Territory War Reset

trands wrote: »

I think 6 months is a good balance to give a fun period to the smaller factions while also ensuring a fun period to the big TW factions. If you make it shorter, there would be mainly (if not only) small scale battles and victory will become more based on out-bid tactics and such. I like the big battles. I'd prefer the season to be a bit longer, so the weeks cover over half of the map, ensuring a more interesting end result.

4 months will barely be enough to get to the interesting battles. I'm not really interested in being forced to either just wined TW a whole season or join a smaller faction to recreate a NW-like map. I like TW on big scale, with 60+ vs 60+ organized squads, teamwork and tactic. 30vs30 pvp with a cata rolling somewhere and some towers doesn't interest me.

This argument always comes out every time TW resets come around. And while I do understand it, it still rings a little hollow. Because TW is and has always been about the glory/rewards/bragging rights/etc. Therefore, the biggest factions are always going to swallow up the lands of the little factions in hopes of winning the season (not that the season rewards are worth winning) and more money.

And that's fine - that's an acceptable balance. But it does raise the question of why the big factions would care about a 4 month versus 6 month reset, if not for the money. If it was really about interesting fights, there's nothing stopping them from each holding 2-3 lands in the middle of the map and duking it out across each other's borders without even glancing at about the smaller factions. What difference would it make whether it was 4 months or 6 months, if they could get to the "good fights" just as quickly by positioning themselves next to each other at the start?

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This argument always comes out every time TW resets come around. And while I do understand it, it still rings a little hollow. Because TW is and has always been about the glory/rewards/bragging rights/etc. Therefore, the biggest factions are always going to swallow up the lands of the little factions in hopes of winning the season (not that the season rewards are worth winning) and more money.

And that's fine - that's an acceptable balance. But it does raise the question of why the big factions would care about a 4 month versus 6 month reset, if not for the money. If it was really about interesting fights, there's nothing stopping them from each holding 2-3 lands in the middle of the map and duking it out across each other's borders without even glancing at about the smaller factions. What difference would it make whether it was 4 months or 6 months, if they could get to the "good fights" just as quickly by positioning themselves next to each other at the start?

Because that requires the top-tier factions to collectively want that. If one of them wants to just win the season at all costs, they'll just go about their business swallowing the little guys anyway. With a shorter season, the amount of damage that can cause to smaller factions' ability to get decent TW is minimized.

As a strong advocate of smaller-tier TWs on a server where upper-tier TW is all but dead because the top faction has about 2x the firepower of the next three top factions combined, shorter seasons are clearly preferable.

trands wrote: »

That's just poking yourself in the eyes and makes me wonder if you have actually have experience with officer/planning roles in big TW factions.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't, but I don't see how that invalidates my opinion. If anything, it just makes me see TW differently than you do.

trands wrote: »

The big TWs is something you work towards too. On each server there are those big guys loyal to a faction looking for the big fights, those big guys always changing factions, players in process of gearing up, winning team gamblers and less competitive players. With just that 1st group, you will not make a big TW faction. There is a minimum of time needed for all the moving particles on the server to place their bets on the possible competitors and to bet a decent force to oppose the previous number 1.

I get the appeal of intrigue and roster changes, but why do you need 20-30 lands to do it? If each of the top facs had 2-3 lands in the center, just enough to share borders with each other, the establishment of a "previous number 1" can just as easily be established by who wins the most fights between those lands. It won't stop you from being able to bid every week, so you won't have any fewer fights for it. And even if one of the facs decides not to honor the agreement and swallows up more land, what difference does it make? All you're after is a good fight, right? You can do it with one land, if you wanted.

EDIT: I want to clarify that I'm not saying that the top facs shouldn't be allowed or even encouraged to take more land in order to win the season. But if all you want is a good fight, it can happen at any time. So all we're really discussing here is why we need another 2 months before the smaller factions can participate again.

I'd be up for it. At least for a test run and see how it goes.

GreenLegend - Archosaur wrote: »

Aside from TW Faction tactics on how to gain more land, Let's try to stick to the original post at hand as to WHY or WHY NOT a 4 Month Reset would be a good idea or not.

It seems most like the idea of 4 month.

True enough, I guess that I did kinda get side tracked a bit on that part... Lolzzz

My Apologies...

But back to your thread subject >> I actually said yes for the 4 month season (even though I do agree with the other poster on alot of their points) and the reason was a simple-1 "I'd rather see more factions (even the smaller 1's) get more chances for map time in the TWs, because I'd rather fight more random fights (with other newer facs) then always having to face only a handful of Mainstays on the map for a longer period of time (during the 6 month season) the infusion of new blood getting more times to be able to go into TW seems much more lively & entertaining to me, plus its also fairer to the smaller facs, instead of seeing them constantly sidelined from the end of month-2 and beyond throughout the remaining 4 months of the season, while the Uber facs wail away at each other on the then locked up maps"

So I'm for it, if it were to happen... b:thanks

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I get the appeal of intrigue and roster changes, but why do you need 20-30 lands to do it? If each of the top facs had 2-3 lands in the center, just enough to share borders with each other, the establishment of a "previous number 1" can just as easily be established by who wins the most fights between those lands. It won't stop you from being able to bid every week, so you won't have any fewer fights for it. And even if one of the facs decides not to honor the agreement and swallows up more land, what difference does it make? All you're after is a good fight, right? You can do it with one land, if you wanted.

I think you highly underestimate the importance of the moving players and alliances during a season. Getting right next to eachother with the top 2 factions will just declare a winner over the first 1~3 fights, with the edge to the previous TW winner. The core group of a faction won't generate the numbers they put on the field, it's a mix that also includes map presence that makes ppl join a limited number of big TW factions and then the season actually gets interesting imo.

The small factions are just as much after money as the big ones. The main difference between them is that the big TW factions have the organisation and motivated ppl to get to the big scale TW. The small ones just don't, it's not their main interest. I think the map would be covered by 4~5 big factions that just roll small ones, instead of 2~3 as implied by the current duration. It will be the same ppl so smaller scaled TWs which is a pitty imo. Those small factions are and will be rolled of the map by 1 experienced squad anyway. Multiplying the number of those squads will not make TW more interesting for start but will make it more dull for the end. Having those small factions involved in ganks is way more interesting.

It's just my opinion, but I really hope they won't make it shorter. I've done some TWs with alts in those smaller factions at the beginning of the season. I don't find those very attractive. Introducing seasons was a nice gesture to the smaller factions, but I hope they won't push it to far.

GreenLegend - Archosaur wrote: »

Aside from TW Faction tactics on how to gain more land, Let's try to stick to the original post at hand as to WHY or WHY NOT a 4 Month Reset would be a good idea or not.

It seems most like the idea of 4 month.

I think you also underestimate the importance of the start of the season to reshuffle the cards for the next round. Imo it's a main reason not to have to short TW seasons.

The entire purpose of map resets is to keep TW interesting. The reset time should therefore help promote interesting TWs.

why not have tw map reset every 2 months? why not every 3 weeks? that would be so fun/interesting...

4 months would be ~16 weeks... there are ~50-60 lands on the map. the most tw dominant faction on server would barely have 1/4 of the map, at most. it will be even more common for weaker factions to "win" TW season, but then again who really cares about winning TW season anyways..

Decreasing the time between resets increases the amount of time/season spent on pve or "boring" TWs. lets just assume it takes 3 weeks for strong TW factions (or even factions of similar level) to reach each other after a reset (of course this number varies). a 3 week reset time would result in zero or almost zero interesting TWs, a 4 month reset would result in ~20% of the TWs being just "fillers" to reach an opponent this sounds not so interesting...

The main argument against 6 month tw season is that it is too long/the map becomes stale due to the emergence of 1 dominant faction.

assuming that there is just 1 TW dominant faction on a server (sad) 6 month reset would mean they would have 1/2 the map at most by the END of the season. leaving 1/2 if not more than 1/2 of the map for other factions. again it would take the entire 6 month season to even get to 1/2 the map, meaning that for most of the time there would be more lands available for other factions.

if there are several tw factions of similar strength (yay) they should obviously fight each other which would help balance the map out. if they decide to just sit on their lands toget $$ they are obviously pussies and faction bank funds are probably unevenly distributed to a few players and that faction should fall apart due to greed. if not then their players are probably too stupid, and there is not much you can do about stupid >_>

This is not meant to be insulting but as a community (not even including PWE staff) we tend to make pretty poor decisions overall... (look at all the lets have 2x drops threads atm..) I don't think a 4 month reset will promote more interesting TW's than our current 6 (lol jk since PWE can't keep track of time) month reset time.

The root of the problem (lack of interesting TWs), is not grounded in TW season time, so I don't think changing the reset time will help. The game is just way too imbalanced in terms of how Teamwork - Gear - Skill - and effort contribute to result. (guess which one matters too much now)

GreenLegend - Archosaur wrote: »

So here's my 2 cents to what's quoted above.

First off, how shall others gain experience when larger factions wont invite certain select people or are just too full to invite? Those people will have no choice but to join another faction, possibly a smaller faction. Those "experienced squads"are already multiplied in one or two dominating factions, therefore it has become dull.

Also, as far as I recall, getting ganked is not fun; if a smaller faction , possibly less experienced, tries to gank they will just be masacred and gain absoultely nothing from it.

You your self are saying "Having those small factions involved in ganks is way more interesting." So how can small factions be involved when their moral has been crushed by power and experience? Unless you're an alt faction then its just boring because it's still the same powerful experienced players/factions who are gaining nothing but a tatic to take over. With a shorter season, it's possible to have smaller factions get their "foot in the door" then a true gank can be applied with new and more people.

Ideally there would be NO map reset. For all intents and purposes, TW is a community strengthening feature because it places a moral imperative for those people that want organized PvP.


A dwindling amount of lands is a good thing because it forces people to reconcile their differences and come together in order to contribute to a greater cause. It's less about going where you are comfortable and more about humbling yourself to the server's needs.


In theory in works, but you're right that it doesn't quite pan out that way. But that is because of one fundamental flaw that everyone overlooks: THERE AREN'T ENOUGH PLAYERS


As it stands, the top factions (be they 2, or 3) can eat up enough well-geared players and put them on reserves, where they otherwise would have had to go into a THIRD or FOURTH or FIFTH best faction with players such as YOURSELF if they wanted to experience TW.

It's akin to basic free market principles if you think about it, but the system has horrible rules/guidelines so we never get to see the real potential of TW, 7 or 8 factions all vying for strength. Sanctuary is the only server that comes to mind that ever had like 4 factions going at it. Of course there were two dominant factions, but the point is the flow of players reaching end game + member cap restrictions on factions would eventually address that issue.


The solution is sooooooooooooo simple. MERGE THE SERVERS -OR- lower the guild cap to 125-150 members and voila, we will automatically have conditions for TW's infinitely better than the past 4 years.


PWE, just hire me already and I'll double your profit margins by the end of the year.

GreenLegend - Archosaur wrote: »

First off, how shall others gain experience when larger factions wont invite certain select people or are just too full to invite? Those people will have no choice but to join another faction, possibly a smaller faction.

If you are on an over-crowded server that only has 1 TW faction, I'm doubting you are being objective. How to gain experience ? Normally you start at the bottom and then go up. The place to actually get experience is inside the big 80vs80 TWs, not the 20vs20 ones. "Can't enter", I bet you didn't even apply b:bye Out of the 5 TW experienced factions on Morai, none has a "r9.3 or gtfo" policy.

GreenLegend - Archosaur wrote: »

Those "experienced squads"are already multiplied in one or two dominating factions, therefore it has become dull.

Dull for who? I like the big TWs and your suggestion is to totally erase them just for small factions to get easy coins. TW is a 80vs80 map with 4+ cata's each side.

GreenLegend - Archosaur wrote: »

Also, as far as I recall, getting ganked is not fun; if a smaller faction , possibly less experienced, tries to gank they will just be masacred and gain absoultely nothing from it.

Small ones follow the big ones to gank a strong one. Forcing them to split up and possibly give the best fight a small faction can wish for vs a big faction (possibly cause of time slot luck).

GreenLegend - Archosaur wrote: »

You your self are saying "Having those small factions involved in ganks is way more interesting." So how can small factions be involved when their moral has been crushed by power and experience? Unless you're an alt faction then its just boring because it's still the same powerful experienced players/factions who are gaining nothing but a tatic to take over.

Yes, ganks are interesting. Splitting up forces to defend a maximum of lands is fun, and it's the only way for small factions to face experienced TW with a chance of it being equal in force overall. Please don't forget that a gank on a big faction is the choice of the smaller one. Your question has no valid existence.

GreenLegend - Archosaur wrote: »

With a shorter season, it's possible to have smaller factions get their "foot in the door" then a true gank can be applied with new and more people.

The only factions that will get their "foot in the door" are factions that have a fair chance of doing that anyway from the start. A shorter season won't get you more TW-motivated players on the server. It will just divide them over 4 to 5 factions instead of 2 to 3. Those 4~5 will have less interesting battles as none will ever reach even 60+ ppl anymore, while the small non-TW factions are being rolled of just as easily and just as fast. The ones that get "their foot in the door" will be at the cost of some other TW faction but not at the benefit of some small faction.

Factions attract players with the same interest. It's only normal that big TW factions that have officers putting time in planning a season, building squads and form squad leaders attract players that are motivated for TW, while small factions who do not put in that effort won't.

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

I would honestly lower it even further. If I wanted to, I could kick enough alts and people that don't play anymore to make those numbers easily.

50-ish would basically leave no room for alts and get quite a few guilds going.

Or we can just avoid that entirely with a server merge.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

I would support less people in faction if amount of ppl in TW is also lessened. I kinda like 60 ppl per side in TW if there is no merges, it would instantly balance Archosaur by a lot and in theory make ppls TWs more fun. 80 vs 80 TWs are too large for the playerbase we got.

right, I personally would go lower too, it has tremendous upside and virtually 0 downside, besides ganks being way more effective but that is a nonissue anyway.

as it stands now, it doesn't make sense that for any one tw, 60% of your faction is basically a bench rotting away unused - those players, whether inactives, weaker geared members, or alts, could be having far more fun somewhere else if only they had viable options.

it should be the other way around, with at least 60% of your faction needing to show up to fill max TW capacity, that makes each individual in each respective faction that much more significant and valuable to his or her faction, whether they have good gear or not. that's the kind of change this game needs.

its really just all about getting more players, whether you inflate that number by tweaking the TW/guild caps, or, depending on how many servers they merged, you could just keep the 200 player cap and it would still work beautifully.