I've seen the same mystic 2 shot (Not using absorb soul combo) +12 R9rr Wizzies (I wont drop names). Mystic has some really scary damage potential.

The main issue I see with most mystics is the lack of combo usage. Mystic has all the tools to do major damage. But you guys are right it takes time and to gear towards more channeling actually helps.

I've seen the videos of the mystic you mentioned and noticed he doesn't even use half the combos he should be using. However, in his defense hes fighting in mass PvP and it takes a lot of agility for a mystic to pull that off in mass PvP. I am still working on being quicker with my attack and defence combos in mass as well. Where in 1v1 and small groups I feel like I have so much time to do what needs to be done.

But to answer your question. Yes mystic is amazing if you put in the time to be good at it. Learning the importance of sacrificing pets to boost offense and defense and not fighting like a veno is really important. Locking down an opponent is mainly used to bide time and not a real means of ending the target.

You will feel a lot stronger once you get all your skills.

Mysticboob - Sanctuary · June 2014

Hi,
Thanks for watching. I enjoy playing the Mystic- they have great survivability and pair great in teams.

It's true we lack the capability of taking down other endgame (jaded +12) efficiently (solo) because of lack of purge/powerful debuffs. The combos we have to do serious damage require a big setup, and is pretty easy for the other person to counter if they are decent. It's normally better to burst dd primary targets with assist or control them until you have support.

And as said above~ 1v1, mass pk, nw, tw, are all very different and would change one's playstyle. Lots of my videos are of me staying alive in nw, trying to get as many purify procs as i can and saving genie/apoth/sparks for map objectives.

I'd say troll stuns have passed purge as our biggest threat because with passives and cards we can still outheal damage even when purged.

If some1 does find a mystic youtube channel featuring a true endgame mystic (+12 jades) let me know, i'm always open for new info. Most of my gear is only +10 /incomps , with +12 weapon and two +12 ornaments.

One last note- the difference between demon and sage is actually very significant. Sage is noticeably more defensive, and demon more offensive. My playstyle is affected by this.

I switched from a Cleric to Mystic when EGs came out specifically for tw/ mass pvp. I think you'll like it over a catbarb because while both absorb crazy damage, mystics aren't as limited to a specific role in teamplay.

Zoldi - Morai · July 2014

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

This sums it up pretty well at endgame. I generally don't die to anything of my gear level except archers (purge so dirty). Mystic lacks burst damage like wizards have.

That doesn't mean you can't kill a tanky charmed person, it just means you have to set up a long combo to do so. Kind of like a chess match where you have to plan ahead when and where you're going to use your chi, lysing that plant, use Sublime Transfusion.

Mystic is extremely fun and I love playing it.

I pretty much agree with all this post. Mystics are kinda OP and are one the most interesting class to play in.my opinion. Regarding the "damage issue", i think that mystic can still spam a lot of damages very fast. Against a big target you need to work a little more and some are almost impossible to kill 1v1 (charmed and buffed barb with +12 ornamenrts and 50k+ HP that use apoth/invoke/...). But well... do you think it would be really easier for any psy/wiz/veno ?

ixmeepxi · July 2014

Thanks for the replies! If any of you or your mystics friend could ever make some 1v1 videos, that would be greatly appreciated. It's something we lack on the mystic forums

There are lots of NW, TW, ETC but hardly 1v1. I'd like to see at least semi endgame +10 or higher mystics in some 1v1.

On my server right now, everyone is too far ahead for me to post a vid. (Most have max passives, cards, etc) So I'll be glad to post some as soon as I catch up.

Zoldi - Morai · July 2014

I would like to see more 1v1 vids as well, especially against fully endgame deity archers with full buffs that "kite" a lot.

Evryn - Morai · July 2014

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

This sums it up pretty well at endgame. I generally don't die to anything of my gear level except archers (purge so dirty). Mystic lacks burst damage like wizards have.

This combo will put the hurt on a lot of people... Especially JoSD'd arcane folk if your Absorb Soul is still lvl 10 instead of upgraded.

Spark - (Rapid Growth) - (Lucky Break) - Primal Stormdance - Natures Vengeance - Zooming Thunder powder - Absorb Soul - Bramble Tornado - Absorb Soul - Choking Mists - Absorb Soul.

Zooming Thunder on a long channel like Absorb is just murderous b:laugh

CapnK - Sanctuary · July 2014

I'm assuming you're sage, because ZTP would be near-pointless for a demon that already sparked and rapid growthed.

Also when I tested ZTP with Absorb Soul only 2 could be done before ZTP ran out due to AS's cooldown. So that third one you use is going to be very very slow.

You also didn't include any control skills in there. An opponent who stands there and lets you hit him with that deserves to die.

Also it's better to save Lucky Break until after the opponent's charm has ticked instead of using it at the beginning.

But we're getting off-topic. TLDR, mystic is awesome. b:victory

Zoldi - Morai · July 2014

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

Especially JoSD'd arcane folk if your Absorb Soul is still lvl 10 instead of upgraded.

Endgame vs endgame I think AS11 is better, especially if you equip jones blessing before using it.

ixmeepxi · July 2014

Of those commenting, what is your chosen culti? Sage or Demon? and Why?

opkossy · July 2014

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

Endgame vs endgame I think AS11 is better, especially if you equip jones blessing before using it.

This. It's much easier to get attack levels than defense levels and in an endgame battle, having AS11 take them into account gives more potential damage than having AS10 which would ignore them.

CapnK - Sanctuary · July 2014

ixmeepxi wrote: »

Of those commenting, what is your chosen culti? Sage or Demon? and Why?

I went Demon for two reasons:

1) I designed my mystic after the character Matthew Patel from Scott Pilgrim vs the World, and he is a bad guy who summons demon hipster chicks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pybfbTZCTSM

2) It annoys MysticBoob who thinks that Sage is the one true culti.

I don't regret going Demon. I get a lot of mileage out of the five-minute Falling Petals, full life Resurrect, and the faster channeling combos from demon spark and Rapid Growth. Only thing I'm jelly of Sage for is the extra chi on Nature's Vengeance.

Zoldi - Morai · July 2014

ixmeepxi wrote: »

Of those commenting, what is your chosen culti? Sage or Demon? and Why?

When I chose to be sage, i think 95% of the mystics on my server were demon. Especially because of thicket and falling petals which are indeed more interesting when demon. Another "urban legend" was that demon mystics would deal more damage (people were kinda saying demon for pvp, sage for pve. Or demon for DD, sage for healing, which is non sense). I did some maths and was not sure about that. And I liked sage verdant shell, the mastery bonus and the chi generation from NV (amongst other things)
So I went sage despite a lot of mystics laughing. Then I became R9 and the damage bonus from sage was totally obvious. Now with R9.3, cards, meridians, nuemas, reawakenings,... 900+mag points... I almost don't understand how a mystic (with endgame gears) can prefer the demon path...

And if I look on my server now, I would say that 80% of the Mystics (especially R9.3 ones) are sage.

I even know two R9.3 mystics that chose to leave demon for sage then thank me (dunno anyone that went from sage to demon)

Eoria - Harshlands · July 2014

I still prefer demon over sage. Only thing I actually want out of sage culti is that purify chance on BitC, but I can deal.

Zoldi - Morai · July 2014

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

I still prefer demon over sage. Only thing I actually want out of sage culti is that purify chance on BitC, but I can deal.

Purif on BitC is OP even if stressful. I did several times Toad (fsp) with another sage mystic, no cleric, no psychic and not OP team (with an OP team you kill it too fast so just need to rely on triple spark).

But I'm very surprised that no demon mystic seems to miss the damage bonus from being sage.

CapnK - Sanctuary · July 2014

Well the damage bonus is more significant now with the Primal crit% passives; that is certainly a point in Sage's favor. But in practical terms it's not a major difference in damage. Demon is still casting spells faster when sparked, which evens it out.

I lose to sage mystic at Tiger event/City of Abominations. But I don't lose by much.

ixmeepxi · July 2014

I have highly considered switching to Sage just for the Verdant Shell, But I've grown so fond of my thicket, petals, rapid growth. That extra channeling really helps take down some targets. As mentioned before, the only real mystic that posts videos is themysticboob, and being sage his playstyle looks very defensive. Now take in mind, My main is a 55kHP sage barb. I am not looking to be tankier :P I want to deal damage so that is why I chose demon.

Zoldi - Morai · July 2014

ixmeepxi wrote: »

I want to deal damage so that is why I chose demon.

Ok, but according to me sage mystics deal more damage than demon ones when talking about endgame gear

I personaly have more than 50k base attack so the mastery bonus is really significant. And don't you use NV most of the time ? For sage it means more chi so more triple sparking.
I never played a demon mystic so of course I can't really compare myself. But I had this good friend who played a demon mystic on RT. Then he came on Morai and got an R9.3 mystic. He chose the demon path once again and was the only mystic I know who had deity stones (not full, "just" 8 I think, not 100% sure though and maybe it was only DoT, nevermind) We had long discussion and he finally switched to sage. After that he was not talking that much about survivability, he was talking about dealing more damage... He was missing falling petals a lot though...

I think it's gonna depend on the context and how play the opponents. But I don't get why demon mystics are considered more offensive. Just because of channeling or crits?

Mysticboob - Sanctuary · July 2014

Demon mystics are more offensive in 1v1 scenarios. Sage mystics are not only more defensive but deal more damage in mass pvp because they stay alive longer and the damage bonus reins over channeling since aoes and non sparked/rapidgrowth attacks are spammed more.

I wouldn't judge sage on my nw videos. I choose to do map objectives in those, so i'm going to to be super defensive. If i was just trolling kills and ignoring flags/digs/towers i imagine the videos would be a lot shorter because everyone else also likes to do that, and we would lose pretty fast.

Eoria - Harshlands · July 2014

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

I think it's gonna depend on the context and how play the opponents. But I don't get why demon mystics are considered more offensive. Just because of channeling or crits?

It's the channeling, crit, and probably Demon Thicket though Thicket hasn't been able to kill people for awhile now and is used for AOE CC.

Also, aoes should be spammed about evenly on sage and demon. Both cultis are excellent at getting chi, but it's like sage cleric vs. demon cleric where sage cleric gets their chi from attacking mostly whereas demon cleric gets it passively via healing/buffs/saves on chi from plume shell and purify. The sage myst will have more chi when playing a DD role while the demon myst will have more chi when playing a support role.

tbh, both cultis work just fine.

ksfe · July 2014

mystics at full end game +12 is pretty good, but lacks the damage compared to other mage classes. i did sum fourms on that. but yeah. like the bm said. you gotta setup how you're gonna use your chi. but besides the lack of damage mystics are the most fun class to play. they dont depend on other classes and becauz they can switch btw pvp or pve they're needing in both for support or DDb:chuckle mystics r d best class in pwi for playstyle.

Xaner - Dreamweaver · July 2014

Mystics are indeed a fun class, A class i am known at being good at and therefore have r9r3 +10.
Although my wep is only +10... I have been doing many 1v1s and the main problem i keep encountering is my lack of damage on everyone else that is +10 (Mainly seekers/sins) (Although i do 1v1 fully buffed vs fully buffed.) Now.. These seekers/sins are +12 wep. And in time they get enough lucky zerk crits that i die (Though i can tank them for hours)]

Also as a mystic, I am demon. BUT I do have a sage mystic aswell. Now... My sage mystic could get like... 3-4k more phy def than me but actually had way less DD power....

This is being based on bosses. I can kill all the bh abba,sot,puppet boss in 1 3 spark with befuddling creeper-nature veng-3 spark-rapid growth(I am now at -99% channel)-absorb soul-storm dance-absorb soul-nature veng-absorb soul-swirling mist. By that time boss is dead.

Although sage mystics do get chi by spamming nature veng, Nature veng is not your strongest pve attack. In order for a sage to do my combo, they have to use apo, I can use apo to use white tea and deal so much more damage.

As a demon mystic in TW, My squad is better off with me as healer than some sage mystic. Sure sage mystics have a purify. BUT i have a 5min falling petals that a person can have and be safe with. And because i am healing/DDing i will have much more chi than some sage mystic only healing and throwing out aoes. Now... I do see some scenarios where a op sage mystic will do better than a sage.
For example, PG_Junior, (A +12 lvl 80 S card mystic in dreamweaver) Can pull a cata and spam heal himself and give himself so many purifys which may in turn save him.
Rather a demon mystic might not get that much needed purify, A mystic will have more chi to 3 spark and stand there with cata for 3 extra seconds and cast falling petals and get a 35k heals.

Zoldi - Morai · July 2014

Xaner - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Although my wep is only +10... I have been doing many 1v1s and the main problem i keep encountering is my lack of damage on everyone else that is +10 (Mainly seekers/sins) (Although i do 1v1 fully buffed vs fully buffed.) Now.. These seekers/sins are +12 wep. And in time they get enough lucky zerk crits that i die (Though i can tank them for hours)]

Due to new passives 1v1 endgame are meant to last long... If the opponent use apoth or maybe defensive charms you feel you lack damage but well... as I said elsewhere a wizard will probably struggle as well... (I'm not saying mystics are best DD than wizzies in PVP though but I don't think wizzies kill any huge target really more easily in 1v1, so mystics can't complain)

Xaner - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Also as a mystic, I am demon. BUT I do have a sage mystic aswell. Now... My sage mystic could get like... 3-4k more phy def than me but actually had way less DD power....

This is being based on bosses. I can kill all the bh abba,sot,puppet boss in 1 3 spark with befuddling creeper-nature veng-3 spark-rapid growth(I am now at -99% channel)-absorb soul-storm dance-absorb soul-nature veng-absorb soul-swirling mist. By that time boss is dead.

You have two R9.3 mystics with +10gears and same kind of avatars, nuemas, meridians, ... ? Oo
What kind of buffs do you have when killing pupeeter ? What you describe seems really fast so I'm kinda surprised.

Xaner - Dreamweaver · July 2014

This was tested before i got r9r3 and used tradeable g16... And althought i was 1st rebirth, My sage mystic only had about 20 less magiv. (I tried soloing puppet with sage because it had more def thus less charm tick from the 9k dmg bleed, [as g16]). And both nuemas were lvl 1... demon has 2nd open and sage had like... 1 1/2. Damage difference for demon/sage was like 7k.. Alot more once i focused on demon.

But thats not the point..., Although sage do get chi fast... Demons can compensate with genie/apo.... As a demon i can 3 spark 3 times in a row with devil chihyu leech at the start and deal much more damage than sage. But, also on sage i can also 3 spark leech devil chihyu, but instead of using cloud eruption i can frenzy and ep, or instead of use chi apo, i can use instant cast apo.

Mysticboob - Sanctuary · July 2014

I can kill all the bh abba,sot,puppet boss in 1 3 spark with befuddling creeper-nature veng-3 spark-rapid growth(I am now at -99% channel)-absorb soul-storm dance-absorb soul-nature veng-absorb soul-swirling mist. By that time boss is dead.

This seems weird to me. Even with a +12 weapon, killing puppet in 7 hits as you describe is sketchy. I'll ask a demon mystic to try this tomorrow, or find some zooming thunder, and test it.

As far as killing endgame toons, I hope we're all talking about +12 armour and ornies with jades and nice cards, because getting past buffs and charms without purge and/or strong debuffs is pretty impossible, unless they're AFK.
I can't really comment on killing lesser geared (+10) atm because it's not really a fight- it's a charm tick> lock > burst dd. Unless you're fighting another mystic, in which case you ignore them and hope they're silly enough to leave their devil spam attacking you for free procs.

Zoldi - Morai · July 2014

Mysticboob - Sanctuary wrote: »

This seems weird to me. Even with a +12 weapon, killing puppet in 7 hits as you describe is sketchy. I'll ask a demon mystic to try this tomorrow, or find some zooming thunder, and test it.

Same... I killed it hundreds of time (and am now 105-105-103 with more than 900 mag points, with +12 weapon and so on) but it seems so fast... Maybe I'm wrong when saying sage have more damage power but it's weird if demon mystics can kill it that fast (even if I don't use any apoth/genie when doing it)

Mysticboob - Sanctuary wrote: »

As far as killing endgame toons, I hope we're all talking about +12 armour and ornies with jades and nice cards, because getting past buffs and charms without purge and/or strong debuffs is pretty impossible, unless they're AFK.

That was my point. And this is not just related to mystics. This is the same for most classes.

CapnK - Sanctuary · July 2014

Tried his combo. I'm only 89% channeling but I got the whole thing off before Rapid Growth expired. It only did half of Puppeteer's life. This is with +12 weapon, 794 magic, and good cards. So yeah I'm gonna have to call BS on that one. b:bye

Xaner - Dreamweaver · July 2014

Tried the combo again on the three bosses,
BH Abba dies in combo,
BH SoT gets 3/4 in combo,
Puppet also gets down to 570k... which is about 3/4.. Mind you i am only r9r3 +10 wep with only 800 magic.

"I can kill all the bh abba,sot,puppet boss in 1 3 spark with befuddling creeper-nature veng-3 spark-rapid growth(I am now at -99% channel)-absorb soul-storm dance-absorb soul-nature veng-absorb soul-swirling mist"

Should only be bh abba boss and get other bosses down to 3/4 hp ;x, I do infact get double bleed in puppet.

Zoldi - Morai · July 2014

May I ask my question a second time? Which buffs on you ?
(A video would be great if you know someone who can go with you to record it)

And you can do only this combo without healing you at all ? Maybe i did underestimate demons but the difference wouldn't be that big so it sounds weird (especially if no other demon mystic can confirm it)

Xaner - Dreamweaver · July 2014

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

May I ask my question a second time? Which buffs on you ?
(A video would be great if you know someone who can go with you to record it)

And you can do only this combo without healing you at all ? Maybe i did underestimate demons but the difference wouldn't be that big so it sounds weird (especially if no other demon mystic can confirm it)

If you make a lvl 1 female veno ill fly it over to hell.... And i have falling petals at the start... and i am fully buffed w/ pills

Change of play.

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