PWI: State of Economy

Djcale - Raging Tide
Djcale - Raging Tide Posts: 30 Arc User
edited July 2014 in General Discussion
So this is kinda f***ed up!
Things are way too expensive. I'm not going to make this a long OP and go into the maths and economics but yeah I mean... this was always a F2P P2W game and I was always happy about that. But now the proportion of the game that is P2W is much greater than that which is F2P which was not always the case.

At the end of the day this is a business and I fully understand that, but right now cash shoppers are not exactly getting more out of their money are they? Like yeah the game favours them/us (I am one) but did they not already have that advantage when gold was 1m?

The thing that makes the least sense to me is this: the supply of gold that is generated in this game is dependant on the cash shoppers of which there is essentially an ample amount or the game would essentially cease to exist and PWI would close down lol.
On the other hand, coins can only be generated in game by monster drops, quest rewards and NPCing items. Other than these major few ways there is not much else and the supply of coin is pretty low right? I mean even if it somehow made any sort of difference that an in game bot was introduced increasing the supply of monster drop and NPC generated coin, its still not really significant compared to the supply of gold generated especially when most coin ends up being eaten up by gold trading! Not only this, but they took away DQ points so now botting is worth less for the time spent doing it.

So if the supply of coin is relatively lower than the supply of gold, how is it that gold is so expensive and coins are so worthless?

If you're going to inflate an economy you need to inflate peoples earnings or you essentially starve your people. This is how I feel a lot of the PWI community feel. There needs to be more focus in balancing this than balancing classes (because it doesnt seem like you're doing a whole lot about that anyway.)

I propose much greater coin monster drops and NPC item prices to go up too. People shouldnt have to put so much effort into a game just to be able to play it. And by playing it what i mean is: make continual upgrades to your character hence why most people who get end game get bored and quit since they completed the game and at the start you're basically given a wooden stick and sent to fend for yourself.

Not just this but it's kind of getting boring these updates, dont you think? I mean starting with morai all that's been introduced that's new to the game is dailies and daily instances. Why not bring out a non daily instance with a reasonable coin rewar- OH WAIT wasn't that called DELTA?!

Have a little respect for your customer base PWI! It would serve you well.

Discuss away.
Post edited by Djcale - Raging Tide on
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Comments

  • SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear
    SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear Posts: 703 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I say this game runs on the in game farmer because if no one bought gold from the lazy people who spend real cash then the gold would be useless.So we in game farmers keep this game rolling and have been since day freakin one.
  • hypereccentrik
    hypereccentrik Posts: 529 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Pffft. Who needs the economy?
    Get some friends, level up in ff, go farm tt, then nw, then warsong, last but not least farm weeklies for those level 10 gems!
    There you have it general overview of gearing up without the market.

    That was assuming you werent planning on going rank 9 and/ or planning on being hardcore 1vs 1 pvper
  • anaovt1
    anaovt1 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I believe the reason gold prices are up so much is the bot. By increasing the amount of coin in the game, they drove up gold prices by offering more for gold. It's simple. Take out the bot, it'll drop back down. Increasing gold drops is only going to make it worse.
    Camlyra-Raging Tides. Since the avatar is broken.

    Cleric 103/103/102
    Seeker 102/102/101
    Wizard 101/101/101
    Psychic 102/99
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited June 2014
    The more coins that are in game, the less valuable coin itself becomes.

    What we need are more coin sinks that are worth using so that the value of coin increases. Not an easier time generating coin as that causes the value of coin to decrease. Ever since the bot came to our version, this has become even more blatantly obvious than it used to be.
    (Insert fancy image here)
    image
  • $picylovah - Sanctuary
    $picylovah - Sanctuary Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I agree with Kossy 'Powerless' Wossy!

    thats why I hereby sell Kossy ''DayumGurl'' Wossy to the public, she'll wear any in game fashion you want for 100m/minute b:pleased

    10% of which goes to charity of ur own choosing!!!!!!!!
    10% goes to Kossy ''ShakeThatMoneymaker'' Wossy
    80% goes to me, n ill be sure to throw it in the river

    b:thanks
    IGN: qontroL b:thanks

    Im so mean, I make medicine sick b:angry
  • HideYoHubby - Archosaur
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    OPKossy wrote: »
    The more coins that are in game, the less valuable coin itself becomes.

    What we need are more coin sinks that are worth using so that the value of coin increases. Not an easier time generating coin as that causes the value of coin to decrease. Ever since the bot came to our version, this has become even more blatantly obvious than it used to be.

    Few hundread million option to turn pan gu into LUaD. There, several tens of billions gone per server. Not that its gonna be long term solution but if the company wasnt as greedy as it is, there could be coin sinks which would be worth using.
    __Sami__ - Archer - 105/103/102 - mypers.pw/1.8/#132088 - Active
    HideYoHubby - Assassin - 105/101/101 - Inactive
    WnbTank - Barbarian - 103/101/101 - Catshop
  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I don't think you can just blame botting and walk away like you know it all. I have only been back a few months but what I know is:

    PWI sales are no longer what they were.
    Not nearly as many gold sellers on the server causes high demand. I used to put in to buy my gold and get it within an hour or 2. Now I put in and it probably in 12-24 hours.

    Take the last Ocean sale @ 50g each.
    Gold was just under $3m = about $140m per orb.

    Now let's say that PWI ran the sales they used to.

    Ocean orb = 30g or 4/100g.
    Gold hits $4m capped= $120m per orb or $100m



    Sale price has A LOT do with cost of items. PWI manipulates it. Botting contributes but not nearly as much as all you portray.
  • theemerald
    theemerald Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Dont forget the dumb merchants that are just trying to out bid everyone else and just raise the price on product to make the profits instead of trying to get the lowest bid and generate faster profits.

    Dumbdumb merchants i tell ya, just dumb!
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    While gold is currency to buy best items in boutique, coins are currency to buy worse items from NPC.
  • Sevchenko - Dreamweaver
    Sevchenko - Dreamweaver Posts: 661 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    While gold is currency to buy best items in boutique, coins are currency to buy worse items from NPC.

    ^ THIS is the problem.

    There is NOTHING useful to be bought with coins. Everything you can buy with coins are, the same items from gshop which will be paid to another player, these coins will probably jump other 3 or 4 times before leaving the game (someone uses them to pay NPC fee for something).
    [S.E.V.C.H.E.N.K.O]
    Synthetic Electronic Variant Calibrated for Hazardous Exploration, Nullification and Kamikaze Observation[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Seriously...guys. This game is more F2P then ever before. Anything casual (meaning Nirvana Tier 3 aka G16 gears and weaps) is cheap as heck. Anyone can achieve full g16 with good ornaments and decent refine (+5 all over at least) without spending a dime in this game. That gear would be more then sufficient for PvE.

    It's only Pay2Win if you wanna fight others and then its just like rl. You cant beat your neighbors lamborghini with your little old 98' Ford. Some ppl spend a fortune of time and or money into this game and get an advantage for it. A imho useless advantage cuz most of then could easily be beat on equal terms and for thats all that matters.

    This game can still be fun and the economy is great especially for causal cashers. Gold prices are high so you practically need to spend around 50 bucks and get your g16 gears in no time.

    Nothing wrong with that as it perfectly displays our rl economy in so many points xD its funny.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • Chrisssss - Sanctuary
    Chrisssss - Sanctuary Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    This is a funked up situation because ever since the days where Packs where intoduced where you could easily obtine Lunar equip it's been a downward spiral for the game in general. To the point now where I've never seen so many charge rewards in a short amount of time. The content and class balancing isn't really a probablem as is the out of control trolls who sky rocket the price of gold and pwi staff who keeps inflating boutique prices. Some Packs are 88 gold for a 100 with an extra reward and same % rate as a packs you could buy for 34 gold?

    Essentally I think best solution is to cap gold prices and give people more for their money and for the love of God update your farming content like Vana.

    Just some general ideas I think the game is in a deep hole to the point where people don't want to charge hince the charge rewards. Overall it's kind of a damn shame imo because this game is a lot of fun......

    Good luck staff
    Joe - Morai wrote: »
    Seriously...guys. This game is more F2P then ever before. Anything casual (meaning Nirvana Tier 3 aka G16 gears and weaps) is cheap as heck. Anyone can achieve full g16 with good ornaments and decent refine (+5 all over at least) without spending a dime in this game. That gear would be more then sufficient for PvE.

    It's only Pay2Win if you wanna fight others and then its just like rl. You cant beat your neighbors lamborghini with your little old 98' Ford. Some ppl spend a fortune of time and or money into this game and get an advantage for it. A imho useless advantage cuz most of then could easily be beat on equal terms and for thats all that matters.

    This game can still be fun and the economy is great especially for causal cashers. Gold prices are high so you practically need to spend around 50 bucks and get your g16 gears in no time.

    Nothing wrong with that as it perfectly displays our rl economy in so many points xD its funny.

    I see what you are saying but I don't think you really remember the golden age of tw, for me personally I wish everyone faction had the same chances to win a season. On all server it seems their just 1-2 dom faction. Although the rewards arn't good for winning a season it's the point of fighting a 3 hr long fight with your faction mates using a group strategy rather than a head on pvp like NW.

    The casual player would appreiciate a good tw imo because most players seem to enjoy nw but the prob is A) you need a good core group of ppl B) Good number of people with good gear
  • anaovt1
    anaovt1 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Joe - Morai wrote: »
    Seriously...guys. This game is more F2P then ever before. Anything casual (meaning Nirvana Tier 3 aka G16 gears and weaps) is cheap as heck. Anyone can achieve full g16 with good ornaments and decent refine (+5 all over at least) without spending a dime in this game. That gear would be more then sufficient for PvE.

    Soooo not true. I'm still in TT90 as a rb. Because I can't afford any of the mats to make tt99, let alone t3. I haven't spent any gold on selling or anything that's gear-related (I spent a bit on fash...). It's impossible to get anywhere without putting in either a ridiculous amount of farming time, which is very hard to do without the endgame gears, or a lot of money.
    Camlyra-Raging Tides. Since the avatar is broken.

    Cleric 103/103/102
    Seeker 102/102/101
    Wizard 101/101/101
    Psychic 102/99
  • Chrisssss - Sanctuary
    Chrisssss - Sanctuary Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    anaovt1 wrote: »
    Soooo not true. I'm still in TT90 as a rb. Because I can't afford any of the mats to make tt99, let alone t3. I haven't spent any gold on selling or anything that's gear-related (I spent a bit on fash...). It's impossible to get anywhere without putting in either a ridiculous amount of farming time, which is very hard to do without the endgame gears, or a lot of money.

    This is a good point also; if your brand new to the game it's gonna be a lot harder for people to obtain even TT gear because unlike players like me whose been around forever had the oppurtunity to do daily TT's.

    The point is to bring in new players not make it harder for them to enjoy all aspects of the game without spending a **** load of irl money. Defeats the purpose of F2P right?
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Joe - Morai wrote: »
    ...This game is more F2P then ever before.... so you practically need to spend around 50 bucks and get your g16 gears in no time.

    ...

    Pay to play not mean F2P...
    Also to get some level 89 Demon skills Wizard need dozens millions of coins.

    It is not free to play.
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Chrisssss - Sanctuary wrote: »
    This is a good point also; if your brand new to the game it's gonna be a lot harder for people to obtain even TT gear because unlike players like me whose been around forever had the oppurtunity to do daily TT's.

    The point is to bring in new players not make it harder for them to enjoy all aspects of the game without spending a **** load of irl money. Defeats the purpose of F2P right?

    I dont really get what you mean. Do you guys really think it would be great to put a few hours into that game and boom you're done with gears? I really think the most PWI players are just first-timers in terms of MMORPGs. Take the most famous P2P mmorpg (you know which one I'm talk8ng about but you can pretty much take any recent p2p one) and look how much friggin time is need to get your gears there. Surely. Some ppl can max their chars there from scratch in a week or so. A week of minimum 10 hours of gameplay each day and thats if they are lucky and very experienced.

    We dont have raids consisting 30 ppl in PWI where you work your **** of for several hours only to get jack at the end. Compared to that pwi is simple as heck.

    Ok here's a strategy that will work 100%:

    You start off a fresh char. Lvl it close to 80 and do the jones dailies until you have enough money for 3 golds and a like g15 weap (30-40m(roll a second char if its taking too long and always take any event you can)). Then once you reach lvl100 buy an autopot stone for a month and just bot 24/7 a month. Then you will have enough money for full g16 without doing anything practically.

    Sooo hard.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Joe - Morai wrote: »
    ...
    You start off a fresh char. Lvl it close to 80 and do the jones dailies until you have enough money for 3 golds and a like g15 weap (30-40m(roll a second char if its taking too long and always take any event you can)). Then once you reach lvl100 buy an autopot stone for a month and just bot 24/7 a month. Then you will have enough money for full g16 without doing anything practically.

    Sooo hard.

    I have 1 character already - Wizard 92.
    And second character already - Cleric level 85+.

    Why I need third character ?

    I want to play game, not work 24/7 like some idiot.

    Edit:
    Also I have not extra computer to give for pwi (24/7) bot.
  • purechaosbaby87
    purechaosbaby87 Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    who the *&%$ pays for g16, ok 2 weeks of nw, thats 4 nw's i had enough raps/cannies to make g15 TT based. once i was in full g15 it took me 2 weeks of farming ws to get the molds and badges to make g16. only mold that i had a hard time getting was my AA hat mold, got that on a bh lunar run. if you are lazy enough to just buy g16 you have no place here in pwi, paying for gear doesn't make you a good player, it makes you a fail player, and this economy has made 99% of players lazy and fail characters. most people here don't even know about gamma, let alone that fc use to have drops like TT, and now thanks to botting, and being lazy, most new ppl will have no clue what TT is except that its a bh 100 place. Bring back bh WS, get rid of bh eu. having bh's where you just stand there makes no sense, it encourages lazyness!b:angry
  • Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721
    Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721 Posts: 651 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    purechaosbaby87 wrote: »
    Bring back bh WS, get rid of bh eu. having bh's where you just stand there makes no sense, it encourages lazyness!b:angry

    Kitty would promote this change. At least BH Snake encouraged ppl to learn their class a bit by giving a good time for trying pavs without stressing about consequences of failing. Snake also hit enough hard to make bad/crapgeared ppl die to aoe. Not to mention those lovely 2h BHs when there was only 2 good players in squad and rest failed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Final ragequit on 21/02/2014 'cause ARC. Back on 15/04/2014, RL was bored.
    Ten Paths of Kittyness(old mains when deleted): Kittysama 100(100) Sage HA-Venomancer |Aivina 100(101) Sage (ex-Zerk) Str. Seeker | Kittytart 90(101) Demon All path Zerk BM | KittyFishie 92(101) Demon APS/DPH Zerk Assassin | Haroin 100(100) Demon Vit. Zerk Barbarian | Elfborn 82(100) Demon Cleric | Pessimiste 85(100) Sage Wizard | PalavaEnkeli 87(100) Demon Fist/APS-Archer | VerenVanki 85(100) Demon Mystic | MerenPeto 85(100) Sage Psychic
    Current mains: Old psy and 19 new/recreated mains(avg. level 82)
  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    This is in reply to people who say they can't farm things, or it takes too long, or you need money to start playing this. PWI is not F2P until endgame and beyond. There are 2 rules that will help you out in any game and life.

    1) Knowledge is power

    2) It's all in the mind

    If you follow the above, you will learn pretty quickly if you like pwi or not. If you don't, give up on it, no point in wasting your time, breath, brain cells QQ'ing about it.

    If you like it, you will find a way to get better at it.

    Only time i ever find an excuse to complain is to get more knowledge. For example, "dude playing this game is so hard, i can not beat these mobs/bosses, my gear is bad, what should i do?" People like Joe will tell you what they do from their experience. Listen to a few of these players, try these things out, and settle on what suits you.

    As Kossy said, coin value is meaningless in pwi right now. If there are no coin sinks, people will think, hmmm i have 10m, let's buy gold at 3m, and get an auto pot for 3 gold. They value their coin at 3m. But if there are coin sinks, and people are forced to make choices, they will say, "hmmmm i have 10m, but i will only buy gold at 2m, i will use my 4m for another coin sink i have been saving for" what do you know, gold price goes to 2m.

    If you think pwi manipulates the gold prices, look up "helicopter drop of cash" theory in money supply.
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »
    This is in reply to people who say they can't farm things, or it takes too long, or you need money to start playing this. PWI is not F2P until endgame and beyond. There are 2 rules that will help you out in any game and life ...
    Sorry, but I play game right now, which not force me to PvP in nw to get gear, necessary to play game.

    And every quest give rewards, which are more than enough to continue game.

    I can't say it about pwi, where exist choose between pay to play or not play at all.
  • Brandina - Sanctuary
    Brandina - Sanctuary Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    purechaosbaby87 wrote: »
    who the *&%$ pays for g16, ok 2 weeks of nw, thats 4 nw's i had enough raps/cannies to make g15 TT based. once i was in full g15 it took me 2 weeks of farming ws to get the molds and badges to make g16. only mold that i had a hard time getting was my AA hat mold, got that on a bh lunar run. if you are lazy enough to just buy g16 you have no place here in pwi, paying for gear doesn't make you a good player, it makes you a fail player, and this economy has made 99% of players lazy and fail characters. most people here don't even know about gamma, let alone that fc use to have drops like TT, and now thanks to botting, and being lazy, most new ppl will have no clue what TT is except that its a bh 100 place. Bring back bh WS, get rid of bh eu. having bh's where you just stand there makes no sense, it encourages lazyness!b:angry
    Well that describes about every R999 player, I would say most of them spent real world money for that gear. In reality very little about this game is about skill. Its about who has the best stats, second to this is knowing how to play that class. Unless the game removes locking and follows the path of action rpgs where you actually have to manually aim it could never be about skill.
    From a pay to play stand point it is cheaper to sell gold in the auction house and buy tokens, plats, or tells from cats then it is to buy them from the cash shop. Which is something that I never understood about people that merchant cash shop items. For an example, lets say you bought a pack of 20 safari scrolls. that would cost $9.50. You would get 300 tokens minus the few packs that yielded a prize, so maybe 260 tokens. Now consider that on sanctuary coins are trading for 3.5-3.7 million coins. From a coin to gold perspective (using 3.5m) the cash shopper spent 33.25m for about 300 tokens. If tokens really reflected gold prices they would cost 111k each, but so far they been hovering around 27-30k.
    Probably the easiest fix for the current too many coins from culti problems would to set some limitations on it like hypers and reflection. I mean a 6 hour limit doesn't seem unreasonable. And while they are at, they need to do something about kill steals, god forbid you get the morai prison key quest and there is a archer on auto culti in the area.
  • alphasinbm
    alphasinbm Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    lol nothing will ever be done about this. Why do you people waste your time even thinking about solutions.
  • Evryn - Morai
    Evryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Bring back bh WS, get rid of bh eu. having bh's where you just stand there makes no sense, it encourages lazyness!
    Why -does- everyone just stand around in EU? So long as you remain between the two mirrors that you need to carry the gem between, you can freely move both before and after delivering the gem.
    Rarely do I see anyone complete the Jadehalo requirements to get that extra damage buff - which is surprising when you'll be fighting a bunch of high hitpoint bosses next. I know I always try to on my BM (usually on Theta, so I got some time to kill while the rest sorts out their deliveries).
    I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.

    Ulsyr 103/103/104 BM. Working on the last R9 part (Axe).
    Khelvan 103/103/103 LA Cler. LA? LA. Deal with it.
    Evryn 103/102/101 Sagely Mystical Myst of Mystiness.
    Gromth 102/102/102 Sage Panda.
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  • Mattiks - Dreamweaver
    Mattiks - Dreamweaver Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Dang, the OP beat me to posting this kind of thread. I've been trying to think of the best way to word this type of post, but no time for that now I guess.

    Anyways, here's what's up. Have you ever heard the story of the boiling frog? The story of the boiling frog is a widespread anecdote describing a frog slowly being boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is placed directly into a pot of boiling water it will jump out, but if it is placed into a pot of cold water that is slowly heated it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability or unwillingness of people to react to significant changes that occur gradually.

    We've been in the pot for a while now with PWI turning up the heat and we are finally beginning to feel the burn. However most of us, myself included, are having a very difficult time jumping out because of our love for the game. Players have been trying to pinpoint the exact cause of this inflation, and pondering upon the best possible solutions. A few of you guys have seen what's really going on; keep reading and you'll know who you are.

    The economy is in its current state entirely by design. In other words, the PWI Management are doing this on purpose. Let's face it, the game has run its course. A lot of people blame botting, they're are not entirely wrong, but botting was simply designed as a tool to quicken the process. This kind of treatment of the community is nothing but intentional, and there is nothing we can do about it.

    This kind of treatment hits everyone in different ways. The new players really have no clue how bad it is. But these days, it's so incredibly difficult to start a new character from scratch that most just end up quitting and most likely live out their PWI dreams in a private server. But the players that are really affected the most by the inflation seem to be the players that have been around a while and are somewhat loyal, with kind of "upper middle class" gear. These are the players that have stuck through the hard times and made the most of a bad situation. Those players especially don't deserve the kinds of price increases we are seeing now, as most of the people at that level got there by primarily farming everything. I know you the managers might not play, but to give an idea to someone who knows nothing of the current state: Just last year, Jades of Steady Defense, considered by many to be the best of the best, most bang for the buck in game sharding choice where about 100mil each. A full set of 24 Jades ran about 2.4bil, roughly. Right now, Jades are 360mil each. That is a stunning 8.64bil. Over a matter of months, we've seen a 6.24bil increase in the most endgame shards. It's not even worth it more, it's just ridiculous and stupid. They aren't simply aren't worth that much, but people don't care. Great for the company, awful for the games longevity.

    PWE has obviously made a fortune off of the cash flow from this game. I mean look at them now, running so many games, so many more promising titles all built upon good business sense and PWI flagship's players. They don't need this game to sustain their business anymore. It's not like we legally have any say so, or will get any compensation for the money lost. For this exact reason, the Terms of Service clearly state that we don't even own our accounts. I hate to say it really, and hate to repeat it more, but it truly seems like PWE wants to kill this game. The scary thing is, they are actually in a comfortable position to terminate these servers any time now. What would it feel like to have it all be over at the drop of a hat?

    It's really sad because I've truly come to love this game unlike any other because it was modeled so that the gain and accomplishment felt so good. I also made a lot of awesome friends so I'll stay on this sinking ship. Heck, maybe I'll write a song about it that will launch my music career :D.

    Sorry to ramble, but this type of economic crisis we are experiencing can only be remedied through a managerial decision. I'm really not sure how it works. Maybe there are factors in play out of their control, like pressure from China or price increases on new content. However they aren't obligated to run this game forever. All we can really do is plea with them to stop killing the game we love. How? Reintroducing DQ Rewards is a start. Ultimately though, botting would have to be removed. It has only acted as an accelerant added to a building already engulfed in flames. And with it in place, the structural integrity of the economic system will not hold.Another simple thing that can be done is to add other ways of obtaining event items. Not impossibly long, but long enough paths of farming endgame sharding options or other event items. Even better pack chances would be nice. Really, if half of the catshops in west Archosaur are all ran by the same guy who could easily finance a Nuema Portal set, the event item market is obviously screwed. Another step in the right direction is calming yourselves down on sales for a while. Starve us. Remove Catalysts for a while, and S Card chests. Those items should have never been permanent boutique additions. The price of gold is way too high because of these sales. And of course, gold should be capped at 2mil, not 3.9mil. Just some ideas.

    I wish our community manager could do something about this economic crisis. I truly hate to see this game running into the ground. Hopefully sparkie could help out with addressing these issues with honest answers and consider some potential solutions, like the removal of botting. Maybe he can, but I think it may even be over his head. Sparkie, any honest feedback you can give to us would really mean a lot. Please PWE, don't do this to PWI. This game built your company, don't drag it through the dirt.

    Okay, I'm off mah soap box now. Pretty sure I've met my yearly quota for words on forums. Peace.
  • alphasinbm
    alphasinbm Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    What if PWI made NW a daily event. That way solving the inactivity problem, creating a coin sink, increasing the demand of coin by reducing the amount of it due to token forging fees and trade of coins and token rewards.

    Sorted.
    Now do it.
  • Selak - Dreamweaver
    Selak - Dreamweaver Posts: 462 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    This is a personal opinion,
    I think that a lot of the normal coin sinks were nullified with the ability to bypass parts of the game, as an example before crafting books were added to the boutique, I could earn just about enough coin/mats from normal questing to cover the costs needed to craft all the things needed to progress, but not all the costs.

    It acted as a long term coin sink, also when I got to 100 and was ready to sink an awful lot of time and coin into getting the mats needed for my next level gear through Nirvana they bought in NW, and in my opinion, lost a large amount of coin going to coin sinks from me, as I was able to achieve my next level of gear in a matter of 2 months not 6-8 months as planned, and at a much lower cost to me and therefore less of a coin sink to them.

    For money to flow through this game correctly all activities should cost slightly more than you can earn in game harvesting mats and coin so players are encouraged to add zen to make up the deficit, that then suggests using/allowing bots, is not healthy for the game and there also needs to be more coin sinks like crafting and Nirvana were.

    I know some people think, you should be able to complete the game by just using the in game mats and coin, but then i have to ask, if we all did that who pays for the server costs?
    There are old Warriors, and bold Warriors,
    but there are very few old bold Warriors. b:chuckle
  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    alphasinbm wrote: »
    What if PWI made NW a daily event. That way solving the inactivity problem, creating a coin sink, increasing the demand of coin by reducing the amount of it due to token forging fees and trade of coins and token rewards.

    Sorted.
    Now do it.

    Assume

    I get 200 tokens per NW. Current that is 400 NW per week.

    I would be getting 1400 NW tokens with your idea.

    I need 85 sow, that is 3 weeks of constant NW. I spend 100m, i get r9 new ring.

    People who only sell NW stuff due to having gear done, let's see what they do. Day 1 they make 4 sow, no one buys it. Day 2 they make 4 more. After a week they have 28 SOW. Multiply that by 100 players. In one week you have 280 sow on the market and no one is buying them from their shops.

    What do you do when people don't buy things? Usually you reduce the price. Sow will effectively drop to cost price.

    When NW stops making money for people, they stop doing nw. Those who do it, will get 600~1.3k nw tokens on average if not more. Basically attending NW for a week or so will get you all the SOW for your gear, for all NW pieces when only 20~100 people do it.

    If you remove the fees, you can basically upgrade your gear for free.

    So does that sound like a coin sink?

    Sorted
    Now think about it.
  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    First of... just wow Mattiks brilliantly well written statement. I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head with the post of yours.
    Joe - Morai wrote: »
    Seriously...guys. This game is more F2P then ever before. Anything casual (meaning Nirvana Tier 3 aka G16 gears and weaps) is cheap as heck. Anyone can achieve full g16 with good ornaments and decent refine (+5 all over at least) without spending a dime in this game. That gear would be more then sufficient for PvE.

    It's only Pay2Win if you wanna fight others and then its just like rl. You cant beat your neighbors lamborghini with your little old 98' Ford. Some ppl spend a fortune of time and or money into this game and get an advantage for it. A imho useless advantage cuz most of then could easily be beat on equal terms and for thats all that matters.

    This game can still be fun and the economy is great especially for causal cashers. Gold prices are high so you practically need to spend around 50 bucks and get your g16 gears in no time.

    Nothing wrong with that as it perfectly displays our rl economy in so many points xD its funny.

    I do understand your... little analogy and I see the point; however, thanks to NW, they are pretty much 'forcing' us to either pay to be able to stand toe to toe, or we have to sit out until we can stand up to the overpowered people. (Obviously they don't have a gun to our head, but yea... it sucks to have to sit out/feel the 'need' to pay so you can enjoy your character a little bit while the oped have free reign to maul everyone they see.) Nation wars has made this game feel more and more like a pay to win game as the days go by. (Before it I would agree with you... At least with tw/open world pvp, the rewards a lot less... noteworthy, really if NW didn't have such great individual rewards people wouldn't feel pressured as much into buying elite gear.)

    It is essentially like a bunch of 10 second cars having free reign to maul/smoke most other cars out there.
    Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick

    What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)
  • mntainr
    mntainr Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Imo, the game at one point was easier/cheaper then it should have been, by playing it, making coins or buying zen, unless you want r9. There were class imbalance in both playing and making coins, but it was easier to farm/buy things back then compared to now if you were willing to make an aps char. Now, theres more class balance which is more fun to play but the economic imbalance is wider then before if you don't buy zen or have good enough gears.

    As for why gold price is so high, ask yourself this. If you make $500 a week, either by A) making an honest living or B) stealing, are you more likely to buy r9 doing a or b. Theres a number of reason why gold price is so high, but the main cause is because of auto culti. Beside adding more coins into the market, many people that didn't work/sweat for their coins are more willing to part with their coins or pay for higher prices than usuall. Thats also assuming that many of us are not good at judging what a good gold price should be. What this can mean in general is that you have to pay more for something than they are worth, and players that do not auto culti are unnecessarily hit hard.

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