Rolling aps or not.

Night$aber - Dreamweaver · May 2014

Hi,i'm undecided if i should roll aps on my barb.I'd like to know the advantages and disadvantages atm,because since i left i heard there appeared more and more anti-aps instances.Also,since nirvana is gone,aps partly went down too.
Here are the builds:
-Aps http://pwcalc.com/c57d82b6eab92333
-Tank http://pwcalc.com/d3f070e79a5ff5e8
The reason i chose to stay 3.33 instead of going 4 was because i'd lose 5 atk lvls,some resists+10% dmg reduction and accuracy reduction from the aps nerf,therefore i don't think it's worth.5 aps is out of the discussion atm,since a tome is too expensive.
I'm open to suggestions,but keep in mind that it will take a while to +10 the weapon in either cases.(I'll +5 the whole gear on spot most probably tho).Also,on aps i'll go demon while on tank i'd go sage.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · May 2014

Night$aber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hi,i'm undecided if i should roll aps on my barb.I'd like to know the advantages and disadvantages atm,because since i left i heard there appeared more and more anti-aps instances.Also,since nirvana is gone,aps partly went down too.
Here are the builds:
-Aps http://pwcalc.com/c57d82b6eab92333
-Tank http://pwcalc.com/d3f070e79a5ff5e8
The reason i chose to stay 3.33 instead of going 4 was because i'd lose 5 atk lvls,some resists+10% dmg reduction and accuracy reduction from the aps nerf,therefore i don't think it's worth.5 aps is out of the discussion atm,since a tome is too expensive.
I'm open to suggestions,but keep in mind that it will take a while to +10 the weapon in either cases.(I'll +5 the whole gear on spot most probably tho).Also,on aps i'll go demon while on tank i'd go sage.

Even with the cape giving you resistances and etc, you will have more survivabilty at 4 aps than 3.33, and more damage, which will make things easier.

Tbh in PvE, the sage vit build is boring as hell. My demon aps barb has 20k hp (with some peices at +0) which is more than enough for most instances. And demon is funb:dirtycrit.

WannaBM - Archosaur · May 2014

It is true, in the new content aps is less usefull. Not totally useless, you can still use it on dragons and those rock throwers in UCH. But not on most bosses.
That is the reason i have stopped investig in my APS. My fists are +10 and probably will never be +12.

However that is only part of the reason. The other part is that i feel more than OP enough in APS. R9 barbs are the best APSers in the game. They deal dmg like an r9 aps sin and have like 6 times the survivability. This is still the best toon to roll trough 3-3 easilly no matter your level of intoxication. They are also perfect for mobless FW in almost any squad composition possible. You bring the advantages of barb buffs (including 5% crit for all from str buff) to the squad while also being a good DD and there is no need for a healer. You can tank everything including the fire vile without them.

If i were to make a new barb now, i would probably still choose to make it APS because there isn't really much of a downside to it except for the cost of buying the required aps items. Statting some dex really isnt much of a downside. Its nice to hit things anyway.

You do want to be 5 aps though. Not 4 and absolutely not 3.33.
Being 4 until you can afford the tome later sure. But the difference between 4 and 5 is big. And at 3.33 you can better not be APS barb. Unlike sins, we dont have chi growing out of our ears. We need the aps to be high.

We also need the dmg output to be high to make it allround usable. If you are apsing in squad and all the squichy sins around you are dropping like flies because they take agro, you are indeed as many people say a "fail barb". Meaning you can use your APS not in squads, and have it only for soloing TT. You will only out DD averag sins at 5aps, base vit. This means all your HP have to come from refines and you do need the tome. Even at 5aps with base vit however, without r9 you are still not out DPSing the majority of sins, only the weaker ones. So you still are walking a fine line and need to be very well aware of whom in your squad is going to take agro and if he can take it or not. Most sins who do outDD you at that point are also able to tank quite some stuff though because vit barbs without stomp of the king often dont hold agro from them either, so they are used to having to tank. That makes it playable for you if as i said you are well aware of your squads capabilities and always ready to tiger and ream anyway.

APS barbs are not the cheapest to build and if you cant or dont want to make the investment, then dont make one.

dogm · May 2014

yea about that HP. Barb is expected to be able to pull a bit and live.
So some base vit might be a good idea in this case.

Also end goal of 3.33 is not enough imo.

Perhaps modify the goal to this:
http://pwcalc.com/f823ce5d34d65216

Interval robe. Could use a lunar g13 also for more endurance, but it's a lot more expensive to make it maximum socket.
Less base dex, leaving points for some base vit, more str.

Make all grade 12 armor 4 sockets.

(Also the gloves are refined and sharded now.)

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear · May 2014

Night$aber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The reason i chose to stay 3.33 instead of going 4 was because i'd lose 5 atk lvls,some resists+10% dmg reduction and accuracy reduction from the aps nerf,therefore i don't think it's worth.

(i) There is strictly no reason to stay at 3.33aps. Even with the -10%dmg reduction, upgrading to to 4.0aps is already 20% more dps. 5atk is roughly -3% actual damage when you already have 70atk lvl (assuming you have jones blessing all the time). Accuracy can glitched to 100% just by landing one penetrate armor debuff or one devour debuff on the boss (Only have to use it once, glitch will stay till the boss dies)

(ii) More importantly, not being able to perma-spark will **** with your overall dps and ability to survive. At 3.33, you can only gain 2.5 spark during the duration of one triple-spark; meaning that you have to delay your next spark by 4secs, during which you will only deal roughly -60%dps (because the spark buff is gone). Less dps also mean less blood paint heal, delay between 3-sparks = less spark heals, you also will have difficulty to spark-resist special attack from boss (All contributing to higher risks of death, crab meat expenses and charm ticks) So yeah, get at least that interval cape.

(iii) I would recommend minimum dex (166base+22) to equip fist/claw, minimum str to equip axe/armor, dump the rest into vit. The reason is that you reap more benefits from vit with those gear (50vit would give around 10% more hp, whereas 50str would only give 3% more dps when 3-sparked). The vit would also let you do all other activities that a normal barb would do, without being too squishy, like during full pulls in lunar.

(iv) One way to reach 5.0aps is to get r8r chest with -0.05 int, instead of the pangu tome. However I would recommend that, only if you are thinking endgame r9s3 gear; because getting the reputation for r8 can be expensive, but it is already in the build-path for r9. I could elaborate more on this 'no-waste' gear-progression towards endgame if you are interested, but if its only a casual or farming alt, you can ignore that point.

(v) Random tip: you may use auto-cultivation for lazy aps-ing. Set a macro with just the auto-attack command. Place the macro in the 1st slot in the auto-culti window. Put demon spark in the 'assist skill' at 18sec interval (for 4.0/5.0aps). Open with devour/penetrate armor on the boss (for accuracy), manually activate the first 3-spark, then run the auto-bot. Go afk, take a ****, get a beer, watch a youtube video, or peep at your neighbour; then come back before the boss dies, all for a 'hands-free' farming experience (works for most bosses)

(vi) For endgame PvE tanking, sage or demon doesnt really matter, you can pretty much tank anything with just lvl10 skills, and tt99/or higher, as long as you are not doing anything stupid. APS is more of a long term investment. It sacrifices early survivability, but opens more opportunities: farming (mostly TT, maybe world bosses), solo fc (for rebirth), spawn-kill warsong, easy points in tiger even, etc.. APS barbs can operate just like regular tank barbs (only difference is a few thousand hp, which can easy be recovered by taking advantage of multiple farming opportunities).

Night$aber - Dreamweaver · May 2014

Well,you guys are really helpful so far.I still got a few questions though.
So,does that devour/penetrate armor glitch work just by simply using it on the boss?Also,does it work on mobs.I might have not paid attention but it seems like im still missing on mobs when they're devoured.

Secondly,as far as the 3.33>4 aps works,i read two different opinions,stating that it's either regular -20% accuracy,or it actually is a forced miss 20% of time,which put me into thinking.Otherwise,yes i realized i would still get more dps from going to 4.0.

@WannaBm you brought keeping aggro in the discussion but my question is,would a regular barb be able to keep aggro better than a 3.33 aps?(even though i have decided to go to 4.0 and later on 5.0 by now).I was under the illusion that regular barbs can't keep aggro anyway,so correct me if i'm wrong.

And what is the price of R9 in gold atm,if you could tell me,so i decide if i'll think of it as a future plan.Oh and is the interval cape expensive?I know that depends on the server but what is its price on average from packs,and how much is on average a lunar TM run?

Thanks in advance,you're all great xD.
PS:Oh,1 more thing that is rather annoying,is that you have to build both aps fists and G16 axe,since i doubt you can deal with stuff with the morai 95 axe.

WannaBM - Archosaur · May 2014

Night$aber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well,you guys are really helpful so far.I still got a few questions though.
So,does that devour/penetrate armor glitch work just by simply using it on the boss?Also,does it work on mobs.I might have not paid attention but it seems like im still missing on mobs when they're devoured.

econdly,as far as the 3.33>4 aps works,i read two different opinions,stating that it's either regular -20% accuracy,or it actually is a forced miss 20% of time,which put me into thinking.Otherwise,yes i realized i would still get more dps from going to 4.0.

@WannaBm you brought keeping aggro in the discussion but my question is,would a regular barb be able to keep aggro better than a 3.33 aps?(even though i have decided to go to 4.0 and later on 5.0 by now).I was under the illusion that regular barbs can't keep aggro anyway,so correct me if i'm wrong.

And what is the price of R9 in gold atm,if you could tell me,so i decide if i'll think of it as a future plan.Oh and is the interval cape expensive?I know that depends on the server but what is its price on average from packs,and how much is on average a lunar TM run?

Thanks in advance,you're all great xD.
PS:Oh,1 more thing that is rather annoying,is that you have to build both aps fists and G16 axe,since i doubt you can deal with stuff with the morai 95 axe.

I know of no devour penetrate armor glitch. I do know mire makes you 100% sure to hit. Every barb should have mire on its genie. In the first place for when you sunder arma so there are no survivors.

Noone has 100% certified info on the undocumented effects that reduce the effect of 4 and 5 aps. I and others did some tests recently that clearly showed the info on the pwpedia page to be wrong. I dont remember exactly anymore though. It was a 10% loss in accuracy. The same for both 4 and 5 aps. You still make chi though for these misses.

It very much depends on what you consider a regular barb. A regula strength barb will hold a lot more agro than a regular vit barb. Simply because he does twice the damage. Also some people play regular barbs without stomp of the king, while others do have the skill. A strength barb with stomp of the king can hold quite some agro. When i was APSing in my G16/TT99, i did revert to tiger to hold agro where my apsing would not. But indeed there are limits to what agro a tiger barb can hold.

R9 costs about 800 gold all together you also need double int fists to make it work (those can be bought for the equivalent of anything between 100 and 200 gold probably). I am not saying you should only go APS if you want to go R9 though. While APSing in R9 is what makes the barb the most OP apser and roflstomp anything in the game with eyes closed, a 5APS G16/TT99 barb surely does a good job too. But i do think you should aim for 5aps, +10 fists and enough armor refines to not need any vit statted. (having 15k standing and 20k in tiger is what i would consider minimum)

The interval cape shouldnt be too much. On archo you can get them trough TM lunar runs from either me or Zanryu for 32m. If you find a squad properly geared but not OP friends you can also do it with 6 people instead of paying someone to do it. You will need to have some reliable people though who know to cooperate and learn together and then still expect to do a dozen of practice runs before you can do it properly even with 6 people.

WannaBM - Archosaur · May 2014

Relative damage output comparison:

4APS G16 barb
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
5APS G16 barb
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
4aps G16 sin
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
5APS G16 sin
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
5APS R9 barb
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
4APS R9 sin
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

That is when most other things are roughly equal. The details like helm refinement, +Str or dmg engraves on rings and amulet, farming your nuemas or not shoosing the Acards that add most to your dmg rather than defence can add or lose you 1 or 2 X's.

Maybe other APS barbs, BMs and sins like to compare their dmg here without fighting mobs and see if my XX's seem to be correct

(i have drawn those purely out of personaly in game experience, no math or facts were used). To calculate your dmg, simply multiply the following factors, ill fill out mine as example

.

Average sparked base dmg from char screen. (min + max)/2 : 33.400
Crit rate (1 + critrate/100) : 1.35
Attack level (1+Alvl/100): 1.71
Slaying level (1+Slaylvl/100): 1.04
Spirit (1+ spirit/4000): 1.092
APS: 5.00

So multiply this all 33.400 * 1.35 * 1.71 * 1.04 * 1.092 * 5 = 438k

Lets keep blood rush, subsea, power dash, HF and genie skills out of the picture. Surely none of them are insignificant, but their significance is very different depending on the situation. The accuracy loss at 4 and 5 aps is also not taken into account, so if you are below 4aps i guess you can add 10% to make it fair

Sins can also multiply their crit rate by (1+wolf emblem/100) so for example if you have 50% crit and lvl 10 wolf emblem for 30%, then multiply your crit by 1.3 and use 65 in the above calculation.

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear · May 2014

The accuracy glitch is as old as pwi (don't quote me on that though). It basically works with any phy-def debuff including: devour, penetrate armor, bm's glacial spike, veno's ironwood, cleric's dimensional seal, tangling mire. The debuff has to land only once in order to work. Missed the first time? try again till the debuff lands, all attacks that follows will not miss. Works on any mob or boss. PvE only.

If you ever feel the need to verify this:
1. Get a cleric with no added dex
2. Find a random mob with less very low hit rate (e.g <50%).
3. Smack it with glaive (auto attack). Verify that you will miss a lot.
4. Now, throw dimensional seal. Verify that the debuff icon got on the mob once.
5. Start smacking it with glaive again.
5. Watch the magic happen.
6. Reproducible with any phy-defence debuff.

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · May 2014

Huunnn... *grunts*

Long post.
Big numbers.
*grunts*

APS BARB FAIL! APS Barb only solo farm. *grunts*

Axe barb win, axe barb best..... Axe barb crush.b:angry

Colum - Raging Tide · May 2014

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »

Huunnn... *grunts*

Long post.
Big numbers.
*grunts*

APS BARB FAIL! APS Barb only solo farm. *grunts*

Axe barb win, axe barb best..... Axe barb crush.b:angry

The hate is turning over the arguments, RUN! b:shocked Run before we feel the mighty hits of the sage axe barb!

Nipon - Raging Tide · May 2014

Usually i don't hate aps. I use to be aps and it's fun to be aps barb before but now become a vital barb. But important thing like WannaBM said 5 aps only. I suggest you get -.05 int robe and roll R8r -.05 int chest and if possible get -.05x2 on your fist weapon.

http://pwcalc.com/ece86320c8c3ef67

another option if you have more budget get - int tome, change to TT99 heavy and element ornament.b:cute

http://pwcalc.com/e7058144af7deabb

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · June 2014

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The accuracy glitch is as old as pwi (don't quote me on that though). It basically works with any phy-def debuff including: devour, penetrate armor, bm's glacial spike, veno's ironwood, cleric's dimensional seal, tangling mire. The debuff has to land only once in order to work. Missed the first time? try again till the debuff lands, all attacks that follows will not miss. Works on any mob or boss. PvE only.

If you ever feel the need to verify this:
1. Get a cleric with no added dex
2. Find a random mob with less very low hit rate (e.g <50%).
3. Smack it with glaive (auto attack). Verify that you will miss a lot.
4. Now, throw dimensional seal. Verify that the debuff icon got on the mob once.
5. Start smacking it with glaive again.
5. Watch the magic happen.
6. Reproducible with any phy-defence debuff.

Unfortunately PWI fixed this glitch when they updated barb aggro machanics to scale with HP some months ago. Those were good times tho.

WannaBM - Archosaur · June 2014

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Unfortunately PWI fixed this glitch when they updated barb aggro machanics to scale with HP some months ago. Those were good times tho.

They surely did not fix it for mire. Hit some 300 mired mobs in PV and never a single one survives b:pleased

Joe - Morai · June 2014

Well well. What do we have here. Seems just like a topic made for the good ol Joe.

Well while everything has already been said on this subject (ty WannaBM (although I still dunno why you would wanna be a BM while barbs are so much more awesome (I used to be a BM for years but meh))) I like to throw in the fact that I started out as a aps barb. I went through all stages. Being 1,43 at lvl 60 with my beloved tt60 fists and being so OP at lvl 90 with 2,5 aps due to lunar robe, tt90 gold wrists and gorenox. I farmed and played my way thru this game being aps. As you can imagine...the first delta was quite funny @12k hp and 14k pdef in tiger form

but delta is easy anyways.

Playing an aps barb is more like a way of life (: you gotta life and feel it. Even at end-game there is o downside to the 200 dex you stat for being able to use fists/claws. I would always stat 200 dex even if I wouldnt use claws. The key words here are accu and crit. I need my 10,5k accu while being in bloodbath to tear those sins and archers apart (: cuz trust me. 4k accu isnt enough.

No BM and no G16 sin compares to my dmg on the morai server ( ya cept for the max deity ones but I could go max deity too...would be funny

). I'm currently at 42-46k pattack @760 STR with claws while being triple sparked and max stacked blood rush (unlvled A cards but +12 g16 claws, 1 garnet gem).

So you see. Being an aps barbs is a viable option especially for end game pvp actions (altho I wouldnt aps enemies cept for trolling xD).

WannaBM - Archosaur · June 2014

My name was chosen because of the haters here on the forum Joe. One of them called us aps-barbs wannabe BMs. I figured that'd make a good name.

Dont worry, i am totally happy to be a barb. In fact, each time i log in on a slow walking alt i can already not understand how others can play this game. Thats not even considering the fact that we are the best tanks, best apsers, best aoe nukers b:pleased

The starting early with APS. of course you can do it. But indeed it is a way of life. A life of fighting prejudice. When you are endgame, that is easy. Very sometimes i still get the question "why did you choose to play a barb ?" but not more than that. Mostly people recognize the awesomeness of aps barbs now b:pleased
When you are a weak aps barb, you get insulted, laughed at, kicked from squads etc. Maybe that is the most important reason not be a weak aps barb

Redmenace - Heavens Tear · June 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

When you are a weak aps barb, you get insulted, laughed at, kicked from squads etc. Maybe that is the most important reason not be a weak aps barb

It's also possible to be a non-aps barb. I've never been kicked from squads because I'm *not* an APS barb. My experience has been the opposite - when I hear from a squad looking for a barb, they usually want one for 1) buffs, 2) tank, 3) puller. All of which can be done by other races with the proper equipment (except the buffs) but not as easily as a barb.

WannaBM - Archosaur · June 2014

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's also possible to be a non-aps barb. I've never been kicked from squads because I'm *not* an APS barb. My experience has been the opposite - when I hear from a squad looking for a barb, they usually want one for 1) buffs, 2) tank, 3) puller. All of which can be done by other races with the proper equipment (except the buffs) but not as easily as a barb.

See you are an example of that prejudice.
Of course APS barbs can do that all perfectly well, and do that where suitable.
Its not like we give up any of our existing barb abilities to be an APS barb. Only difference is we give up some 100str or so. Or vit for those who prefer vit over str.

There are however also options where it is perfectly good to use aps. For example you are doing wood/water pav in FW group by group. It is not needed to go tiger and roar 3 mobs. Instead the common way is to have 3 DDs each jump 1 mob. So you do this APS. Of course your ****** squat mates who started calling you a fail as soon as they saw your fists will do everything to prove their point. Instead of all attacking a different mob, they will all attack the same mob you attack and the other 2 mobs attack an unsuspecting squichy and he dies.

You pull full fire which you are perfectly capable of as an aps barb, the BM doesnt stun, the cleric BBs before you roar, dies, you die, everyone dies etc. And its your fault because you are an APS barb.

Or you know you out DD the sin by a margin that is safe enough to hold agro. You also know that while you can hold agro apsing, you could not hold agro in tiger. So you APS tank the boss. The sin will do everything he can to get himself killed (attack before you do, use his 40% crit skill bonus) and blame you.

Just some examples. As soon as people know youre aps, they will call you fail and start acting like ******* themselves to prove their point. Often it starts even before you get to do things as a squad. You are for example with a sin who isnt entirely confident to defend wood and you offer to do it and their it starts already, their ego is hurt by the mere thought that a barb can do what they cannot.

The sins trying to prove themselves by dying still happens btw. Difference is nowadays i just tell him to stop acting like a tard and try to not die and make us wait before we can kill the vile.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear · June 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

See you are an example of that prejudice.
Of course APS barbs can do that all perfectly well, and do that where suitable.
Its not like we give up any of our existing barb abilities to be an APS barb. Only difference is we give up some 100str or so. Or vit for those who prefer vit over str.

There are however also options where it is perfectly good to use aps. For example you are doing wood/water pav in FW group by group. It is not needed to go tiger and roar 3 mobs. Instead the common way is to have 3 DDs each jump 1 mob. So you do this APS. Of course your ****** squat mates who started calling you a fail as soon as they saw your fists will do everything to prove their point. Instead of all attacking a different mob, they will all attack the same mob you attack and the other 2 mobs attack an unsuspecting squichy and he dies.

You pull full fire which you are perfectly capable of as an aps barb, the BM doesnt stun, the cleric BBs before you roar, dies, you die, everyone dies etc. And its your fault because you are an APS barb.

Or you know you out DD the sin by a margin that is safe enough to hold agro. You also know that while you can hold agro apsing, you could not hold agro in tiger. So you APS tank the boss. The sin will do everything he can to get himself killed (attack before you do, use his 40% crit skill bonus) and blame you.

Just some examples. As soon as people know youre aps, they will call you fail and start acting like ******* themselves to prove their point. Often it starts even before you get to do things as a squad. You are for example with a sin who isnt entirely confident to defend wood and you offer to do it and their it starts already, their ego is hurt by the mere thought that a barb can do what they cannot.

The sins trying to prove themselves by dying still happens btw. Difference is nowadays i just tell him to stop acting like a tard and try to not die and make us wait before we can kill the vile.

Calm Down, Son.

At no point in the posting above did I say APS barbs couldn't do any of those things. I didn't infer it, or suggest it. I never said you couldn't pull, or buff, or tank.

I said that you can also be a successful barb and *not* be APS.

\climb down offa the ledge, and stop being prejudiced against non-APS barbs
\\your answers are *always* "Go APS"
\\\"when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

.

bannokmak · June 2014

Hey This is my question? I don't have a bias about being aps barb. I used to be aps before but now I saw game have changed a lot. OK first question

1. Aps is still work for those bosses that have anti-aps buff?
such as Pupeteer, Bosses in UCH, Bosses in flow silver and any boss that have anti-aps buff. Don't talk about squad I ask you if you can solo those bosses with their anti-aps buff?

2. In PVP situation like TW,NW, it's hard to kill those player with R9r2 +12 with aps ?
i guess you need 3 sparks to boost your damage but that 's a hard time to set up?
You can say you don't used fist that time and use main weap to attack but everthing I saw in my sight in TW/NW pure str demon barb +12 dominate all caster or even dex class. You can say barb need dex for those dex classes but don't forget you have 5 skills that never miss and pretty fast cooldown and BO with debuff evasion. How is aps useful today in pvp situation?

3. in Flow Silver palace I used to see aps barb with R9 set up with claw +12 try to hold aggro from archer/caster R9r2 +10-12 weap but not working so he changed to tiger and start to use fresh ream.
you used to be in that situation?

4. and yes I know aps barb making a good money from TT but as I see today with economy and everthing price up I feel tired to farming TT and stop farming TT already.
some of my friend, he has 7 alts and got coins 20-25M everyday by just auto culti and went afk.
you still farming TT?

5. about solo TT I see those R9r2 +12 caster just 12-15 shots on boss around that in TT 3-3 and really fast to kill boss for drop I feel so tried to continue being aps barb.
even in FC my friend veno R9r2+12 he did 4 shots on boss and didn't spark and boss died so fast it made me my aps barb look joke. you think you can kill those bosses with +12 claw faster than those people with R9r2+12 weap?

back in the old day aps barb really really cool but now game has changed a lot.
yes aps still useful some case like FC/TT/Nirva,BH 69/79/89/Lunar/warsong
but don't forget you have a squad to do instance like lunar/warsong (not FC ofc it's easy for solo) if some OP has GOD gear join your squad just sit down and watch only lol.

WannaBM - Archosaur · June 2014

bannokmak wrote: »

Hey This is my question? I don't have a bias about being aps barb. I used to be aps before but now I saw game have changed a lot. OK first question

1. Aps is still work for those bosses that have anti-aps buff?
such as Pupeteer, Bosses in UCH, Bosses in flow silver and any boss that have anti-aps buff. Don't talk about squad I ask you if you can solo those bosses with their anti-aps buff?

Pupeteer is very APSable. Doe he even have anti APS buff ? If so its a weak version of it i guess ? Soloing Puppet is hard though since the time between anouncement and actualy jailing is very short. 1 fraction of lag and your spark is too late. Bring an alt sin to take the jailings and its a piece of cake though.

I have never tried soloing FSP since there is no real point in it. FPS bosses arent too tough though, im pretty sure i could solo them in squad mode, both skill spamming or APSing. (Except for their tricks of course, cant be together by yourself) UCH is not soloable, too little paint heal while trying to kill the circling adds on fire boss. Too little time to kill all 6 stone throwers. And i dont think i'd have fun trying to solo those beetles either.

2. In PVP situation like TW,NW, it's hard to kill those player with R9r2 +12 with aps ?
i guess you need 3 sparks to boost your damage but that 's a hard time to set up?
You can say you don't used fist that time and use main weap to attack but everthing I saw in my sight in TW/NW pure str demon barb +12 dominate all caster or even dex class. You can say barb need dex for those dex classes but don't forget you have 5 skills that never miss and pretty fast cooldown and BO with debuff evasion. How is aps useful today in pvp situation?

I am not very experienced in PvP. I occasionally pull out my fists on targets that dont seem to move much and are hard to kill. If i 3 spark and they dont run, ill aps em down and that does work wonders. Sometimes ill use an occult ice to keep em in place, but that is only after the sparking, so they'll have to wait and let me do that.

3. in Flow Silver palace I used to see aps barb with R9 set up with claw +12 try to hold aggro from archer/caster R9r2 +10-12 weap but not working so he changed to tiger and start to use fresh ream.
you used to be in that situation?

No, this is strange. Why aps to try and hold agro on aps resist bosses ?Does he not have an axe ?
On non APS-resistant bosses, the claws will out DD non-aps classes by a landslide.
On APS resistant bosses you use an r9 axe and being demon with High strength, standing skill spam with an axe will hold you agro against any class even if they are quite better geared.
This in fact works better than reaming.

4. and yes I know aps barb making a good money from TT but as I see today with economy and everthing price up I feel tired to farming TT and stop farming TT already.
some of my friend, he has 7 alts and got coins 20-25M everyday by just auto culti and went afk.
you still farming TT?

Yes, mostly during 2x, rarely now without 2x. If i werent a merchant id be doing it a lot more though.

5. about solo TT I see those R9r2 +12 caster just 12-15 shots on boss around that in TT 3-3 and really fast to kill boss for drop I feel so tried to continue being aps barb.
even in FC my friend veno R9r2+12 he did 4 shots on boss and didn't spark and boss died so fast it made me my aps barb look joke. you think you can kill those bosses with +12 claw faster than those people with R9r2+12 weap?

I have no experience with casters in TT. But i do know this:
-Noone takes agro from me when i skill spam with my R9 axe, not using any agro skills.
-I DD 2-3x faster with fists than with axe.

Conclusion, every non-aps class must DD at least 2-3 times slower than my APSing.

back in the old day aps barb really really cool but now game has changed a lot.
yes aps still useful some case like FC/TT/Nirva,BH 69/79/89/Lunar/warsong
but don't forget you have a squad to do instance like lunar/warsong (not FC ofc it's easy for solo) if some OP has GOD gear join your squad just sit down and watch only lol.

answers in red

bannokmak · June 2014

Hello wannaBM Thanks for reply. This is my suggestion even if you like or not b:chuckle

1. You should try PVP more such as NW by yourself.
You can go solo or with squad but solo for more challenge there're many OP gears players in there and you will see something maybe change your mind.

2. For instance or dungeon get more challenge such as joining OP squad with +12 weapon. It's more challenge if you can hold aggro with less gear like R8 from those R9r2 +12. Some barb in my server taught me about aggro mechanic. He used R8r defense LV pole (just refine +3) keep and hold aggro from R9r2 +12 archer/caster every boss in Flow Silver palace that made me feel really impressive.

I know I know,I don't know if you like my suggestion or not but that is just my suggestion.

peckked · June 2014

Puppet definitely has the anti aps buff. Using APS it takes ~4-5 sparks for me to kill it solo. Skill spamming just 2.

WannaBM - Archosaur · June 2014

bannokmak wrote: »

Hello wannaBM Thanks for reply. This is my suggestion even if you like or not b:chuckle

1. You should try PVP more such as NW by yourself.
You can go solo or with squad but solo for more challenge there're many OP gears players in there and you will see something maybe change your mind.

Change my mind on what ? On being APS ?
I do PvP sometimes, though not often because it is at 5:20 AM. I have seen no reason to change. Moving 100 dex to str would only increase my damage output by 5% at best. My dmg output seems to be fine though and i like having some accuracy.
I am thinking i might temporarilly restat to full vit for once for catapulling.

bannokmak wrote: »

2. For instance or dungeon get more challenge such as joining OP squad with +12 weapon. It's more challenge if you can hold aggro with less gear like R8 from those R9r2 +12. Some barb in my server taught me about aggro mechanic. He used R8r defense LV pole (just refine +3) keep and hold aggro from R9r2 +12 archer/caster every boss in Flow Silver palace that made me feel really impressive..

I have not started out with R9+10/12. I have started out tanking TT3-3 in squads in TT90 equipment. I have even had a sage barb before i made this demon one. I know agro mechanics perfectly well and what you say is not entirely truthfull. It is technically impossible.

If you do less dmg than other DDs, you can take agro every time you ream. Ream will equalise the agro and add the damage it does + 20k or so. This holds agro for a while until their damage overcomes the agro you made with ream. If the other DDs arent very strong compared to the reaming barb, that will take longer than it takes you to cast another ream. If they are moderately stronger than the barb it may be after 2 seconds for example. With you reaming at a 2.5 or 3s interval depending if youre demon or sage, that leaves only 0.5 second for the other player to have agro. Very likely, the boss wont even attack him in that little iterval and you may not even notice that agro swaps.
If however you do very little damage like with an r8r defence weapon and the top DD is R9+12, he will take agro from you the very first attack he does after you reamed. There isnt really anything you can do against it, and if you happen to be on archosaur, i challenge you or "the barb that tought you" to prove me wrong by holding agro against me with an r8r weapon while i skillspam.

Devour and stop of the king can of course help you generate some more agro. But it does not change the fact that with the existing agro mechanics you are always catching up on the top DD in squad. Meaning it is basically impossible to hold permanent agro if the difference in dmg output is bigger than the bonus agro generated from skills. You may for example in 1 minute cast 20x ream, 10 devour and 2x stomp. That will generate about 800k bonus agro. Many R9+12s can do that in 1 single hit.

Anyway lets ignore this untrue information and your reasons for posting it.
Yes, the more OP you get, the more boring the game is. Using inferior gear on your existing toon doesnt seem to solve that for me though. I tried solving it by playing another toon, but that never works for long either because of the repeated tedious daily bullcrap you get to do. The only thing i can think of that could make the game interesting is an instance editor so that we can get endless player made content. Even if there is no reward for doing these instances.

peckked wrote: »

Puppet definitely has the anti aps buff. Using APS it takes ~4-5 sparks for me to kill it solo. Skill spamming just 2.

Yup, i payed attention to it now and indeed, it goes down much faster with skill spam

If you want to truely solo him (i gave up on that but i know some do) i think APSing is still the way though since you have to spark very fast and finishing your aps attack takes 0.2s at most while finishing your skill attack might take up to 2s or so.

Joe - Morai · July 2014

Uhhh...no necro yet I hope.

Simply story short.

Watch my vids. Ok there are only 3 of them atm but...you'll figure.

Although I am aps-geared and skilled I can take on even the max geared players on my server but ok granted. I only have 2 real APS parts now excluding my claws. That would be my lunar trophy robe and my r8r chest with double -0,05 int.

But I can assure you that I would always go for aps built (200 Dex) anyways. I need the extra accuracy. I'm at ~11k accu atm with blood bath. Unforunatly I still miss alot on max dex sins and archers xDD but way less then comparable barbs with just 2k or 4k accu.

To PvP with fists/Claws: I wouldn't suggest using them simply because my full r9 with my +12 axe just does way more dmg. Although that heavily depends. Against hard to kill opponents it is always smart to debuff their max HP using Deicide claws (regicide too ofc), especially when you move yourself in dangerous chi-drained situations.

So to conclude it: Use fists in PvP only for debuffing and chi gaining matters. And dw about the dmg reduction of those little 140 DEX that you could add up on STR. Those 7% crit and the several hits that will NOT miss compansate you for it big time.

Being an aps barb isn't only an option. If you take into account all pros and cons then it is the smartest move you can do for both PvE and PvP. The only exception would be if you like to be a huge target and just wanna last longer in TW or while carrying the flag in NW. In any other situation are aps barbs far superior to the average barb built due to their versatility alone.

Note: Ofc you could play an DEX built barb even without fists. It would still be a more effeicient built then Full str imho. The only reason I would ever go full str would be to faceroll casters. Simply because I don't need the extra accu for them. But w/e. (:

Rolling aps or not.

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