New genie meta

XXHotXx - Morai · April 2014

Seen the major changes in the debuff mechanics i started to adapt a new genie meta

http://aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html#skills=0410151e273136&lev=105&lp=88

@ 5 154 5 3

i believe its the only way to counter passives, also 45% spammable wind shield

undine+spark = theorical 198% fire res debuff (tested still reduces my archer friend buffed mag res from 21k to 6k (60% damage reduction))

ep for sof users
frenzy for aoes

discuss. b:pleased

drheal · April 2014

I have found that in TW/PK, my biggest challenge is to survive. Honestly, I can pretty much kill most classes(except marrowed BMs).

My biggest issues are:

1. Purge. My survivability drops alot and I pretty much die too fast.

2. Demon Ironwood scarab from Veno ignores all defenses, passive, def lvls, ALL

Demon version only has a 20% chance to weaken
the target, but reduces Physical Defense to 0.

I get hit for 30/40k per hit.

3. BMs new primal disable that has 6 sec duration with 15 sec cd. What the ** is that? And you cannot use anti-stun against it, and purify does NOTHING to it.

4. Assasins. Not to mention their great CC and occult ice combo bot they got some pretty awesome skills in terms of damagedealing. 3 spaking 3 times per minute and using tidal and dew star they can pretty much chop all classes. It is sick.

I am the only wizard on RT that regularly PKs and these new challenges force me to forget any offensive genie skills and save my genie for my survival.

XXHotXx - Morai · April 2014

i did nation wars with such genie yesterday, having its pros and cons

i will upload a video soon

still i expected something better from a 155 dex genie, i was hitting undine spark on buffed r9 immaculate seeker like 8-9k baaaaad bad bad

XXHotXx - Morai · April 2014

ok this is nation wars video using 155 dex spark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5W5u7E6SB0

as you can see i struggle to hit double digits even on targets that aren't josd S cards not even prolly full +10

that seeker takes 8-9k hits after undine spark and he is like +10 vit

only big hit i did was that 38k on that barb that btw is a non-sharded low refined r9r3

i'll try more next week but if i wont dish out decent damage i believe at that point spark will be obsolete confirmed and would be better to have a vit mag genie with fist+ep+frenzy

shik1791 · April 2014

It is certainly a very interesting dilemma and changing to a Vit/Mag genie is definitely more viable now. I would just be worried about losing the other benefits you got from a dex build. Nigh on 100% badge, AFA and extended fortify are all great qualities that cant be easily thrown away.

Although it is a worry that we have 1-2 skills on our genie dedicated to avoiding stuns, but now with the new paralyse they have become less useful, which gives credence to a vit build. More defensive capabilities but less nuking power from a V/M will make mortal reversion almost essential for killing tankier targets I feel. Increased chi from CE could also lead to more offensive use of Ice Prison for amping. (V. Situational I know.)

Would like to see you try a vit build out in a video o/ .

XXHotXx - Morai · April 2014

shik1791 wrote: »

It is certainly a very interesting dilemma and changing to a Vit/Mag genie is definitely more viable now. I would just be worried about losing the other benefits you got from a dex build. Nigh on 100% badge, AFA and extended fortify are all great qualities that cant be easily thrown away.

Although it is a worry that we have 1-2 skills on our genie dedicated to avoiding stuns, but now with the new paralyse they have become less useful, which gives credence to a vit build. More defensive capabilities but less nuking power from a V/M will make mortal reversion almost essential for killing tankier targets I feel. Increased chi from CE could also lead to more offensive use of Ice Prison for amping. (V. Situational I know.)

Would like to see you try a vit build out in a video o/ .

yup i got this ready for next nation wars

http://aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html#skills=1e273136515354&lev=104&lp=88&cls=6

but before that i ll give a last chance to the 155 dex genie i modified this way

http://aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html#skills=04101527313645&lev=105&lp=89&cls=6

ok you wont have AD and chi eruption, but you have a marvelous 155 dex AFA and a lvl 1 wind shield with 27% damage reduction,

i traded EP for AFA, anyways with such low energy and energy regen i wont be able to land it anyways

i will see next weekend how those genies will perform, anyways i am really beginning to think that this would be the best option for the near future on a 110 vit 80+mag one:

http://aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html#skills=041e2731365354&lev=105&lp=89&cls=6

drheal · April 2014

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

yup i got this ready for next nation wars

http://aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html#skills=1e273136515354&lev=104&lp=88&cls=6

but before that i ll give a last chance to the 155 dex genie i modified this way

http://aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html#skills=04101527313645&lev=105&lp=89&cls=6

ok you wont have AD and chi eruption, but you have a marvelous 155 dex AFA and a lvl 1 wind shield with 27% damage reduction,

i traded EP for AFA, anyways with such low energy and energy regen i wont be able to land it anyways

i will see next weekend how those genies will perform, anyways i am really beginning to think that this would be the best option for the near future on a 110 vit 80+mag one:

http://aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html#skills=041e2731365354&lev=105&lp=89&cls=6

You need to come play on my server. Once ur AD is gone, w/o Expel ur dead meat. The BMs and barbs will pin you down, no matter how many times you proc purify, then archers will purge and bye bye.
I find it NECESSARY for Expel nowadays.

XXHotXx - Morai · April 2014

drheal wrote: »

You need to come play on my server. Once ur AD is gone, w/o Expel ur dead meat. The BMs and barbs will pin you down, no matter how many times you proc purify, then archers will purge and bye bye.
I find it NECESSARY for Expel nowadays.

well i wish we had the pk you got on your server

the dominant TW factions' members wont pk in my server, they used to but now too afraid or i've no idea... i had to organize mixed teams pk session to bring some fun @ western outskirts...

if pk willl happen anyway i will end just being farmed by assassins... bms and barbs are annoying but they cant kill us individually,

but if the enemy team outbms outbarbs or outsins yours, then ofc as soon as you get the focus you ll be dead anyways, defensive genie or not :P

also i would bring up the insane damage mystics are now able to do...

before r9r3 mystics were **** because all their skills were base damage + 100% etch

now that the base damage is similar for all the arcane classes (40k base), their wood damage dps is insane! also absorb combo hits like a truck (and more than wizard ultimates rofl)! i was almost considering nullify poison on the genie

XXHotXx - Morai · April 2014

i think there is something wrong in the AFA damage formula,

i tested AFA with a 155 dex genie today, damage reduction expected should've been 45%

instead damage was down from 1400 to 400 (70% reduction)

just wow

i'll post a video soon

MrRiddle - Raging Tide · April 2014

afa description is wrong
check this thread been tested before
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1372701&highlight=wind+shield&page=3

Zoldi - Morai · April 2014

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

also i would bring up the insane damage mystics are now able to do...

before r9r3 mystics were **** because all their skills were base damage + 100% etch

now that the base damage is similar for all the arcane classes (40k base), their wood damage dps is insane! also absorb combo hits like a truck (and more than wizard ultimates rofl)! i was almost considering nullify poison on the genie

What do you mean exactly? I didn't get what you were referring to.

(As a sidenote several people on this forum tend to say that a mystic can't kill anyone 1v1 endgame because they don't have the spike dammages that a Wiz can have

Shadowvzss - Harshlands · April 2014

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

What do you mean exactly? I didn't get what you were referring to.

(As a sidenote several people on this forum tend to say that a mystic can't kill anyone 1v1 endgame because they don't have the spike dammages that a Wiz can have

he mean since magic points is doubled and can get 900 mag point the %eq skills useless

i give u a example.

wizard primal skill hit 800% equipment dmg +6-7k magic dmg, this do with 2 hit (base damage from character skill divided by 2, so 50% on 1st hit and 50% on 2nd hit).

if u do 2 starter skill what got 100% eq dmg and 3.5k dmg each then the 2 skill hit very similiar than the primal 800% eq dmg skill, if u 3rd spark then the 2 fast starter skill hit stronger than primal 800% eq dmg one...

reason is now alot mattack comeing from stat points, so until before new horizon things was visibale the difference between skill with 20k mattack + 300% eq (lets say 9k) dmg +6k dmg and between 20k+100%eq (3k) +6k dmg => 35k vs 29k now (40k base dmg) this is 45k vs 39k, acctually in ist example 6k dmg nearly around 17-18% difference, in current base dmg it is 12-13%, if u spark then your mattack inreased alot, so the difference alot less but casting alot more on 300% eq dmg skill than on fast starter skill

now image it with 79k or 73k damage (3rd spaked cleric buffed), the difference in skill allways same (i mean 100% weapon dmg or 300% weapon dmg, not increased by spark or anything, allways 3k vs 9k), to 79k the 6k is only 7%.... if we add minimum and amximum dmg then kinda not noticeable

Why got advantage now the mystics?
With +mag point what coming from reawaken etc, bonus defence from cards, defence from passive primal the caster vs caster hit less because magic defence now alot higher than before, same with mattack value higher aswell, here coming the mystic absorb soul, what enjoy the more mattack and ignore totally the magic defence, so basically its purly boosted because ignore the alot more defence.

XXHotXx - Morai · April 2014

MrRiddle - Raging Tide wrote: »

afa description is wrong
check this thread been tested before
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1372701&highlight=wind+shield&page=3

yes what i meant is that boogie formula might be dirtied with some algorythm i've no idea at higher dex values...

unfortunately my math sucks but i ll test more and bring up some vid

@Zoldi: what pretty much shadow said

back in time that 100% - 300% weapon damage added by skills would've made difference in skill damage

now the skill damage is all about the base magic damage (that is around 40k value for all magic classes @ endgame) i bring you an example :

Divine Pyro: base + 300% + 4903 = 40000 + 9000 + 4903 = 53903 damage

Nature's Vengeance: base + 100% + 1800 = 40000 + 3000 + 1800 = 44800 damage

Consider PvP damage reduction (75%), + target has 20000 elemental resistance (80% damage reduction)

Divine Pyro damage will be 53903 * 0,25 * 0,20 = 2695 damage

Nature's Vengeance damage will be 44800 * 0,25 * 0,20 = 2240 damage

D Pyro has 16% more damage

So the point is, since now our base magic damage value greatly overexceeded the weapon damage value,

and this thing cant even be fixed, cause if devs will increase weapon damage value to give more "weight" to the weapon damage part of the skills,
it will result in a base magic damage increase aswell (weapon damage increases base magic damage)

the damage output of a wizard and a mystic skill will be the same (at endgame),

just mystics have no channelling\cast\cooldown times and they can DPS wood damge,
wizards have huge channelling\cast\cd times and we cant

it wasnt like this in past (and its not like this @ not-endgame)
cause base mag damage was like half of 40k average value for all the classes, also the base resistances were lower than what we have now

f.e.:

D. Pyro = Pre Sirens of War base damage + 300% + 4903 = 20000 + 9000 + 4903 = 33903

Nature's Veng= Pre Sirens of War base dmg + 100% + 1800 = 20000 + 3000 + 1800 = 24800

Consider PvP reduction (75%) and Pre Sirens of War elemental resistances (70%)

Pre Sirens of War D. Pyro dmg = 33903 * 0,25 * 0,30 = 2542

Pre Sirens of War Nat. Veng dmg = 24800 * 0,25 * 0,30 = 1860

D. Pyro had 27% more damage <- and this was justifying our channelling+cast+cooldown times

now Wizard class has same damage output of every other Arcane class (@ endgame),
but still suffering these high channelling\cast\cooldown times

that dont allow us to dps our damage (all the other arcane classes can more or less DPS)

Shadowvzss - Harshlands · April 2014

and best in all dev team even increased the cooldown time for wizz

merge 2x 15 sec skill and give a 30 sec skill what also not huge dmg difference and like dph lower than water nuke a bit, so made slow casting single target dps skill from single target nuke and from aoe -> frozenflame

kelhdar · April 2014

I think you miss the point that we don't have only high cast skills. Pyrogram, Gush, Crown of Flame and Will of the Phoenix are all casted in the same amount of time Nature's Vengeance is and for more damage. Cooldowns only force us to use a Divine pyrogram sometimes.

The damage difference is still getting closer though, as you explained. And there is not yet the pet dmg in the equation.

Zoldi - Morai · April 2014

Thanks Hot and Shadow. I was trying to find what could be that op in recent Mystics update, but yeah you're right about the additional "XXX% weapon damage" being less significant with that amount of magic points.

kelhdar wrote: »

And there is not yet the pet dmg in the equation.

Pet dmg is not that important and is even kinda "dangerous" against R9.3 AA because there are then more changes for purify to proc
But leeching mistress increases damages even more

Shadowvzss - Harshlands · April 2014

kelhdar wrote: »

I think you miss the point that we don't have only high cast skills. Pyrogram, Gush, Crown of Flame and Will of the Phoenix are all casted in the same amount of time Nature's Vengeance is and for more damage. Cooldowns only force us to use a Divine pyrogram sometimes.

The damage difference is still getting closer though, as you explained. And there is not yet the pet dmg in the equation.

only them are ranged skill with same speed, rest or melee or slower (pyrogram is 1.5+0.8 vs 1+1) and hardly see peoples spam with crownflame in pvp because less dmg a bit, so mustly to gush correct the description.

Will of phoenix very nice skill, but only if u are close

btw wizzard was created to became dph not dps, that's why long ago got slow but highest dmg nuke skills from other casters.

anyway i guess even mystics do lower dmg now with nature veng. so more important the spam absorb soul with potion maybe what hurt enough well on squishies

kelhdar · April 2014

Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »

only them are ranged skill with same speed, rest or melee or slower (pyrogram is 1.5+0.8 vs 1+1) and hardly see peoples spam with crownflame in pvp because less dmg a bit, so mustly to gush correct the description.

Will of phoenix very nice skill, but only if u are close

btw wizzard was created to became dph not dps, that's why long ago got slow but highest dmg nuke skills from other casters.

anyway i guess even mystics do lower dmg now with nature veng. so more important the spam absorb soul with potion maybe what hurt enough well on squishies

Uh right, forgot only demon wizards had 1.2+0.8 Pyrogram, witch is actually better than 1+1

Phoenix is indeed a low range skill but i use it more often than i thought i would originally do.

For Crown of Flame, it is currently dealing more damage than basics skills with the dot for me (so not a dph skill, but usefull to tick charms and do some additional damage next), but i'm maybe too far away of an endgame gear. The Ecatomb description shows it shouldn't tough.

I think i saw somewhere that Divine Pyro will be update as our others dph skills did, but can't find it out. Anyway, if it's happening, let's see the changes.

Shadowvzss - Harshlands · April 2014

kelhdar wrote: »

Uh right, forgot only demon wizards had 1.2+0.8 Pyrogram, witch is actually better than 1+1

Phoenix is indeed a low range skill but i use it more often than i thought i would originally do.

For Crown of Flame, it is currently dealing more damage than basics skills with the dot for me (so not a dph skill, but usefull to tick charms and do some additional damage next), but i'm maybe too far away of an endgame gear. The Ecatomb description shows it shouldn't tough.

I think i saw somewhere that Divine Pyro will be update as our others dph skills did, but can't find it out. Anyway, if it's happening, let's see the changes.

well u talk about demon wizz,then talk about sage mystic got rapid growth what cheap only 30 chi and reduce channeling by 20% and additional 125% eq dmg for 8 sec and 25% chance for able cast again +stacking with 3rd spark the mattack if i am not wrong

dot dmg kinda pointless 5k dot dmg when sin got 15k, barb got double than that and both of them say not too big dmg but already alot more than crown of flame

XXHotXx - Morai · April 2014

well the point of wizard not being able to dps can be found (ofc in the highest channelling+cast times) but also in the cooldowns

our basic skills cant be spammed indefinetly like for a mystic or a cleric

also we can burst with sutra but it takes 2 sparks to be able to do what a psychic does naturally and also all our skills have significant cast times, so eventho a wiz used sutra or ztp that wiz will still be able to land less skills than any other class that would use such insta-channelling feature (ztp - blade aff whatsoever)

i believe wizard class is seriously needing a total rework of the skills...

we cant dps, we cant dph ... last update lead the class to a mix of dps and dph that wont allow us to do properly one either the other of those 2 things,

before that we had The DPH, and no DPS... now they took away our DPH and gave us a really poor and bad designed DPS if we can call it like that (stone rain cd redux and frozen flame)

what i see is the other classes @ endgame can dish out the damage pretty easily, while wizard struggles

Shevanel - Sanctuary · April 2014

Only thing I've seen that allows wizzie to do great DPH is in PvE with a Seeker on board. But even then, a psychic can probably do better still with water/earth spells.

I feel that if Undine Strike was reworked to take away a lot more resistance (In PvP perhaps only) make it insta chan/cast (Maybe max of 0.25+0.25) and allow the debuff to last upto 30 seconds. This would HUGELY boost our PvE dps/h.

Currently as it stands, a one wizzie squad, theres no point in using Undine, due to the fact in the time it takes to chan/cast, you could gush/pyro/SR again, and deal the same if not more damage than the overall added damage.

If they brought in a morai/primal update for US, that had a double mode(?) debuff, such as 90% gear in PvP and 75% resistance in PvE with the 0.25+0.25, and perhaps double duration, it'd be a much more worthwhile skill.. **** off the spark spell..

Another idea, perhaps AoE undine? same range as BIDS might be.. that way Sage Bids is Viable again. Isn't that what the wizzie was all about? Huge AOE spikes? (This isn't a matter between sage/demon btw, since crit is hardly hard to come by anymore)

Idk. throwing ideas into the wind. Use what we have, change one spell, suddenly we get our damage per hit back.

XXHotXx - Morai · April 2014

Shevanel - Sanctuary wrote: »

Only thing I've seen that allows wizzie to do great DPH is in PvE with a Seeker on board. But even then, a psychic can probably do better still with water/earth spells.

I feel that if Undine Strike was reworked to take away a lot more resistance (In PvP perhaps only) make it insta chan/cast (Maybe max of 0.25+0.25) and allow the debuff to last upto 30 seconds. This would HUGELY boost our PvE dps/h.

Currently as it stands, a one wizzie squad, theres no point in using Undine, due to the fact in the time it takes to chan/cast, you could gush/pyro/SR again, and deal the same if not more damage than the overall added damage.

If they brought in a morai/primal update for US, that had a double mode(?) debuff, such as 90% gear in PvP and 75% resistance in PvE with the 0.25+0.25, and perhaps double duration, it'd be a much more worthwhile skill.. **** off the spark spell..

Another idea, perhaps AoE undine? same range as BIDS might be.. that way Sage Bids is Viable again. Isn't that what the wizzie was all about? Huge AOE spikes? (This isn't a matter between sage/demon btw, since crit is hardly hard to come by anymore)

Idk. throwing ideas into the wind. Use what we have, change one spell, suddenly we get our damage per hit back.

yes the original idea of a wizard was to make a tank aoe nuker class
our ultimates (bt bid and ms) are supposed to generate aoe terror in TWs and mass PvP

now with the base damage greatly overexceeding the damage added by skills, our ultis hit barely more than any other skill,
and hit less than other classes "multiplied base damage" skills such elimination or the anti flyer barb skill

bt is the onlly one with 200% base damage, i believe bt bid and ms should all be reworked to 300% base damage on pair with elimination damage output

Shadowvzss - Harshlands · April 2014

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

yes the original idea of a wizard was to make a tank aoe nuker class
our ultimates (bt bid and ms) are supposed to generate aoe terror in TWs and mass PvP

now with the base damage greatly overexceeding the damage added by skills, our ultis hit barely more than any other skill,
and hit less than other classes "multiplied base damage" skills such elimination or the anti flyer barb skill

bt is the onlly one with 200% base damage, i believe bt bid and ms should all be reworked to 300% base damage on pair with elimination damage output

i am happy if they make 200-250% base dmg to ms and bid just make udine better like aoe+30m range and change how its work, for able work vs defence from buff and passive and stat too, make it usefull vs defence from buff because if they add more rebirth => more stat, more defence passive than improving effect of udine will be useless since will be more and more defence from stat and passive

just image it, lets say they improve udine to 75% debuff, cool but what when they add another 7 level for passive and another 150 stat from another 2 rebirth? +dmg absolute not compasete the debuff loss if a class was forced to use debuff for able to deal ~balanced dmg compared with other class

XXHotXx - Morai · May 2014

i just saw that pwch in next patch is moving toward lvl 10 passives...

WOW

we are f.cked b:cry b:surrender

Shadowvzss - Harshlands · May 2014

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i just saw that pwch in next patch is moving toward lvl 10 passives...

WOW

we are f.cked b:cry b:surrender

and peoples (earthguard/tidebron) dont understand why screwed that class who got defence debuff, each time when someone upgrade the def passive the def debuff became more and more crappier

drheal · May 2014

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i just saw that pwch in next patch is moving toward lvl 10 passives...

WOW

we are f.cked b:cry b:surrender

I'm not putting any money in this game anymore. It's stupid what they do. At least make 1 item to change class, so we GTFO out of this poor choice of class.

Lately, I even lost the desire to log. I log maybe 1-2 times per week, just to say hi, not doing any instance nor pvp.

Deleted all my videos and no more pwi videos. They dont know how to cherish their player base, they dont really deserve my attention.

b:bye

Proski - Archosaur · May 2014

wizards will always have a soft in my heart

brb 4k hp, 4k pdef buffed, average weapon & still making cash shoppers cry in the good ole days

sage spark, cloud eruption, zooming thunder and bt of goodnight sweet prince

nowadays on the other hand... lawl

Lolozaurus - Morai · May 2014

Well nowadays we have:

1. Seekers who can oneshot everything that moves with zerk crit and SS combo.
2. Sins who deal so much dmg it does not even record it...and dont give a ** about debuffs, about disables, their tidal is OP.
3. BMs that zerk crit oneshot, that use unpurifiable disable for 6 seconds with 15 sec cd, that can stack bleed on you and not even register in DMG log.
4. Barbs that can...i dont even know if they are a factor...

XXHotXx - Morai · May 2014

the main problem coming from the lvl 10 passives,

is that wizard class already had high p res and ele res values, so this thing didnt bring any real benefit for our class

moreover this passives nerfed, wait not nerfed... nullified...flat zerod the debuffs that is basically all what our class is about...

i have to say its a big GG WP DEVS, i would like to reroll aswell..

seekers, archers even assassins are better aoers than we are

seekers assassins bms psys archers even ******n mystics are better 1on1 nukers\dpsers than we are and i dont wanna mention how **** is our DPH now...

Proski - Archosaur · June 2014

yeah

at this point i'm probably just going to trash spark and dex from my genie because from a cost-benefit p.o.v its simply not worth it, it's barely boosting my deeps. I'd rather go back to a full magic/vit build so I can at least run around spamming expel on myself /infinite chi and pretend to be useful

AshenSkies - Heavens Tear · June 2014

Proski - Archosaur wrote: »

yeah

at this point i'm probably just going to trash spark and dex from my genie because from a cost-benefit p.o.v its simply not worth it, it's barely boosting my deeps. I'd rather go back to a full magic/vit build so I can at least run around spamming expel on myself /infinite chi and pretend to be useful

That's what I've been doing for the past few months(whenever I do actually log in). I have an 87/100 genie which I've made full mag/vit. Expel, cloud eruption, absolute domain, fortify, holy path, extreme poison and eruption fist(even though it's a tiny chance, purge is amazing). In terms of surviving, it helps a lot, and my damage dealing isn't really hindered. I do sometime switch back to a spark genie in TW if there are barbs on our towers/crystal, but I don't really use that genie anymore.

New genie meta

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