Modify Current debuff mechanics
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Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »Elimination bleed effect does Indeed deal a very decent amount of damage (even more with Tangling Mire, which XXHotXx insists on saying is "Nerfed and useless")
With 3k weapon damage (From average S cards+R9+12) its roughly 27k damage in 2 ticks (for demon version), with 85% damage reduction (a speculative average value) its around 4k damage per tick. It is a strong DoT. But, i wouldn't expect less from a skill which description starts with
"Go in for a KILLING strike, ..."
elimination dot damage not really make op the skill since 27k base damage *3,2=86.4k adding with later 90% crit mostly all hit criting became 172.8k and still we didnt added rage damage and zerk hits by a skill what got decent low cooldown and chi gain, the dot only just a piece to it.....
btw aren't have pvp reduction what make 4k => 1k? btw without refined just simple s card r9 3rd+12 weapon dmg is 3.1kish so 9x3.1kish is around 28k with pvp penalty /4 and pdef reduction % became alot less0 -
Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »elimination dot damage not really make op the skill since 27k base damage *3,2=86.4k adding with later 90% crit mostly all hit criting became 172.8k and still we didnt added rage damage and zerk hits by a skill what got decent low cooldown and chi gain, the dot only just a piece to it.....
btw aren't have pvp reduction what make 4k => 1k? btw without refined just simple s card r9 3rd+12 weapon dmg is 3.1kish so 9x3.1kish is around 28k with pvp penalty /4 and pdef reduction % became alot less
Yes indeed, so does the 172.8k damage get nerfed to about 43,2k, disconsidering both att and def levels AND target's phys defense value (which nerfs by about 85 to 90%) (Thus about 6,4k damage, disconsidering Att/Def levels) (In a speculative scenario where Att level is higher than def lv by 50 (full Deities), that would be roughly 9,0k total skill damage. No debuffs, no purge, no amp, no nothing.)
With 50 att levels above def levels, purge, tangling mire, sage subsea strike that would be about:
43,2k * 0.2 (supposing 80% damage reduction from purge+mire) * 1.5 (from att lv) * 1.5 (from subsea) and thats about = 20,46k total skill damage.
Looking this way I would conclude: Elimination is extremely effective with proper debuffs, furthermore: Debuffs mechanics are not so broken afterall.
And really, sage chill + sage subsea are indeed a strong combination.
And for the "Hah, but sparked its monsterous!" argument: Even a condensed thorn or an auto-attack is monstruous when you're sparked.
Lets again look at the name of this skill Elimination and how does its description start "Go in for a KILLING strike, ...". For the first time, the description is fairly accurate.[S.E.V.C.H.E.N.K.O]
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Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »Looking this way I would conclude: Elimination is extremely effective with proper debuffs, furthermore: Debuffs mechanics are not so broken afterall.
And really, sage chill + sage subsea are indeed a strong combination.
.
if not broken, then could i ask something? did u ever tryed any non genie class debuff after primal vs maxed passive?
i mean not in here, i mean in game?
since other debuff non base defence based its mean nerfed kinda non comparable more vs base debuff, thats why i started test it instead only just math,,,,
what the result?
the wizz debuff what 60% debuff and cost time to castunbuffed sin
16957 mdef
79.64% - 20.36% reicived dmg
4893 dmg
cleric buffed sin
17916 mdef
82.52% - 17.48% reicived dmg
5011 dmg
after debuffed by on buffed sin with udine strike - 60% mdef (i talk only about earth/fire/water)
16957 mdef
79.64% - 20.36% reicived dmg
4906 dmg
how effective the 60% debuff could u explain to me? then what about archer metal debuff and other stuff?
mainly what about vs caster who got a ton more mdef with passive?
what about when this passive increased to lv10?
u say it isn't broken the defence debuff? for me seems kinda enough broken compared with direct skill dmg amplify like hf or sub sea or e. poison what allways boost with same amount....
to me look like the udine strike with 60% debuff on cleric buffed sin increase dmg by 16%... hm... so op, mainly if we try after passive 10 and vs more mag point (10 mag=1.2% mdef 300=>36% another +3 level passive even nerf double the udine strike)
then talk about about archer debuff and test it...0 -
Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »if not broken, then could i ask something? did u ever tryed any non genie class debuff after primal vs maxed passive?
i mean not in here, i mean in game?
since other debuff non base defence based its mean nerfed kinda non comparable more vs base debuff, thats why i started test it instead only just math,,,,
what the result?
the wizz debuff what 60% debuff and cost time to cast
how effective the 60% debuff could u explain to me? then what about archer metal debuff and other stuff?
Its gear value: Full buffs/passives one will have about 240% gear value defenses, with a 60% gear value defenses MINUS it means 180% gear value defenses.
If gear value is 20000, full buffs/passives would be 48000 and buffs+passives+60% debuff would be 36000. For physical resistance, full buffs equal 300% gear value (disconsidering self-buffs like barbs shapeshifting and wiz stone barrier for example)
mainly what about vs caster who got a ton more mdef with passive?
what about when this passive increased to lv10?
u say it isn't broken? for me seems kinda enough broken
I would say: Flat 35% tangling mire would give assassins the "Godly power" of killing 1 person every 15 seconds, as long as they could keep themselves alive. Shadow Jump Tangling Mire Elimination -> Shadow Jump Subsea Strike Elimination -> repeat
No, ty xD[S.E.V.C.H.E.N.K.O]
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Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »I would say: Flat 35% tangling mire would give assassins the "Godly power" of killing 1 person every 15 seconds, as long as they could keep themselves alive. Shadow Jump Tangling Mire Elimination -> Shadow Jump Subsea Strike Elimination -> repeat
No, ty xDhow effective the 60% debuff could u explain to me? then what about archer metal debuff and other stuff?
mainly what about vs caster who got a ton more mdef with passive?
what about when this passive increased to lv10?
u say it isn't broken the defence debuff? for me seems kinda enough broken compared with direct skill dmg amplify like hf or sub sea or e. poison what allways boost with same amount....
to me look like the udine strike with 60% debuff on cleric buffed sin increase dmg by 16%... hm... so op, mainly if we try after passive 10 and vs more mag point (10 mag=1.2% mdef 300=>36% another +3 level passive even nerf double the udine strike)
then talk about about archer debuff and test it...
u talk about genie tanglire mire debuff, and we talk about rest 7 main class debuff+rest from sage what old race got...
(wizz 1, cleric 2, bm 1, barb 2, archer 1 then the sage effect debuffs etc)
this way we can talk well0 -
Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »u talk about genie tanglire mire debuff, and we talk about rest 7 main class debuff+rest from sage what old race got...
(wizz 1, cleric 2, bm 1, barb 2, archer 1 then the sage effect debuffs etc)
this way we can talk well
b:laugh This is almost laughable really.
Think of a psychic against a 380%-gear-value earth resistance Wizard with few demon skills to reduce earth resistance (and mostly weak) debuffs to counter x)
The point is not how debuffs are weak, but how full buffs+passives people get high % gear value.
If we sum up Base gear + 60% gear + 60% gear + 80% gear + 150% gear we end with a wizard, which full buffed has 350% of his base gear values in defenses. And 35% debuff on that means bringing him down to 315% of his gear value (still over 3 times his gear value). And that's how debuffs are 'nerfed', but for sake of giving a longer lasting PvP I believe.
Really, imagine an Elimination or even a zerkcrit earthen rift or Gemini-slash over 90% flat phys resistance reduction from glacial spike? That would be ridiculous OP.
Now imagine a bm with 90% flat Demon Glacial Spike quick White tea to 100% crit HF = AoE murderation? More OP than sin xD[S.E.V.C.H.E.N.K.O]
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Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »b:laugh This is almost laughable really.
Think of a psychic against a 380%-gear-value earth resistance Wizard with few demon skills to reduce earth resistance (and mostly weak) debuffs to counter x)
The point is not how debuffs are weak, but how full buffs+passives people get high % gear value.
If we sum up Base gear + 60% gear + 60% gear + 80% gear + 150% gear we end with a wizard, which full buffed has 350% of his base gear values in defenses. And 35% debuff on that means bringing him down to 315% of his gear value (still over 3 times his gear value). And that's how debuffs are 'nerfed', but for sake of giving a longer lasting PvP I believe.
Really, imagine an Elimination or even a zerkcrit earthen rift or Gemini-slash over 90% flat phys resistance reduction from glacial spike? That would be ridiculous OP.
Now imagine a bm with 90% flat Demon Glacial Spike quick White tea to 100% crit HF = AoE murderation? More OP than sin xD
longer to sin. psy and less longer to wizz lol
u talk about glacial spark what count like worthless until u run away when someone hfed u, not interesting this balance?
btw what happen when u get flat 0 pdef by demon veno? it is rare but could happen, aint more stronger than purge from archer? this make veno op? not really since predictable...
image that bm but also image that bm got not instant sparks, neither 30% mobility what sin got and now image that when sin sage deity CoD+3rd spark+sub sea+wolf emblem+maze step+ironguard potion and do elimination or earthrift and zerk crit, what more annoying? coz not harder than do that combo with bm
and even bm did it u could press AD, but iron\guard powder is 12sec long not 5..
how would u like if a day dec team think a nice and reduce ur weapon damage by 35%? kinda in dmg output that happened with udined damage or halved vs caster, so how u feeel if once dev team reduce ur dmg vs melee classs by 50%?0 -
Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »longer to sin. psy and less longer to wizz lol
u talk about glacial spark what count like worthless until u run away when someone hfed u, not interesting this balance?
btw what happen when u get flat 0 pdef by demon veno? it is rare but could happen, aint more stronger than purge from archer? this make veno op? not really since predictable...
Not really, currently Redstone venomworm is for 180% but works for bringing targets pdef from 300% of his base gear value to 120% of it (yes, like more than 50% effective, but still)
image that bm but also image that bm got not instant sparks, neither 30% mobility what sin got and now image that when sin sage deity CoD+3rd spark+sub sea+wolf emblem+maze step+ironguard potion and do elimination or earthrift and zerk crit, what more annoying? coz not harder than do that combo with bm and even bm did it u could press AD, but iron\guard powder is 12sec long not 5..
This is what i'm saying. If debuffs worked on a global/flat basis how XXHotXx suggested, Glacial Spike+HF would be seriously OP.
how would u like if a day dec team think a nice and reduce ur weapon damage by 35%? kinda in dmg output that happened with udined damage or halved vs caster, so how u feeel if once dev team reduce ur dmg vs melee classs by 50%?
I think we could KEEP the current debuff mechanics and rework class skill (incl. Sage/Demon effects) defense reductions in this fashion:
20% to 30%
35% to 50%
50% to 72%
60% to 87%
100% to 140%
and so on... Except Redstone Venomworm and Sage/Demon Glacial spike which are already changed (Glacial spike used to be 50% now its 90% phys, should raise from 60% mag reduction to 72% too, to pair up with passives)
Would revalue a bit the debuffs and so, BUT these reworks should not be done to Tangling Mire, Spark and other def reduction genie skills.[S.E.V.C.H.E.N.K.O]
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Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »I think we could KEEP the current debuff mechanics and rework class skill (incl. Sage/Demon effects) defense reductions in this fashion:
20% to 30%
35% to 50%
50% to 72%
100% to 140%
and so on... Except Redstone Venomworm and Sage/Demon Glacial spike which are already changed (Glacial spike used to be 50% now its 90% phys, should raise from 60% mag reduction to 72% too, to pair up with passives)
Would revalue a bit the debuffs and so, BUT these reworks should not be done to Tangling Mire, Spark and other def reduction genie skills.
since the passive defence is addtive i guess harder rescale the debuff than simple increase by a bit0 -
shadow u should stop reply to this guy he is just an amazing troll and he is filling up the forums with loads of bs
![:\](https://forum.arcgames.com/pwi/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
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mypers.pw/1.7/#123524
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XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »shadow u should stop reply to this guy he is just an amazing troll and he is filling up the forums with loads of bs
Well, i didnt suggest flat/global based debuffs allowing BMs to zerkcrit an absurd ammount with GS+HF b:laugh it was you.Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »since the passive defence is addtive i guess harder rescale the debuff than simple increase by a bit
Now, thats what i said back there, i was rescaling each percentage by 45% (while defense passives are 80%, still defense passives will work as intended (giving more resistance) while giving the debuffs slightly more strength to keep up with it. I don't think genie debuffs should be rescaled for, I use tangling mire and for a class with no defense debuffs like mine it's strong enough already, would be further strong for classes like bm.
IF things were flat/global based like XXHotXx king of trolls suggested, BM would drop 90% barb's defense with glacial spike, plus 35% with tangling mire (thus thrashing all defense passives, buffs, tiger form everything) and applying a 100% crit (if Demon GS procs) HF (which itself already gets amped), and possible of zerk probably 1-shotting the barb in that manner from 4 to 8 times base HF damage in a person with nearly 0 defense.) (And everyone around, because this would be massive AoE 1-shot combo). Imagine a Deity BM running around with XXHotXx's genius idea... Imagine how overpowered would a Deity sin with tangling mire+subsea elimination be? Or how sick Tangling Mire+Devour -> Armageddon could get?[S.E.V.C.H.E.N.K.O]
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Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »Well, i didnt suggest flat/global based debuffs allowing BMs to zerkcrit an absurd ammount with GS+HF b:laugh it was you.
Now, thats what i said back there, i was rescaling each percentage by 45% (while defense passives are 80%, still defense passives will work as intended (giving more resistance) while giving the debuffs slightly more strength to keep up with it. I don't think genie debuffs should be rescaled for, I use tangling mire and for a class with no defense debuffs like mine it's strong enough already, would be further strong for classes like bm.
IF things were flat/global based like XXHotXx king of trolls suggested, BM would drop 90% barb's defense with glacial spike, plus 35% with tangling mire (thus thrashing all defense passives, buffs, tiger form everything) and applying a 100% crit (if Demon GS procs) HF (which itself already gets amped), and possible of zerk probably 1-shotting the barb in that manner from 4 to 8 times base HF damage in a person with nearly 0 defense.) (And everyone around, because this would be massive AoE 1-shot combo). Imagine a Deity BM running around with XXHotXx's genius idea... Imagine how overpowered would a Deity sin with tangling mire+subsea elimination be? Or how sick Tangling Mire+Devour -> Armageddon could get?
barb/veno here enough bad example, since in fb69 the boss even u get a billion pdef reduce to 0... this true until u arent in tiger form, i noticed if u in tiger form then ur pdef still over 15k's what over 73% pdef reduction vs 0
i guess boss debuff is flat, so interesting, my ideea make flat and non flat so work vs primal + defence from stat points too but not vs class buff like cleric buff, cleric buff (in pdef case bm buff, wizz, mystic etc) could stay additive buff, this way u forced to use buff's and dont became neglible slowly by increased the primals0 -
Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »barb/veno here enough bad example, since in fb69 the boss even u get a billion pdef reduce to 0... this true until u arent in tiger form, i noticed if u in tiger form then ur pdef still over 15k's what over 73% pdef reduction vs 0
i guess boss debuff is flat, so interesting, my ideea make flat and non flat so work vs primal + defence from stat points too but not vs class buff like cleric buff, cleric buff (in pdef case bm buff, wizz, mystic etc) could stay additive buff, this way u forced to use buff's and dont became neglible slowly by increased the primals
Boss debuff isn't flat I guess (if so would bypass tiger form too), just a High % gear value (when debuff % is higher than 100%+buffs then game just assumes 0% gear value (instead of negative defense))
I think we could strengthen skill debuffs by 50% (means 100% debuff value goes to 150% debuff, 20% to 30%, 50% to 75% and so on) Leave genie debuffs as is.
MAAYBE, JUST MAYBE, the only flat debuff I think could exist is Myriad Rainbow and demon ironwood/redstone. Because that's where venomancers used to excel in the past and they're the most nerfed class in this aspect: Demon ironwood description still says "Reduce enemy defense TO ZERO, at cost of only 20% chance of procing.", while demon Redstone says clearly: Reduce enemy defense by 180% gear value at 20% chance procing.
I'm just here expressing my idea and WHY I do disagree with "Rework Debuff Mechanics."[S.E.V.C.H.E.N.K.O]
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I for one am really glad we got these passives, we all benefit from it, and I am sure it has prevented numerous one shots, it was NOT fun getting owned repeatedly, and often as a melee who has to be up close, and therefore open to a lot more ganks than ranged/caster classes.
Its not like we only got defensive passives either, we also all got a passive that increases our skill damage, again available to one and all, regardless of class.
Sure it sucks that the debuff's were affected so much, but meh i'll gladly take this 'bad', if it means less one shots nigh regardless of gear. (Less being the keyword) \/ Edit \/
(Meant to hit enter and separate these two... points.)
Obviously I still get one shotted now and then, but I for one don't feel as... useless on my bm after getting all the passives leveled up that we had available to us, still despite that I will never forget just how much of a pain in the *** it was... and arguably still is on a bm while in mass pvp/undergeared. (Yes its a pain in the *** while undergeared on every class, but I really believe still today that it is most painfully on a bm while undergeared.)
Either way that is as far as I go into that.... little discussion.
My point for bringing that up, is that I have noticed just how much easier it is to live a little longer with all these passives/even some slight... gear upgrades. (Though yes as I said/am implying I still die quite often, still way less than before the NH expansion, which I for one think is an absolute win) I think the gap in gear has actually taken quite the hit thanks to all the passives/cards, which is an absolute win as well. xD
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Two other skills that are essentially effected by the NH update are:
Frighten - Barbarian
Myriad Sword Stance - Blademaster
- Reason why they're effected is due to the fact that there is a passive that boosts skill damage, albeit not as much as the defensive ones, but still they are essentially effected by the new passives, just in an opposite way than the 'debuffs' that effect defensive stats.Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »I for one am really glad we got these passives, we all benefit from it, and I am sure it has prevented numerous one shots, it was NOT fun getting owned repeatedly, and often as a melee who has to be up close, and therefore open to a lot more ganks than ranged/caster classes.
Its not like we only got defensive passives either, we also all got a passive that increases our skill damage, again available to one and all, regardless of class.
Sure it sucks that the debuff's were affected so much, but meh i'll gladly take this 'bad', if it means less one shots nigh regardless of gear. (Less being the keyword) Obviously I still get one shotted now and then, but I for one don't feel as... useless on my bm after getting all the passives leveled up that we had available to us, still despite that I will never forget just how much of a pain in the *** it was... and arguably still is on a bm while in mass pvp/undergeared. (Yes its a pain in the *** while undergeared on every class, but I really believe still today that it is most painfully on a bm while undergeared.)
Either way that is as far as I go into that.... little discussion.
My point for bringing that up, is that I have noticed just how much easier it is to live a little longer with all these passives/even some slight... gear upgrades. (Though yes as I said/am implying I still die quite often, still way less than before the NH expansion, which I for one think is an absolute win) I think the gap in gear has actually taken quite the hit thanks to all the passives/cards, which is an absolute win as well. xD
--
Two other skills that are essentially effected by the NH update are:
Frighten - Barbarian
Myriad Sword Stance - Blademaster
- Reason why they're effected is due to the fact that there is a passive that boosts skill damage, albeit not as much as the defensive ones, but still they are essentially effected by the new passives, just in an opposite way than the 'debuffs' that effect defensive stats.
i think ervery class who undergeared is 1 shot indifferent or bm, still bm ahve alot advantage in 1svs1 before primal with marrows because before nh marrow worth more than now0 -
Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »i think ervery class who undergeared is 1 shot indifferent or bm, still bm ahve alot advantage in 1svs1 before primal with marrows because before nh marrow worth more than now
Never said anything about bms being the only one 1 shottable, as I said I believe that the passives has played quite the role in weakening the attacks of everyone, be they melee, or magical, which is a win for everyone regardless of their class.
Edit: I can see how it may have been implied, but yea... I definitely agree with you.... you even bolded what I said yourself... not entirely sure why you felt the need to 'correct' me in that regard, either way, sorry for the confusion.
Regardless of the bolded key word of that sentence of yours... I still disagree, I think that marrows have been helped out quite a bit thanks to the defense passives. More physical defense, as well as more magical defense, that helps reduce the sting of that double edge sword that were... and still is marrows.Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »Never said anything about bms being the only one 1 shottable, as I said I believe that the passives has played quite the role in weakening the attacks of everyone, be they melee, or magical, which is a win for everyone regardless of their class.
Regardless of the bolded key word of that sentence of yours... I still disagree, I think that marrows have been helped out quite a bit thanks to the defense passives. More physical defense, as well as more magical defense, that helps reduce the sting of that double edge sword that were... and still is marrows.
I believe the person you quoted is a wizzard as main. That explains a lot. It's the class that went from easy mode to pretty much random AA DD. I consider passives mainly a win for squad play. It increases the role of weaker players, which I find very enjoyable. With today's crit rate, I find the ability to charm overwrite silly. Having some static combo or proc that is life threatening on equal geared targets that are fully buffed and in squad with support gave to much importance to some classes. Now it's just sins that can I suppose.0 -
marrow was enough before primal too vs casters but now ur pdef marrow dont give that much advantage than before, every high defence thinf a bit less effective because of dmg reduction curve and ur pdef buff same like wizz mdef buff kinda alot less useless since now it is over 95% reduction but since cap it is reduced to 95% but cooldown/duration etc untouched.Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »Never said anything about bms being the only one 1 shottable, as I said I believe that the passives has played quite the role in weakening the attacks of everyone, be they melee, or magical, which is a win for everyone regardless of their class.
Edit: I can see how it may have been implied, but yea... I definitely agree with you.... you even bolded what I said yourself... not entirely sure why you felt the need to 'correct' me in that regard, either way, sorry for the confusion.
Regardless of the bolded key word of that sentence of yours... I still disagree, I think that marrows have been helped out quite a bit thanks to the defense passives. More physical defense, as well as more magical defense, that helps reduce the sting of that double edge sword that were... and still is marrows.
if u see around, now u take less damage when unbuffed ur bm but more if full buffed (difference not too high but noticeable) than before primal where u was weak unbuffed and more stronger full buffed...
(about bolded line, i was once shoted aswell by psy even i was caster with r9 vs 3rd r9 psy, i don't even talk about sin or something, this is where the game going, allways boost and boost and at end new player will do 10 dmg on end game player with tt gear....or even less)0 -
Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »marrow was enough before primal too vs casters but now ur pdef marrow dont give that much advantage than before, every high defence thinf a bit less effective because of dmg reduction curve and ur pdef buff same like wizz mdef buff kinda alot less useless since now it is over 95% reduction but since cap it is reduced to 95% but cooldown/duration etc untouched.
if u see around, now u take less damage when unbuffed ur bm but more if full buffed (difference not too high but noticeable) than before primal where u was weak unbuffed and more stronger full buffed...
(about bolded line, i was once shoted aswell by psy even i was caster with r9 vs 3rd r9 psy, i don't even talk about sin or something, this is where the game going, allways boost and boost and at end new player will do 10 dmg on end game player with tt gear....or even less)
For 1 on 1's yes marrows were, and still are phenomenal, but in mass pvp they were... and arguably still are to a smaller extent nothing more than a double edged sword, while undergeared anyways. There are far too many people out there with badass weapons/gear... a bm can not absorb damage, it isn't a full fledged tank, it is indeed a support class, which I know for a fact SEVERAL bms found it to be too hard/annoying to be a support, and went with a much easier/arguably far more relaxing class to be on.
There seems to be a misunderstanding, or something, because as that part you bolded yourself points out I know full well that any class CAN one shot others/be one shotted by their own class even. (Which I find to be absolutely wrong... and it also seems to have taken quite the hit to that thanks to the defensive passives.)
....
This all seems slightly off topic/geared towards just one class, it effects all classes not just bm and their marrows, I for one believe that the passives have done quite the nice job of preventing numerous one shots regardless of class/gear, which is indeed a win in my book.
I really do believe that this game needs to get away from the one shots as much as possible, or they'll risk losing more and more people... albeit only gradually, still though getting owned/one shotted constantly is NOT fun, likewise it shouldn't be all that fun to be constantly one shotting others... but I guess to a few it is on both fronts, though I am thinking that there are more people who like to do the one shotting, than there are of people who like to get one shotted constantly/not be of help to others.Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »For 1 on 1's yes marrows were, and still are phenomenal, but in mass pvp they were... and arguably still are to a smaller extent nothing more than a double edged sword, while undergeared anyways. There are far too many people out there with badass weapons/gear... a bm can not absorb damage, it isn't a full fledged tank, it is indeed a support class, which I know for a fact SEVERAL bms found it to be too hard/annoying to be a support, and went with a much easier/arguably far more relaxing class to be on.
There seems to be a misunderstanding, or something, because as that part you bolded yourself points out I know full well that any class CAN one shot others/be one shotted by their own class even. (Which I find to be absolutely wrong... and it also seems to have taken quite the hit to that thanks to the defensive passives.)
....
This all seems slightly off topic/geared towards just one class, it effects all classes not just bm and their marrows, I for one believe that the passives have done quite the nice job of preventing numerous one shots regardless of class/gear, which is indeed a win in my book.
I really do believe that this game needs to get away from the one shots as much as possible, or they'll risk losing more and more people... albeit only gradually, still though getting owned/one shotted constantly is NOT fun, likewise it shouldn't be all that fun to be constantly one shotting others... but I guess to a few it is on both fronts, though I am thinking that there are more people who like to do the one shotting, than there are of people who like to get one shotted constantly/not be of help to others.
what i want pointed out in that time was able kill with one shot egually gear only 1. u was self buffed or 2. u was sin, now example 2 josd wizz cant kill each other, or 2 psy etc (so not zerk depend class's) or just take 30min but now also debuff based casters got harder time vs melee's (included sin) but same time other class with crit+zerk effect have alot more chance for killing u and that dont need time like class based debuff what was main subject of topic, egually geared full buffed bm is far from 1hit with 3rd josd before primal too, atleast if we check the videos from bm section
(except if lost the buffs and was heavy debuffed and in pass pvp everyone die if focus, thats the point in more people focus 1 [till similiar or egually geared])0 -
Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »what i want pointed out in that time was able kill with one shot egually gear only 1. u was self buffed or 2. u was sin, now example 2 josd wizz cant kill each other, or 2 psy etc (so not zerk depend class's) or just take 30min but now also debuff based casters got harder time vs melee's (included sin) but same time other class with crit+zerk effect have alot more chance for killing u and that dont need time like class based debuff what was main subject of topic, egually geared full buffed bm is far from 1hit with 3rd josd before primal too, atleast if we check the videos from bm section
(except if lost the buffs and was heavy debuffed and in pass pvp everyone die if focus, thats the point in more people focus 1 [till similiar or egually geared])
point is there is even a greater unbalance now between the debuff-based classes and the amp-based classes
the gap between sins, psys, bms, seekers "amped damage" and wizards, venos, archers etch "debuffed damage" is way too large
i get almost double damage from a psy in black voodoo than a 3sparked archer critted thunder shock (at same value of ele res)
thats not right :^)mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
mypers.pw/1.7/#123524
i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg0 -
XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »point is there is even a greater unbalance now between the debuff-based classes and the amp-based classes
the gap between sins, psys, bms, seekers "amped damage" and wizards, venos, archers etch "debuffed damage" is way too large
i get almost double damage from a psy in black voodoo than a 3sparked archer critted thunder shock (at same value of ele res)
thats not right :^)
i know that, already posted the damage test in wizz section vs sin (no primal unbuffed/no primal cleiic buffed,primal no buffed, primal cleric buffed and all with udined/sparked or normal)
maybe best solution modify the udine strike to amplify skill like 40% vs caster and 30% vs others for get same result than was when they introduced the skill0 -
XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »point is there is even a greater unbalance now between the debuff-based classes and the amp-based classes
the gap between sins, psys, bms, seekers "amped damage" and wizards, venos, archers etch "debuffed damage" is way too large
i get almost double damage from a psy in black voodoo than a 3sparked archer critted thunder shock (at same value of ele res)
thats not right :^)
Thunder Shock deals negligible amount of damage, psychic skills have more skill damage AND psychics have more mag attack than archers have physical attack. I think comparing archer to psychic in terms of magic damage is quite "not right :^)"[S.E.V.C.H.E.N.K.O]
Synthetic Electronic Variant Calibrated for Hazardous Exploration, Nullification and Kamikaze Observation[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »Thunder Shock deals negligible amount of damage, psychic skills have more skill damage AND psychics have more mag attack than archers have physical attack. I think comparing archer to psychic in terms of magic damage is quite "not right :^)"
Says something about skill balance among classes though don't you think? Thunder Shock is not particularly weak as far as archer skills go.Current: http://mypers.pw/1.8/#133167
105-103-102
TW/NW Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Axel3200
Some people get R93 and become another cookiecutter DD, other people get R93 and get called out as serious threats. At some point, it's just not about gear anymore. - Qui
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »Thunder Shock deals negligible amount of damage, psychic skills have more skill damage AND psychics have more mag attack than archers have physical attack. I think comparing archer to psychic in terms of magic damage is quite "not right :^)"
really i am trying avoid to reply your comments but seriously... there is some major facepalms when i read certain things...
thunder shock as ion spike uses p atk value to calculate elemental damage...
it calculates a metal damage output considering the base physical damage, so its not negligible amount of damage xD
and its a basic skill...
Thunder Shock: base physical damage plus 4238. (As metal damage) Deafens the
target, reducing Metal Resistance by 50% for 25 seconds
Aqua Impact:base magic damage plus 100%
of weapon damage plus 3573 as Water
damage
endgame archer base patk is near to 45k
endgame psychic base matk is near to 35k
Thunder Shock = 45000 + 4238 = 50000 metal damage
Aqua Impact = 35000 + 3000 + 3574 = 40000 water damage
a 3sparked thundershock is near to 70000 metal damage
now that black voodoo (25 atk lvl more) works in a way that 40000 water damage
will have a better damage output on your target than a 50% metal res debuffed 70000 metal damage
mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
mypers.pw/1.7/#123524
i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg0 -
You forgot that magical mastery isn't included in base magic attack. You'd have to add 25% damage to the psychic. Also that 45000 seems a little high unless we're talking about sage archers with maxed S cards or something.XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »endgame archer base patk is near to 45k
endgame psychic base matk is near to 35k
Thunder Shock = 45000 + 4238 = 50000 metal damage
Aqua Impact = 35000 + 3000 + 3574 = 40000 water damage
a 3sparked thundershock is near to 70000 metal damage
[sigpic][/sigpic]
PWI Calculators - aster.ohmydays.net/pw0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
You forgot that magical mastery isn't included in base magic attack. You'd have to add 25% damage to the psychic. Also that 45000 seems a little high unless we're talking about sage archers with maxed S cards or something.
yup and yup
well the point to all this is still that the gap between amps and debuffs is huge atmmypers.pw/1.7/#123510
mypers.pw/1.7/#123524
i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
You forgot that magical mastery isn't included in base magic attack. You'd have to add 25% damage to the psychic. Also that 45000 seems a little high unless we're talking about sage archers with maxed S cards or something.
idk but i know sage psy with 45k cleric buffed mattack without S set only 2 s card with nearly no leveling, simple over 900 mag (idk exactly with how much more than 900 but more from 3x105+nw tome+stat from r9 3rd) and r9 3rd+120 -
Ohh ya forgot demon barb buff. I guess you could include that + NW pot + attack charms when talking about attack.Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »idk but i know sage psy with 45k cleric buffed mattack without S set only 2 s card with nearly no leveling, simple over 900 mag (idk exactly with how much more than 900 but more from 3x105+nw tome+stat from r9 3rd) and r9 3rd+12[sigpic][/sigpic]
PWI Calculators - aster.ohmydays.net/pw0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
Ohh ya forgot demon barb buff. I guess you could include that + NW pot + attack charms when talking about attack.
well i meant most easy to get cleric buff and even someone not 105 with charms but cleric buff most of time on on casters0
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