archer stealth

Thehaxshot - Heavens Tear
Thehaxshot - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
edited March 2014 in Archer
the discription of the archer stealth (Ataraxia) has changed and it doesnt say that it reduces our movement speed anymore in the discription. does this mean that archers are finnaly able to move in stealth?

we gotten a stealth skill , but we cant even move in it, people can just pot or use morai skills

whats the point of stealth?
Post edited by Thehaxshot - Heavens Tear on

Comments

  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited February 2014
    For that emergency "please don't hit me so my charm can tick" moment.

    ... or if you feel like camping a certain spot for whatever reason.

    Aside from that, archer stealth is fairly bad for PvP due to it killing mobility.
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  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    the discription of the archer stealth (Ataraxia) has changed and it doesnt say that it reduces our movement speed anymore in the discription. does this mean that archers are finnaly able to move in stealth?

    we gotten a stealth skill , but we cant even move in it, people can just pot or use morai skills

    whats the point of stealth?

    Watch how sins use it. They shadow escape to avoid killing blows, then immediately open back up with a stun/CC. Typically your opponent is weakest after they've blown everything to get the killing blow, so this is the best time to counterattack.
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  • Thehaxshot - Heavens Tear
    Thehaxshot - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Arches lack on attack power and defense , so we atleast sshould be able to stealth.

    mostly in the server its always ganking so , and theres no point us having stealth while we cant move or anything , because we either have to use teleport scrolls to teleport away , and having to use a psychic alt to summon us back to the spot lol.

    and also we always get screwed with the cooldowns we get.

    stealth should be like a 60-90 second cooldown skill not 2 minutes , and have like a purifying effect + 1 spark gain on it just like sins ahah ;P
  • HolyMyst - Harshlands
    HolyMyst - Harshlands Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Arches lack on attack power and defense , so we atleast sshould be able to stealth.

    mostly in the server its always ganking so , and theres no point us having stealth while we cant move or anything , because we either have to use teleport scrolls to teleport away , and having to use a psychic alt to summon us back to the spot lol.

    Archers lack attack power ? since when
  • kenpachikensai
    kenpachikensai Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I personally like the stealth. We can, technically, stealth through a dungeon like any other sin. b:laugh
  • Thehaxshot - Heavens Tear
    Thehaxshot - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    we lacked on attack power since always. we have to purge to kill our target , and purge is goin of every 2000 attacks. besides that we can miss on arcanes? with our bs 90% stunning arrow/aimlow

    And even if we have purge , our targets just rebuff with the new spirit of defence buff that pwi brought into the game , **** archers over.

    also our damage is reduced by half upon close distance , and were hitting like endgame people for like 3k crits with an +12 r9stage3 bow? come on now lol

    Archers need some ugrade lol to everything, from spark cost to cooldowns and from skills to damage.
  • prof
    prof Posts: 1,111
    edited February 2014
    we lacked on attack power since always. we have to purge to kill our target , and purge is goin of every 2000 attacks. besides that we can miss on arcanes? with our bs 90% stunning arrow/aimlow

    And even if we have purge , our targets just rebuff with the new spirit of defence buff that pwi brought into the game , **** archers over.

    also our damage is reduced by half upon close distance , and were hitting like endgame people for like 3k crits with an +12 r9stage3 bow? come on now lol

    Archers need some ugrade lol to everything, from spark cost to cooldowns and from skills to damage.

    How cute!

    No, archers don't lack attack. No, you don't need to debuff to kill someone. No, it doesn't take 2,000 attacks to proc the debuff.

    What are you, sage? b:chuckle
  • Horosho - Lost City
    Horosho - Lost City Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Archers that think EAs are underpowered.. Learn to play your class lol.
    ...
  • Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary
    Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Pff archers having low attack? Liez. An archer hits me about 4 times with auto attacks before I can even cast a skill. Everyone of those hits hurts like crazy and then with the speed, crit chance, and purge added in archers not having enough dmg... please. Archers have the most range In the game already so I honestly don't see why they need stealth anyways. No they should not be able to run regular speed in stealth that would completely diminish the ability to get out of archer range.
  • Thehaxshot - Heavens Tear
    Thehaxshot - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    eh lol we hit casters nowaddays for 1-3k crits? while they can just put out 8k normal hits..

    purifyspell triggers 24/7 , zerk 24/7

    and purge no it takes alongtime to proceed purge.
    prof wrote: »
    How cute!

    No, archers don't lack attack. No, you don't need to debuff to kill someone. No, it doesn't take 2,000 attacks to proc the debuff.

    What are you, sage? b:chuckle


    if you actully play an archer for a longer time then just 1 x with demon QS proceedd , then you see how long it takes to proceed purge , and yes we lack on attack damage , our output is like 1-3k crit per hit , and triggers purifyspell 24/7. and yes archers need the purge to kill other classes , besides if its archer vs archer
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    OPKossy wrote: »
    Aside from that, archer stealth is fairly bad for PvP due to it killing mobility.

    Is it really? Add leaps to the equation and you got a 40m radius to be in from the last position you saw the archer. xD Honestly, no. I don't see it being unfair.
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  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited February 2014
    Is it really? Add leaps to the equation and you got a 40m radius to be in from the last position you saw the archer. xD Honestly, no. I don't see it being unfair.
    Assuming the leaps aren't on cooldown as it's likely they'd have been used beforehand.

    Even then it's... really not that difficult to tag a stealthed archer because said leaps are the only way they have to get around. At least not to anyone that's used to assassins since their stealth is far less restrictive.

    But it's less of a questionof fair/unfair to me and more useful/not useful. Good for a quick (temporary) escape a la spark resisting. Bad for pretty much anything else thanks to stealth pots and lack of mobility.

    And camping one spot in stealth like that is just too silly for me to bother discussing it because of that lack of mobility... which also extends to air.
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  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    eh lol we hit casters nowaddays for 1-3k crits? while they can just put out 8k normal hits..

    purifyspell triggers 24/7 , zerk 24/7

    and purge no it takes alongtime to proceed purge.




    if you actully play an archer for a longer time then just 1 x with demon QS proceedd , then you see how long it takes to proceed purge , and yes we lack on attack damage , our output is like 1-3k crit per hit , and triggers purifyspell 24/7. and yes archers need the purge to kill other classes , besides if its archer vs archer

    Are you implying casters don't need purge to kill equally geared, fully buffed BMs, barbs, other casters, etc? We're supposed to specialize in killing HA, yet full buffed +12 seekers/bm's/barbs don't even get charm ticked by BIDS.

    My mystic doesn't even blink at a BT from a +12 wiz when fully buffed, it does like 1/3 of my hp...and I'm not even +12...
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  • Aesthor - Heavens Tear
    Aesthor - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,845 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Archers are not necessarily underpowered, they're just overwhelmingly boring, because the new update did not give us anything new to play with it. The only change in our gameplay is reactionary to what OTHER classes got from the update, so when I say archers got shafted in the latest update, that's what I mean. Archers have always been notoriously bad in terms of numbers on paper, so complaining about it now is kind of pointless. I'm mostly just BORED of having the same old skills while everyone else gets something new. I literally put nothing new on my hotkey bar this update. That's what annoys me.

    As for stealth, it's really only useful against lazy people, stupid people, oblivious people, or a combination of those. I myself find it useful to buy me a few seconds to equip a new charm when my charm runs out, because people in NW tend to be too lazy to try-hard detect pot you (unless you're a very unpopular person I guess). When others use it against me I find it a minor annoyance at best because if I really cared about that person attacking me again I have to turn my screen in that direction while I go about my business. But yes, at best, a MINOR ANNOYANCE. If you're good you can do as Kossy said and buy yourself a charm tick, but with the cast time it's a bit risky unless you have WoG on top of it. I mean I've done it, but it's certainly not as good as a WoG.

    Lastly, damage output? Archers have the worst damage spike potential. If you think archers have "high damage output" either you or your gear sucks (or maybe both). What archers do have is a lot of damage THREAT, which is what makes them so good in group PVP in spite of their craptastic stats. If you are standing inside an archer's radius of attack, you either have to do something about it, or you will be constantly taking annoying arrows up the butt/in the face/in the knee/everywhere, most with a chance to purge (unless you are a demon archer who plays like a sage like a certain archer who has in fact posted in this thread but I will not name names...). This means if you plan on engaging a group that has an archer/archers, you will be very sad if you don't chase them around and shut them down. Even though those craptastic arrows are bouncing off your ridiculously high pdef (and AAs have pretty ridiculous pdef nowadays), they WILL keep your charm ticking, which gives someone else plenty of room to set you up and kill you. Or they will just dps you to a long agonizingly slow death.

    Archers are great allies to have in group PVP of any type (PK/TW/NW). It's just very frustrating for the person playing the archer because of the way the game is not-balanced.

    Oh yea, despite the crappy update, I would still say the single most annoying thing being an archer is people complaining about how strong archers are. As I said, if you are getting consistently insta-rolled by archers (and here I mean LONE ARCHERS, an archer by him/herself, an archer who killed you without team help), either your gear sucks or your play sucks. Archers ARE dangerous, and they DO output quite a bit of damage over a long period of time, but all this QQ about them is actually laughable because of the number of options you have to do something about it. Yea, complain more about the purge. It's useful, but would you prefer we got GoF or purify instead? Yea didn't think so.

    I don't necessarily agree with some of the people complaining that archers now suck. Yes, between our worst weapon proc, crappy stats, lack of spike damage, and now even our antistun made obsolete by knockdown, we have seen better days, but I don't think archers are useless at all. I would argue that in spite of all our weakness, archers are still invaluable to any group PVP scene, especially because now that everyone's defenses are ridiculous, the purge is an integral part of focus-targetting. However, to say that archers do not deserve updates to keep gameplay fresh and to keep up with the advances all the other classes are getting is extremely selfish and actually quite stupid.

    tl;dr: Learn the strengths AND the limits of your class; and archers are boring.

    Edit2: Sorry Kossy for this post being very long and ever so slightly off topic (I imagine this fits better in with the archer QQ threads, but I really couldn't assed to participate in really long threads).
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    You expect 1 hit to charm tick heavies? You think you're supposed to bypass 40-50k heavies with just a 2 spark nuke or something and you complain when archers think they don't have spike?

    Man get some perspective. At least no archer has complained about not being able to charm tick arcanes in a single hit lol.
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  • Bhavyy - Raging Tide
    Bhavyy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,083 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Is it really? Add leaps to the equation and you got a 40m radius to be in from the last position you saw the archer. xD Honestly, no. I don't see it being unfair.

    Lol?
    Sin stealth purifies and gives one spark and movement is enabled allows you to double spark without breaking the stealth status and has 2x30m teleports.

    There's a stealth pot usable by all classes that let's you use friendly skills on other targets without breaking and is movement enabled.
    Good one.
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  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    If you're getting rolled by archers chances are s/he just outgears you

    And someone said that it's hard to get out of archer's range. WTF? No matter how far you run you HAVE to hit the edge of an archer's attack radius anyways; get into 5 meters and stay there; pretty easy to CC archers.
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  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    You expect 1 hit to charm tick heavies? You think you're supposed to bypass 40-50k heavies with just a 2 spark nuke or something and you complain when archers think they don't have spike?

    Man get some perspective. At least no archer has complained about not being able to charm tick arcanes in a single hit lol.

    I'd expect to at least tick his charm on a spell that forces me to sit there for 5 seconds and blow 2 sparks, especially since we don't have a purge proc to rely on to kill something.

    Also it's a bit ridiculous for archers to complain about damage and then not factor in cast times. An archer can attack multiple times in 10 seconds, while most casters will get off at most 3-5 spells in that duration. When heavys are packing 30k+ hp how hard do you think we need to hit when we only have 3-5 shots?
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Who still channels for 5s at endgame? Maybe if you count in 3 sparks. Besides, I may not tick in 2 waves of barrage either.
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  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Who still channels for 5s at endgame? Maybe if you count in 3 sparks. Besides, I may not tick in 2 waves of barrage either.

    BIDS is 4 sec channel + 1.6s cast, nothing can reduce cast time so w/ 25% channel times is ~4.6s, Blade tempest is 4.8s, while MS is 5.2s. This also doesn't factor in having to cast Undine strike before-hand to actually do decent damage either, which takes up another ~1.2s before we even start doing damage.
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  • Thehaxshot - Heavens Tear
    Thehaxshot - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I'd expect to at least tick his charm on a spell that forces me to sit there for 5 seconds and blow 2 sparks, especially since we don't have a purge proc to rely on to kill something.

    Also it's a bit ridiculous for archers to complain about damage and then not factor in cast times. An archer can attack multiple times in 10 seconds, while most casters will get off at most 3-5 spells in that duration. When heavys are packing 30k+ hp how hard do you think we need to hit when we only have 3-5 shots?



    Our damage is weak. we hit the weakest of all classes because

    1. our damage is half upon close distance
    2. we have to purge to deal the damage arcanes/zerk classes can do just trough full buffs
    3. and yes we can attack multiple times , but how many times do we miss in those times we attack?, well ALOT.

    4. Accuracy is broken , we shouldnt be able to misss that much , our stuns being 90% to proceed , and then beside that miss arcane classes? Arcane Classes hit 100% without they can even miss on us. besides that we have a toomany ammount of skills that uses 2 sparks and 1 spark

    5. Archers should gain some damage addon, because ourpurge is useless. all classes can purge aswell shouldnt be even able to use purge because they already have zerk and purify

    bms/sins/casters , all classes can have purge which makes it not fair for the archer class.

    bows & purge should be for archers only if we dont get a damage addon
    Are you implying casters don't need purge to kill equally geared, fully buffed BMs, barbs, other casters, etc? We're supposed to specialize in killing HA, yet full buffed +12 seekers/bm's/barbs don't even get charm ticked by BIDS.

    My mystic doesn't even blink at a BT from a +12 wiz when fully buffed, it does like 1/3 of my hp...and I'm not even +12...

    and no casters dont need purge to kill equally geared fully buffed seekers /bms/barbs
    because their damage is too strong.

    - Mystics can easily lock their target while doin offensive damage with their high ammount of damage.

    - Psychics just have to switch to black voodoo on their soul of stunning.

    - Venos can purge every 30 seconds which is OP

    - Wizzies use their genie skill spark to hit high as stupid

    - Clerics have charm debuff skills and hit high as stupid aswell


    so no casters dont need purge to kill anyone ,because genie skill spark is OP , and just the basic damage of casters are OP. hitting for 8k noncrit , cant miss and can crit ,is sick.
    If the caster just know how to kill the target properly then theres no purge needed.
    -snip length-

    The thing is that all classes can purge , not only us. we cant zerk or have purify like everyone else, but they can have a spirit blackhole purge r8 weapon? Archers suck on chi cost , damage , and just bassicaly alll skills we have lol. besides that we miss on arcane classes is just bs.
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited March 2014
    Edit2: Sorry Kossy for this post being very long and ever so slightly off topic (I imagine this fits better in with the archer QQ threads, but I really couldn't assed to participate in really long threads).

    No worries, Aes. The discussion basically turned that way in here anyways. That and what you're saying is totally true anyways. b:cute
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  • KingThis - Heavens Tear
    KingThis - Heavens Tear Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Ummm yeahhhhh. I been an archer since beta. i know archers better then all these little idiots whom need to uninstall. Archers purge has been nerfed beyond usefulness. I can go into a 10 min fight without seeing a single purge, and now that everyones and their mother purges using cele swords. Our proc is as useless as ever lol. Then we have the close distance nerf, like the eff are you serious? i have to literally spam my leaps every chance i get. 20m distance isnt much of a gap lol either. I used to be a 24/7 pker. pked every chance i got. I dont even bother going whitename anymore, its pointless. Stealth is useless, Cast/chan/immob is for lawls I Really cant say much bc im really tired of pwi looking down on archers.
    To the noobs who are taking more than 3k dmg from archers at 0.83 aps you seriously have no place to speak. Since that archer is either endgame or youre completely undergeared lol.
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  • Zoldi - Morai
    Zoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Archers purge has been nerfed beyond usefulness. I can go into a 10 min fight without seeing a single purge, and now that everyones and their mother purges using cele swords. Our proc is as useless as ever lol. to speak.

    Seriously ? Either you're really unlucky, either I am even more than I thought... I'm always getting purged in a few seconds by R9.3 bow then I rebuff and as soon as I'm rebuffed I'm purged again (and then skills/pots are in cooldown). I even consider R9.3 archers being more efficient to purge than veno because you can see the veno coming and they have a 30 sec cooldown when an archer can sometimes purge 3-4 times (from so far...) in a 30 seconds period ...
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  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Seriously ? Either you're really unlucky, either I am even more than I thought... I'm always getting purged in a few seconds by R9.3 bow then I rebuff and as soon as I'm rebuffed I'm purged again (and then skills/pots are in cooldown). I even consider R9.3 archers being more efficient to purge than veno because you can see the veno coming and they have a 30 sec cooldown when an archer can sometimes purge 3-4 times (from so far...) in a 30 seconds period ...

    He was referring to 1v1s, where almost 70% of the time we are kiting to escape the damage reduction and if a bm/sin/barb.

    Kiting = doesn't purge
    WoG = doesnt purge
    Stunning arrow = doesn't purge
    Aim low = doesn't purge
    ...
    (the list goes on)

    In mass pvp/TW/NW where you can attack relatively uncontested with BoA/auto attacks/QS/TA spam you have a considerably higher chance to purge.

    If you are getting purged in 1v1s this is because you are not forcing the archer to kite by constantly standing on them, which forces them to use control skills more, which can't purge.

    Luck involved either way obviously, and you are more likely to recall the times you got purged several times, and archers are more likely to recall the times it never proc'ed.
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  • Zoldi - Morai
    Zoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Oh ok, that's a little clearer... 1v1 is really situationnal anyway but still... it happened several time to.me being attacked by an archer who opened with stunning arrow then QS and autoattack. And I was purged before being able to move or use skills, so...
    And hopefully you can't purge while kitting (still are the only class being able to purge from that far)

    Anyway what you said below is really true.
    Luck involved either way obviously, and you are more likely to recall the times you got purged several times, and archers are more likely to recall the times it never proc'ed.
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  • RankNine - Momaganon
    RankNine - Momaganon Posts: 1,241 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ...and now that everyones and their mother purges using cele swords.
    cele swords? explain!
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  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    cele swords? explain!

    Genie skill Celestial sword, drains genie but doesn't require energy to use, so you can spam, like one every second or more, the genie attack can proc weapon effects.

    So wield a purge pole/purge bow, chase the target or kite the target around spam clicking that skill till purge.
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