Can the inflated economy be reversed?

butterglobe · May 2014

I've been wondering what possible ideas could help stabilize the sharply growing inflation in PWI?

Would (example) making mobs drop higher amount of coins help?
>> So that it encourages people to farm mobs in general not just for important items but also for coins thus using the coins for gold trading to purchase boutique items and when boutique items are more within reach of the community, the value of items would stop increasing.

At this moment I think the coins coming from mobs are so outdated that its no longer worth picking up.

Forget about implementing new systems that doesn't exist in pwcn or having old systems (like DQ rewards revived), what are your ideas?

Do share

bluestuffzzz · May 2014

butterglobe wrote: »

I've been wondering what possible ideas could help stabilize the sharply growing inflation in PWI?

Would (example) making mobs drop higher amount of coins help?
>> So that it encourages people to farm mobs in general not just for important items but also for coins thus using the coins for gold trading to purchase boutique items and when boutique items are more within reach of the community, the value of items would stop increasing.

At this moment I think the coins coming from mobs are so outdated that its no longer worth picking up.

Forget about implementing new systems that doesn't exist in pwcn or having old systems (like DQ rewards revived), what are your ideas?

Do share

This was discussed quite a bit back in the day. It's not possible, and even if it was, PWE wouldn't care enough to make it so. The problem isn't a lack of coins. On the contrary, it's actually too many coins in the market that devalue what a coin is worth. With things like tokens of best luck, extacy/excitement cards, etc popping up from Cube, BH, event rewards, etc; all of that coin just magically appears on the server when someone gets it. Even TW rewards cause this issue.

So, what happens when one person gets an excitement card from BH, sells it to the NPC, and gets the 5m coin from nothing? They use that coin to purchase items from players, which puts it into the market. Now, if one person does this, it isn't a big deal. However, imagine how many players do this daily? There's probably 1bil a day created on each server out of the blue.

A way to mitigate this issue are coin sinks via NPCs. If the player that received that coinage turns around and buys items from an NPC (and/or the NPC takes a cut of the profit), then the coin is technically gone and not on the server anymore. Unfortunately, not only does this require work from Wanmei & PWE to implement, but it's only a minor fix.

Ultimately, the coin fix issue doesn't work 100% because everyone will not blow on their extra coins on an NPC-based item(s). There is no possible fix to the inflation, except coin sinks and removing ways that coin are thrown into the market. Much like real life, inflation is natural in the market.

Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver · May 2014

I actually think increasing the coin drop might make it worse.

It's like how it is with botting, more people are getting more coin from just setting up their autocultivation and letting it run for x amount of time, thus putting in more coin into the economy, raising the prices of everything. Some servers have an even more crippled economy than others, but botting isn't really the only problem. It's player greed.
People with all this extra coin they farmed/merched/cashed/botted/etc. whatever, can afford the stupid high prices people are selling items for, so they buy them. Since there are people willing to buy at said high prices, why would the sellers lower the price? Vicious cycle really.

Edit: ninja'd lol

GreenLegend - Archosaur · May 2014

If you can actually figure out how to do this, you may be able to solve the worldly economic issues as they all greatly resemble each other.

The only difference is that in this game, the devs/gms/people-in-power can easily make and give things freely at will, while real world cannot.

Most prices are set around Tokens as well, with the [Anniversary Packs] having a high rate of nice items, they mainly only give out mostly Tokens of Luck which helped lower those prices as well as all associated items.

Also, a long enough sale of certain items and or 2x Event, could help lessen the overall price of things.

Simple rule... as supply gets higher, demand will fall along with their prices. As demand sets the price.

Sir_Wolfman - Raging Tide · May 2014

Tokens are a huge part of the economy since almost everything is made from them. If PWI wants in game prices to go down they would either have to add more tokens per pack 20-30 instead of 15 or add a new way to get tokens.

Zanryu - Lothranis · May 2014

Offer ways to grind non tradable versions of the items that require a significant effort so as not to crash the prices into the ground. People that don't want to farm can buy, people that do can farm. Easy peasy. Never gonna happen, a pain to give significantly difficult content, good fight PWI

Miugre - Heavens Tear · May 2014

I'm just going to throw out an idea I've been thinking about. It's not coin-related, but it does deal with some key elements of the economy.

The idea is just one simple change: add an option to exchange NW tokens for pack tokens. The exchange rate can be tweaked until it's ideally balanced, but that's the gist of it.

* First, people will convert everything to pack tokens since they're worth significantly more than other things you can make with NW tokens.
* Pack tokens will then return to their floor value of 10k each.
* At the same time, raps/cannies and other NW token items will increase in value until they stabilize along with the pack tokens.
* The end result will be reasonably priced pack tokens, reasonably valuable raps/cannies, and more incentive to do NW.

There are always going to be ways to generate new coin, at least as long as Jolly Jones is around. What you want to do is encourage stability through having certain markets balance each other out.

Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721 · May 2014

Kitty haz an idea about how to devaluate in PWI: Gold pack bidding hall!

In gold pack bidding hall there would be something like "Pack of 100 Golds". The bids would be paid with in-game coins and there would be 4 gold packs in bidding hall each night. That would greatly increase gold supply and thus drive down the gold prices. And lower gold price price would mean most of other prices come down too as majority of prices are based on gold price.

Inb4heavydebate.

butterglobe · May 2014

Mine is a poor example, I didn't realize its a matter of too much coins in game. I thought most people's concerns are having too little coins (thus leading me to associate with current mob drops not keeping up with the changes in economy and using it as an example).

There little to be done in the Real World but here I thought it would be interesting to see what various ideas people can come up way and how some people might see the plot holes that come with it from a different angle.

So thanks for pointing those out

Unknown · May 2014

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WannaBM - Archosaur · May 2014

Learn to live with inflation as a fact of life.

Its a valuable lesson because real life is the same albeit slower. 100 years ago, you would by a house for the price that nowadays buys you a bicycle.

Unknown · May 2014

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Mayfly - Dreamweaver · May 2014

Have an NPC sell tokens of luck for somewhat over 10k. That introduces a massive, attractive coin sink, still leaves room for token merchants to make a profit, and puts a ceiling on the price of tokens (which controls prices of many other popular items in game, such as teleacoustics, crab meat, herb yuanxiao, and various pages.)

WannaBM - Archosaur · May 2014

That may seem so, but in real life it is to all our benefit.

Inflation causes the need for money to be invested. This in turn causes our economy to grow. If there were no inflation, we could all just put our money in a sock rather than invest it. The lack of investment would in turn cause more unemployement etc....
Of course it also has this nice side effect of being an invisible tax yes...

But regardless of the reasons for inflation to be there, you can complain, or you can observe and understand the situation and adept.

FlyingStab - Archosaur · May 2014

You guys are missing a very important point on most of the suggestions, PWI get feed with the catshopper, not with the F2P players. They will never do any move that involved benefit F2P and be bad for csers. The idea of getting 20 or 30 tokens instead of 15 its possiblle the best one as directly increase benefit of csers, but letting people buy gold on AH with the ingame coins its going to indeeed reduce the gold prize without a bennefit for csers, wich is basically the opposite that PWI staff wants. They can do some kind of NW<->Luck token exchange as they control the amount of NW tokens they give every week to a server but once again, whats the benefit on that for csers? they will just get the thing they buy with real coins get their prize reduced. Then u have the idea of the NPC that dont let increase the token prize, and all i can say to that is that PWI did the opposite, they put an NPC so the prize never go lower 10k u going on opposite direction of PWI policy. The idea of selling 4x100gold packs with ingame coins ONLY each day really made me lol. If they do that in 1 month the gold prize is going to drop so fast that nobody will bother on charging zen knowing they can just afk bot and then just buy 1 of those packs (4 each day x30 days =120 packs = 12000 gold = 12000 dollars missing on PWI pockets each month, each server).

PWI staff doesnt like any player that play their game without paying money, they allow u to play but doesnt mean they like u and they will not do anything to help u. I think that if u guys hadnt noticed that by now u just hasnt played this game at all. As i said, the only idea that was given on this post that have any chance to be applied is the increase on the amount of token csers get from packs because they first benefit the csers directly and then the benefit to F2P comes indirectly.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · May 2014

they should make a spenditure limit per day in coins b:thanks

Samaranight - Sanctuary · May 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Learn to live with inflation as a fact of life.

Its a valuable lesson because real life is the same albeit slower. 100 years ago, you would by a house for the price that nowadays buys you a bicycle.

Lets allow that last sentence to sink in for a second.

Bicycles where I live are 300 USD and up, with the better ones being will over 900 USD.

If it still hasn't sunk in - you save money buying a car instead.

Kalopsia - Dreamweaver · May 2014

I didn't read through all the suggestions, but the easiest to way to reverse the inflation would have been to sell war avatar catalysts at a fixed cost, say 750k ea at an npc.

More items in the future need to be sold at npc's and not all in the boutique, similar to the mat chipping system of the past.

ovenusarmanio · May 2014

A few things off the top of my head

Remove the bots

Add an NPC that sells potions, charms, and rep, and hypers.

Remove tokens of best luck

Put some low level orbs in the nation wars token exchange system (maybe up to +5, can't be combined) or put in an NPC that sells them.

To compensate for lowering token value from packs, up the percentage of winning anything else. But only marginally to retain the value of things like SOT.

Poopinpanto - Heavens Tear · May 2014

Yep the number 1 prob now is the bots and inflation will continue because of afk botting 24/7.

I rarely gamble packs usually on holiday season if people give me gift cards so the tokens aren't a issue..hell I rarely win and 5mill tokens anyways when I do gamble.

Yes the BH's are great profit with the cards/mirages/socket stones to sell off.I know this because I am very very VERY lucky its scary with bh profit on the turn in..its like PW pays me daily to keep playing this lowsey game.

Unknown · May 2014

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SweetieBot - Lothranis · May 2014

sontzu wrote: »

SweetieBot, please give Mayfly 10 points for understanding economics

sontzu awards 10 points to Mayfly - Dreamweaver!
Mayfly - Dreamweaver is now in 2nd place for May 2014 with 10 points (55 points overall).
sontzu can still award another 20 points today.

Check this thread for the current high scores and to learn how to award points to others.

WannaBM - Archosaur · May 2014

sontzu wrote: »

Inflation causes people to panic buy essential items. The only people investing will be the rich; poor people will get the sh*tty end of the stick as always. Only a Keynesian would believe inflation is good.
Do you understand basic mathematics? Is your market of an infinite size? What do you think will happen if you have constant inflation?
Hyper-inflation was one of the major contributory factors is starting WW2, when Germans found themselves having to pay 3 million marks for a loaf of bread, assuming they were prepared to wait in a queue for 8 hours, and there was still some bread to buy.
This is a game, not rl, but some principles hold true. Constant inflation leads to bubbles that sooner or later burst. This is a simple matter of mathematical logic.

I am not so much a Keynesian as you might think. In fact i have more than 50% of my real life assets in physical gold. I think that sais enough. Oh and one my personal rules in life is never to borrow any money for that is what makes you a slave

But it is not true that it serves only the rich. In fact, as inflation devalues your savings, it hurts mostly the rich. It is an invisible tax on wealth, not on income. We, the poor should be happy about that.

And it does work to grow the economy. The Keynesian system does work wonderfully. The only reason that i am not a Keynesian is that indeed, the system depends on growth, endless growth. It cant be endless so it must collapse at some point. But until then, it is the system that made our western society rule the world and live in wealth. I think too many people here in the western world overlook that fact. They complain and complain about everything, the economy, whats in their food, the pharmaceutics etc... But they all fail to see that it has brought us unprecedented wealth, luxury and longevity. (I would say health, but you may be from the US where the majority is vastly overweight so....)
The only thing to complain about imo is what we do to our world, how unfair we are to the poorer parts of the world and the fact that it is all not endlessly sustainable.

All together, maybe i should add that you should not put too much weight to statements like i made about inflation being good for us all. I am not much a black or white believer. (Keynesian vs Austrian or whatever other field) I just like to balance things out by pointing in the other direction when i think other people are leaning towards one side. And espescially i wanted to point out that it is useless to find something to blame (inflation, the rich, whatever) but instead better to work with the situation that is and make the best of it.

Unknown · May 2014

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Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear · May 2014

For as long as auto-botting remains unrestricted and there is no coin sink that is capable of removing the billions of coins that botting is dumping into the game economy every week, inflation is just never going to stop.

Unknown · May 2014

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Sevchenko - Dreamweaver · May 2014

Its simple: More people BUYING gold from AH = Gold gets more expensive = Everything gets hell expensive.

More People SELLING gold from AH = Gold gets cheaper = Everything gets cheaper.

Means, if we have a bad broken economy, its because less people have been cashing in for this broken bad game. b:bye

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

A few things off the top of my head

Remove the bots

Add an NPC that sells potions, charms, and rep, and hypers.

Remove tokens of best luck

Put some low level orbs in the nation wars token exchange system (maybe up to +5, can't be combined) or put in an NPC that sells them.

To compensate for lowering token value from packs, up the percentage of winning anything else. But only marginally to retain the value of things like SOT.

^ this sounds much rational.

But, business wise would break a lot of the "You are all poor maggots, cash in or die!" atmosphere present in game.

What Kalopsia said is true: Gold prices are very high mainly because of War Avatar Catalysts.

naddan · May 2014

I believe a good way to fix the economy is by erasing ingame coins permanently by adding things worth buying/using it on. An I idea that a few friends of mine were talking about would be buying event gold for ingame coins, for example: 10mill coins will give you 30 event gold which can be used to buy hp/mp charms etc (before they erased it obviously) and adding other items to the event boutique would help the process better.
IF you were capable to buy things like teles, GS, hp/mp food etc in event boutique then tokens would be less of a value as well as the ingame coins will be completely erased and will no longer control how much gold is worth. If you lets say had 1 event gold for 1 GS or 10 event gold for 11 GS, you would still be selling GS for a reasonable ingame price and will most likely get more activity when it comes to PVP since GS is lesser expensive.

As long as we have the ability to produce this much ingame coins but none to take it out, the economy will go more and more sour.

CoinFarmer - Lost City · May 2014

(As DemansPsy)
I don't understand why there so much hate for auto-cultivating, I have a char auto-cultivating for close to 20 hours per day, one shoting lv 150 mobs. You know how much it makes a day? Less than 5 mil and that's only because it's end game geared (3r9+12 with S cards), another char i use sometimes barely makes 3mil. Compared to say a token of best luck that immediately adds 5mil coin, excitement cards that add 5mil or TW that adds what, like 500mil a week, I don't really think auto-cultivating is adding as much coin as you guys think.

TZoner - Raging Tide · May 2014

PWE could always set a cap on gold and token sale prices...i have heard from someone that they have done it before. But given PWE's current irl market situation i almost think they would rather the cost of gold with in game coins be higher, that way it forces people to instead buy Zen with their credit cards or at stores so they can make more money off of us. In the long run though i believe its truly the rich people of the servers that control the cost of stuff....and they manipulate it on a regular basis to suit their needs and make themself richer.

Cytte - Harshlands · May 2014

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Have an NPC sell tokens of luck for somewhat over 10k. That introduces a massive, attractive coin sink, still leaves room for token merchants to make a profit, and puts a ceiling on the price of tokens (which controls prices of many other popular items in game, such as teleacoustics, crab meat, herb yuanxiao, and various pages.)

I'm gonna go with agreeing to this idea.

Can the inflated economy be reversed?

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