Gold trading ruining already bad economy

Potgod - Sanctuary · March 2014

Gold price's are getting to be ridiculous. Mainly because u got group of toons that control the prices . sollution
of sorts make each acct only able to trade so much gold per week maybe.

biseptolica · March 2014

Potgod - Sanctuary wrote: »

Gold price's are getting to be ridiculous.

Agree to that.
It's outrageos for the price to rise with 1m / gold in just 2 weeks.

WannaBM - Archosaur · March 2014

It is so tiring all those conspiracy statements that it is because people controll the price.

I may not be the richest guy on the server, but over the last 1,5-2 years i managed to grow from nothing to 4billion coin + 2 toons worth together another 2-3 billion coins. So i think im not an idiot if its about PWI markets.

Noone controls anything (or at least not much) its market mechanics. If you'd stop crying and believe conspiracies and instead start using your brain and think about what is really happening, you could do your advantage with it. But i guess its better you dont. For me to become rich, someone has to be losing. And nope, i dont need to try and control any price for that.

And you know real life is pretty much the same. You probably believe the illuminati control everything

The mind plays weird tricks on you when you are being disadvantaged and it is incapable of understandng the real cause.

biseptolica · March 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

It is so tiring all those conspiracy statements that it is because people controll the price.

I may not be the richest guy on the server, but over the last 1,5-2 years i managed to grow from nothing to 4billion coin + 2 toons worth together another 2-3 billion coins. So i think im not an idiot if its about PWI markets.

And you know real life is pretty much the same. You probably believe the illuminati control everything The mind plays weird tricks on you when you are being disadvantaged and it is incapable of understandng the real cause.

Dude, if 1. your mother gave you hundred of $ to buy coins in this game or 2. u boted this game like a maniac with 4 hands, that doesn't give the right to call us conspirators.
Assuming we are normal non Richie Rich/ boting robots, we cant stay 24/24 to farm coins to get 4billions coins in 1 year. We have a real life, dude, some have families , some have a gf to kiss her on the mouth. You may try sometimes , real life is awsome.

WannaBM - Archosaur · March 2014

The fact that you cannot get your head around that i merchanted it all and accuse me of botting/CSing proves my point i think. And my mother has little to do with it, most likely i am old enough to be your father.

seitori · March 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

It is so tiring all those conspiracy statements that it is because people controll the price.

I may not be the richest guy on the server, but over the last 1,5-2 years i managed to grow from nothing to 4billion coin + 2 toons worth together another 2-3 billion coins. So i think im not an idiot if its about PWI markets.

Noone controls anything (or at least not much) its market mechanics. If you'd stop crying and believe conspiracies and instead start using your brain and think about what is really happening, you could do your advantage with it. But i guess its better you dont. For me to become rich, someone has to be losing. And nope, i dont need to try and control any price for that.

And you know real life is pretty much the same. You probably believe the illuminati control everything The mind plays weird tricks on you when you are being disadvantaged and it is incapable of understandng the real cause.

In Real life there are such things as laws to prevent Racketeering ~ whether it be by stopping price-gouging & profiteering or by nipping insider trading for cornering of the markets, it is to bad that PWi doesn't bother to have any of that sort of stuff at all...

But to be honest though, I don't agree with the OPs version here of cornering of the gold market here?? reasons > how do they corner the market when they're practically the only 1s using their own credit cards to sell gold for Coin on the servers????? it would of made sense if they were buying gold from others and then selling it at higher prices /but/ they're actually the 1s bringing the mass quantities of gold into the market, so until more people decide to purchase gold & zhen and try and sell it on the server markets then ofcourse its gonna remain high.....b:bye

PS. OP: If you limited those who actually are selling gold on the market to only certain amounts, then that would only make the gold prices go ^^ stratospherically in price, it wouldn't lower the prices being asked....

Kymraja - Raging Tide · March 2014

@biseptolica

don't insult people, and, on-topic, you're making me laugh hard. Learn to merch, no need to be online 24h\day, no need to have tons of starting money, no need to "bot like robots".
You just need to have an average sized-functional brain

biseptolica · March 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

The fact that you cannot get your head around that i merchanted it all and accuse me of botting/CSing proves my point i think. And my mother has little to do with it, most likely i am old enough to be your father.

Arguing without subject about mothers is futile.
Im just saying that 4 billions coins / year, 340 m / mounth smells funny.

WannaBM - Archosaur · March 2014

biseptolica wrote: »

Arguing without subject about mothers is futile.
Im just saying that 4 billions coins / year, 340 m / mounth smells funny.

much more than 340/month i assure you. It grows exponentially you know. Made a few pathethic millions during the first half year. Made at least 3b since christmass.

You can start about peoples real life and their mothers. But reallity is, you are making an awefull fool out of yourself and you remain clueless. If instead you would open your eyes and say to yourself "if he can do it, so can I damnit !" and then work till you find out how, you could be a rich man.

Oh and as said, not 24/7. In fact, the way of merchanting i arived at now could be done by just setting up your catshop once after each server reset and being only about 5 minutes twice per day yourself.

Now what are you going to do ? call me a lyar ? call me a cheat ? a lifeless mother depending farmer ?
Or are you gonna find out how to make 1b per month by logging in 5mins a day ?
That is the choise in game and in life. And i like spreading that bit of wisdom since it seems to be so rare while it is so defining for your life. Stop talking more succesfull people down and start believing in yourself.

RankNine - Momaganon · March 2014

biseptolica wrote: »

Arguing without subject about mothers is futile.
Im just saying that 4 billions coins / year, 340 m / mounth smells funny.

i make that just by doing my dailys.
and did you seriously rage about him "cashing"? heck, if this game still had enough cashers, we would not face such high goldprices.
3.7 mil "buy" - empty "sell" on morai.

but who cares, game will die anyway in 7 days

scruncy · March 2014

I dont know what people are expecting.

High gold prices are PURELY pwi's fault. explanation is very easy.

There is NOTHING in this game anymore you need coins for.coins are totally worthless.
Every single item a end game player needs is coming from the boutique.
Orbs, DoD , DoT , R9 mats ,Lucky coins, Garnets ,Catalysts are all boutique items.

It all started with the Nation wars update. Before raptures and cannies are needed for end game gear ( summerwind token, g15 and g16 armour/weapons). Endgame players needed to buy them with coins since they could only be farmed and supply was kinda limited.
After they added those on the nation war forges for a idiotic low price there was no limited supply anymore. We seen a short period of stable gold prices because people did all ther upgrades which u need a few coins for.
Morai was always ahead of other servers ,for the simply reason that people got more nw tokens then other servers ( 700-800 nw token a weekend was nothing special ). Rap/canny prices droppt faster and gold rising faster then on any other server.

Once you done with ur nw upgrades, what u do? people got billions of coins and nothing to spend it on. the logical thing is ,you buying gold for refines and sharding.
gold will rise without open end ,unless pwi is adding something coins are actual needed for.

So, for all the people who where celebrating after the nw update that the gap between cs'ers and non cs'ers gets closed, this is what u got.

As for myself , I do charge once in a blue moon to buy some stuff from the boutique. But tell me a single reason why should i sell gold in ah? wtf do it need coins for?
And on top of this all ,they gave as botting............

Dont complain about gold prices, get used to it.And prepare for even higer b:bye

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · March 2014

scruncy wrote: »

There is NOTHING in this game anymore you need coins for.coins are totally worthless.
Every single item a end game player needs is coming from the boutique.
Orbs, DoD , DoT , R9 mats ,Lucky coins, Garnets ,Catalysts are all boutique items.

War Avatar C packs/Tradeable FlowSilver coins ~ Farmed, need to be bought with coin, limited supply.

Their demand will increase when more people start leveling their cards/sets.

Although I agree with the rest of your post.

Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver · March 2014

There is no conspiracy in the game and GMs are not controlling gold prices.

Reason why gold is high is simple - NO COIN SINK IN GAME (well we can maybe blame pwi for that).

There are lot of ways to earn in game money, while there is nothing except some fees and teleporting to spend money on. Everything farmable in game is cheap and only items people actually spending money on and want are items from boutique. There for people buying gold to get them and they have more and more money to buy that gold. So gold going up and up.

Ad to that fact that people that cash, sells gold when nothing interesting is on sale, and when you have desirable items, they use that gold to get stuff for themselves instead of selling it. So gold again going up cause there is not enough of gold.

So we need some major coin sink in game that will make people spend more money in game and be less willing to spend in sane price per gold. Like for example if you have npc that sells high lvl gems, sot... and other stuff.

But I don't see that happening since that would make people cash less for packs and r9 gear items which is not in pwi interest.

Loirielle - Archosaur · March 2014

Other reason gold price is high is that CSers don't need coins.
They can straightly buy everything from boutique (r9, refines, packs (for shards), avatars).

Those things they need to buy with coins are cheap (like nirvana crystals, eod/eoo, etc).
Coins for those can easlily be obtained from selling tokens and items from packs.

So why a CSer need to sell gold instead of using it?

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · March 2014

For the most part, it's greed.

The people who are selling the gold "set" the prices. Because the masses will keep paying them, they remain high.

If people completely stopped paying high prices for gold, then the sellers would be forced to lower their prices.

Since people are perfectly willing to keep shelling out coin, the prices will continue to rise when demand increases, and they rarely drop back down because we keep paying it.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

trands · March 2014

Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There is no conspiracy in the game and GMs are not controlling gold prices.

I don't get how you can say that tbh. The ones deciding can regulate gold prices. You even said so yourself :

Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver wrote: »

- only items people actually spending money on and want are items from boutique.
What scruncy said. Before, top gear was TT, 3* and/or molds. All farmable with only a minor part of gold involved that was basically for lazy ppl and acted as a cap for those gears prices (boutique was just a substitute to gain time). The top gear now is not realistically farmable and is majorly based on boutique only items. This is a deliberate choice. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't have reinforced that direction recently (S cards needing boutique item).

- when you have desirable items, they use that gold to get stuff for themselves instead of selling it. So gold again going up cause there is not enough of gold.
You just said that coins are worthless. Ofc nobody sells gold. A cashshopper used to have a use for coins. If they had real money but no time, they charge, sell and then buy from those who have time but no real money.

- Like for example if you have npc that sells high lvl gems, sot... and other stuff.
Till now, they only ever introduced lower-par stuff. This is nice for certain players, but that group is pretty much out of the issue. It doesn't solve that those who charge have no reason to sell gold, nor the fact that competitive players still need boutique-only items. Imagen someone going R9 with JOSD on TW reward medals, bh/cube chips, drop rep items and tiger shards or shabby-combined b:shocked

- But I don't see that happening since that would make people cash less for packs and r9 gear items which is not in pwi interest.
It's not such a linear equation. Unhappy players are in game less and don't charge as much.

I kinda agree with scruncy, but I also think PW pissing of players is a major factor. This can be seen very well with Morai having so much higher prices then other servers (though I'm not sure how things are now on all servers). Making several desired boutique items reasonably accessible ingame would release a lot of pressure from gold. It's PWE's choice not to do anything in that direction.

Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver · March 2014

=trands;21403791]I don't get how you can say that tbh. The ones deciding can regulate gold prices. You even said so yourself :

PWI didn't pumped up gold price. Players did. Thats why I sad PWI is not responsible for it. Don't think they even care whats the gold price in game. They care how much people spend by cashing into game. But with all respect, PWI is not twisting our arms to buy gold for this ridiculous price and they don't force you to buy stuff from boutique. Its our choice, like it or not.

I kinda agree with scruncy, but I also think PW pissing of players is a major factor. This can be seen very well with Morai having so much higher prices then other servers (though I'm not sure how things are now on all servers). Making several desired boutique items reasonably accessible in game would release a lot of pressure from gold. It's PWE's choice not to do anything in that direction.

I don't think people stop cashing like you do, I think that demand for gold is higher and people have more in game money to pay high price.
I already sad that making boutique items available, by paying in game coins, would release pressure on gold price, but I also sad that that way would make pwi lose money and sorry but no one in right mind want to do that. If you know any successful entrepreneur who will say "Its ok, I will give a way large chunk of my profit to make people around me happy" you are delusional, cause that kind of businessman wont last for long. Pwi sux ikr, but irl sux to.

If you don't like gold price just stop buying it. In reality you don't need it. You can get nice G16 gear, no one force you to have r9. You can have very nice shards from weekly, no one force you to buy overpriced dot and dods, and I can go on and on... so even if I dont like this gold price no one is to blame but ourselves for keep buying it and keep pumping it up.

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · March 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

It is so tiring all those conspiracy statements that it is because people controll the price.

I may not be the richest guy on the server, but over the last 1,5-2 years i managed to grow from nothing to 4billion coin + 2 toons worth together another 2-3 billion coins. So i think im not an idiot if its about PWI markets.

Noone controls anything (or at least not much) its market mechanics. If you'd stop crying and believe conspiracies and instead start using your brain and think about what is really happening, you could do your advantage with it. But i guess its better you dont. For me to become rich, someone has to be losing. And nope, i dont need to try and control any price for that.

And you know real life is pretty much the same. You probably believe the illuminati control everything The mind plays weird tricks on you when you are being disadvantaged and it is incapable of understandng the real cause.

Donald Trump speaks the truth, here.

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary · March 2014

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

It is so tiring all those conspiracy statements that it is because people controll the price.

I may not be the richest guy on the server, but over the last 1,5-2 years i managed to grow from nothing to 4billion coin + 2 toons worth together another 2-3 billion coins. So i think im not an idiot if its about PWI markets.

Noone controls anything (or at least not much) its market mechanics. If you'd stop crying and believe conspiracies and instead start using your brain and think about what is really happening, you could do your advantage with it. But i guess its better you dont. For me to become rich, someone has to be losing. And nope, i dont need to try and control any price for that.

And you know real life is pretty much the same. You probably believe the illuminati control everything The mind plays weird tricks on you when you are being disadvantaged and it is incapable of understandng the real cause.

If every1 did what you do then you wouldn`t even have 20m per month, each person is different, we cant all be almighty merchants, and it`s due to these high assed merchants, the common folks suffer, greed, greed, greed!

Toliman - Raging Tide · March 2014

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »

Donald Trump speaks the truth, here.

Yea, if someone bought R9, then AH (gold trading) is empty for dozens of players for week.

I.e.:
If someone rich, then many other are poor, because he is rich in comparison with them.

scruncy · March 2014

Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver wrote: »

PWI didn't pumped up gold price. Players did. Thats why I sad PWI is not responsible for it. Don't think they even care whats the gold price in game. They care how much people spend by cashing into game. But with all respect, PWI is not twisting our arms to buy gold for this ridiculous price and they don't force you to buy stuff from boutique. Its our choice, like it or not.

Sorry , you are very wrong here.
PWI does not care at all if there is a healty balance between cs'ers and non cs'ers and this is their fault and not the players.
They destroyed that with the nation wars update and they dont give a rat's *** of gold goes for 5 or 10m.

To be compatitive u need gold and boutique items. Sorry to tell you ,but with *nice* g16 gear and *nice* weekly shards in it your not compatitive at all unless u only doing pve.

If Pwi would care about this game they should care about a healty economy and not add overpowered **** in each expansion which can only be obtained via boutique.

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · March 2014

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »

If every1 did what you do then you wouldn`t even have 20m per month, each person is different, we cant all be almighty merchants, and it`s due to these high assed merchants, the common folks suffer, greed, greed, greed!

You do understand that you just agreed with WannaBM, only with a slightly different angle?

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · March 2014

scruncy wrote: »

Sorry , you are very wrong here.
PWI does not care at all if there is a healty balance between cs'ers and non cs'ers and this is their fault and not the players.
They destroyed that with the nation wars update and they dont give a rat's *** of gold goes for 5 or 10m.

To be compatitive u need gold and boutique items. Sorry to tell you ,but with *nice* g16 gear and *nice* weekly shards in it your not compatitive at all unless u only doing pve.

If Pwi would care about this game they should care about a healty economy and not add overpowered **** in each expansion which can only be obtained via boutique.

That's not even close to correct.

Nirvana g16 (or T3) was created because r9 was getting a 2nd and 3rd cast version, as well as other end-game gear such as the Ascension and Nation War gears. PWE and Wanmei created farmable gear to compete with R9.

On that note;

T3 > R9
T3 = R9r
T3 < R9rr

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary · March 2014

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »

You do understand that you just agreed with WannaBM, only with a slightly different angle?

Yes, I was a merchant also till I got sick of it, constantly checking prices other people have and so on, cut-throat-business, not worth the stress, and PWI has a lot of it even w/o trying to make money, there were many niches in which to merch, but now as the economy is as fked up, I have no idea, except some pack garbage as I see most shops do.

RankNine - Momaganon · March 2014

sorry if this sounds slightly arrogant, but disagreeing with scruncy in thise case, means you should either re-think your market-understanding our just avoid this topic entirely. he is right in every point and explained very well how this can be explained.

and CONGRATZ MORAI SERVER! you officially reached the new gold-maximum price of 3.999.900.
yep thats the maximum sell price for gold. gonna take some funny screenshots the next days

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · March 2014

RankNine - Momaganon wrote: »

sorry if this sounds slightly arrogant, but disagreeing with scruncy in thise case, means you should either re-think your market-understanding our just avoid this topic entirely. he is right in every point and explained very well how this can be explained.

and CONGRATZ MORAI SERVER! you officially reached the new gold-maximum price of 3.999.900.
yep thats the maximum sell price for gold. gonna take some funny screenshots the next days

I think that makes them the first server to hit the mark.

trands · March 2014

Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver wrote: »

PWI didn't pumped up gold price. Players did. Thats why I sad PWI is not responsible for it. Don't think they even care whats the gold price in game. They care how much people spend by cashing into game. But with all respect, PWI is not twisting our arms to buy gold for this ridiculous price and they don't force you to buy stuff from boutique. Its our choice, like it or not.

I don't think people stop cashing like you do, I think that demand for gold is higher and people have more in game money to pay high price.
I already sad that making boutique items available, by paying in game coins, would release pressure on gold price, but I also sad that that way would make pwi lose money and sorry but no one in right mind want to do that. If you know any successful entrepreneur who will say "Its ok, I will give a way large chunk of my profit to make people around me happy" you are delusional, cause that kind of businessman wont last for long. Pwi sux ikr, but irl sux to.

If you don't like gold price just stop buying it. In reality you don't need it. You can get nice G16 gear, no one force you to have r9. You can have very nice shards from weekly, no one force you to buy overpriced dot and dods, and I can go on and on... so even if I dont like this gold price no one is to blame but ourselves for keep buying it and keep pumping it up.

I'm sorry, but you don't seem to really understand what you're talking about. Giving up a chunk of their profit per item in order to sell more items makes perfect sense in the case of virtual items with 0 variable costs in a free to play game context where keeping customers hooked is important. Longevity of a company is, in most cases, an even bigger concern then purely profit.

The current state of server economy is the result of their strategy. I agree the current strategy has it's benefits for them, but that doesn't mean there is no viable alternative. A strategy is related to a goal. From their actions, we can guess what their objectives are and disagree with their priorities and wish they would change them. That has nothing to do with being delusional. If you were to be correct that they have no idea or interest in the servers economies, that would be more then shocking.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · March 2014

Something else to think about....

Wanmei has put coin sinks into the game that should assist in stabilizing the economy. The problem is that most of them are entirely optional and easy to work around. Surplus of coin means coin is worth less and gold does up.

Still greed plays a large factor and I stand by the statement I made earlier.

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · March 2014

RankNine - Momaganon wrote: »

sorry if this sounds slightly arrogant, but disagreeing with scruncy in thise case, means you should either re-think your market-understanding our just avoid this topic entirely. he is right in every point and explained very well how this can be explained.

and CONGRATZ MORAI SERVER! you officially reached the new gold-maximum price of 3.999.900.
yep thats the maximum sell price for gold. gonna take some funny screenshots the next days

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think that makes them the first server to hit the mark.

There's an actual limit? b:laugh I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad... I'll think on that lol

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Something else to think about....

Wanmei has put coin sinks into the game that should assist in stabilizing the economy. The problem is that most of them are entirely optional and easy to work around. Surplus of coin means coin is worth less and gold does up.

Still greed plays a large factor and I stand by the statement I made earlier.

Greed does run rampant among the gold and catshop players, it's obvious (if one looks for it). Let's say something goes on sale for OVER 50%, does that mean all the shops who take advantage of the deal drop their sell prices by the same amount? Nope. They continue to sell at the Maximum off-sale value.

Er, no. I mean if the person CS'd the items while they were on sale, the same person would still attempt to sell them back at the Maximum off-sale value. (As opposed to selling the item based on what the shopper originally bought the items for)

Verenor - Morai · March 2014

scruncy wrote: »

-snipped complaints about not having a gold price-cap-

RankNine - Momaganon wrote: »

and CONGRATZ MORAI SERVER! you officially reached the new gold-maximum price of 3.999.900.
yep thats the maximum sell price for gold. gonna take some funny screenshots the next days

10char limit etc

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · March 2014

Actually Nation Wars introduced a coin sink that didn't exist before. Craft supply tokens in to uncanny or rapture crystals, and you pay a coin fee; that coin is removed from the economy. Buy said crystals from other players, and there is no fee, all the coin remains in the economy.

The biggest factor in driving gold prices up is not Nation Wars (which removes coin from the economy; you don't get any coins for participating, and anything that you craft from the supply tokens you do receive costs coins), it's auto-cultivation (which adds coins to the economy.) More coins in the economy = more demand for gold = higher gold prices.

What PWI needs is more attractive coin sinks... an NPC that say, sells Perfect Tokens of Luck for 20k. Or change the tiger badge quest so the rewards are perceived to be worth the cost.

Gold trading ruining already bad economy

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