Archers forgotten?

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary · March 2014

They aren't trying to fix sins lol. If anything they want them to be tougher.
-Solutions that took little to no thought for me to think up:
Give stealth a time limit with decent cd.(maybe 15sec stealth with 1/2min cd)

-Make the escape stealth cost a spark instead of give a spark.

-Lower tidal timing because now it's an even greater advantage seeing that no other class can stop the new paralyze. It was always the best buff and I doubt a sin would give up tidal protection for the "op" purify. Tidal makes sins part caster and part melee pretty much giving them a somewhat purify and also getting the advantage of having zerk.

-Oki I understand having a higher chance to crit then other classes, but is an almost 100% crit chance necessary? Umm... no, lower it a bit.

Archers... yall have stealth to and it is a free escape.
QQ about 3k critts?... stop, archers have high crit rate, long range, and fast atk speed( pretty much long ranged apps)
Archers sorry about the dissapointing skill, but when it comes to atking most of yall auto shot anyways b:cute. Whenever I fight an archer it's stun first and then auto shot the rest. I can count on my hands how many archers actually use multiple skills b:chuckle
Auto shot speed = fast chi and yall have a skill that restores full sparks so please don't talk about chi >:

I think the most skill based class would definitly have to be a bm and no it's not biased because I play veno. So if a bm wanted to complain I could probably understand their reasons, but archers and sins nada.

Their are some skilled sins/ archers that I know of b:cute But for the most part nada.

Jarkhen - Archosaur · March 2014

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

<rampant idiocy>

ITT: Archers shouldn't complain about getting **** for skills because archers rely on autoattacks, because I'm too incompetent to realize that archers rely on autoattacks because their skills suck

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary · March 2014

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

ITT: Archers shouldn't complain about getting **** for skills because archers rely on autoattacks, because I'm too incompetent to realize that archers rely on autoattacks because their skills suck

If they can deal 3k with crit auto shots of course they won't have skills that can double that already pretty large output. Archers don't make use of skills for dmg because they are already similar to the auto dmg output. News flash; most sins use apps are u implying that sin skills arent strong? If u are ur seriously wrong. Sins choose to apps because it offers up the easiest and fastest way of killing. Archers skills are stronger than auto atk, but auto Atks hit a lot faster with fairly op dmg. Most people make archers for the long ranged apps just like most people make sins for the close ranged apps and the annoying buffs.

Rlly I definitly know it's not the skill effects people make archers for lol. Plainest class anyone could possibly choose for its visual effects is most definitly archer lol.

Jarkhen - Archosaur · March 2014

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

If they can deal 3k with crit auto shots of course they won't have skills that can double that already pretty large output. Archers don't make use of skills for dmg because they are already similar to the auto dmg output. News flash; most sins use apps are u implying that sin skills arent strong? If u are ur seriously wrong. Sins choose to apps because it offers up the easiest and fastest way of killing. Archers skills are stronger than auto atk, but auto Atks hit a lot faster with fairly op dmg. Most people make archers for the long ranged apps just like most people make sins for the close ranged apps and the annoying buffs.

Rlly I definitly know it's not the skill effects people make archers for lol. Plainest class anyone could possibly choose for its visual effects is most definitly archer lol.

> implying 3k crits are high
> thinking aps is actually effective

You are clearly not endgame and clearly not talking about endgame. Come back when you are.b:bye

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary · March 2014

If u like a class then yayy, but dmg skill complaints for a auto shot based class is ridiculous. I could understand if yall want like another jump or something in that category, but dmg skills... no way.

Again... not all archers are like this its more of a stereotype because a lot of them follow it ditto with sins ^^

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

> implying 3k crits are high
> thinking aps is actually effective

You are clearly not endgame and clearly not talking about endgame. Come back when you are.b:bye

Apps from long ranged is.
Umm around 3k per shot when u shoot like 2-3 per sec is pretty much 6-9k per sec. It might not be much against an end game HA class, but most casters excluding clerics(until they get purged) can't take to many of those.

Jarkhen - Archosaur · March 2014

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

If u like a class then yayy, but dmg skill complaints for a auto shot based class is ridiculous. I could understand if yall want like another jump or something in that category, but dmg skills... no way.

Again... not all archers are like this its more of a stereotype because a lot of them follow it ditto with sins ^^

Apps from long ranged is.
Umm around 3k per shot when u shoot like 2-3 per sec is pretty much 6-9k per sec. It might not be much against an end game HA class, but most casters excluding clerics(until they get purged) can't take to many of those.

2-3 per second? Archers get 0.83 aps at endgame, 1.11 sparked and 1.18 aps with quickshot. Where are you getting 2-3 attacks per second?

Again, come back when you actually know what endgame is like and are able to hold a proper discussion.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · March 2014

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

Apps from long ranged is.
Umm around 3k per shot when u shoot like 2-3 per sec is pretty much 6-9k per sec. It might not be much against an end game HA class, but most casters excluding clerics(until they get purged) can't take to many of those.

....

Max aps with r9rr and demon QS is like 1.11 aps iirc.

You probably shouldn't stand around and let an archer unload in your face. If the archer is only hitting you 3k crits, and you have like at at least 15k hp buffed, you could maybe die if you went afk for 10 seconds.

Alternatively you could bewitch purge amp stun proc demon ironwood and one shot.

wtb skills like that.

Socqar - Lost City · March 2014

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

> implying 3k crits are high
> thinking aps is actually effective

You are clearly not endgame and clearly not talking about endgame. Come back when you are.b:bye

+1 to this, like for real, 3k crits against 15k HP casters? plus misses, plus enemies defensive skills... shall I keep going? We can't nearly kill afk casters on endgame U.U (Actually afk + Charm + Auto-pot caster we can't xD)

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

If u like a class then yayy, but dmg skill complaints for a auto shot based class is ridiculous. I could understand if yall want like another jump or something in that category, but dmg skills... no way.

Again... not all archers are like this its more of a stereotype because a lot of them follow it ditto with sins ^^

Apps from long ranged is.
Umm around 3k per shot when u shoot like 2-3 per sec is pretty much 6-9k per sec. It might not be much against an end game HA class, but most casters excluding clerics(until they get purged) can't take to many of those.

Actually we don't really get a ** about dmg output, we're squishy but we can purge, oh well, at least it's a role. The massive QQ comes from having a small dmg output on endgame vs. endgame when we have a huge lack of defensive skills (that don't cost a bazilion of chi), not like for example, other LA's, sins)

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

2-3 per second? Archers get 0.83 aps at endgame, 1.11 sparked and 1.18 aps with quickshot. Where are you getting 2-3 attacks per second?
Again, come back when you actually know what endgame is like and are able to hold a proper discussion.

You can use your +12 Firmament with full Deity +12 APS gear ^^ THen you'll hit like poo because of atk-lvl's but hey, APPPPPPS!

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary · March 2014

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

2-3 per second? Archers get 0.83 aps at endgame, 1.11 sparked and 1.18 aps with quickshot. Where are you getting 2-3 attacks per second?

Again, come back when you actually know what endgame is like and are able to hold a proper discussion.

U know they say? Biased people have no validity b:kiss

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · March 2014

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

U know they say? Biased people have no validity b:kiss

Back in the kitchen and make me sammich pls

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary · March 2014

Umumumum Ok so it is fairly obvious I'm not endgame and i only speak from what i see. From what I have seen archers normally kill casters unless they are full josd. From what I see is archers don't rlly stand much chance against endgame ha classes such as bm/seeker/ and barb.

Observations^^

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Back in the kitchen and make me sammich pls

What kind?

Socqar - Lost City · March 2014

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

Umumumum Ok so it is fairly obvious I'm not endgame and i only speak from what i see. From what I have seen archers normally kill casters unless they are full josd. From what I see is archers don't rlly stand much chance against endgame ha classes such as bm/seeker/barb/sin/wiz/mystic/psy/ep/

Observations^^

Fixed for you ^^

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary · March 2014

Pff purge wizzy and they die. Purge mystic and they are definitly dead. Psychic in black voodoo is no definitly gone. Psychic in white voodoo can't do enough dmg.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · March 2014

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

What kind?

Good answer. Guys can we keep her b:thanks

So in forums when we discuss stuff its always a hypothetical situation like;

i.e. an 'archer vs a caster' means;

a r9rr full +12 archer josd vs r9rr full + 12 josd caster

This is when archers are pretty weak and most of the time get wrecked.

I personally have 45k p-att 155 att lvls and 407 spirit and hit my friends mystic for 1-2k crits when he is buffed, and he can hit me for like 10k with an absorb soul :c

XShadowshotx - Heavens Tear · March 2014

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Good answer. Guys can we keep her b:thanks

So in forums when we discuss stuff its always a hypothetical situation like;

i.e. an 'archer vs a caster' means;

a r9rr full +12 archer josd vs r9rr full + 12 josd caster

This is when archers are pretty weak and most of the time get wrecked.

I personally have 45k p-att 155 att lvls and 407 spirit and hit my friends mystic for 1-2k crits when he is buffed, and he can hit me for like 10k with an absorb soul :c

To be fair absorb soul hits everyone hard, its like the honey badger of attack skills. Doesn't care about your defensive stats, def lvls, anything. Its damage is registered as a DoT which is why it hits full strength regardless of anything. The end game mystic in my group of friends can hit a full JoSD +12 barb for 30k with absorb soul, you should feel better about that 10k. He's also 1 shot full +10 r9s3 Vit Stone barbs for 98k, I could take two of those 10k absorb souls myself. I don't wanna take 30k+ tyvm.

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary · March 2014

Oki that I can understand ^^ full josd caster against full josd archer the archer would probably lose most of the time. I thought yall ment semi end game b:chuckle

XShadowshotx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

To be fair absorb soul hits everyone hard, its like the honey badger of attack skills. Doesn't care about your defensive stats, def lvls, anything. Its damage is registered as a DoT which is why it hits full strength regardless of anything.

It rlly does

it's by far one of the scariest skills after assassins eliminate of course b:chuckle

XShadowshotx - Heavens Tear · March 2014

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oki that I can understand ^^ full josd caster against full josd archer the archer would probably lose most of the time. I thought yall ment semi end game b:chuckle

It rlly does it's by far one of the scariest skills after assassins eliminate of course b:chuckle

Yes, absorb soul also hits full damage from air to ground targets if you're attacking someone from the air your damage is normally halved.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver · March 2014

XShadowshotx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

To be fair absorb soul hits everyone hard, its like the honey badger of attack skills. Doesn't care about your defensive stats, def lvls, anything. Its damage is registered as a DoT which is why it hits full strength regardless of anything. The end game mystic in my group of friends can hit a full JoSD +12 barb for 30k with absorb soul, you should feel better about that 10k. He's also 1 shot full +10 r9s3 Vit Stone barbs for 98k, I could take two of those 10k absorb souls myself. I don't wanna take 30k+ tyvm.

Once people learn how to play mystic game would be over in 20min

West is just gonna be a thousand mystics absoul'ing each other

Good thing 1/200 mystics know how to pk

Burnout - Harshlands · March 2014

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Once people learn how to play mystic game would be over in 20min

West is just gonna be a thousand mystics absoul'ing each other

Good thing 1/200 mystics know how to pk

There's quite a bit of misinformation in this thread. The average absorb soul will do less damage than a crit BIDS w/o undine, which is far from op when you consider what it takes to get one off successfully.

The main exceptions are if the mystic is triple sparked and gets off an absorb, in which case you probably deserve to be chunked.

It's also reduced by physcal defense and defense levels, so it's performance is pretty underwhelming when the opponent sports 2-3+ phy def buffs, especially since mystics can't purge.

The only scenario where AS is "overpowered" is in a self-buffed duel.

ovenusarmanio · March 2014

Mystic's Absorb Soul ignores def levels if let at level 10, but takes them into account at level 11, afaik. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · March 2014

Not to backseat mod or anything... but yea.. 1 simple thing... shouldn't the discussion about mystics be in... well the mystic forums?

I can see why we often veer off topic a lot in ANY thread due to people (myself included) focusing on one point/'flaw' in the thread, and then chaos ensues when people comment on it/argue about that 'point'/opinion.

Either way my apologies for 'backseat' modding.

Just another example of the second paragraph... I do indeed do it too. :$

EDIT: NEVERMIND about it being a necro, i read the last post date wrong or something.. its within the 30 day time limit. :$ My bad. :$

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · March 2014

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Sage psy is really easy to keep up chi on (and no one in their right mind goes demon) so I'm trying to figure out what you're trying to say...

Tell me why a psy wouldn't go demon? Some of the best psy's and highest geared psy's are DEMON! Your argument holds no merit.

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

They aren't trying to fix sins lol. If anything they want them to be tougher.
-Solutions that took little to no thought for me to think up:
Give stealth a time limit with decent cd.(maybe 15sec stealth with 1/2min cd)Then make stealth pots disappear from the game completely.

-Make the escape stealth cost a spark instead of give a spark.Then make us able to use both stealths in battle.

-Lower tidal timing because now it's an even greater advantage seeing that no other class can stop the new paralyze. It was always the best buff and I doubt a sin would give up tidal protection for the "op" purify. Tidal makes sins part caster and part melee pretty much giving them a somewhat purify and also getting the advantage of having zerk.Then give us the same physical attack the other classes get. Seriously have you compared an archers atk to a sins atk? As for tidal being OP. Sins don't have a buff or buff skill that scales with our def, veno's have several. And they are not luck based.

-Oki I understand having a higher chance to crit then other classes, but is an almost 100% crit chance necessary? Umm... no, lower it a bit.Cost 2 sparks, 45 sec cd, when sage quick shot is usable every 3 secs? So archers with 800 dex at about 65-70% crit with sage quickshot usable every 3 secs that can give 20% more crit, on a class that has almost 2x the physical attack of a sin. AND they are ranged.... Are you on crack?

Their are some skilled sins/ archers that I know of b:cute But for the most part nada.

I can same the same for veno's, and any class. Seriously most people suck at this game, not just one class more than the other, except for maybe mystics.

opkossy · March 2014

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Tell me why a psy wouldn't go demon? Some of the best psy's and highest geared psy's are DEMON! Your argument holds no merit.

.... I'm sorry but I had to stop reading at the bold. What? No seriously, what?! I don't think the word best means what you think it means. Especially the more posts and claims you make here.

And going over your counterpoints for sins... No... just... no. The things asked for would be perfectly reasonable. Your demands, on the other hand? Not even close. You've stated many times you don't have any endgame characters... so please stop trying to make assumptions about endgame things when you don't actually know how the endgame plays. It... looks really bad and has caused many people to discredit you entirely.

Socqar - Lost City · March 2014

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Tell me why a psy wouldn't go demon? Some of the best psy's and highest geared psy's are DEMON! Your argument holds no merit.

You should REALLY get to know more Psy's O.o There was a huge debate on this matter on Psy's forum and was quite of an agreement that nearly everyone that Psy's go Sage

OPKossy wrote: »

.... I'm sorry but I had to stop reading at the bold. What? No seriously, what?! I don't think the word best means what you think it means. Especially the more posts and claims you make here.

And going over your counterpoints for sins... No... just... no. The things asked for would be perfectly reasonable. Your demands, on the other hand? Not even close. You've stated many times you don't have any endgame characters... so please stop trying to make assumptions about endgame things when you don't actually know how the endgame plays. It... looks really bad and has caused many people to discredit you entirely.

+1000 to that... I've been in this forums for a LONG while, and hold myself from posting until I reached something "similar" (r9rr +11 wep on full r9rr +8 gear vit sharded) to endgame to avoid looking fool by giving my opinion with a biased and wrong point of view...

And gosh, I was so wrong when I wasn't that highly geared... the point of view DOES change a **** lot...

Imagine if being full endgame on NW orns +12 bla bla bla... Some ppl should read more and write less... U.U

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary · March 2014

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Tell me why a psy wouldn't go demon? Some of the best psy's and highest geared psy's are DEMON! Your argument holds no merit.

I can same the same for veno's, and any class. Seriously most people suck at this game, not just one class more than the other, except for maybe mystics.

Those were pretty reasonable demands

Umm... are stealth pots even available anymore? Also can't sins see anyone using a stealth pot? Putting a time limit on stealth with a fairly short cd sounded fair to me. It is a lot better than having people hide in stealth all day.

Umm... just because u would instead have to use a spark to use a life saving skill(my life saving skills are hood and feral both of which cost a considerable amount of chi) means u should be able to use both in battle?

Umm... I said shorter duration I didn't say remove it. It's the best buff in the game and the duration of it is far to long and the cd far to short for its duration. U mentioned veno protection? They all cost considerable chi( except for blazing which only cost 30chi) and last 15sec at most. Since u mentioned it I'd gladly trade you my spark consuming buffs for your almost Perma non chi costing tidal. b:cute

They were very reasonable suggestions your just completely biased on the side of sins and this causes u to lack any validity. Really none of those suggestions would have been game breaking.

opkossy · March 2014

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

Those were pretty reasonable demands

Umm... are stealth pots even available anymore?

If I'm not mistaken, nope. But enough people still have leftovers from when they were easily available.

Also can't sins see anyone using a stealth pot?

Nope. Assassins are the only class that can't use them... but assassins also get a passive +30 detection level so they can see anyone in stealth that's a lower level than they are at all times instead of for a limited duration like other classes with detect pots. The only issue is they can't see someone an equal level than them in stealth unless it's an assassin that used shadow walk instead of shadow escape.

Just clearing some errors you had. Meant to do that to your other post as well but RL happened and I forgot and now I can't be bothered to go back to it and clear up the parts you were wrong about. b:laugh

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary · March 2014

OPKossy wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken, nope. But enough people still have leftovers from when they were easily available.

Nope. Assassins are the only class that can't use them... but assassins also get a passive +30 detection level so they can see anyone in stealth that's a lower level than they are at all times instead of for a limited duration like other classes with detect pots. The only issue is they can't see someone an equal level than them in stealth unless it's an assassin that used shadow walk instead of shadow escape.

Just clearing some errors you had. Meant to do that to your other post as well but RL happened and I forgot and now I can't be bothered to go back to it and clear up the parts you were wrong about. b:laugh

Ty lol. I rlly don't know anyone that uses stealth pots anymore.

Socqar - Lost City · March 2014

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

Those were pretty reasonable demands
Umm... are stealth pots even available anymore? Also can't sins see anyone using a stealth pot? Putting a time limit on stealth with a fairly short cd sounded fair to me. It is a lot better than having people hide in stealth all day.
Umm... just because u would instead have to use a spark to use a life saving skill(my life saving skills are hood and feral both of which cost a considerable amount of chi) means u should be able to use both in battle?
Umm... I said shorter duration I didn't say remove it. It's the best buff in the game and the duration of it is far to long and the cd far to short for its duration. U mentioned veno protection? They all cost considerable chi( except for blazing which only cost 30chi) and last 15sec at most. Since u mentioned it I'd gladly trade you my spark consuming buffs for your almost Perma non chi costing tidal. b:cute
They were very rasonable suggestions your just completely biased on the side of sins and this causes u to lack any validity. Really none of those suggestions would have been game breaking.

Funny, we slowly lured you from ea-hater to ea-helper in this post :P
Makes me feel just riiiiight

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ty lol. I rlly don't know anyone that uses stealth pots anymore.

I have like 50 stacked on me yet ^^

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary · March 2014

Lol that did happen

opkossy · March 2014

Four and a half years later, this is still relevant and accurate! b:laugh

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

DISCLAIMER: This is not from personal experience... Really... Would I lie?

Level 1-9: What the heck, I deal half damage close up? That makes no sense. And why can't I shoot these mobs from the air? What does "kite" mean?

Level 10-19: If I add 15 points into Magic, I don't have to worry about my wings sucking up MP. Nice.

Level 20-29: The Trial Crossbow is awesome! I AM ARCHER; HEAR ME ROAR!

Level 30-39: Oh my freaking god, being an archer is so expensive. Stupid arrows cost so much...

Level 40-49: So I was wondering if I should go Sage or Demon. I think I'm going to choose X because the skills of Y are bad for blah blah blah and I know what I am talking about because I'm level 45. Also, where do I grind?

Level 50-54: WANT TO BUY PERFECT HAMMER FOR 500K!!

Level 55-59: Nice, 4 Crits in a row. ... For crying out loud, can't you keep aggro?! I was only using normal attacks...

Level 60-64: I love this crossbow; it glows such a pretty green. Also, I've found the ultimate archer combo against mobs: Deadly Shot -> Frost Arrow -> Quickshot -> Stunning Arrow -> Knockback -> Aim Low. After that, I've dealt so much damage that I can just finish with normal attacks.

Level 64-69: I'm wondering which weapon I should use in my 70s. Comparing Wind and the Clouds and Unicorn, I see:

W&C: Faster. Higher DPS.
Unicorn: Not a slingshot.

I think I'll go with Unicorn.

Level 70-74: Wait, I have to sub to get the items I want in TT runs, but you Tanks and Healers get them by default? How am I going to make my TT70 and TT80 armor?

Level 75-79: SHOULD I GET CRIMSON HORN: SOULSMASHER, OR SHOULD I GET SOMETHING ELSE, BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE HAS SOULSMASHER, AND IT LOOKS REALLY COOL, AND I WANT TO BE COOL, BUT IT COSTS SO MUCH MONEY AND I ALREADY SPENT SO MUCH GETTING MY UNICORN TO +6 WITH IMMACULATE SHARDS AND WHERE DO I GET GOLDEN SPIRITS FROM ANYWAYS BUT YEAH I REALLY REALLY WANT SOULSMASHER BUT I JUST CAN'T DECIDE!!!!

Level 80-84: Where is fashion? I need fashion. Purple-glowing golden peac.ock for the lose. And why does nobody zhen anymore?

Level 85-89: So I was wondering if I should go Sage or Demon. I think I'm going to choose X because the skills of Y are bad for blah blah blah and I know what I am talking about because I'm level 85. Also, where do I grind?

Level 90-94: Out with the golden peac.ock. In with the starfish domme outfit with a scuba diving fetish. By the way, which weapon should I get for endgame? I can't decide between the rank bow and warsoul. Is warsoul worth it? Interest rates are low, so I think I can ask my parents to take a second mortgage out on our house.

Level 95-99: Archers suck at endgame! I need +8 in all my equips so I can last long enough to run away! Wah!!!

Archers forgotten?

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