Seekers and nerfing them :-)

datalore · March 2014

Ok many class's could be classed as OP but for the most part there not that bad...
But and i admit know nothin of seekers skills but seekers can debuff you and do a skill that
can hit*one shoot) even r9rr+12 jades people.
For example a seeker not that OP gear or cards hit me for 25k and i have r9rr+12 70 defence lvls toon and the skill that hits u 5 times was like 5k+ each hit.
Now there not alot anyone can do to counter this sort of dmg why should a class have
so many debuffs have zerk weapons/zerk magic attacks and such high phy dmg.
I think most i was hit was for 54k and that is so wrong when your r9rr+12 and EVEN when they hit you for 20k and your alive still you hit them back and they take like 3k dmg its a matter of WTF

Sparafucile - Harshlands · March 2014

I remember when it was sins we were complaining about... b:laugh

pwi hasn't been balanced for a long time; I suspect the rotating class imbalance issues may owe more to increasing revenue than poor planning...

Liveena - Heavens Tear · March 2014

Hmm, let see, I have an R9S3/R9RRR +10 seeker, and still got hit with 20k-50k damage from R9S3 wizzy/psy/cleric/mystic. So, we nerf all of them as well? b:chuckle

Seeker have advantage of choosing physical or magic attack and applying debuff such as sac slash + qpq to give even more damage. But that's depends on skill and not mostly related with gear (gear does help sometime such as zerk).

I say know your opponent weakness and hit them at their weakest point. Seeker still HA user and got low magic def, and if the seeker still have adrenal numbness on them, purge it if your a veno or r9 archer. If you're BM, stun locked it, and R9 sin can easily kill a seeker with the right skill combo. b:bye

Maybe other people have other opinions. b:victory

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · March 2014

The issue people have with seekers goes something like this.

Yeaaah... everybody can kill each other in some fashion.

Archers will pew pew many arrows into your hide till you you are bag of crit mush.
Arcanes will fire spells and do great damage in several hits till you are dead.
Sins will go swish swish many times with daggers and kill you.

Etc.

But seekers are the only class who get the really random 1-shots that they don't really have to plan for. It goes something like this.

Doot-dee-doo-dee-dooo (fighting in group pvp, you are fully buffed and at full hp), doot-dee-doo-dee-doo- DEAD.

Like, wtf?

'insert_seeker_name' deals 24k dmg.

Just like that.
Come on now. You've all experienced it.

Now, in reality, I still get killed more by archers. But at least with archers, I get a chance to react to their damage and kite away. Do something, you know.

With wizards, they still have to undine strike me first before trying for a bypass---and on my toon, and with new passive defenses, I have to be somewhere near half hp too.

Barbs can arma, but they have to come right up beside me---I can't miss seeing them.

But the seeker can hit you from really far away, without necessarily applying any debuffs to you. Just---boom. And you die---if you get that unlucky zerk crit, which seems to happen absurdly often nowadays... oh thats right, the new crit passives.

So yeah, thats about the gist of the Complaint Against the Seeker. Compounding the issue is that sacrificial slash and qpq got beefed up, so its harder than ever to react to a debuff from a seeker before their attack lands on you.

Zanryu - Lothranis · March 2014

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The issue people have with seekers goes something like this.

Yeaaah... everybody can kill each other in some fashion.

Archers will pew pew many arrows into your hide till you you are bag of crit mush.
Arcanes will fire spells and do great damage in several hits till you are dead.
Sins will go swish swish many times with daggers and kill you.

Etc.

But seekers are the only class who get the really random 1-shots that they don't really have to plan for. It goes something like this.

Doot-dee-doo-dee-dooo (fighting in group pvp, you are fully buffed and at full hp), doot-dee-doo-dee-doo- DEAD.

Like, wtf?

'insert_seeker_name' deals 24k dmg.

Just like that.
Come on now. You've all experienced it.

Now, in reality, I still get killed more by archers. But at least with archers, I get a chance to react to their damage and kite away. Do something, you know.

With wizards, they still have to undine strike me first before trying for a bypass---and on my toon, and with new passive defenses, I have to be somewhere near half hp too.

Barbs can arma, but they have to come right up beside me---I can't miss seeing them.

But the seeker can hit you from really far away, without necessarily applying any debuffs to you. Just---boom. And you die---if you get that unlucky zerk crit, which seems to happen absurdly often nowadays... oh thats right, the new crit passives.

So yeah, thats about the gist of the Complaint Against the Seeker. Compounding the issue is that sacrificial slash and qpq got beefed up, so its harder than ever to react to a debuff from a seeker before their attack lands on you.

Seekers don't one shot you without debuffs. That QPQ combo is the very thing that gives them their massive damage. Show a video of a Seeker one shotting someone in equal gear without setting up, 'cause real talk I'm not saying Seekers have some pretty bs combos, but you be crazy if you think they're just randomly one shotting son.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · March 2014

Hmm. I think this is reacting to the odd times you get one shot and conveniently ignoring all the times you don't.

Aeliah's example of taking 25k for example.

Unless you were purged and amped you wouldnt take that kinda damage with your gear without the seeker combo.

I'm gonna assume this was Kalopsia that hit you for that amount. (Best skilled/geared seeker on Dreamweaver, for those not on Dw - damage ranking of like 7.3m this week)

On saturday after our short Tw vs you guys we had a pk event. Ended up with me vs kalo and lasted well over 10mins with multiple qpq combos however he was unable to get the zc/I resisted, and I couldnt dps through his charm (loaded up every debuff I have immediately after his qpq) and ended in a draw.

In another group fight same event I got charm bypassed by his combo.

So there is luck its not guaranteed by any definition and can only occur every 30secs. Enough to even winged shell and HoS when/if you see it coming. So I dont see it as broken as is being claimed.

Zheii - Archosaur · March 2014

Urgh, do we have to go through one of these silly "Seekers are so OP QQ" threads again? I thought we where over those x.x.

Listen, here is the trick, seekers randomly one shoting someone has to be a set up, and it also has to be luck it's EXTREMELY unreliable. There is no way I'm going to get a crit or even a zerk every time I set up a combo and even lesser of a chance I'm going to zerk crit.

Honestly,every class has some OP combo that can one shot someone with the right conditions and de-buffs, be it Fire Combo by Wizzys, Arma from Barbs, hf combo from bm's etc, you get the point.

It's about conditions and how well you set things up, or they're set up for you, and luck.
I could fight someone for 20+ minutes without being able to land that lucky "killer combo hit". QQing about something like this is pointless.

@Aeliah, they didn't really "beef up" the combo at all, they reduced the channel time, it does no extra damage, and it's also a **** tone uglier :C.

Zanryu - Lothranis · March 2014

Zheii - Archosaur wrote: »

Urgh, do we have to go through one of these silly "Seekers are so OP QQ" threads again? I thought we where over those x.x.

Listen, here is the trick, seekers randomly one shoting someone has to be a set up, and it also has to be luck it's EXTREMELY unreliable. There is no way I'm going to get a crit or even a zerk every time I set up a combo and even lesser of a chance I'm going to zerk crit.

Honestly,every class has some OP combo that can one shot someone with the right conditions and de-buffs, be it Fire Combo by Wizzys, Arma from Barbs, hf combo from bm's etc, you get the point.

It's about conditions and how well you set things up, or they're set up for you, and luck.
I could fight someone for 20+ minutes without being able to land that lucky "killer combo hit". QQing about something like this is pointless.

@Aeliah, they didn't really "beef up" the combo at all, they reduced the channel time, it does no extra damage, and it's also a **** tone uglier :C.

..Must

..Keep

...THOUGHTS

TO SELF.

Also, BM's get the short end of the stick when it comes to kill combos seeing as we have to expend more chi than anyone else and have the easiest ones to get out of. Although I will admit, GS>Blade Tornado is hilarious on anything that'll sit and take it.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · March 2014

Zheii - Archosaur wrote: »

Urgh, do we have to go through one of these silly "Seekers are so OP QQ" threads again? I thought we where over those x.x.

Listen, here is the trick, seekers randomly one shoting someone has to be a set up, and it also has to be luck it's EXTREMELY unreliable. There is no way I'm going to get a crit or even a zerk every time I set up a combo and even lesser of a chance I'm going to zerk crit.

Honestly,every class has some OP combo that can one shot someone with the right conditions and de-buffs, be it Fire Combo by Wizzys, Arma from Barbs, hf combo from bm's etc, you get the point.

It's about conditions and how well you set things up, or they're set up for you, and luck.
I could fight someone for 20+ minutes without being able to land that lucky "killer combo hit". QQing about something like this is pointless.

@Aeliah, they didn't really "beef up" the combo at all, they reduced the channel time, it does no extra damage, and it's also a **** tone uglier :C.

Seekers can hit me for more than +12 casters without trying, explain.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · March 2014

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Seekers can hit me for more than +12 casters without trying, explain.

GoF magic.

DATALEC - Dreamweaver · March 2014

Not only the person dark said hits hard....while yes i expect someone with all s cards and lvl'd very hi to hit harder than most but most seekers with a _+12wep seem to be able to hit my psy for 25k+ some 56k sunday.

Im not bothered about getting killed but since you dont even have a chance to react to a one shot thats the op part....like osmeone said most other classes you have a chance to react or see them coming seekers its BOOM dead.

As for them being HA that doesnt matter only thing that does is give them huge amount of HP they will still have more than enough mag defence kali for eg has 18k magic defence 35k phy defence(unbuffed) .

So seeker get the large HP pool-able to zerk crit magic attack-debuff-transfer debuffs and raise there defence lvls.

That is why i think some of there skills should be reduced who wants to get end game gear and then get face-palmed by 1shot/debuf then pawned...Clerics SOG was bad but that at least wasnt a 1 shot deal.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · March 2014

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

GoF magic.

Exactly why they need a nerf. The GoF mag skills at least

.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · March 2014

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

GoF magic.

which procs like once every 10-20 hits unlike archers' perma crit

tbh ill take a perma crit on my seeker and dish away that GoF magic if trading is possible

QPQ combo isnt as great as getting a crit 9/10 times lol

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · March 2014

Its how seekers have always operated. It isn't necessarily OP in the grand sense of things. Its just... very disturbing and unsettling.

When an archer purges you then hits you 5 times and you die, it makes sense... its a death you can accept.

When a bm hfs you, then unleashes several attacks and you die, well, ok I can accept that is a situation where it was my time to die.

Even when a wizard unloads a bunch of debuffs onto you and manages to bypass your charm, well, that is somewhat understandable to, if the wizard got you near to half hp and got the crit.

The disturbing part about seekers is that, if the right attack zerk crits, they don't really need many debuffs... if they DO debuff you, they often don't need the zerk crit to bypass you (a crit or zerk alone will do) while any attack that zerk crits will one shot you---this goes for most people. In my upcoming TW video, I got a 23k hit from a seeker when everybody around the seeker was doing 1-4ks on me. Yeah, just like that.

Seekers OP?.... debatable. But even if we accept that they aren't OP, it won't stop people from hating their stupidly high, totally random damage spikes.

Asterelle - Sanctuary · March 2014

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

Seekers don't one shot you without debuffs. That QPQ combo is the very thing that gives them their massive damage. Show a video of a Seeker one shotting someone in equal gear without setting up, 'cause real talk I'm not saying Seekers have some pretty bs combos, but you be crazy if you think they're just randomly one shotting son.

There's not really any setup involved in the QPQ combo. Blade affinity is 30s cooldown, Sac slash is a 30s cooldown, and QPQ is a 30s cooldown. None of that takes any chi at all so there is no cost involved in spamming the combo until it zerk crits and you win. It's pretty stupid how random it is.

Zanryu - Lothranis · March 2014

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

There's not really any setup involved in the QPQ combo. Blade affinity is 30s cooldown, Sac slash is a 30s cooldown, and QPQ is a 30s cooldown. None of that takes any chi at all so there is no cost involved in spamming the combo until it zerk crits and you win. It's pretty stupid how random it is.

That still requires them to actually perform a combination of skills. They aren't pressing one button. Not saying I like how much damage they can do for so little effort, I've argued against it my fair share of times. Low risk and high reward is a horrible gameplay style and the fact that PWI has it is ****. Buuuut, they aren't just pressing one button to win. By my count it's at least 3. b:chuckle

Asterelle - Sanctuary · March 2014

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

That still requires them to actually perform a combination of skills. They aren't pressing one button. Not saying I like how much damage they can do for so little effort, I've argued against it my fair share of times. Low risk and high reward is a horrible gameplay style and the fact that PWI has it is ****. Buuuut, they aren't just pressing one button to win. By my count it's at least 3. b:chuckle

How do you know they aren't pressing one button? If it won't work with an ingame macro you can use a gaming keyboard do it with one button.

Zanryu - Lothranis · March 2014

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

How do you know they aren't pressing one button? If it won't work with an ingame macro you can use a gaming keyboard do it with one button.

How do you know they are?

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · March 2014

Well, if you're trying to charm bypass a really tanky target, there is a bit of setup;

Surmising here I don't play a seeker;

Get target to right above charm tick
apply pre debuffs like def lvl reductions
Swap to omalleys
swap to r8r def lvls wep
sacrificial slash
fortify - if using metal skill
QPQ
swap to jones & r9rr
EP
tangling mire - if using physical skill
Blade Affinity (reduced chan on sac slash/QPQ means you could probably keep this for here)
Gemini/Ion spike - cross fingers for a zerk/crit/both

Spamming it every 30 sec without all the above works too, depends on the target.

There's another seeker in my faction that is very good at setting all that up, and we've finally convinced her to start recording..

Asterelle - Sanctuary · March 2014

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

How do you know they are?

The fact that a series of actions can be replaced by a single button should suggest to you that there is no actual decision making involved and that the series is just a single action.  Even if the seeker is too lazy to setup a 1-button macro, I don't see anything more skillful about hitting "123" instead of "1". Actual mastery of the game comes from making decisions depending on knowledge of the state of the game. Being able to type the keys "123" in succession is just a mechanical skill and has nothing to do with being skillful at the game.

Zanryu - Lothranis · March 2014

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The fact that a series of actions can be replaced by a single button should suggest to you that there is no actual decision making involved and that the series is just a single action. Even if the seeker is too lazy to setup a 1-button macro, I don't see anything more skillful about hitting "123" instead of "1". Actual mastery of the game comes from making decisions depending on knowledge of the state of the game. Being able to type the keys "123" in succession is just a mechanical skill and has nothing to do with being skillful at the game.

I don't know man.. It's a little hard to know when to press 1,2, and 3. Or if you should only use 2 and 3. Or if you just skip 2 entirely and use 1 and 3. Seems pretty complex.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · March 2014

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well, if you're trying to charm bypass a really tanky target, there is a bit of setup;

Surmising here I don't play a seeker;

Get target to right above charm tick
apply pre debuffs like def lvl reductions
Swap to omalleys
swap to r8r def lvls wep
sacrificial slash
fortify - if using metal skill
QPQ
swap to jones & r9rr
EP
tangling mire - if using physical skill
Blade Affinity (reduced chan on sac slash/QPQ means you could probably keep this for here)
Gemini/Ion spike - cross fingers for a zerk/crit/both

Spamming it every 30 sec without all the above works too, depends on the target.

There's another seeker in my faction that is very good at setting all that up, and we've finally convinced her to start recording..

For Ebri (I assume this is who you mean), or any full str seeker with a +12 wep, they dont need this set up for most targets. Their damage is rediculously high without zerk crits.

Seekers and nerfing them :-)

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