Petition: Make PV repeatable and unlimited

XXHotXx - Morai · April 2014

i agree with the OP

sometimes it takes more time to find the openers than doing the run itself..

any endgame can complete the pv 100 in under 2 minutes, they should just maybe keep the 15 mins limit but lift the once a day per account thing

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · April 2014

At what point did you guys stop "playing" the game?
It's not all about leveling you know.

Also, if you want to compete with the e-peen, you've got to pony up like they do. You don't need to change the game mechanics for that.

What would be really interesting....
Make our version like the original with no hypers in FCC. Then reset everyone to level 1, no rebirth, and reset all quests. You can keep all your flashy OP gear, you'll just have to wait to use it again.

But then, people would leave in hordes because they might actually have to play some of the content of the game.b:chuckle

Domethies - Raging Tide · April 2014

Im getting the impression that this is somehow another QQ thread about someone not being able to do something that a few well geared/skilled players are doing. b:chuckle

Fryvorg - Sanctuary · April 2014

Verenor - Morai wrote: »

Removing any restriction for Phoenix Valley sounds more like one of those old threads where people complained about Morai giving too little prestige/influence and getting skills was taking too long: "I want it and I want it now!" was the motto there.

Getting 105-105-105 is one of the longest/hardest goals there is atm (getting r9r3 is even easier) so it's obviously meant to be something for the long run. Making PV an unlimited grindfest would absolutely shatter that.

Let's be honest: All the time limited stuff makes this game worse than it could be. It doesn't matter if you do something once a day or unlimited, you do the same amount of work anyway, but distributed differently. All this limited stuff is just a pointless way to keep you playing daily, which only raises your addiction potential. I rather want to spend a weekend on spamming Primal Quests/PV/Morai/FSP with a certain goal I can achieve in a reasonable time than log every day repeating the same routine, hoping some day, if I continue that long, I can reach it. Most dailies are no challenge either, the only ability you need is a schedule that allows you to go online everyday.

As I said, wether the dailies can be repeated infinitely or not, in the end, you still need the same time of actual playing to accomplish your goals. Thus, removing the time limit on the PV token isn't such a bad idea. You're limited by hypers, anyway.
I'm all for OP's request, even if it's just limitless ROC activations.

Marengo - Lost City · April 2014

Verenor - Morai wrote: »

Getting 105-105-105 is one of the longest/hardest goals there is atm (getting r9r3 is even easier) so it's obviously meant to be something for the long run. Making PV an unlimited grindfest would absolutely shatter that.

Longest maybe but not the hardest. You don't need op gear to do cube, gbq, crazy stone, aeu, frost, BH daily. You don't need any special skills or much money for that also, it will go slowly but steadily and eventually you will be there.
I started running pv when I was at 60% 103lvl. It helped me to speed up a lot (as long as I totaly ignore AEU and frosts) but even without pv lvling is much easier nowdays.

Ppl are just lazy and skip a lot, but those who can't pv but really want to lvl, have a lot of opportunities to do it.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear · April 2014

Brivido - Dreamweaver wrote: »

2) On another account, create 5/10 lvl 100 chars

b:chuckle

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · April 2014

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

The current design of PV is one 15 minute token per person per day with one activation to spawn mobs in one instance, and the option to get a second token from Shroud.

The common practice, which let's face it, is an exploit of sorts, is to use multiple alts to open/activate multiple instances for a single character to solo and farm in speed runs in the 15-30 min time frame.

But not everyone has a dozen lvl 100 alts, or a computer that can handle running so many clients (by the way, is this NOT still technically against the rules?), or the ability to solo multiple PV runs in such a short time frame (15-30 mins).

Essentially all the current system is doing is rewarding players who exploit the system, while severely limiting everyone else.

There are some who can get 100 mil or more exp per day in 15-30 mins of PV. Myself, I average approx 27m exp from PV daily. The conclusion is that some, exploiters, are able to lvl at an exponentially faster rate than the rest of us, all by using an exploit.

Meanwhile in another thread..

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't bot with many alts if that's what you are saying. Hard to tell through the poor grammar and punctuation.

Yes, it's "against the TOS" to bot with hordes of alts, but many do, and whether it is correct or not, it is contributing to the inflated gold prices, which is the central point of my post.

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is a pathetic game forum, don`t expect me to use my language skills properly... since I don`t really care but I know you do cube/advanced cube on 3 characters simultaneously but that`s besides the point other than against the TOS. And gold prices will only increase unless they make all DQ items 1 coin, but aaaanyways like we know PWI does nothing to enforce their own rules so do what you want, you will not be punished, this should be the game`s motto lol.

lol..

K so on topic, you only ever need two clients to do 8 runs per token. With you opening them for yourself. If you need to know how I can link you an explanation that has been provided a few times.

If people have alts that they took the the time to level to 100 for whatever reason and they use them for opening PV this is a luxury they have earned.

If people pay for openers then other people are willing to do a service for a agreed price, you could do the same, this isn't soviet russia.

If you don't want to play a game that forces you log in daily to do stuff to keep up then play something else, but if you really insist on giving me the ability to hit 105-105-105 in a few weekends sure, you'll still be trailing behind everyone else and will probably still be complaining to 'level the playing field' in which case I would suggest playing something other than an MMO.

Cheers.

Kijinka - Dreamweaver · April 2014

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wow, is it the weekend? So many children on the boards.

No need to sling insults over a suggestion.

As for removing the timer: it levels the playing field for those who need more time and cannot tank the whole dungeon and kill all the mobs in 1 shot with an aoe.

"Going with a squad" -- defeats the purpose. Please leave the soap-boxing about socializing out.

Most players opt for more efficient ways of playing. My suggestion is meant to streamline efficiency and equalize opportunity for all players. Allowing unlimited openings but maintaining the timer is still rewarding the few while penalizing the many. The super-geared will just fit 20 runs in and the rest of the population would still be stuck with doing very few PVs.

Unlimited activations becomes pointless without the time allotment to make use of them.

Are you like 72 years old? Calm yourself down grandma you'll have a heart attack.

Level the playing field? Equalize opportunity?
This is sounding a lot like those stupid feminist arguments.

Everyone has equal opportunity by getting a 15minute token to run PV with.
Everyone has equal opportunity to join shroud in morai and work for 5k prestige to gain a second 15minute token.
Everyone has equal opportunity to farm their gear/farm upgrades for their gear to be able to complete more runs in the 15minute token.
Everyone has equal opportunity to learn their class' abilities and custom genie setups for maximum efficiency.
Everyone has equal opportunity to make friends with others in game to run the instance with, or ask for openers.
Everyone has equal opportunity to use global chat to purchase openers.
Everyone has equal opportunity to create a second account and level up 8 extra characters that are 100+ on a single server.

Quit with your idiotic arguments and or suggestions. This is the exact same behaviour we have come to expect from feminists, such a horrid cult of ugly virgin women. The only solid argument that will stick is people having an advantage due to their real life financial situation and that is something nobody can argue with when it comes to this game. The playing field is already level aside from on a financial level.

Eoria - Harshlands · April 2014

Fryvorg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Let's be honest: All the time limited stuff makes this game worse than it could be. It doesn't matter if you do something once a day or unlimited, you do the same amount of work anyway, but distributed differently. All this limited stuff is just a pointless way to keep you playing daily, which only raises your addiction potential. I rather want to spend a weekend on spamming Primal Quests/PV/Morai/FSP with a certain goal I can achieve in a reasonable time than log every day repeating the same routine, hoping some day, if I continue that long, I can reach it. Most dailies are no challenge either, the only ability you need is a schedule that allows you to go online everyday.

As I said, wether the dailies can be repeated infinitely or not, in the end, you still need the same time of actual playing to accomplish your goals. Thus, removing the time limit on the PV token isn't such a bad idea. You're limited by hypers, anyway.
I'm all for OP's request, even if it's just limitless ROC activations.

This +1 and apply it to other stuff like FSP and UCH as well... This game has way too many dailies now. -___-;;

Desdi - Sanctuary · April 2014

Kijinka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This is sounding a lot like those stupid feminist arguments.

Quit with your idiotic arguments and or suggestions. This is the exact same behaviour we have come to expect from feminists, such a horrid cult of ugly virgin women.

Not sure why you're bringing this up in a discussion about..you know.. a game. This is also a public forum, people are free to post whatever they want and you're free to ignore their posts.

Inb4Igetcalledafeminist

On topic - I see that are some reasonable/good arguments for both sides. In all honesty, I don't really care but I agree with one thing; we've been given a lot more options for EXP gaining update after update so it's definitely easier than it used to be, it will just take longer without PV but you'll get there eventually. If you're a competitive player that want the extra attributes for PvP and stuff...well you gotta do what others do. If you can't beat them, join them kind of thing.
I mean, I'm really lucky to have someone to do PV with (I don't have enough alts myself) but before that I just did the usual; AEU, dailies, Cube, stuff and leveled eventually.

WannaBM - Archosaur · April 2014

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is a straw man.

Removing the time limit enables everyone to do it as often as they wish and level at the pace they choose being limited only by their time spent in game or the capabilities of their gear. That's the point.

Certainly some would spam the instance and reach 105-105-105 in a matter of days -- but they would not be achieving this through means unavailable to most of the server population: multiple alts, the ability to pay others to open, the ability to run 12-20 runs in 15-30 minutes.

The ability to do runs in 2-3 minutes solo is also not available to everyone.

It is probably easier to make 5 alts lvl 100 and gain access to that than it is for many to upgrade their toons to be able to do fast solo runs.

The 15 minute limit therefore is needed so those who have the ability to spam PV cant abuse this prerogative too much. To make things more equal. Not less. Removing it will make things more unequal. Not less.

But sure, remove it. I'm a barb. I can do 7 runs in 15 minutes. I will be the one who gains. Not you. Not the game in general.

elfentle · April 2014

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why people are so obsessed with leveling past 101, if it matters that much, might as well bring back FCC goon glitch, for a few stat points and other stuff you get from it, it`s totally not worth it to level considering the amount of effort and time it takes.

Wait wut? when was the last time you logged on?

Levelling after 100 gives an insane bonus at the minute.

100 - 105 gains 25 extra stat points
Now reincarnate throw another 76 stat points
level to 105, reincarnate to throw another 76 stat points into the mix

Another advantage -
Copper Paperweight - Level 105 - 8 Tokens - +40% weapon damage / +20% Defence / +10% HP

Level difference

Target Level minus
Attacker Level Damage
Multiplier
< 3 100%
3 - 5 90%

Just to recap that ( off the top of my head)

Is 177 Stat points difference, 40 % more wep damage , 20% more p.def/ m.def , 10% more Hp and a damage nerf for players level 100 attacking you which = 10%

i see no reason at all to level after 100.

Knownase - Heavens Tear · April 2014

Didn't read the thread but I support the idea of unlimited PV runs at any given time.

Aedryel - Sanctuary · April 2014

Instead of making PV spammable to allow the abusers abuse more and the incompetent QQ more.... how abt making the token being removed upon activaton \o/

Tada! One PV a day or two tops w Shroud daily without ANY exceptions! Equality in your face.
b:laugh

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · April 2014

if you remove the limit, youll just get pple who get to 105 in a couple days.

if thats so, then its prolly just easier to bring the lvl cap down to 101 b:pleased

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'd vote to keep the 15 minute token timer but remove the limit on the number of times you can open per day. Juggling instances is inconvenient.

keeping it to 1 chara WOULD make things a bit easier yeah

Kitsusha - Sanctuary · April 2014

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Meanwhile in another thread..

lol..

K so on topic, you only ever need two clients to do 8 runs per token. With you opening them for yourself. If you need to know how I can link you an explanation that has been provided a few times.

If people have alts that they took the the time to level to 100 for whatever reason and they use them for opening PV this is a luxury they have earned.

If people pay for openers then other people are willing to do a service for a agreed price, you could do the same, this isn't soviet russia.

If you don't want to play a game that forces you log in daily to do stuff to keep up then play something else, but if you really insist on giving me the ability to hit 105-105-105 in a few weekends sure, you'll still be trailing behind everyone else and will probably still be complaining to 'level the playing field' in which case I would suggest playing something other than an MMO.

Cheers.

Lol'd so bad #Burn

Xainou - Sanctuary · April 2014

I'd have agreed if you suggested to make the opening quest repeatable per character so you don't need alts. That makes sense with your argument.

But unlimited PV runs without the 15min timer? Nope. Leveling is already ridiculously fast for the people that can solo it.

elfentle · April 2014

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'd have agreed if you suggested to make the opening quest repeatable per character so you don't need alts. That makes sense with your argument.

But unlimited PV runs without the 15min timer? Nope. Leveling is already ridiculously fast for the people that can solo it.

Or at least reset the quest requirement when you buy a new token from Shroud.

As it stands, you can only gain access to a new map with this token, cant spawn the mobs with it : )

foley3k · April 2014

i think because of all the **** ups lately from PWE (servers crashing, arc being mandatory, mass DCs, unfinished quest lines etc..... i can go on for days) that they should make it unlimited. It is the least they could do ffs.

Colum - Raging Tide · April 2014

I disagree with this idea. I personally don't understand all this rush to max level and then QQ about how they're bored.

Vinat - Sanctuary · April 2014

Verenor - Morai wrote: »

/snip

You're swapping out one instance with another and refuting why the other instance should not be made unlimited. This is once again a straw man argument, and is not lending anything to the discussion. To specifically respond to that though, UCH's reward is character bound. You cannot pool your bloods from your alts or pass your alt's UCH quests over to your main to give your main more bloods. Every character is bound by the same limitations and there *is no exploitability* for UCH. Period.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Meanwhile in another thread..

You're quoting someone else who I've never had an interaction with in game before and who knows absolutely nothing about me. Bravo. Excellent source.

Also, the exploit is not "having the alts" or even using them at the same time -- it is finding a work around within the game mechanics to do something you're not supposed to be able to do -- spam the instance.

Kijinka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

/snip

You are not worth reading or responding to, so this will be the last.

And finally, thank you all for reminding me why I avoid these forums. I have better things to do than argue irrelevancies with trolls since a disproportionate number of you are incapable of having an actual discussion like an adult.

Take care, and feel free to lock the thread. I won't be returning. I have better ways to spend my time.

Rawynn - Archosaur · April 2014

I'm for keeping the timmer but adding the option to R.O.C. an alt. quest ( Retaliation) . if you have extra time remaining on your token then you can take the alt quest and make a 2nd, third or 4th run.

As far as the token from Shroud order goes, when you talk to R.O.C. you get a unique quest called "Defender of Phenoix Valley". and again the instance is reset. all other addtional runs on the "shroud" token get the alt. quest "Sentinal of the Valley".

Me, I like being able to do multi. runs in pv 100+, i find it to be a very nice challenge, and no my bm isnt and rrr9, +12, or josd. I like being able to go in there and see just how many mobs i can gather and mow down.

sure the xp. is nice in there even hypered + silk worm, but it's more of the mass gather and slaugher that i enjoy. b:victoryb:victoryb:victory

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver · April 2014

I support this idea because PV gives overall less exps than FC, UNLESS you're very well geared.

Whats not most people's case, so, cashers would benefit well on this as well as free users too.

And PWE who would get cashers moneys and sell more Hyper Exps (which can be attained through PW boutique Agent)

Win-Win-Win

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

I disagree with this idea. I personally don't understand all this rush to max level and then QQ about how they're bored.

Even with PV unlimited times per day, it would be hell hard for one to reach 105/105/105, i don't understand your point.

Please consider you can only run at most 1 hour of 12x exps per day, and for most people FC would still be more worth it.

Kijinka - Dreamweaver · April 2014

OP can't handle logic.

trands · April 2014

I'm against this idea. It would benefit me who can solo PV but doesn't have alts to open more, but tbh, those who lvled up several 100+ and use them to gain more exp on 1 specific character, have a fair advantage over me. And they deserve it. I'm way to lazy to be bothered making a horde alts to open and I'm way to stingy to pay ppl to open. Leveling speed is 1 of the advantages that goes to those who (can) put in more free time then me. I don't jelly them for having a fair and logic advantage over me. They will get the tripple 105 faster then me, but I'm confident I'll reach it sooner or later anyway.

EIayne - Dreamweaver · April 2014

Uhm... No..... So much no

how is this supposed to "ballance" anything, OR stop those other's from spamming pv, as you seem to think they do? it will only enable them to run it back to back for up to a full hour each day rather then 15, maybe 16 minutes. (Hell 2-6 hours on some days depending on how they're using their hypers....)

this will NOT do ANYTHING to balance out the exp, as you seem to think it will. If you want more xp, find yourself some friends to run it with, or buy some openers, or both. b:bye

heerohex#3018 · April 2014

In all Accounts even with the Poll,

Im not a big fan on this idea. For now im not going to log neither am I going to say I wont log it tho. Lets see how this goes.

Thanks,

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · April 2014

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

The current design of PV is one 15 minute token per person per day with one activation to spawn mobs in one instance, and the option to get a second token from Shroud.

I think the 15 minutes is enough, people can even go in Shroud for a second token, I was able to lvl 103 to 105 in 2-3 months with PV, 2-3 months to be lvl 105, it's not bad if you ask me.

The common practice, which let's face it, is an exploit of sorts, is to use multiple alts to open/activate multiple instances for a single character to solo and farm in speed runs in the 15-30 min time frame.

How is it an exploit if I log my alts one by one? Having many alts lvl 100+ is not an exploit. I have 7 chars lvl 100+, I'm exploiting the game? I log my alts one by one to open the PV, cause anyway all my alts are on the same account. Do some people log 5+ accounts at the same time? Yes, but not just for PV, some people have 5 accounts log on at the same time as shops at west, some people do it to do GV, BH etc... that's not just for PV. There's a lot of people that ask guild/friends to come open for them.

But not everyone has a dozen lvl 100 alts, or a computer that can handle running so many clients (by the way, is this NOT still technically against the rules?), or the ability to solo multiple PV runs in such a short time frame (15-30 mins).

As I previously said some people do follow the rule and log them one by one, if you don't have alts lvl100+ it's not my problem, I did work for mines, do the same.

Essentially all the current system is doing is rewarding players who exploit the system, while severely limiting everyone else.

So making alts is exploiting the system... logging 2 accounts is exploiting the system, are you sure you are on the forum of the game you are talking about? Cause in PWI it's allowed to have alts and have 2 accounts online at the same time.

There are some who can get 100 mil or more exp per day in 15-30 mins of PV. Myself, I average approx 27m exp from PV daily. The conclusion is that some, exploiters, are able to lvl at an exponentially faster rate than the rest of us, all by using an exploit.

Tbh I never did check how much I make by PV, I do 6-7 runs, mainly cause I don't like to rush, some classes can do PV really fast, I'm a mystic and I can one shot the mobs, an R9rr+12 archer can't one shot the mobs, you are a veno, it's normal that you can't do as many runs as other classes.

I suggest altering PV to be non-time limited, and repeatable (meaning any character can re-activate the mob spawning in a fresh, perhaps even the same PV instance). Make the mob spawning quest repeatable. Resetting the dungeon would be an acceptable necessity, as long as a character that has already "opened" PV can open it multiple times in the same day, and is not restricted by a 15 minute timer.

The only thing that I agree it's they should make it so people don't need alts to open it, but they should keep the limited time. This is not an FC. You want to do more PV runs? Gear up and do them faster.

As already explained, there is a significant number of players who are leveling to 105-105-105 at an accelerated pace, so "we want to maintain a slower pace of leveling" is NOT an acceptable justification for not making this change.

Those people work for it, I did 103-105 in 2-3 months, my mystic was 105 before even reach the 2 years of existence, some people play the same char since 3-4 years and are still 102-103, that what we call lazy, I didn't exploit the game in anyway for that, I did PV, but was doing all my dailies and when dailies and PV done I was going to FC. I did work for my 105.

But I'm a mystic, which is one of the best class for PV if not the best, I one shot the mobs, it doesn't cost me million in charms and pots while it does for the other class.

At the start PV wasn't suppose to be a solo instance, like FC wasn't suppose to be a solo instance, but people gear up more and more, get more stats with the cards, titles, nuemas etc.. so people can solo PV with good gears. If people cannot do PV they can do FC instead, ofc compare to PV FC give less exp, but if people was doing full FC instead than only exp room they would realize that the exp is not bad. (I know people that did get lvl 105 only by running FC and no not with the goon glitch)

Even if PV wasn't timed a lot of people could not do it simply cause they don't have the gears for it. Removing the timer won't give those people better gears and saying people that get 105 are exploiting the game just show how much you are jealous cause you can't do the same.

I voted I don't know cause I'm for making the char able to open many PV, but I'm for keeping the 15 minutes token.

Colum - Raging Tide · April 2014

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Even with PV unlimited times per day, it would be hell hard for one to reach 105/105/105, i don't understand your point.

Please consider you can only run at most 1 hour of 12x exps per day, and for most people FC would still be more worth it.

Some players are 105-105-105 already, must not be that hard. b:bye

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · April 2014

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Some players are 105-105-105 already, must not be that hard. b:bye

People just need time and motivation, some people have time, but no motivation and want everything without working for it, some people have motivation, but no time, nothing we can do about that.

Petition: Make PV repeatable and unlimited

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