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Elimination

Sinclere - SanctuarySinclere - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
edited April 2014 in Assassin
Basically, I'd like to hear from end-game geared sins if elimination is worth the trouble. I've read various threads but most seemed to be before the majority of servers had phases unlocked/time to get skills etc.

Currently I'm r9r3 +12 with lifehunter, which hits like a truck and I consider it to be worth the money spent. Is elimination worth the same or more? Damage wise/useability and whatnot. Essentially on my server I've worldchatted for days looking for it (at ridiculously high prices to no avail) and solo farming aba has turned up no leads either. To measure it's worth, use a price range of 150m and upwards. Thanks in advance for the advice :)

To those whom it might matter, specifically speaking, demon elimination. Although I'd like to hear about the skill in general from those that have it with 18k+ base phys :)
Post edited by Sinclere - Sanctuary on
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  • therevtherev Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    i would like you to test that on me when you get it #spambh4lyfe

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  • Aeliah - DreamweaverAeliah - Dreamweaver Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Elimination makes Life Hunter look like childs play. Easily hardest hitting total damage skill sin's have by a long shot, scales incredibly with double or triple spark. Life Hunter is good, yes, but Elimination is even better. Life Hunter has spammability, but when Elimination is off of cd, you use it first instead of Life Hunter.
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  • Sinclere - SanctuarySinclere - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Elimination makes Life Hunter look like childs play. Easily hardest hitting total damage skill sin's have by a long shot, scales incredibly with double or triple spark. Life Hunter is good, yes, but Elimination is even better. Life Hunter has spammability, but when Elimination is off of cd, you use it first instead of Life Hunter.
    Haha you just made me want it badly. Unfortunately peach has been horrible and I've world chatted for three days at 150-200m and no one has so much as offered one, besides trolls of course :p I suppose I'll focus on farming and hope that 0.6% chance happens.
  • Asterelle - SanctuaryAsterelle - Sanctuary Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    On any other class this skill would be a 3 spark ultimate with a 3 minute cooldown. On sin it gives you 30 chi and can be spammed every 15s. The devs are idiots.
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  • skaitaviaskaitavia Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Looks like I have a lot of catchup to do when I get back! I have all level 11 skills of the sin's, thankfully before Lord of Cap was implemented on our version.
  • Magnanimous_ - Heavens TearMagnanimous_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    If you triple-spark and use any other normal skill, the damage is increase by +500% weapon value.

    Now, you triple-spark and use elimination, the damage is increase by 500%*3.2 = 1600% weapon value, on that single skill.

    This is because, the skill damage is given by 320% of base physical damage. So, anything that adds to base physical damage (including spark damage), is multiplied by 3.2 times. On other skills, the bonus only "adds once" rather than get multiplied.

    There are other skills that can get the same effect of multiplying base physical damage, but they all have 1min+ cooldowns, and cost one or more sparks. For example, barb's berserker wrath have 120% base physical damage on top of dealing 3x to air targets, so that an air-wrath deals up 360% base physical damage. A combo of triple-spark + air-wraths can pretty much out-damage arma, even on vit barb. But any barb would know that there are much better practical use of those sparks. Those skills are not always practical. Wrath have high spark cost (2 sparks), long cooldown(1min), situational (only affects air targets), barb don't even have the range to preemptively remove a double layer of defense charms, or do follow up damage if it fails.

    Now, consider that pwi has added a similar skill, with only 15sec cooldown, no chi cost, on a class that bleeds sparks outta their butt... Every sin who has learned elimination is going to run around using the 3spark+elimination combo and butt **** people.

    And the bleed damage hasn't been covered yet. As much I think that DOT's are generally useless, even the bleed ticks from elimination can reach the same the bleed damage from new primal sunder (which is a non-spammable skill that cost 2 sparks).
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  • Sinclere - SanctuarySinclere - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    This....I want this
  • Walpurga - DreamweaverWalpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Remember when DPH sins required at least some skill to use?
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  • Toraah - ArchosaurToraah - Archosaur Posts: 296 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I have this skill and I can tell you from experience that the damage it deals is insanity.
    This is mainly because it takes your basic physical attack and multiplies it by 3.2, so when you break 20k+ phy attack, the damage output is crazy. This also means if you spark and use it, the increase in damage is unbelievable. Truly a skill that's worth getting, even if it costs 100m+ to get puncture wound.
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  • Sinclere - SanctuarySinclere - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Got it, love it. LOVE IT. Definitely worth the money
  • Cytte - HarshlandsCytte - Harshlands Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I wish the sins on HL weren't incompetent, I've been trying to sell what is quite possible the only Puncture Wound for sale on the entire server
    Astrelle put it best
    On any other class this skill would be a 3 spark ultimate with a 3 minute cooldown. On sin it gives you 30 chi and can be spammed every 15s. The devs are idiots.

    So why aren't buying this skill D:
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  • Msdoomdesire - SanctuaryMsdoomdesire - Sanctuary Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    On any other class this skill would be a 3 spark ultimate with a 3 minute cooldown. On sin it gives you 30 chi and can be spammed every 15s. The devs are idiots.

    So trueee! As a veno I use up a lot of chi using skills that don't even compare to this one. This is like if venos gained 30 chi for using nova lol.

    So it is definitly worth it and against a caster at equal gear with a charm it's a charm tick+ or 1 shot all by itself. If u can afford it then get it :3
  • ovenusarmanioovenusarmanio Posts: 6,695 Community Moderator
    edited March 2014
    I wish the sins on HL weren't incompetent, I've been trying to sell what is quite possible the only Puncture Wound for sale on the entire server
    Astrelle put it best


    So why aren't buying this skill D:

    If people aren't buying a highly desired and hard to get skill, when you're quite possibly the only person it's available from, they may just be hedging their bets that whoever comes after you will have a lower price. You can't be the only forever.

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  • Kastus - Raging TideKastus - Raging Tide Posts: 558 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    this skill is broken watch the first fight!
    i cant wait to get lifehunter

    i have to do boring UCH
    this is what happens when u go on hiatus and comeback after an expansion ._.
    im fighting a full +12 JOSD sharded archer
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  • Eoria - HarshlandsEoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I wish the sins on HL weren't incompetent, I've been trying to sell what is quite possible the only Puncture Wound for sale on the entire server
    Astrelle put it best


    So why aren't buying this skill D:

    There have been several sage Puncture Wounds around. All the sins that would be willing to spend upwards of 300m for it have probably already bought it. What's left are those that wouldn't pay more than 50-100m for it.

    I haven't seen a single sage Twin Strike though.
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  • Cytte - HarshlandsCytte - Harshlands Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    If people aren't buying a highly desired and hard to get skill, when you're quite possibly the only person it's available from, they may just be hedging their bets that whoever comes after you will have a lower price. You can't be the only forever.
    I meant more along the lines that everyones comments about whats it worth are directed at puncture wound rather than Elimination, 3/4 the ones Pming me didn't even know what it did.

    SoT prices went crazy thanks to Emperor & the other one, i was hoping the same would happen for the rare skills D:
    There have been several sage Puncture Wounds around. All the sins that would be willing to spend upwards of 300m for it have probably already bought it. What's left are those that wouldn't pay more than 50-100m for it.

    I haven't seen a single sage Twin Strike though.

    There was one sin left that woulda payed more than 300m but your faction ruined that for me.
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  • Eoria - HarshlandsEoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    There was one sin left that woulda payed more than 300m but your faction ruined that for me.

    Blame Mike, obv.
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  • Toraah - ArchosaurToraah - Archosaur Posts: 296 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    this skill is broken watch the first fight!
    i cant wait to get lifehunter

    i have to do boring UCH
    this is what happens when u go on hiatus and comeback after an expansion ._.
    im fighting a full +12 JOSD sharded archer
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    Because using instant channel apoth with a skill that has a 0.1 channel time isn't a waste of apoth.
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  • Walpurga - DreamweaverWalpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Because using instant channel apoth with a skill that has a 0.1 channel time isn't a waste of apoth.

    Try ztp->toxic torrent->earthen rift->life hunter
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  • PanboyAir - SanctuaryPanboyAir - Sanctuary Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Yes, I can't wait for all the sins to get Elimination and Cursed jail. More APS is great b:chuckle
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  • Toraah - ArchosaurToraah - Archosaur Posts: 296 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Try ztp->toxic torrent->earthen rift->life hunter

    What? Why on earth would I do that? o_O

    Torrent is a terrible skill, rift has a 2 second casting time and life hunter has a 0.1 second channel speed.
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  • Walpurga - DreamweaverWalpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    What? Why on earth would I do that? o_O

    Torrent is a terrible skill, rift has a 2 second casting time and life hunter has a 0.1 second channel speed.

    Go die in a pit please, by which I mean please exit west, find nearest mob, cast torrent + life hunter. Toxic obviously oneshots the level 21 mob, but count how many hits land on that mob

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  • Toraah - ArchosaurToraah - Archosaur Posts: 296 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Go die in a pit please, by which I mean please exit west, find nearest mob, cast torrent + life hunter. Toxic obviously oneshots the level 21 mob, but count how many hits land on that mob

    Yes I know that, but I still fail to see why I'd want to waste apo on ztp for skills that have a rather short to no channel with a long casting time
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  • Aeliah - DreamweaverAeliah - Dreamweaver Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I think Walpurga's point is that you may be able to land 2 or even 3 hits into one single, massive hit that could have incredible charm bypass potential.

    Toxic torrent's dmg is well known to be delayed, similar to plume shot for clerics, or stunning arrow for archers. I refer to these types of skills as 'projectile' skills. For projectile skills, the damage isn't calculated on your target until the middle or end of cast time of the skill. This is different from most skills, where the damage is calculated at the junction between channeling and casting time. This is why with certain skill combinations you can hit one-shot mobs multiple times. For example, try hitting a one shot mob with elven boon (0.5 second channel and 0.5s cast) and then plume shot. You can even use a zooming thunder powder if you want. Try as you might, you will never get a second hit off on the one-shot mob. This is because the damage is calculated right as channel ends, and by the time the 0.5s cast is over, the mob is dead and not available for hitting with anything else. However, if you do plume shot then elven boon, you can get the elven boon off (plume shot > cyclone, or plume shot > tempest even works if your channeling is high enough). This demonstrates that the damage calculation for plume shot is delayed. Similarly, the damage calculation for toxic torrent is done well into the cast time of the skill, such that if the next skill you do has no channel time, its damage will land nearly instantly after the damage from toxic torrent does.

    Therefore, the delayed dmg of toxic torrent + the damage of life hunter may possible combine.

    However, you are both mistaken about life hunter---life hunter has no channel time, it is purely cast time. Neither channeling speed nor attack speed debuffs change how long it takes to fire off a life hunter.

    To be honest, when using a zooming thunder powder, you might want to consider the skills for assassin that normally have the damage calculated right at the end of channel. For Life hunter, no matter what your channeling, there is always a bit of a delay before the first hit, and another delay before the 2nd hit. Individually the hits of Life Hunter (which are spaced a bit too far apart to be likely to combine into one hit) are weaker than most other skills. Therefore toxic torrent > a different skill is likely to have a more potent charm-bypassing effect.

    Toxic torrent > earthen is an obvious candidate; but you might want to examine toxic torrent > throatcut as well. Headhunt's channel is too low and the dmg calculated too far into cast time to make it available for combining with toxic torrent, I think.
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  • Walpurga - DreamweaverWalpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    And of course Aeliah takes 4 paragraphs to explain in the most roundabout way possible.

    tl;dr toxic torrent + next skill damage combines (get to half, sleep, 2spark EP torrent slipstream, or life hunter if you paid 600mil for it, if 2 hits do more than 50% hp together charm doesn't tick), which is the assassin's way to glitch charm. Archers do this all the time with any derp arrow skill + autoattack/instant take aim or ztp blast+strike
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  • HESOKA - Raging TideHESOKA - Raging Tide Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Elimination is only good when last hit crit zerks. Rather than that, it is nothing but a "take a purify proc."

    People here talk about triple sparking and elimination lol.. Really, any class that triple sparks and attacks deal a lot of damage.
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  • Zanryu - LothranisZanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Elimination is only good when last hit crit zerks. Rather than that, it is nothing but a "take a purify proc."

    People here talk about triple sparking and elimination lol.. Really, any class that triple sparks and attacks deal a lot of damage.

    Dunno man.. I watched it drop myself and a far better geared Seeker. Elimination has insane damage when it's unsparked. I don't know which shocks me more, the fact that they actually gave sins a win button, or that they made it require virtually nothing in terms of cost. (Use in combat, not cost of learning.)
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  • HESOKA - Raging TideHESOKA - Raging Tide Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    You people are complaining about Elimination while being totally ignorant about other skills that are farcry OP; such as Plum Shell? Ohh wait, you're a magic DD so you don't really care!

    I'd love to see a new class that pops up a magic-shell for 20 SECONDS eVeRy 10 SECONDS! Maybe then we will see alot of Q_Q'ing xD
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  • Zanryu - LothranisZanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    You people are complaining about Elimination while being totally ignorant about other skill that are farcry OP; such as Plum Shell? Ohh wait, you're a magic DD so you don't really care!

    I'd love to see a new class that pops up a magic-shell for 20 SECONDS eVeRy 10 SECONDS! Maybe then we will see alot of Q_Q'ing xD

    You can't maintain Plumeshell for 0 cost. It lasts 15 seconds and requires MP to keep up, enough damage will break the shell.

    Lifehunter has virtually no CD and Elimination is relatively short. Both offer large amounts of damage.

    Keep complaining about the OG skills though son, thems were better times
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  • HESOKA - Raging TideHESOKA - Raging Tide Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    You can't maintain Plumeshell for 0 cost. It lasts 15 seconds and requires MP to keep up, enough damage will break the shell.

    Lifehunter has virtually no CD and Elimination is relatively short. Both offer large amounts of damage.

    Keep complaining about the OG skills though son, thems were better times


    "enough damage will break the shell."

    My god, let it be known we are not talking about T3 Clerics.
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