Is this legal?

Vavavum - Archosaur · February 2014

I'm not sure where this should go, so please move it if it's in the wrong forum.

Anyway, I play on the Archosaur server, and lately, I've noticed several players on WC trying to sell skills. Is this even legal? Somehow, I doubt it. I've sent a ticket with a screen shot, but I would like to be able to warn players to beware of what seems to be a new scam (to me at least; I've just recently returned to the game, after more than a month's absence), or, at the least, one I've never noticed before. b:thanks

Desdi - Sanctuary · February 2014

It's not a scam, people have been making skill books to sell skills for years and with Old Book Pages and Pages of Fate being cheaper now, you'll see skills being up for sale much more often.

Zheii - Archosaur · February 2014

You might want to be a bit more specific, by "sell skills" do you mean any skills? Sage/Demon/Morai/Etc? Or do you mean skills from bloods? Or even just bound skills?
Because if people are just selling skills... such as Sage/Demon/Morai/AEU then yes that is quite legal and allowed, anything can be sold as long as it is not bound to the person or un-tradable.

Vavavum - Archosaur · February 2014

Okay, I was unaware that this is legal. I don't think it should be, personally, but I stand corrected. So, even at a price of several million coins, you still wouldn't call it a scam? Funny, but to me, such a high markup should be disallowed. I think that there should, at the least, be markup caps for anything being sold. Still, if it's legal, then I will humbly stand corrected, and say nor more about it.

Edit; I mean regular player class skills, such as (for instance) Wizard, Sin,BM etc skills. I'm not sure what you mean by bound. I just play. There are some words and phrases I'm still not sure about. b:surrender

Eoria - Harshlands · February 2014

You must be new here.

ovenusarmanio · February 2014

Vavavum - Archosaur wrote: »

Okay, I was unaware that this is legal. I don't think it should be, personally, but I stand corrected. So, even at a price of several million coins, you still wouldn't call it a scam? Funny, but to me, such a high markup should be disallowed. I think that there should, at the leat, be markup caps for anything being sold. Still, if it's legal, then I will humbly stand corrected, and say nor more about it. b:surrender

Yes, they can sell it for whatever they want. That doesn't mean anyone is going to buy it though. Keep in mind that a lot of these high prices are high because the items required to make them are also high priced. For example, old book pages are still worth enough that a skill made for them could run you in the millions of coins easily. There are also some skills that are especially difficult to obtain because they can only be farmed, and are in high demand. The scarcity combined with the high demand will result in a high price.

Zheii - Archosaur · February 2014

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

You must be new here.

^This. People can sell anything they want at any price they desire (whether they actually get a buyer is another thing all together)
But I think you'll quickly learn that people are greedy and when it comes to coin you won't find many things that are "cheap", or sold at the "right price".

Vavavum - Archosaur · February 2014

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

You must be new here.

No, just not up on every single aspect of the game. There are still nuances I have yet to learn.

opkossy · February 2014

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Yes, they can sell it for whatever they want. That doesn't mean anyone is going to buy it though. Keep in mind that a lot of these high prices are high because the items required to make them are also high priced. For example, old book pages are still worth enough that a skill made for them could run you in the millions of coins easily. There are also some skills that are especially difficult to obtain because they can only be farmed, and are in high demand. The scarcity combined with the high demand will result in a high price.

This is correct.

In fact, there's even a specific section of the Auction House that's there purely for the sake of selling skills.

Completely legal and the prices are more based on how difficult to obtain the skills are as well as their general use. That and the fact that it's actually quite a fair price for most once you get to the levels where those skills can be learned.

Vavavum - Archosaur · February 2014

But, if I created another Wizard (for example), and I want to learn Glacial Embrace, why would I want to pay several million for that skill, when i can go to the Wizard Trainer and spend the lower amount for that skill? That makes no sense at all. Only a Wizard can use it, so what good would it do for, say, a Barb to buy it? What am I not getting here? Or did no one see my edit above? So, what you're saying is Vava (my character) could just outright sell her Glacial Embrace (I forget what level I have the skill at; I'm not in game at this time) to just anyone?

DeffyNature - Archosaur · February 2014

Hmmm looking at op's level, I think it's more of a misunderstanding.
At lvl 89, you reach an important step in your cultivation, when you chose sage or demon.
From that point on, the skills you usually learned from the skill trainer and maxed at lvl 10 can be upgraded to lvl 11 via skill books.
These skill books can be dropped in instances (basic skills drop in FB 89 Eden and Brimstone, higher level skills in FB 99, Abaddon and Seat of Torment) with low to very low drop rate, or can be crafted via pages; these pages are of different types and each skill needs a certain number of each type to craft a random skill booklet. This booklet can drop randomly one of many skills,so you never know what you can get, hence people might prefer to buy desired skill books.
Very few skill books cannot be crafted via pages and only drop in FB 99, and since the drop rate is very, very bad, they become incredibly valuable.
The value has increased even more with the coming of the latest expansion and the introduction of lvl 12 upgrades to certain skills, so people need the lvl 11 ones to progress.
There are also certain skill books that drop in AEU (Advanced Endless Universe) a Morai instance, that can be sold also. Also, a recent addition to the Bidding Hall, certain skill books that could only be farmed in Morai orders and that were bound have been introduced in there, and those skills are tradable (order books take around a month to farm each via daily quests).
Hope this clarified more. b:cute

Jarkhen - Archosaur · February 2014

DeffyNature - Archosaur wrote: »

Hmmm looking at op's level, I think it's more of a misunderstanding.
At lvl 89, you reach an important step in your cultivation, when you chose sage or demon.
From that point on, the skills you usually learned from the skill trainer and maxed at lvl 10 can be upgraded to lvl 11 via skill books.
These skill books can be dropped in instances (basic skills drop in FB 89 Eden and Brimstone, higher level skills in FB 99, Abaddon and Seat of Torment) with low to very low drop rate, or can be crafted via pages; these pages are of different types and each skill needs a certain number of each type to craft a random skill booklet. This booklet can drop randomly one of many skills,so you never know what you can get, hence people might prefer to buy desired skill books.
Very few skill books cannot be crafted via pages and only drop in FB 99, and since the drop rate is very, very bad, they become incredibly valuable.
The value has increased even more with the coming of the latest expansion and the introduction of lvl 12 upgrades to certain skills, so people need the lvl 11 ones to progress.
There are also certain skill books that drop in AEU (Advanced Endless Universe) a Morai instance, that can be sold also. Also, a recent addition to the Bidding Hall, certain skill books that could only be farmed in Morai orders and that were bound have been introduced in there, and those skills are tradable (order books take around a month to farm each via daily quests).
Hope this clarified more. b:cute

^ This.

In short: The books that are being sold are not the same level 1 - level 10 versions that you can upgrade normally at your trainer. These books are for extra skills that require a book to learn at all (e.g. lv79 skills, lv100 (celestial cultivation) skills, Morai skills), or demon/sage level 11 upgrades to normal skills.

ovenusarmanio · February 2014

Vavavum - Archosaur wrote: »

But, if I created another Wizard (for example), and I want to learn Glacial Embrace, why would I want to pay several million for that skill, when i can go to the Wizard Trainer and spend the lower amount for that skill? That makes no sense at all. Only a Wizard can use it, so what good would it do for, say, a Barb to buy it? What am I not getting here? Or did no one see my edit above? So, what you're saying is Vava (my character) could just outright sell her Glacial Embrace (I forget what level I have the skill at; I'm not in game at this time) to just anyone?

Ah, I see where you confusion is coming from now. The skills being sold are different the ones you learn normally from the skill trainer and fall into different categories. They can only be learned from books once you meet the requirements, which vary:

Level 79 Skils

I forget the lore reason behind these, but these are additional skills you can learn once you reach level 79 and complete your 79 cultivation. They require ink and pages to create, but you can also just buy the book from someone.

Sage/Demon

The skills you learn from the skill trainer are up to level 10 of those skills. Once you hit level 89, you will be able to focus your training and become a sage or a demon. What this means is that you'll be able to upgrade some of your skills, to gain even more power from them. These are level 11 ones, that offer different bonuses depending on which side you choose. So for example, glacial embrace is one of the skills that gain more power once you learn the sage/demon skill. The Sage Version of glacial embrace increases water resistance while Demon increases Mana Regeneration even further. You can only be a sage or a demon, not both. The method for obtaining these books vary, from different types of pages, to farming specific instances.

Level 100 skills

These work similar to 79 skills

Morai Skills.

These are additional skills you can learn once you are able to visit the alternate plain known as Morai, these are completely different skills from the ones you already have. Some of them can be obtained just by doing quests for the various orders you join, and others have to be obtained from running an instance in there known as AEU. The ones from AEU are able to be sold.

Primordial Skills

Once you reawaken there are various skills you can unlock using bloods. Some of them are skill combinations and require you already know the sage/demon version of these skills to use them. This is why the price has increased for some of those skills, if you are wondering why some people note that they got those skills cheaper back in the day

Vavavum - Archosaur · February 2014

b:cuteNow I really feel stupid. My bad. Please, no more replies. I feel silly enough as it is. I'll just b:shutup now. Edit; Some of the skills I saw people selling, though, were the lower level ones (I saw someone trying to sell a level 1 skill today). But, for the most part, I'll just have to pay more attention, and realize that they are Lev 79 skills, etc.

Transcend - Lost City · February 2014

Welcome to pwi

Vavavum - Archosaur · February 2014

Transcend - Lost City wrote: »

Welcome to pwi

It's 2014. I've been playing (on and off, due to RL concerns; mother with Parkinson's) since 2011. But, thanks.

opkossy · February 2014

One thing not covered is skill books for crafting in general.

As those books normally require various quests and a large investment to obtain, some players choose to sell the books if they have no use for them or have purchased the botique item that allows a person to max their crafting skills without needing to do the quests.

Fabuleux - Lost City · February 2014

Vavavum - Archosaur wrote: »

b:cuteNow I really feel stupid. My bad. Please, no more replies. I feel silly enough as it is. I'll just b:shutup now. Edit; Some of the skills I saw people selling, though, were the lower level ones (I saw someone trying to sell a level 1 skill today). But, for the most part, I'll just have to pay more attention, and realize that they are Lev 79 skills, etc.

Level one skill books? They'll be Morai/AEU/79/100 skill books. As those skills only have one level to them.

SkogDyr - Lost City · February 2014

omgherd.....!!!

WTG forumfolk. Responding to the OP with kindness and helping... What happened? b:chuckle

You people may just restore enough faith in the PWI community to make Skog come out of retirement just to check the server. b:pleased

Sparafucile - Harshlands · March 2014

I would point out, there is some potential for someone to be scammed with crafting skill books. The books available from normal questing within within the game to advance ones crafting skills are a very different thing to the ones from the boutique; cashshop craft books can be used to level craft skills to the max from zero, hence the price. Normal craft skill books only advance you by one level, and most require certain other conditions to be met also. I can't remember what the difference in icon appearance may be, but I guess there are people out there that may try to pass off normal craft books as boutique ones, so as always it pays to be careful when parting with large amounts of coins for any item

EDIT: @Vavavum, there are no stupid questions, only stupid people that don't bother to ask questions

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver · March 2014

Welcome to PWI

Trainer can level up your skills to 10, but to make them level 11, you must be sage or demon at level 89, and have their 11 book to learn it in heaven/hell(can enter at 89+ after doing quest for sage/demon)

Recently with new horizons people can farm a new dungeon called Flowsilver Palace(you must reach lvl 100, then rebirth to lvl 1 and level back up to 100 with x4 extra XP on mobs and quests) to enter. It gives either 30 Pages of fate, or Old Book Pages that are needed to make these level 11 skills. You can do this dungeon once per day on every toon for the pages.

Zymari - Archosaur · March 2014

I love it. ask a dumb question and get a lesson in Economics, Finance and in general, game play. CLASSIC!b:laugh

XxWilxX - Heavens Tear · March 2014

is this real? lol

malllliii · March 2014

funny how you send a ticket first then ask questions later lol

Longknife - Harshlands · March 2014

Posting In An Epic Thread

Azura - Lost City · March 2014

You must be new to the game...

Welcome to PWI, btw.

skaitavia · March 2014

As per requested of the original poster, this thread can now be closed~

I'm glad that the responses given were extremely helpful! b:cute

Is this legal?

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