Simply Awful Thinking And Execution, The New Standard Of Pwi
Auerlius - Archosaur
Posts: 226 Arc User
Now that most of the hardcore players have gotten their cards and maxed out their new skills, I am approaching this topic again to see if i gain gain some momentum towards implement a solution in the next expansion. so here goes nothing....
Barbs:
mighty swing: super easy avoidable stun, i think there has been enough on this to warrant a change so i will leave it alone.
the current skill set has pushed barbs to the realm of immortality in 1v1. any real player will tell you what they can do on a fully end-game geared demon barb in 1v1 pk. the mighty swing just pushes it over the top.
combo cheddar swing->sunder->arma
why would you allow this to happen? i am beginning to think we are the beta for china....all the **** comes here and whatever mistakes they see they fix it before the rest of the server population catches up to us over there.
if you think this is so easy to get out of you haven't pk'd versus a skilled barb. even a novice can consistently beat most pro's employing this as the kill combo and using the rest to set it up. if you guys have different options please share, i encourage both sides of this argument as i am curious to see how people will rationalize this.
Dexterity and Critical:
dex being the sole stat for crit was a bad idea, but at least before rebirth the abusive potential was limited. Now with 2 rebirths in and the system set to go to 10, this is and epic problem. there are already multiple archers and sins capable of 100% crits [in the case of a sage archer i believe it is spammable]
simply put if you are getting damage from one stat and crit from another then there should be some compensation for those who derive there damage from a stat other than dex. so you made a passive critical skill, which was a good idea to help even things a bit...but then you went insipid and let the already abusive critical score of LA users be amped even more by allowing them access to it as well.
instead of dex being the only stat for crits why not make it:
[dex*0.5]+[str*0.3]+[mag*0.2]/20
dex has the most influence still on criticals for there would be a reason for dex users to stay pure dex in addition to increased damage. [you still get a good crit rate bonus from dex alone]
str next would have some influence and mag coming in with the least effect. being the damage multiplier is 150 vs 100 for arcanes it makes sense that the critical ratio be the same to make the trade off fair. [e.g. 600 points of strength raises the damage multiplier by 4 steps and crit rate by 9%, 600 points raises the arcane multiplier by 6 steps but crit by only 6%. this way the arcanes don't get too OP with pure mag alone.
others have suggested diminishing returns but i believe this is a much fairer way to do it.
so please be respectful of anyone's ideas on here. and feel free to post some suggestions..either way.
edit: this rant has nothing to do with the thread. it is meant for the devs who continually keep pushing out these rushed expansions, feel free to ignore it as it is a somewhat therapeutic part in my stress relief.
edit 2: took the rant off as i would like this to be taken seriously...besides i feel better now lol.
Barbs:
mighty swing: super easy avoidable stun, i think there has been enough on this to warrant a change so i will leave it alone.
the current skill set has pushed barbs to the realm of immortality in 1v1. any real player will tell you what they can do on a fully end-game geared demon barb in 1v1 pk. the mighty swing just pushes it over the top.
combo cheddar swing->sunder->arma
why would you allow this to happen? i am beginning to think we are the beta for china....all the **** comes here and whatever mistakes they see they fix it before the rest of the server population catches up to us over there.
if you think this is so easy to get out of you haven't pk'd versus a skilled barb. even a novice can consistently beat most pro's employing this as the kill combo and using the rest to set it up. if you guys have different options please share, i encourage both sides of this argument as i am curious to see how people will rationalize this.
Dexterity and Critical:
dex being the sole stat for crit was a bad idea, but at least before rebirth the abusive potential was limited. Now with 2 rebirths in and the system set to go to 10, this is and epic problem. there are already multiple archers and sins capable of 100% crits [in the case of a sage archer i believe it is spammable]
simply put if you are getting damage from one stat and crit from another then there should be some compensation for those who derive there damage from a stat other than dex. so you made a passive critical skill, which was a good idea to help even things a bit...but then you went insipid and let the already abusive critical score of LA users be amped even more by allowing them access to it as well.
instead of dex being the only stat for crits why not make it:
[dex*0.5]+[str*0.3]+[mag*0.2]/20
dex has the most influence still on criticals for there would be a reason for dex users to stay pure dex in addition to increased damage. [you still get a good crit rate bonus from dex alone]
str next would have some influence and mag coming in with the least effect. being the damage multiplier is 150 vs 100 for arcanes it makes sense that the critical ratio be the same to make the trade off fair. [e.g. 600 points of strength raises the damage multiplier by 4 steps and crit rate by 9%, 600 points raises the arcane multiplier by 6 steps but crit by only 6%. this way the arcanes don't get too OP with pure mag alone.
others have suggested diminishing returns but i believe this is a much fairer way to do it.
so please be respectful of anyone's ideas on here. and feel free to post some suggestions..either way.
edit: this rant has nothing to do with the thread. it is meant for the devs who continually keep pushing out these rushed expansions, feel free to ignore it as it is a somewhat therapeutic part in my stress relief.
edit 2: took the rant off as i would like this to be taken seriously...besides i feel better now lol.
Post edited by Auerlius - Archosaur on
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Comments
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i dont think its just a minority that is actually asking for more balance between classes...
even assassin class players themselves came out with "well yea atm we are really broken",
the current balance is "if we outsin\outbarb your party we gonna win the battle"
what i dont understand also is some "sneaky" nerfs to wizards archers and seekers... (and prolly other classes that rely on debuffs for pvp)
those were really not necessary...after new horizons classes like sage archer or demon wizard became utterly awful if compared to what barb bms and sins gotmypers.pw/1.7/#123510
mypers.pw/1.7/#123524
i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg0 -
As a cleric I've held my own against an end-game geared barb in NW. We went back and for for 5 or 6 minutes. I couldn't get past his charm, and he couldn't hit me well enough to take me down. Finally he ran off to do something else and I moved on to the next target. I'd be willing to bet he got taken out by a Psy or a Wiz though. A cleric trying to take down a bard is kind of silly, I was just distracting him so someone could get the flag holder.
If you actually manage to implement true balance the the game, it's going to be hella boring. Any PvP 1vs1 fight would amount to nothing more than several minutes of posturing.
PvP is already gimped in this game, it should at least be lightly interesting.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
so you think making things more even is bad? in a boxing match the best fights are from 2 even matched fighters...why would this be different?0
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Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »dex being the sole stat for crit was a bad idea, but at least before rebirth the abusive potential was limited. Now with 2 rebirths in and the system set to go to 10, this is and epic problem. there are already multiple archers and sins capable of 100% crits [in the case of a sage archer i believe it is spammable]
Two possible things...
1. The sage archer that has 100% crit is the stupiest sage archer.
2. You are the most gullible person.
Crit... similar to chan... does not hit 100%.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
-snip-
Crit... similar to chan... does not hit 100%.
Demon sunder b:sin[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
ithink the paralyze was necessary to counter purify proc weapons also barbs dont reallyhave CC skills and bms well they really needed it. for the same reason ( counter purify proc)0
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Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »Two possible things...
1. The sage archer that has 100% crit is the stupiest sage archer.
2. You are the most gullible person.
Crit... similar to chan... does not hit 100%.
actually since the expansion crit does in fact hit 100% (ask any sin w/ 60+% crit and lv10 pdash) the former cap was 95%[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »Barbs:
mighty swing: super easy avoidable stun, i think there has been enough on this to warrant a change so i will leave it alone.
the current skill set has pushed barbs to the realm of immortality in 1v1. any real player will tell you what they can do on a fully end-game geared demon barb in 1v1 pk. the mighty swing just pushes it over the top.
combo cheddar swing->sunder->arma
why would you allow this to happen? i am beginning to think we are the beta for china....all the **** comes here and whatever mistakes they see they fix it before the rest of the server population catches up to us over there.
if you think this is so easy to get out of you haven't pk'd versus a skilled barb. even a novice can consistently beat most pro's employing this as the kill combo and using the rest to set it up. if you guys have different options please share, i encourage both sides of this argument as i am curious to see how people will rationalize this.
If a barb uses Sunder-Arma combo in PvP they'll have to use pots or genie to get another spark for arma and if they do it constantly it's predictable as hell allowing you to AD/pot.Mains:
Doom_Panda- 102/101/102 R9 3rd cast Demon Barb 40k HP.
Dawnx - 100/85 Demon Cleric.
PsychicTuna- 101/100 Sage Psychic.
DawnMyst- 96 Demon Mystic.
PANDAS FTW. AND I b:heart ARMA! b:avoid0 -
Domethies - Raging Tide wrote: »Demon sunder b:sin
f:sweat
This comment alone should be ignored, and if troll, should be burned with fire.
Demon Sunder doesn't up barbs crit to "100%". It allows of instant Crit for 5 secs.
On that Note. After you Sunder got about 4 secs to get out of Kitty form and hit another skill. Most of the time. Its only gonna be 1 skill. And what I mean by that is... After Channeling and Casting a Skill. Then starting up another skill, Crit buff is gone.
In comparison to the rest of the classes that got for mentioned:
" barb bms and sins got "
Dont think barbs new Mighty Swing can compare to the CC and DD of a Sin. Not sure about BMs because all the BMs that I've talked to have declined on getting their new skills (not sure why, dont really care either, on Arch server BMs are as rare as Mystics. And im still trying to figure out what those are f:hehe)
@Auerlius
Hmm... Not gonna name names but I 1v1ed a demon+11(12) full JoSD "Cata Build" barb during an unannounced PK attack while doing Primal Dailies. He had a charm, I didn't. I was G16+5 Warsoul +10 Flawless Cit Sharding (+4 vits in helm). Meh. I didn't see anything special about this barb. Most annoying thing was Occ b:surrender
BUT I will not deny that Para can and has gotten annoying. But most of the "trash barbs" that I've went up against stay in kitty form (1 barb was hitting me for 50dmg. I just walked away from him and let an Archer Snipe him down). I DONT PK. I do all my PvP in NW for personal Reasons atm.
So hmm... while ofc I will defend my barb skill there isn't really much to say. Its really the only useful CC i have. And I can also state that its 60% chance is kind like a 50%. Did a test on a Girl Friend.
First Test: 10 hits - 8 Freezes
Second Test: 10 hits - 6 Paras
So 20 hits - 10 Freezes 8 Paras.
Noting that Most PK is done in groups, even if i get the sharding I want and all that ****. I will still, current mind set, say that I am a Support DD (With a CC on the side).
Dex to Crit Ratio.
Pfft, nerf the little trouts, idc. f:naughty
While I do believe: "Crit... similar to chan... does not hit 100%."
If the game allows anything between the 80-95% Crit Range, it is probably something like:
10 hits 8-9 crits.
So making the Class nerf with something like your formula for Crit% to only Sins (maybe Archers) would be better suited then all Classes. Other than the Dyeing Aps barbs, the 1 LA veno on our server, and the FEW BMs that we have that are still Aps over DPH. I the other classes dont have a high enough crit rate for me to agree to a wide spread Crit Change.
Balancing Classes is hard. PWI has their way of doing like other Companies have theirs.
PWI: Feed new Content and new skills into the game play and hope the player base figures out how to use them. We wont Change scaling of any kind.
Lastly:
@XXHotXx
Nerf on Debuffs.. Hmm... Not much I can say about this. Only Passive Aggressive Nerf on Debuffs I saw was with Seeker Skills. Trying to make them all Single Target for 1 big Nuke to hell on 1 person. While I have a firm belief that want makes seekers so Deadly is their ability to do massive Debuffs on an aoe scale. Taking that away. Yeah they will still Zerk kill some ppl but not Endgame Players unless Equal gear.
I'm not an AA user tho. I play casual cleric and Veno. I main Barb, so ofc I think anything that Shoots wield colorful light out of its.... hand.. or whatever, is OP.
PWI Caters to the Range.Logic = Against ToS. It's the answer to all "Wtf..." Moments during normal gameplay with other players.0 -
SilverMayhem - Archosaur wrote: »
-snip-
Demon Sunder doesn't up barbs crit to "100%". It allows of instant Crit for 5 secs.
-Super Snip-
but my barb has 100% crit D;
Before and after a use of sunder[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
@sylver:
besides the skill nerfs like demon frozen flame or seeker stances, or archer gaining mana with new shield
what i meant and wanted to underline is, while that 3 classes got unnecessary "buffs"
(the tankiest class in game didnt really need a spammable uncounterable CC,
bms have enough ways to lock target even without new paralyze, even before this primal skill they could reel from flyer and "uncounterably" lock target in air
sins didnt need the dps burst they got)
other classes got their debuffs efficiency nerfed by 56% due to new defense passives, that act like a buff (they are skills indeed) and not as gear value,
therefore halving any debuff efficiency that way
whats the point of an unpurgeable sin with almost cap phys res and almost cap mag res
whats the point of a barb with 60k+ hp with 18k elemental resistance base (80% reduction)
whats the point of all that debuffs some classes have to stack to deal significant damage (like mystics or venos) like 20% res redux, or 40% res redux
that after passives now are like 8% and 17% new redux...
new balance sucks big time, there is no balance at all lolmypers.pw/1.7/#123510
mypers.pw/1.7/#123524
i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg0 -
Ohh well short story is ever gear% debuff classes had has effectively been neutered. only things that are trully effective are amps now. Thats probably why all the bms you know are going for the passives, it bassicaly renders undine, spark, cleric seals, devour(?), ironwood (maybe demon to?), to basically minimal % decreases.SilverMayhem - Archosaur wrote: »@XXHotXx
Nerf on Debuffs.. Hmm... Not much I can say about this. Only Passive Aggressive Nerf on Debuffs I saw was with Seeker Skills. Trying to make them all Single Target for 1 big Nuke to hell on 1 person. While I have a firm belief that want makes seekers so Deadly is their ability to do massive Debuffs on an aoe scale. Taking that away. Yeah they will still Zerk kill some ppl but not Endgame Players unless Equal gear.
I'm not an AA user tho. I play casual cleric and Veno. I main Barb, so ofc I think anything that Shoots wield colorful light out of its.... hand.. or whatever, is OP.
PWI Caters to the Range.
I'm not sure that last sentence is correct as now meele class has some serious stay in your face/near you potential. Demon farstike is one hell of a nuisance to any class that kites, I ended up getting killed by some barb that was well within my ability to kill simply because that mighty swing + arcane defence putting me off the ground literally just made me do nothing. and that new sin skill? its literally as strong as BIDS, granted it comes out as a Dot so it has no real bypass potential but still.I
A lot of people0 -
Cantabrum - Archosaur wrote: »i think the paralyze was necessary to counter purify proc weapons also barbs dont really have CC skills and bms well they really needed it. for the same reason ( counter purify proc)
purify is a defensive proc you cant kill anyone with it. and yes it was needed for toons with absolutely no stun resist to even things up. the bm paralyze i have less issue with, it uses chi to do and bms are a bit underpowered. barbs with their uber hp, fastest unmodified movement, and godly defenses and mega barma-bomb attack did not.Doom_Panda - Harshlands wrote: »If a barb uses Sunder-Arma combo in PvP they'll have to use pots or genie to get another spark for arma and if they do it constantly it's predictable as hell allowing you to AD/pot.
i am gonna assume you don't pk vs barbs alot. the can keep running a set it then when you exhaust everything do a mighty swing since you truly have no def left the combo is auto after that.0 -
How about the barb thats doing the sunder-arma combo vs you video so i can have something to watch...Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »i am gonna assume you don't pk vs barbs alot. the can keep running a set it then when you exhaust everything do a mighty swing since you truly have no def left the combo is auto after that.
Also... Barb vs Barb fights are a huge charm ****...Mains:
Doom_Panda- 102/101/102 R9 3rd cast Demon Barb 40k HP.
Dawnx - 100/85 Demon Cleric.
PsychicTuna- 101/100 Sage Psychic.
DawnMyst- 96 Demon Mystic.
PANDAS FTW. AND I b:heart ARMA! b:avoid0 -
Doom_Panda - Harshlands wrote: »How about the barb thats doing the sunder-arma combo vs you video so i can have something to watch...
Also... Barb vs Barb fights are a huge charm ****...
k i will post one soon.0 -
Cytte - Harshlands wrote: »Ohh well short story is ever gear% debuff classes had has effectively been neutered. only things that are trully effective are amps now. Thats probably why all the bms you know are going for the passives, it bassicaly renders undine, spark, cleric seals, devour(?), ironwood (maybe demon to?), to basically minimal % decreases.
I'm not sure that last sentence is correct as now meele class has some serious stay in your face/near you potential. Demon farstike is one hell of a nuisance to any class that kites, I ended up getting killed by some barb that was well within my ability to kill simply because that mighty swing + arcane defence putting me off the ground literally just made me do nothing. and that new sin skill? its literally as strong as BIDS, granted it comes out as a Dot so it has no real bypass potential but still.
b:surrender Sorry, I couldn't find this forum anymore probably for many GOOD REASONS.
While I'll admit again, im not a Caster user so I did not to think about the methods of which most attack. I will still say that PWI Caters to the Range just based on the Amount of Range 1 Caster has. A team of Range players can totally dominate a small NW map as long as they dont stay in AoE range. Pretty simple since most of your Max range is in the general Area of 25-28 meters. BMs seemed to be getting the short end of the rage here so thats why im not gonna talk about them. Seems most of the rage is directed towards Might Swing, which is a Melee skill. I could see if it had some Range or turned into an AoE of sorts. But it didn't. It was a stun. Got turned into a Para that bypasses all by IG like Effects. Okay. I took the QQ into consideration and gave you (not you personally) something to ponder. I gotta reach you.
I got my rrr9 so im 10speed. Still. I didn't get some insane amount of Magic Def like i have Physical Def. Thats whats bugging me. I have to reach you. I just dont see it. If I'm able to reach you on a Strict 1v1 Bases. I dont think that's my Skills fault or PWI being stupid.
@Auer: I dont think you've ever played a barb. I dont think you even really understand barb skills. First off. You talk about Arma as if its the hardest hitting skill we have when by skill output without any debuffs or buffs. It is not.
Secondly. You say Mighty Swing - Sunder (Demon I'm guessing) - Arma. Thats just plan stupid. Mighty Swings Para last 4 secs. Takes me about 3 get into kitty, use Sunder than Jump out of kitty. You are out of Para and you can now use that skill that you were rapidly clicking on with your mouse for the last 4 secs way before Arma even channels.
When I 1v1 I assume they will use certain Kill skills known to their class and I already have a way to get either around it or through it with minimal damage/Worry. How is it that Saio, Serah, Lex, Cibelly, and other rrr9+12 Clerics (some not even done with their sharding like you are so very close to just missing 2 JoSD) are able to tank on full waves of people and get through skills and you seem to be having this problem?
IMO, the answer is simple. 1v1. You Focus soo much on 1v1 you think it should always go 1 way. Atleast thats what Im reading into. If its not 50/50 its not worth it. I've said that before but it got ignored.
I really don't get it. Before when barbs had no real CC skills. We still had Arma, Mighty Swing, Demon Sunder. So now that I can either get a LUCKY para in allows you to draw the conclusion that my class is defined by 1 skill? That's why I have yet to agree with anything you have to say Auer. You can't make an argument about OverPowering barbs without stating mighty swing. Stick to the topic of Dex to Crit Ratio. It has a better tune, softer on the ears, than this nonsense of Mighty Swing TOO Op.
Give me a Gap Closer.
Make Arma a Projectile.
Allow my Purge to be 40%.
2 sec stun to 4.
20% 3 sec stun to 50% 5secs.
or Take away FireStorm for a range Skill that doesn't Use SPARKS
Then we can talk about Over Powered barbs 1 shotting everything based on there HP (and MP).
Food for Thought, did you know Arma Takes away your HP before it even hits a target?Logic = Against ToS. It's the answer to all "Wtf..." Moments during normal gameplay with other players.0 -
SilverMayhem - Archosaur wrote: »b:surrender Sorry, I couldn't find this forum anymore probably for many GOOD REASONS.
While I'll admit again, im not a Caster user so I did not to think about the methods of which most attack. I will still say that PWI Caters to the Range just based on the Amount of Range 1 Caster has. A team of Range players can totally dominate a small NW map as long as they dont stay in AoE range. Pretty simple since most of your Max range is in the general Area of 25-28 meters. BMs seemed to be getting the short end of the rage here so thats why im not gonna talk about them. Seems most of the rage is directed towards Might Swing, which is a Melee skill. I could see if it had some Range or turned into an AoE of sorts. But it didn't. It was a stun. Got turned into a Para that bypasses all by IG like Effects. Okay. I took the QQ into consideration and gave you (not you personally) something to ponder. I gotta reach you.
I got my rrr9 so im 10speed. Still. I didn't get some insane amount of Magic Def like i have Physical Def. Thats whats bugging me. I have to reach you. I just dont see it. If I'm able to reach you on a Strict 1v1 Bases. I dont think that's my Skills fault or PWI being stupid.
@Auer: I dont think you've ever played a barb. I dont think you even really understand barb skills. First off. You talk about Arma as if its the hardest hitting skill we have when by skill output without any debuffs or buffs. It is not.
Secondly. You say Mighty Swing - Sunder (Demon I'm guessing) - Arma. Thats just plan stupid. Mighty Swings Para last 4 secs. Takes me about 3 get into kitty, use Sunder than Jump out of kitty. You are out of Para and you can now use that skill that you were rapidly clicking on with your mouse for the last 4 secs way before Arma even channels.
When I 1v1 I assume they will use certain Kill skills known to their class and I already have a way to get either around it or through it with minimal damage/Worry. How is it that Saio, Serah, Lex, Cibelly, and other rrr9+12 Clerics (some not even done with their sharding like you are so very close to just missing 2 JoSD) are able to tank on full waves of people and get through skills and you seem to be having this problem?
IMO, the answer is simple. 1v1. You Focus soo much on 1v1 you think it should always go 1 way. Atleast thats what Im reading into. If its not 50/50 its not worth it. I've said that before but it got ignored.
I really don't get it. Before when barbs had no real CC skills. We still had Arma, Mighty Swing, Demon Sunder. So now that I can either get a LUCKY para in allows you to draw the conclusion that my class is defined by 1 skill? That's why I have yet to agree with anything you have to say Auer. You can't make an argument about OverPowering barbs without stating mighty swing. Stick to the topic of Dex to Crit Ratio. It has a better tune, softer on the ears, than this nonsense of Mighty Swing TOO Op.
Give me a Gap Closer.
Make Arma a Projectile.
Allow my Purge to be 40%.
2 sec stun to 4.
20% 3 sec stun to 50% 5secs.
or Take away FireStorm for a range Skill that doesn't Use SPARKS
Then we can talk about Over Powered barbs 1 shotting everything based on there HP (and MP).
Food for Thought, did you know Arma Takes away your HP before it even hits a target?
my barb knowledge is limited compared to yours yes, but this much i know. whenever there is an attack in the game with no defense or cost that is going to be a problem. doesn't have to be 50/50. this pvp system is rock papers scissors yes? who kills barbs in full end game gear in 1v1? i know as a cleric my two main problems will always be barbs and sins. with debuffs taking a nerf now it's even slimmer. but that's another point i guess. this thread is about 1v1 pk balance so that is why the writing s leaned towards it. as for waves of people i do fine in nw [when i am paying attention, lol], and tw is about strategy not killing so idc how may times i die in there as long as it is serving a greater purpose towards a plan. i have already stated these are prior to me upgrading the cards. i just wanna see how large of a power creep this was in additon to how huge of a back step this expansion took towards balancing the classes in general.0 -
Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »combo cheddar swing->sunder->arma
Well, that is just exactly what you said (even if you didn't mean it that way) :Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »why would you allow this to happen?
If you allow that to happen, you would have lost anyway. I don't think that new skill is ridiculously broken for the barbs attack power as it doesn't allow to put in the combo you said without being able to react. You forgot to put in the shapeshifts in your yellow text. I have nothing against arma. It can hit very hard, with the ability to zerk-crit. But it has a big cost and cast/range allows to counter it unless you ran out of all your options (meaning either gg barb or that you're ganked). That stun skill followed by any big damage attempt is by far not as scary as that spammable ranged aoe without cost.
I do think the skill is ridiculously annoying and totally not needed. Barbs are a tanky class and the only thing that allowed me to have a fair chance of killing an equally geared one alone was that they lacked control skills and that they can be controlled. It already needed good timing and the chance of chaining skills for a good 20+ sec without interruption. Now barbs can just chain that skill + genie bubble to be annoying like hell while not being able to really kill them alone. For me it's an annoyance factor that shouldn't exist like this, but I got that for more skills. I don't consider it really broken OP.0 -
Well, that is just exactly what you said (even if you didn't mean it that way) :
If you allow that to happen, you would have lost anyway. I don't think that new skill is ridiculously broken for the barbs attack power as it doesn't allow to put in the combo you said without being able to react. You forgot to put in the shapeshifts in your yellow text. I have nothing against arma. It can hit very hard, with the ability to zerk-crit. But it has a big cost and cast/range allows to counter it unless you ran out of all your options (meaning either gg barb or that you're ganked). That stun skill followed by any big damage attempt is by far not as scary as that spammable ranged aoe without cost.
I do think the skill is ridiculously annoying and totally not needed. Barbs are a tanky class and the only thing that allowed me to have a fair chance of killing an equally geared one alone was that they lacked control skills and that they can be controlled. It already needed good timing and the chance of chaining skills for a good 20+ sec without interruption. Now barbs can just chain that skill + genie bubble to be annoying like hell while not being able to really kill them alone. For me it's an annoyance factor that shouldn't exist like this, but I got that for more skills. I don't consider it really broken OP.
the combo itself is more complex than that but the meat and bones of it is what i put,also a good zoom after the opponent has used up his/her resources assures success. and with the barb skill set, you can survive without expending too many resources while your opponent expends theirs. i don't mind that barbs needed a new cc skill or that purge doesn't work vs it. what i do mind is that there is no cost to use it, ultra low cd and there is no defense possible. like i stated before that is the problem.0 -
Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »the combo itself is more complex than that but the meat and bones of it is what i put,also a good zoom after the opponent has used up his/her resources assures success. and with the barb skill set, you can survive without expending too many resources while your opponent expends theirs. i don't mind that barbs needed a new cc skill or that purge doesn't work vs it. what i do mind is that there is no cost to use it, ultra low cd and there is no defense possible. like i stated before that is the problem.
Faith won't remove paralyze but you can't be paralyzed with faith on. also immunity such as AD/Pan Gu's Essence/IG will protect you as well. So to state there is no defense means you're just not very smart. The correct statement would be there is no way to break out until the paralyze time is over.0 -
Akira_Green - Harshlands wrote: »Faith won't remove paralyze but you can't be paralyzed with faith on. also immunity such as AD/Pan Gu's Essence/IG will protect you as well. So to state there is no defense means you're just not very smart. The correct statement would be there is no way to break out until the paralyze time is over.
faith wont prevent it,
so your point is thats legit to have a spammable skill the only counter is to burn apothecary on itmypers.pw/1.7/#123510
mypers.pw/1.7/#123524
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XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »faith wont prevent it,
so your point is thats legit to have a spammable skill the only counter is to burn apothecary on it
Yes it will prevent it.Mains:
Doom_Panda- 102/101/102 R9 3rd cast Demon Barb 40k HP.
Dawnx - 100/85 Demon Cleric.
PsychicTuna- 101/100 Sage Psychic.
DawnMyst- 96 Demon Mystic.
PANDAS FTW. AND I b:heart ARMA! b:avoid0 -
Akira_Green - Harshlands wrote: »Faith won't remove paralyze but you can't be paralyzed with faith on. also immunity such as AD/Pan Gu's Essence/IG will protect you as well. So to state there is no defense means you're just not very smart. The correct statement would be there is no way to break out until the paralyze time is over.
i won't belittle you so please don't do so again....
okay you misunderstood...the no defense possible is the result of a string of set ups coupled with a few immobilizes and stuns, the purify won't proc for all, but person times ad ig and all that jazz to fight a good fight....when your resources, which are very limited as far as defenses for paralyze go, are expended....you have no defense. any good barb will draw out the fight in 1v1, unless an early victory can be assured. he has more hp than you more mobility and his defenses are better. if played correctly the ultra low cd, no cost and no defense [cause you've expended them already and the pot/ad is recharging while he can still mighty swing it all day] of mighty swing leads to no more rock paper scissor pk, just scissors and rock with mighty swing.0 -
A little fyi, Mighty Swing isn't 100% paralyze. It is a 50/50 chance between immobilize and paralyze so if you're locked for more than 2 in a row then that's pure luck lol. Also why are you 1v1'ing a barb in the first place? Clerics have the advantage over most classes and while a barb will charm tick to hell compared to the cleric the barb will win this fight. All there is to it. #EoriaToldYouSo0
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Akira_Green - Harshlands wrote: »A little fyi, Mighty Swing isn't 100% paralyze. It is a 50/50 chance between immobilize and paralyze so if you're locked for more than 2 in a row then that's pure luck lol. Also why are you 1v1'ing a barb in the first place? Clerics have the advantage over most classes and while a barb will charm tick to hell compared to the cleric the barb will win this fight. All there is to it. #EoriaToldYouSo
60% to Para, 40% to immobilize if demon.Mains:
Doom_Panda- 102/101/102 R9 3rd cast Demon Barb 40k HP.
Dawnx - 100/85 Demon Cleric.
PsychicTuna- 101/100 Sage Psychic.
DawnMyst- 96 Demon Mystic.
PANDAS FTW. AND I b:heart ARMA! b:avoid0 -
Barbs and Sins are broken atm - Barbs with the spammable Mighty Swing only way u get out is burning throu apoth which is quite stupid at that point as he might just tank your hits and start using Mighty Swing all over again while ur apoth is in cd you u will pretty much useless in a fight - Sins with cursed jail and life hunter and those 20k zerks so as an archer you 1v1 a sin with full r9r+12 is almost impossible atm and if u expel might just stun lock you for ages so yeah thats pwi breaking the game as always =p
just run from barbs and sins and kill the AAs lmao0 -
Akira_Green - Harshlands wrote: »A little fyi, Mighty Swing isn't 100% paralyze. It is a 50/50 chance between immobilize and paralyze so if you're locked for more than 2 in a row then that's pure luck lol. Also why are you 1v1'ing a barb in the first place? Clerics have the advantage over most classes and while a barb will charm tick to hell compared to the cleric the barb will win this fight. All there is to it. #EoriaToldYouSo
Just because a barb has a **** load of hp doesn't already guarantee an automatic win you stupid bigot.Do you hate me? Good, that makes for an adequate conversation starter.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Niteshadows - Harshlands wrote: »Just because a barb has a **** load of hp doesn't already guarantee an automatic win you stupid bigot.
the new barb CC covers the gap between a t3 geared to any other class r9r3
in 1on1s i agree its not relevant,
but in mass pvp (that is what the game is about atm) its sort of game-breaking
but still any deity sin will 2shot the barb from stealth so wont matter anyways
just bring more sins to the battlefield to win b:thanksmypers.pw/1.7/#123510
mypers.pw/1.7/#123524
i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg0 -
Barbs with the spammable Mighty Swing only way u get out is burning throu apoth
Well it has 6s cooldown and 4s duration. So you can get away from it. Only sins and BMs can make indefinite stunlocks right ?
That said, i do feel barbs are probably OP. I dont have any pvp skills or experience, my R9 is only +8 with flawless, but i start feeling some of the OPness comming alrdy
Some caster and archers in NW still sometimes kill me before i even notice they there though and generally i fear them much more than other barbs 
Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »the new barb CC covers the gap between a t3 geared to any other class r9r3
in 1on1s i agree its not relevant,
but in mass pvp (that is what the game is about atm) its sort of game-breaking
but still any deity sin will 2shot the barb from stealth so wont matter anyways
just bring more sins to the battlefield to win b:thanks
The sad part is normally there are no more than 3-5 sins in a single 80 vs 80 TW on dreamweaver.0
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