BV vs HF

Viktorian - Archosaur
Viktorian - Archosaur Posts: 746 Arc User
edited March 2014 in General Discussion
so a friend and i were talking about this and we were wondering which is better DMG wise. keep in mind we were talking DEMON HF. also keep in mind the time spans for each and cooldowns. on a single boss not a group
Servers: Archosaur(PvE US West) and Harshlands (PvP US East)
Chars: Viktorian(100 2Rb Celestial Demon BM) PurpleHealz (100 Celestial Sage Cleric) DagsAway (95 Assassin)
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Post edited by Viktorian - Archosaur on

Comments

  • CapnK - Sanctuary
    CapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Demon HF is better both in one use and with cooldowns taken into account.

    Sage HF is roughly the same as BV but with less cooldown.

    HF is also better for the beginning of a boss when almost everyone has chi and sparks at the same time.

    In other words Blood Vow is nice but the BM should always be given priority for applying Curse to enemies.
  • Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver
    Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver Posts: 756 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    There's no comparison dude.

    HF>BV and PN(Demon Parasitic Nova has same effect) any day.

    BV is just a SS version of HF.

    HF is HF....it can't be beat..
  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Demon HF is100% damage for 9 seconds roughly adds up 900% damage.

    Blood vow @ 25% damage increase for 30 seconds adds up to 750% damage.

    Given the cooldown of each of them, demon hf is better/more spammable. A bm can actually use it 4 times by the time BV is ready again.

    What I like to see happen is for a demon hf to happen, and then bv, though that depends on the boss. (21 seconds for BV to be on uninterrupted by an HF.) Now if we're fighting the last boss in FSP, I actually like letting a bv happen when we first attack the boss, as I find the cool down timing to better coincide with right after it passes us chi/everyone sparks.
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  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited February 2014
    HF is better in... pretty much every way outside of arguably the HP debuff BV allows.

    Not only will the amp for BV be lower overall... but HF allows for a massive damage spike within a short time via debuff stacking that BV simply cannot compete with period. Combine this with the fact that HF can be used much more frequently pretty much makes HF blow BV out of the water.
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  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    HF + STA. I honestly don't get archers that think BVing first is a good idea if you got a BM b:surrender
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  • Zanryu - Lothranis
    Zanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    HF + STA. I honestly don't get archers that think BVing first is a good idea if you got a BM b:surrender

    'cause 30 seconds of a meh amp vs 9 seconds of a balls to the wall wreck your face all over the place amp to spike those sparks is obviously better. Obviously.
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary
    Asterelle - Sanctuary Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    HF + STA. I honestly don't get archers that think BVing first is a good idea if you got a BM b:surrender
    When was the last time they made a boss you can sharptooth? The devs hate archers.
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  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited February 2014
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

    When was the last time they made a boss you can sharptooth? The devs hate archers.

    That would be... um.... I think some of the treasure bosses? I think.


    ... D:
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  • Socqar - Lost City
    Socqar - Lost City Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    HF + STA. I honestly don't get archers that think BVing first is a good idea if you got a BM b:surrender

    Only situation is a boss that allows HP debuff to happen.
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

    When was the last time they made a boss you can sharptooth? The devs hate archers.

    Sadly... Yeah, dev's do hate us U.U Only way to make BV worth (the debuff) and they're slowly taking that off from us... Oh well, we can just hope for some new shiny toys to play with, someday U.U
  • Verenor - Morai
    Verenor - Morai Posts: 699 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

    When was the last time they made a boss you can sharptooth? The devs hate archers.

    Don't forget about Winged Shell, every new dungeon's boss bypasses it (demon winged shell non-stop, and it never went away from aoe's in FSP). Free mp sure but no saving a life when on low hpf:angry

    As for on-topic: I don't care which boss it is: HF->BV->HF, mostly because every single darned BM on our server somehow doesn't recognize it when BV is already on the boss and overwrites it just as it's on the boss for 5 seconds. Also gives the boss a non-stop amp instead of BV->HF->21sec cooldown remaining till next HF and in the end being the more damaging to do HF->BV->HF
  • mrgene
    mrgene Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Also, demon HF effect for 9s is about enough for everyone to finish their spark, so 9 seconds is optimized.
    BV lasts longer but you lose out some seconds for melee to channel their second spark and mags not sparkling anymore, so the 30s isn't really efficient.
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

    When was the last time they made a boss you can sharptooth? The devs hate archers.

    That is true of course. But if the boss can't get the STA effect, HF is even more ahead. lol
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  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

    When was the last time they made a boss you can sharptooth? The devs hate archers.
    because critting 9 out of 10 times just isnt enoughf:fume
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  • das7002
    das7002 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    because critting 9 out of 10 times just isnt enoughf:fume

    but but but I only have 43% crit, that isn't anywhere near high enough
  • Mikaelundin - Heavens Tear
    Mikaelundin - Heavens Tear Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    demon hf will win against any debuff
    you sir/madame are **** if you think otherwise
    demon hf is "THE AOE"
    it's the end all of AOE debuffs in this game
  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I did a FWS with an R9rr+10 refine at the least.. I didn't spy it.

    He used BV, I used HF (level 10).

    Between the two it was hard to tell which was more Spark-Friendly... So on that note, I say Demon HF is more potent per spark.

    But The 9 seconds compared to 30 seconds? It's obvious the 30 seconds are more PvP friendly, where as if you tried HF in PvP... Well I'll stop there, I don't have experience PvP with either BV or BM.

    I've taken my Archer to NW, but she doesn't have BV.

    My BM hasn't seen PvP outside the rare duel.
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  • ToyMaker_NOT - Raging Tide
    ToyMaker_NOT - Raging Tide Posts: 397 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I think this thread has been beaten to leather...

    HF > BV

    nuff said
  • Teiw - Sanctuary
    Teiw - Sanctuary Posts: 170 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Please remove archers from the game. They keep killing me in nation wars, and nobody likes them.
  • Verenor - Morai
    Verenor - Morai Posts: 699 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Teiw - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Please remove archers from the game. They keep killing me in nation wars, and nobody likes them.

    that's not true, I like me.

    Also don't BV Vs. Hf, but do HF+BV, this whole thread is bogus o.o when doing calculations on demon HF + spark vs BV + spark (calculated this using the Damage Calculator Spreadsheet of my stats Vs. Vile: Pestilent destroyer (FWS boss)

    With demon HF and spark my total damage done within 15seconds is 464,856.
    With Regular HF and spark my total dmg done within 15 seconds is 406,749
    With BV and spark my total damage done within 15 seconds is 363,169.


    Given a duration of 30 seconds as BV lasts 30seconds and HF has a cooldown of 30 seconds:

    Demon HF with sparked 15sec + 15sec of regular dmg deals 575,481 dmg within 30 seconds.
    Normal HF with sparked 15sec + 15sec regular dmg deals 517,374 dmg within 30 seconds.
    BV with sparked 15sec + 15sec regular dmg deals 501,450 dmg within 30 seconds.

    Can we now finally call this thread a day and conclude that Yes HF is best, but you really need to time your spark perfectly (impossible when BM doesn't shout) to get the full 9 seconds during spark and not during casting spark.
  • Atropah - Sanctuary
    Atropah - Sanctuary Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    So glad to see a post on this since for years I've had to argue against people saying "BV and HF are the same thing, BV just lasts longer."

    No. HF is 4x as strong as BV. BV is 25% amp, HF is 100%. It becomes even more important when you stack it with things like veno amp, EP, TM, and defense reductions and when everyone times their sparks together.

    Here's an example:
    HF(200%) x amp (130%) x EP (120%) x Devour (~130% damage) x TM (~125)=507% damage on every physical attack.
    vs
    BV(125%) x amp (130%) x EP (120%) x Devour (~130% damage) x TM (~125)=317% damage on phys attacks.

    Then all the buffs start dieing and going into cd and BV makes much less difference. We know from our Nirvana days stacking debuffs together and sparks to do a huge chunk of damage is the most effective output.
  • Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver
    Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver Posts: 756 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Teiw - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Please remove archers from the game. They keep killing me in nation wars, and nobody likes them.

    Your fault for playing a squishy arcane veno. Make a seeker or barb.

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