Nation Wars - Skewed Nations Everytime

LostPoet - Dreamweaver
LostPoet - Dreamweaver Posts: 396 Arc User
edited April 2014 in Nation Wars
Tons of players bring alts into nation wars in hope of getting some extra tokens and making money. I've seen squads of alts, joining a battle for a moment and leaving, or auto-attacking on the NPCs.

1 thing i've noticed: the Nation with the most players, tends to always be the loosing team, as they generally have the most Alts. From what i've heard, the "balancing" done to split up players is done so by total Soulforce. So 1 nation can have a few people super refined and high leveled, but another nation will just have tons of players, to fill it creating "BALANCED TEAMS". b:surrender

But Something I've noticed, is some nations tend to win / loose everytime. Either because they tend to always be stacked, or simply because their land positioning allows the enemy nations to easily invade into their territory and spread out while still being able to easily defend their own lands. (less battles for all the players to attend to, thus more people per battle)

b:sad
Reply with your thoughts, what you've noticed, and what you think could/should be done...
(even though it will probably get unnoticed / re-balanced by devs / admins)

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Post edited by LostPoet - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • LostPoet - Dreamweaver
    LostPoet - Dreamweaver Posts: 396 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I think, with this new Spirit out, balancing can be done using Spirit, simply distinguishing from alts / mains (as most alts are lvl 60-ish with dreamchaser pack gears, thus 0 spirit).
    This will create a somewhat better balance among nations.


    PWI may not be able to prevent these alt's from entering, but at least they can spread them out across the different nations.

    b:victory
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  • SakuLv - Dreamweaver
    SakuLv - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,400 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    where the OP cashers go- that nation will win or be 2nd (but darn close to 1st)

    If u know the names of so OP ppl, U will know that the whole squad will be there soon, unless some1 dced.

    If i see them in my nation- i already know we will win or be 2nd xD

    If they would forbid dual client- then will be less alts in nation. But..if that would happen, oh god spare the forum from QQ (so probably that would be a no)

    Thing is- not always 60+ r alts (well most r) there r really few new players who r doing NW first time.

    If nation will be balanced by that Spirit..All S card players will go to 1 nation? Then some A/B to other? Rest would be C and lower??


  • CapnK - Sanctuary
    CapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    You are correct that the nations with larger numbers tend to be weaker. I've been observing that trend for months. You can usually pick out the strongest nation a few minutes after the beginning by looking at which nation has the least players.
  • SakuLv - Dreamweaver
    SakuLv - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,400 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    You are correct that the nations with larger numbers tend to be weaker. I've been observing that trend for months. You can usually pick out the strongest nation a few minutes after the beginning by looking at which nation has the least players.

    Noticed it too
    Most of the times Nation with most number of ppl always lose
  • XX_Raider_Xx - Sanctuary
    XX_Raider_Xx - Sanctuary Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    my thoughts to "fix" this issue are a combination of many ideas below

    1) limit sqd size to 6 for NW

    2) add 2 more nations with names like Heaven and Earth allowing more dispersion of players

    3) raise NW level of access to Level 80 or perhaps like Aware of Vacuity

    4) sort out a IP limiting feature where as only 1 account per IP address idk

    5) assign nations based on total "refines" and/or "soul force" and/or "spirit"

    6) have a "active" feature that will kick from NW if players do not have more than 20 minutes without dealing damage

    just a few thoughts
  • DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    my thoughts to "fix" this issue are a combination of many ideas below

    1) limit sqd size to 6 for NW
    - 6 would still be too much, limit it to 2 or 3 max imo

    2) add 2 more nations with names like Heaven and Earth allowing more dispersion of players
    - pretty much solved by allowing only squads of 2-3 persons, more nations would only nerf the rewards for people who dont log alts to stand AFK in battle, which happens too much

    3) raise NW level of access to Level 80 or perhaps like Aware of Vacuity
    - Perhaps, imo raise it to level 100.

    4) sort out a IP limiting feature where as only 1 account per IP address idk
    - This won't work, like everything where people mention limiters per IP adress, it's simply not the way to go, there could be more than 1 person in a household that plays pwi connecting through the same IP.

    5) assign nations based on total "refines" and/or "soul force" and/or "spirit"
    - I'm not sure what you mean with this, but if you mean put people in nations based on soulforce, that would bring immense imbalance

    6) have a "active" feature that will kick from NW if players do not have more than 20 minutes without dealing damage
    - Agreed

    just a few thoughts

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  • SakuLv - Dreamweaver
    SakuLv - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,400 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    3) raise NW level of access to Level 80 or perhaps like Aware of Vacuity

    4) sort out a IP limiting feature where as only 1 account per IP address idk

    5) assign nations based on total "refines" and/or "soul force" and/or "spirit"
    3rd idea isn't bad

    4th No.. me and my bf have same IP adress and we both like to do NW.

    5th..idk wouldnt be nice to new players ..i know that ppl think that there r no new players but there r actually few.
    My alt guild tend to make their own lil squad, some r even lvl 70 (not alts)
  • XX_Raider_Xx - Sanctuary
    XX_Raider_Xx - Sanctuary Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    To clarify

    the idea of soul force, refines, etc would be more along the lines of

    400 ppl play in nation wars

    100 ppl are uber nicely geared with combined "score" of 300,000
    150 ppl are moderately geared with combined "score" of 250,000
    150 ppl are either low level/ alts with combined "score" of 150,000

    Total scores 700,000 divided by 4 nations is 175,000 or average of 17,500

    so ultimately, My idea is

    that 25% of uber nicely geared players are in each of 4 nations
    that 25% of moderately geared players are in each of 4 nations
    that 25% of low level/ alts gear players are in each of 4 nations

    maybe my math is wrong but I think the idea is sound because high "score" players could be worth 3 low level or 2 mid grade

    Furthermore,

    How about getting rid of "squads" completely

    Try this............

    Everyone that gets the NW script gets sent to various nations independently of others (random)

    Can squad with others once inside and use buffs

    all players talk to NPC for buffs of level 10 for no charge

    all players can opt for Sage or Demon buffs at 10k coins (1 hour duration unless killed)

    all players have full health and full sparks upon entering

    Spawn points have protective AOE auras that will kick offenders back to base
    (no more spawn killing)
  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    my thoughts to "fix" this issue are a combination of many ideas below

    1) limit sqd size to 6 for NW

    2) add 2 more nations with names like Heaven and Earth allowing more dispersion of players

    3) raise NW level of access to Level 80 or perhaps like Aware of Vacuity

    4) sort out a IP limiting feature where as only 1 account per IP address idk

    5) assign nations based on total "refines" and/or "soul force" and/or "spirit"

    6) have a "active" feature that will kick from NW if players do not have more than 20 minutes without dealing damage

    just a few thoughts

    1. I do not think this is a good idea, and we would still have the same problems, just on a far smaller scale, which I guess is indeed essentially a win, still, I would prefer that it would fix more like 95% of the problem, instead of maybe like 70%ish... and really taking it down to an even lower number would just cause more problems than actually fixing the problem. (We really don't need any more 'fixes' creating more problems for the player base.)

    2. That might be ok, but I am in agreement with DEMHEALSMAN, it would just create more problems than it 'fixed.'

    3. Meh, I have mixed feelings about that, Facing scores of oped people make people give up far too easily/make the undergeared/under leveled people shy away from it in the first place... that in itself is a deterent.

    4. As sak/DEMHEALSMAN said, their are families playing this, wouldn't be fair to say Sam can't play but Ashley can.

    5. Isn't nation wars already based off of this? Its why one nation has more players than others/is usually on the losing end of the nw.

    6. No thanks, what about the underpowered people who quite literally can't get near ANYONE, and is doing nothing but dying, or how about he support clerics/mystics who are doing nothing but support, or maybe even a sleep person going afk, and coming back later and actually fighting in the end?

    ---

    I applaud your effort on trying to find 'fixes' but I really think you should go back to the drawing board, far too many noticeable flaws in those ideas. :$ (Again I applaud your effort)
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  • Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear
    Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear Posts: 420 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    my thoughts to "fix" this issue are a combination of many ideas below

    1) limit sqd size to 6 for NW

    limiting the nw squads to the normal 6 might be more of a detrement than a solution since alot of squads do squad up with faction and friends for nw. so i dont think lowering the squad size would help since it would just cause the same problems that we currently have.

    2) add 2 more nations with names like Heaven and Earth allowing more dispersion of players

    adding 2 more nations would just decrease the numbers even smaller and would also cause a possible shut out for 2 out of the 6 nations. not all servers have alot of ppl per server now since most have quit or left pw over some pw **** up.

    3) raise NW level of access to Level 80 or perhaps like Aware of Vacuity

    I do think this would work since those that are lvl 60s-70s hardly get to do much in nw with em always constantly being one shotted by a 100+. But some of the 60s-70s do end up getting alot more tokens then the 100s.

    4) sort out a IP limiting feature where as only 1 account per IP address idk

    already been replied to by others.

    5) assign nations based on total "refines" and/or "soul force" and/or "spirit"

    the randomization of nations is already being done by soulforce, plus with spirit would just ruin it even more.

    6) have a "active" feature that will kick from NW if players do not have more than 20 minutes without dealing damage

    this one wouldnt even work at all period, all they would be is an easy target for other players to target till they get kicked out with their 6 spawn limit. Plus alot of players want to stay in nw, not to be kicked from it if ya dont deal dmg. If someone does leave nw, they cant return to it anyway so whats the point of making a feature like that when it would only hurt nations.

    just a few thoughts
    Furthermore,

    How about getting rid of "squads" completely

    how bout we dont get rid of squads completely, squads are the only way of communication between friends and faction.

    Try this............

    Everyone that gets the NW script gets sent to various nations independently of others (random)

    Can squad with others once inside and use buffs

    all players talk to NPC for buffs of level 10 for no charge

    all players can opt for Sage or Demon buffs at 10k coins (1 hour duration unless killed)

    anyone can get sage or demon buffs if they have someone in squad with em already. the npc buffs from the overseer is plenty enough.

    all players have full health and full sparks upon entering

    then why have charms to use in nw if you would be getting full health and sparks upon entering anyway. Plus theres also such a thing as herbs and apoth remedies for sparks.

    Spawn points have protective AOE auras that will kick offenders back to base
    (no more spawn killing)

    no dice on this one period, would only hurt the nations in battles. If you want to get rid of spawnkillling, then i suggest have pw put in a feature where 4 out of the 5 spawn areas are considered a safe zone for 60secs before it switches over to a killable zone. that way anyone entering has bout 40secs to leave the spawn area before anyone can atk em. Plus this safe zone spawn area would also work when someone dies and gets ported back to the spawn area. Theres also one other part to this safe zone idea that needs to be taken into consideration. If anyone enters the spawn area wont get the safe zone message just so a player can stand there, go afk and not get hit. So this idea makes it unable to get spawnkilled, but also not able to abuse the safe zone.

    replies in dark orange. id like to see pw put in some kind of feature for nw so ppl dont spawnkill each other.
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  • Algiz - Dreamweaver
    Algiz - Dreamweaver Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    How about getting rid of "squads" completely

    how bout we dont get rid of squads completely, squads are the only way of communication between friends and faction.


    like people don't already use ventrillo, raidcall, skype, et c.

    Im all for disabling premade squads, that would help with a lot of this 1 nation with a boot on the throat of all others. On Dreamweaver its not unusuall for most of the super geared op people on the server to be in 3-4 10man squads and ending up with 1-2 of those squads in one nation, which is the entire problem. if those 30-40 toons were instead scattered over all 4 nations things would be MUCH more even.