Gold trading ruining already bad economy
Comments
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Sorry , you are very wrong here.
PWI does not care at all if there is a healty balance between cs'ers and non cs'ers
I already sad that they don't care. Learn to read.They destroyed that with the nation wars update and they don't give a rat's *** of gold goes for 5 or 10m.
People would disagree with you since nw stooped aps rule of canys/raps market and made nirvana gear more available for people.To be competitive u need gold and boutique items. Sorry to tell you ,but with *nice* g16 gear and *nice* weekly shards in it your not competitive at all unless u only doing pve.
Pwi made possible to get trough game everything that you possibly need to play game. About gear you don't have clue what you talking about so read Lolgasmic post. High lvl gems are biggest troll in this game because benefits you get from them are not worth of money you pay for them, specially now when you have cards and spirits. But there will be always nubs to pay for them:)If Pwi would care about this game they should care about a healthy economy and not add overpowered **** in each expansion which can only be obtained via boutique.
You should seriously read some basic economy and how supply in demand working.0 -
Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »Actually Nation Wars introduced a coin sink that didn't exist before. Craft supply tokens in to uncanny or rapture crystals, and you pay a coin fee; that coin is removed from the economy. Buy said crystals from other players, and there is no fee, all the coin remains in the economy.
The biggest factor in driving gold prices up is not Nation Wars (which removes coin from the economy; you don't get any coins for participating, and anything that you craft from the supply tokens you do receive costs coins), it's auto-cultivation (which adds coins to the economy.) More coins in the economy = more demand for gold = higher gold prices.
What PWI needs is more attractive coin sinks... an NPC that say, sells Perfect Tokens of Luck for 20k. Or change the tiger badge quest so the rewards are perceived to be worth the cost.
Really? Really ? nation war is a coin sink? with a cost for a rapture of 10k when it was before up to 2m? As i wrote before , nation war was a coin sink for a short period time, but after everybody is done with their upgrades that simply gone. Raptures and Cannies should have NEVER been added to the nw forges or at least for a MUCH higer cost.
Crafting cost should have been something like 1m a rapture and 200k a canny and we wouldnt have this problem now.Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver wrote: »
I already sad that they don't care. Learn to read.
Yes , and that they dont care is who's fault? the players? Learn to read.
People would disagree with you since nw stooped aps rule of canys/raps market and made nirvana gear more available for people.
aps never *ruled* the rap/canny market. I made a full set of g16 gear and 3 g16 weapons without having a aps sin/bm.
Caster vana much more effective. And if u wanted to stop *ruling* aps , they showed that this is easy possible with the aps shield of the new bosses, no need to completely crash the market.
Pwi made possible to get trough game everything that you possibly need to play game. About gear you don't have clue what you talking about so read Lolgasmic post. High lvl gems are biggest troll in this game because benefits you get from them are not worth of money you pay for them, specially now when you have cards and spirits. But there will be always nubs to pay for them:)
u are the nub if u think there are no benefits. tanking 10-15 people in nation war is no benefit? 1-shotting the *nice* geared g16 gear with weekly shards and +7 eventgold refined people is no benefit? But there will be always nubs who think its not worth it and not pay for them. Cards and spirit? U got the free A cards and me the boutique S cards. Now guess who is benefiting more?
You should seriously read some basic economy and how supply in demand working.
u should seriously stop trolling. Pwi creats demand buy adding things to the game. and top things ONLY supplied via boutique.0 -
RankNine - Momaganon wrote: »and CONGRATZ MORAI SERVER! you officially reached the new gold-maximum price of 3.999.900.
yep thats the maximum sell price for gold. gonna take some funny screenshots the next days
So this one wasn't a urban legend
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Yes, it's a coin sink. Nation Wars does not introduce any new coin in the economy, yet it drains coins in the form of repairs and crafting fees shared by everyone who participates in it. Coin circulated between players trading their items is just that "circulated". That coin was already thee and is simply moving hands.Really? Really ? nation war is a coin sink? with a cost for a rapture of 10k when it was before up to 2m?
Or do you intend to claim that the 5% fee the AH charges is also not a coin sink because a person can get millions from selling things in it?(Insert fancy image here)
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Yes, it's a coin sink. Nation Wars does not introduce any new coin in the economy, yet it drains coins in the form of repairs and crafting fees shared by everyone who participates in it. Coin circulated between players trading their items is just that "circulated". That coin was already thee and is simply moving hands.
Or do you intend to claim that the 5% fee the AH charges is also not a coin sink because a person can get millions from selling things in it?
its not really a coin sink when u take out coins a certain way but on the hand hand insert way more coin into the game then what is taken out by a coin sink. remove the overload ways which coins are pumped in and then u got urself a real coin sink. As it is now the coin is just circulating between pwi to players to pwi to players again with a increasing amount from pwi to players.0 -
The coin sink from NW is the thing that has been keeping the whole economy stable for the past year, before the new horizon came out. With 10k fee per conversion (and 1.3mil per sow), 78k supply token per session, NW removes around 1.5bil to 3bil coins from the economy. It has been one of the major coin-sink that counter acts to the coin-gains like tw pay(0.6bil per week), bh rewards, people grinding or botting even before the auto-cultivation came out, coins from perfect tokens, etc...
Rough estimate on my server... there are around one hundred bots farming at any given time. Bots farms roughly 0.5mil to 2mil per hr (even more during 2x). So, every week, botting dumps around 8bil~33bil coins on the economy, every week.
I don't claim that my numbers are accurate. But the fact still remains that before New Horizon came out, the economy was relatively stable; new horizon introduced auto cultivation, which dumps massive amount of coins into the system, while no major coin-sinks were counter-introduced at the same time. The end result is that the total amount of coins in the system will just keep building over time, resulting in inflation.
Its only a matter of time for inflation to hit every server. Bigger/older servers will be able to temporarily absorb the effects of inflation, while smaller servers will take a harder hit. Morai's economy was already toasted. PvP servers can limit the effects of inflation by killing more bots.
And blaming merchants for high prices is like shooting the messenger. They are only carrier of bad news. But ultimately, its not their fault that the game economy is badly designed.Magnanimous_0 -
and nation war is not a coin sink for the simply reason that the nation war token can be sold to a npc for 10k a piece itself. So nation war actually ADDS to the coins.0
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Demandragore - Heavens Tear wrote: »But the fact still remains that before New Horizon came out, the economy was relatively stable; new horizon introduced auto cultivation, which dumps massive amount of coins into the system, while no major coin-sinks were counter-introduced at the same time. The end result is that the total amount of coins in the system will just keep building over time, resulting in inflation.
Its only a matter of time for inflation to hit every server. Bigger/older servers will be able to temporarily absorb the effects of inflation, while smaller servers will take a harder hit. Morai's economy was already toasted. PvP servers can limit the effects of inflation by killing more bots.
That really is the key point here. All chinese servers are PvP servers. The game is designed for them, we just import it over here and throw the same sht onto our PvE servers.
We need a major coin sink or we need to remove botting from PvE servers.
Anyone with any grasp of intelligence can clearly see this, yet our GMs seem to have missed it.DarkSkiesx - Demon Archer
mypers.pw/1.7/#114350
DarkSeasx - Sage Assassin
mypers.pw/1.7/#136481
youtube.com/darkskiesx
Tempest-dw.shivtr.com0 -
Demandragore - Heavens Tear wrote: »The coin sink from NW is the thing that has been keeping the whole economy stable for the past year, before the new horizon came out. With 10k fee per conversion (and 1.3mil per sow), 78k supply token per session, NW removes around 1.5bil to 3bil coins from the economy. It has been one of the major coin-sink that counter acts to the coin-gains like tw pay(0.6bil per week), bh rewards, people grinding or botting even before the auto-cultivation came out, coins from perfect tokens, etc...
Rough estimate on my server... there are around one hundred bots farming at any given time. Bots farms roughly 0.5mil to 2mil per hr (even more during 2x). So, every week, botting dumps around 8bil~33bil coins on the economy, every week.
I don't claim that my numbers are accurate. But the fact still remains that before New Horizon came out, the economy was relatively stable; new horizon introduced auto cultivation, which dumps massive amount of coins into the system, while no major coin-sinks were counter-introduced at the same time. The end result is that the total amount of coins in the system will just keep building over time, resulting in inflation.
Its only a matter of time for inflation to hit every server. Bigger/older servers will be able to temporarily absorb the effects of inflation, while smaller servers will take a harder hit. Morai's economy was already toasted. PvP servers can limit the effects of inflation by killing more bots.
And blaming merchants for high prices is like shooting the messenger. They are only carrier of bad news. But ultimately, its not their fault that the game economy is badly designed.
+1 for the post b:victory0 -
It's two things.
A. Less people overall are CSing. Which makes it harder for everyone.
and
B. Botting. tbh, the system itself should never have been introduced.
God forbid when gold hits 4m though. We will all be ****ed.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
I
Subtraction.
/blatant sig copy is blatant
105/105/105 obtained! b:cute0 -
I would suggest 3 fixes:
Crabs for 5.000 coins @ NPC.
Apoth lvl 90 for 50.000 coins @ NPC.
Reduce or remove DQ coin value, but keep the DQ points that should have been removed 3 months ago.
All 3 may be overkill
I do kind of expect PWI to fix it before things go totally out of controll though. (which is not today or tomorrow, we just have some interesting sales in a row now causing a short term spike in the gold price, but i do agree on the long term inflation problem) It is in their own interest. The casual non-CSing players are important for PWI to keep the game fun for their customers. And i know PW china = not PWI etc, but i guess they are payed by PWI, so it is still in their interest not to let PWI go to hell.Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »
Anyone with any grasp of intelligence can clearly see this, yet our GMs seem to have missed it.
Our GMs dont have the power to implement major coin sink, at least not that kind we need.0 -
WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »I would suggest 3 fixes:
Crabs for 5.000 coins @ NPC.
Apoth lvl 90 for 50.000 coins @ NPC.
Reduce or remove DQ coin value, but keep the DQ points that should have been removed 3 months ago.
All 3 may be overkill
I do kind of expect PWI to fix it before things go totally out of controll though. (which is not today or tomorrow, we just have some interesting sales in a row now causing a short term spike in the gold price, but i do agree on the long term inflation problem) It is in their own interest. The casual non-CSing players are important for PWI to keep the game fun for their customers. And i know PW china = not PWI etc, but i guess they are payed by PWI, so it is still in their interest not to let PWI go to hell.
u wanna fight gold prices with crab meat? b:laugh
If you wanna see some effect , something needs to be be added to the game which Endgame players want, what they need to be compatitive, something they really desire. It should be farmable , but not bottable, u should need a lot of it and supply should be limited so it will take long time to abain it by urself.
I have never used a single crab meat in this game b:chuckle0 -
Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »It's two things.
A. Less people overall are CSing. Which makes it harder for everyone.
and
B. Botting. tbh, the system itself should never have been introduced.
God forbid when gold hits 4m though. We will all be ****ed.Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver wrote: »Our GMs dont have the power to implement major coin sink, at least not that kind we need.
Just as a side note but I think you should really consider, you are speaking about PVE servers, all this has nothing to do with PVP servers so far (meaning Temptation's statement is completly valid due to the known fact that PWCN are PVP servers and they program for themselves most of the time).
For those in pvp server there are just a few bots out there, I bot 2h a day to pay my daily repair bills and charms for pv... that's all, and so does most of people. Nothing like bot-armies like I guess you may find in PVE servers (If I played, I would posibly do that myself tbh).
Plus we have a huge load of CSers too xD
I've been able to merch (not farm, I can't go to NW due to timings... nor had any sin for the NV days) full r9rr +8 on +11 bow in just a couple years merching, and now I'm almost done buying my RL gf her R9... Guess that would be imposible in other servers? Perhaps...
Just wanted to share the view from a PVP-server, and wishing all the best to your server-type-related issues, hope the CM scales your issues and someohow you find a solution for your trouble!0 -
If you wanna see some effect , something needs to be be added to the game which Endgame players want, what they need to be compatitive, something they really desire. It should be farmable , but not bottable, u should need a lot of it and supply should be limited so it will take long time to abain it by urself.
....
War Avatar C packsDarkSkiesx - Demon Archer
mypers.pw/1.7/#114350
DarkSeasx - Sage Assassin
mypers.pw/1.7/#136481
youtube.com/darkskiesx
Tempest-dw.shivtr.com0 -
Who remembers when gold was less than 100k? b:chuckle
Then they introduced Chest of Coins to cube as reward, gold price doubled overnight.
Then came the first packs and it doubled again.
The gold price cap in auction house has been raised twice already, iirc.0 -
yup some toons are controlling the gold prices, and those players are the gold buyers, the seller may try to sell at a price but if no one buys the next time the price will drop but if too many payers want to buy gold and they are paying high prices the price will go up, so yes some players are controlling the price, the buyers are getting the prices highcause they can and want to pay those prices b:thanksb:bye0
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DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »....
War Avatar C packs
really? you will have a hard time to convince me to take my rl money charge and turn it into coins for some lausy C packs. I could just take that gold and buy C-S chests ,where i have at least a chance for a higher card.......b:bye0 -
really? you will have a hard time to convince me to take my rl money charge and turn it into coins for some lausy C packs. I could just take that gold and buy C-S chests ,where i have at least a chance for a higher card.......b:bye
Orrrrr you could just farm them...FSP coins can be made into C packs which can be traded.....Just sayin.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Yeah packs took it to 400k because that was about even with what the return from the tokens was. The escalation past that was just supply/demand/greed.Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »Who remembers when gold was less than 100k? b:chuckle
Then they introduced Chest of Coins to cube as reward, gold price doubled overnight.
Then came the first packs and it doubled again.
The gold price cap in auction house has been raised twice already, iirc.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
really? you will have a hard time to convince me to take my rl money charge and turn it into coins for some lausy C packs. I could just take that gold and buy C-S chests ,where i have at least a chance for a higher card.......b:bye
Well, that's good and all but once you have some good cards you'll want to level them up and in order to max/reawaken a set of cards you'll need a lot of cards plus if you want to reawaken your cards a second time you'll have to use another reawakened card, the system requires you to devour it through the NPC so that means for every card you want to RB2 you'll need another RB1 card...that's a lot of cards we're talking about.
At that point you'll probably want the cheapest option that can give you the most cards that you can consume. It'd be much more worth it to use your coin to buy extra FS coins for multiple C packs than spend 4gold for the boutique pack that will only give you one card per pack.
This is of course for the more competitive people. Those that don't care much can just farm FS at their pace and level them whenever.
[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★0 -
really? you will have a hard time to convince me to take my rl money charge and turn it into coins for some lausy C packs. I could just take that gold and buy C-S chests ,where i have at least a chance for a higher card.......b:bye
Gettings S-card nuema set =
HP: +2098
Phys. Attack +1144
Mag. Attack +1144
Phys. Res.: +2826
Mag. Res.: +1692
Spirit +272
Rebirth the nuema set 2 times and you get
HP: +5500
Phys. Attack +3308
Mag. Attack +3308
Phys. Res.: +7599
Mag. Res.: +4419
Spirit +940
As a bm, the difference
HP: 3.4k hp difference = 226 vit points
Phys. Attack 2164 = roughly 29 garnet gems in your weapon
Mag. Attack = dbb just hits harder now b:cute
Phys. Res.: 6.7k = 2 r9 rings+2 star destiny rings
Mag. Res.: 3.8k = 2 nw cube necklaces
Spirit 66% dmg amp over people who only have S lvl cards, possibly higher closer to 100% dmg amp over people who have low spirit. Not the right way to think of it, but imagine another 100 attack lvls.
Even if you only put on r9 3rd cast, non refined gear, with that card set, i am sure you can be close to quite a few r9 3rd cast +10~+12 people in terms of stats.
The above will take an extremely long time0 -
WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »much more than 340/month i assure you. It grows exponentially you know. Made a few pathethic millions during the first half year. Made at least 3b since christmass.
You can start about peoples real life and their mothers. But reallity is, you are making an awefull fool out of yourself and you remain clueless. If instead you would open your eyes and say to yourself "if he can do it, so can I damnit !" and then work till you find out how, you could be a rich man.
Oh and as said, not 24/7. In fact, the way of merchanting i arived at now could be done by just setting up your catshop once after each server reset and being only about 5 minutes twice per day yourself.
Now what are you going to do ? call me a lyar ? call me a cheat ? a lifeless mother depending farmer ?
Or are you gonna find out how to make 1b per month by logging in 5mins a day ?
That is the choise in game and in life. And i like spreading that bit of wisdom since it seems to be so rare while it is so defining for your life. Stop talking more succesfull people down and start believing in yourself.
Not everyone has the knowledge or the time to spend to make the money you claim you're making. Demanding that everyone who doesn't is a lazy **** who can't be bothered to " make 1b per month by logging in 5mins a day" just makes you an ***.
Whether gold prices are high due to collusion or sheer f*ing *demand* has nothing to do with how rich you are, and how much better you are than everyone else.
Either park your massive ego and get back to topic, or go back to the game and make more ******n coin. That seems to be *your* endgame.
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I honestly don't give a rat's *** how big your coin pile is. And you're massive e-wang doesn't affect me in the slightest, even *if* we were on the same server.
RedMenace
\The TW people have a phrase that fits here
\\"non-factor"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
Robert A. Heinlein0 -
Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver wrote: »Orrrrr you could just farm them...FSP coins can be made into C packs which can be traded.....Just sayin.
This ^Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »Well, that's good and all but once you have some good cards you'll want to level them up and in order to max/reawaken a set of cards you'll need a lot of cards plus if you want to reawaken your cards a second time you'll have to use another reawakened card, the system requires you to devour it through the NPC so that means for every card you want to RB2 you'll need another RB1 card...that's a lot of cards we're talking about.
At that point you'll probably want the cheapest option that can give you the most cards that you can consume. It'd be much more worth it to use your coin to buy extra FS coins for multiple C packs than spend 4gold for the boutique pack that will only give you one card per pack.
This is of course for the more competitive people. Those that don't care much can just farm FS at their pace and level them whenever.
It takes 1456 exp to level an S card to 80/80.
War Avatar Treasure Box (4 gold boutique)
S: 1.04%
A: 3.50%
B: 33.84%
C: 61.38%
S-B Box (10 flowsilver 4 gold)
S: 2.08%
A: 6.30%
B: 92.16%
A-C Box (20 flowsilver)
A: 13.30%
B: 20.16%
C: 66.78%
B-C Box (8 flowsilver)
B: 33.12%
C: 66.96%
C Box (2 flowsilver/1x C pack)
C: 100%
Assuming DW prices. Gold 2.6m, FS coin 350k, C Pack 350k
Average exp from 100 WATB 156.96 at a cost of 1.04b so to level the card 9.6 billion coins
Average exp from 100 S-B Boxes 236.62 at a cost of 1.39b so to level the card 8.55 billion coins
100 A-C box 173.6 exp cost 700m so total 5.8 billion coins
100 B-C box 133.2 exp cost 280m so total 3.06 billion coins
100 C box 100 exp cost 35m so total to level your S card 509.6 million coins.
Also the c packs are tradeable, no need to sell the converted FS coins.DarkSkiesx - Demon Archer
mypers.pw/1.7/#114350
DarkSeasx - Sage Assassin
mypers.pw/1.7/#136481
youtube.com/darkskiesx
Tempest-dw.shivtr.com0 -
Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »Not everyone has the knowledge or the time to spend to make the money you claim you're making. Demanding that everyone who doesn't is a lazy **** who can't be bothered to " make 1b per month by logging in 5mins a day" just makes you an ***.
Whether gold prices are high due to collusion or sheer f*ing *demand* has nothing to do with how rich you are, and how much better you are than everyone else.
Either park your massive ego and get back to topic, or go back to the game and make more ******n coin. That seems to be *your* endgame.
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I honestly don't give a rat's *** how big your coin pile is. And you're massive e-wang doesn't affect me in the slightest, even *if* we were on the same server.
RedMenace
\The TW people have a phrase that fits here
\\"non-factor"
If youd read a little more carefully, you could understand that i am trying to help people. To shake them awake a little, to open their eyes and believe in themselves and their abilities.
Im afraid it was wasted on you, but that doesnt matter. I know that somewhere there are people who will be inspired and that makes me happy Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
i think people missing the point here.
Its not abouts cards and sets and how many bonus.
I wrote this because somebody was advertising C-packs as *coin sink*
Nobody charges real money to convert it to coin to buy C-packs. This aint happen and is nothing else then wishful thinking.0 -
snuggles1971 wrote: »i think people missing the point here.
Its not abouts cards and sets and how many bonus.
I wrote this because somebody was advertising C-packs as *coin sink*
Nobody charges real money to convert it to coin to buy C-packs. This aint happen and is nothing else then wishful thinking.
People reading your claim that you say none will spend money on C-packs probably assumed you thought it was for the C cards to use as cards. They tried to explain why C-packs are not just junk, they are the exp to level your A and S cards.
Leveling your war avatar can give significant bonusses. And people pay fortunes for little bonusses like darkflame stones. So why wouldnt they do it to upgrade their war avatars ?
I actually like the idea of war avatar exp as a coin sink. Although maybe it should be limited to what degree. They just made all this stuff daily etc to keep all our OPness growth a bit in check. I think it should stay that way Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
i know that u level cards with c-packs. But i would not charge zen for it. I would simply farm myself. Its simply not good enough to actually spend real money on it. Its not a *must have* thing. I can do my fsp daily runs , buy catalysts and get B-S packs and see if I even get a better card or a card for set or to reawaken.The left over cards i can still use for leveling. But I would NOT take that gold and buy C-packs.0
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snuggles1971 wrote: »i know that u level cards with c-packs. But i would not charge zen for it. I would simply farm myself. Its simply not good enough to actually spend real money on it.
Stopping you here because... that's your own personal opinion. And that's fine.
Meanwhile, there are PLENTY who would disagree with you. Meridians are free and simple. People have cash shopped for those and Mystical/Holy pills each have a market of people willing to shell out coin for them. Love, Up and Down, was not a needed upgrade from a Pan Gu, yet people were still willing to dish out over 100m more for one prior to NW where the price gap between the two skyrocketed. Unlike the difference between those two tomes, an unleveled set of cards and a leveled set have a HUGE and very noticeable gap between them. One even larger than a complete meridian versus an untouched one (and again, people are willing to pay for meridian pills). So while you, personally, may not feel it world be valid for a coin/gold sink, there are MANY others who would quickly disagree with you.(Insert fancy image here)0 -
don't spend money on this game!!!!! just merch!0
![http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]](http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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