Primal Sunder Stat Real?

Conalll - Archosaur · February 2014

I was looking at what the skill section of the encyclopedia says the new skills do, deciding which I wanted when, if they're any good, ect. Then I looked at the new sunder.

33,415 bleed damage?! Talk about a nice upgrade! I don't care who you are, that's gonna hurt!

But is it real, or one mother of an error? Anyone know if the new sunder really does that massive amount of bleed damage?

Terrwyne - Sanctuary · February 2014

....Talking about barb skills check ecatomb sage or demon armageddon

Consume half of your Health and Mana to power a
massive attack that obliterates all enemies within
12 meters. Deals 5500 Physical damage. Each point of
Health and Mana consumed deals an additional 5000 damage.

xD lol sounds insane to me..
But I dont play barb or have sunder so I dont know anything

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · February 2014

Hmm not so sure.

The thing about fixed amount add on's is they suck when damage reductions are applied.

For example 33,415 bleed damage.

PvP reduced to 25% so 8353.75

Against an average target with 70% pdef reduction = 2088.43 damage over 12 seconds

So a bleed of 174 damage every second?

This is ignoring def/att/spirit lvls.

I'm sure it's nice in PvE though.

opkossy · February 2014

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hmm not so sure.

The thing about fixed amount add on's is they suck when damage reductions are applied.

For example 33,415 bleed damage.

PvP reduced to 25% so 8353.75

Against an average target with 70% pdef reduction = 2088.43 damage over 12 seconds

So a bleed of 174 damage every second?

This is ignoring def/att/spirit lvls.

I'm sure it's nice in PvE though.

This post.

It's why, even before R9, you never saw archers using their (formerly) 12k DoT from Stormrage. By the time it went through damage reductions it wound up being a giant waste of sparks and time.

WannaBM - Archosaur · February 2014

Yup, or just compare it to the rest of the damage you do, even in PvE.

You pull a bunch of mobs and:
second 1: sunder 60k
Second 2: armageddon 300k

Does it really matter if you get another 30k over 12 whopping seconds ?

Atropah - Sanctuary · February 2014

Terrwyne - Sanctuary wrote: »

....Talking about barb skills check ecatomb sage or demon armageddon

Consume half of your Health and Mana to power a
massive attack that obliterates all enemies within
12 meters. Deals 5500 Physical damage. Each point of
Health and Mana consumed deals an additional 4.

xD lol sounds insane to me..
But I dont play barb or have sunder so I dont know anything

Fixed; it was a typo. They copy pasted the static damage of 5000 (sage) and 5500(demon) to the dependent damage that is 4 points per hp/mp consumed.

As for the bleed, DarkSkies covered it. We do 25% damage in pvp, and that'll be reduced further by their physical defenses. He was being conservative with 70% pdef reduction against your average opponent. I'm going to assume a rebirthed barb in 100+ gear (since you need to be 100 and rebirthed to get the skill) will be fighting other 100+ rebirthed opponents and you can expect them to all be 20k+ pdef. Maybe an LA opponent with magic ornies, but most HA, AA with pdef ornies, and LA with pdef ornies will have at least 80% reduction. So you'll be landing 20% of the 25% reduced damage. 20% x 25%= only 5% damage. Then over 12 seconds means 5%/12 seconds, so .42% of that damage per second. Less than half a percent of that 33,415 will be delt per second (139 damage/sec).

This was the criticism behind people going all ga-ga over the Brother's of Fear Warsoul axes because of their Rip proc causing 5000 bleed damage. 5k damage over 15 seconds becomes only like 120 damage per second. Stacked 2 or 3 times (hard to do with axes) it still is only 200-300 dps.

I also remember BMs trying to do the same thing with the r6 sage fists Fist of Fecalius Rip proc. 5k bleed proc at 4 aps very well might stack into some decent damage. It didn't.

Bleed is a great skill for barbs because it keeps gaining aggro over time so we're less likely to lose aggro, plus it stacks with itself.

XxWilxX - Heavens Tear · February 2014

Waste of spark.. would rather using those sparks on something else .. Anyways Sunder, at least for sage barbs, will remain as a pure PVE skill b:bye

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary · February 2014

I never knew that. I was wondering why pet bleed is so much more effective than class bleeds lol.

opkossy · February 2014

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

I never knew that. I was wondering why pet bleed is so much more effective than class bleeds lol.

Yeah. Bleed from pets doesn't suffer the full PvP damage penalty (though, unlike other pet attacks, it suffers level based damage reductions) so it winds up being vastly more effective than any DoT a player can use.

Atropah - Sanctuary · February 2014

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

I never knew that. I was wondering why pet bleed is so much more effective than class bleeds lol.

Iirc back in the early days of PWI (about the first 1.5 years) pet damage wasn't nerfed at all in pk, which made Nixes ridiculously OP. Back then 8-10k hp was endgame and a 3.5k bleed + nix stun + 2 pet attacks was enough to kill most endgame players single handedly, no player involvement needed.

Nowadays we largely ignore pets, but back then a part of pk was stunning the veno or kitting it to get the nix alone to kill it.

lythraos · February 2014

XxWilxX - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Waste of spark.. would rather using those sparks on something else .. Anyways Sunder, at least for sage barbs, will remain as a pure PVE skill b:bye

Writing this certainly made some puppies die.

*crits with Sunder for 19k on precooked foe T3 barbs*
Useless waste of sparks.

SilverMayhem - Archosaur · February 2014

Conalll - Archosaur wrote: »

I was looking at what the skill section of the encyclopedia says the new skills do, deciding which I wanted when, if they're any good, ect. Then I looked at the new sunder.

33,415 bleed damage?! Talk about a nice upgrade! I don't care who you are, that's gonna hurt!

But is it real, or one mother of an error? Anyone know if the new sunder really does that massive amount of bleed damage?

Did the Test your Power Dummy 3 times with new Demon Sunder Primal Version.

Hit 100k-110k with a bleeding of a constant 23k.

Hit it on mobs in Primal (Shadow Assassins). Did about 30-40k (1shots) to mobs and about another 3k Bleed.

Did a test on an Aps BM with about +3 refines. While I don't have her full Stats Sunder hit about 7-8k with a nice 1-1.5k bleed dot on her.

With blood Rush on Max Sunder hit 188.4k

Yes all of these numbers are Crits so the "Insta" crit ability does apply before sunder actually hits. (Atleast this is what i believe. Rarely do i see a low number or higher number pop up when i hit a group of mobs unless there was something different with that mob.)

Sidenote: For Testing Purposes, I used Ancestral Rage after my Maxed Blood Rush + Sunder and hit the Test Dummy for 225.6k. And I used a Sunder into Arma (No T.O.P) and hit a 235.1k hit (still all crits). No GoF as i'm not R9. I'm positive with Spark, Sunder + Ancestral rage will hit harder than MY T.O.Ped Arma (My own Buffs lv 11 im at a 21.8k Kitty and 18k Human.).

To answer your question, yes. Sunder is real. It hits hard but that Inc Bleed does make a world of difference now. Im not sure if anyone else notices the bleed inc or not. (i've only tested it out on one person so far. I'll probably update with I hit another later.)

XxWilxX - Heavens Tear · February 2014

SilverMayhem - Archosaur wrote: »

Did the Test your Power Dummy 3 times with new Demon Sunder Primal Version.

Hit 100k-110k with a bleeding of a constant 23k.

Hit it on mobs in Primal (Shadow Assassins). Did about 30-40k (1shots) to mobs and about another 3k Bleed.

Did a test on an Aps BM with about +3 refines. While I don't have her full Stats Sunder hit about 7-8k with a nice 1-1.5k bleed dot on her.

With blood Rush on Max Sunder hit 188.4k

Yes all of these numbers are Crits so the "Insta" crit ability does apply before sunder actually hits. (Atleast this is what i believe. Rarely do i see a low number or higher number pop up when i hit a group of mobs unless there was something different with that mob.)

Sidenote: For Testing Purposes, I used Ancestral Rage after my Maxed Blood Rush + Sunder and hit the Test Dummy for 225.6k. And I used a Sunder into Arma (No T.O.P) and hit a 235.1k hit (still all crits). No GoF as i'm not R9. I'm positive with Spark, Sunder + Ancestral rage will hit harder than MY T.O.Ped Arma (My own Buffs lv 11 im at a 21.8k Kitty and 18k Human.).

To answer your question, yes. Sunder is real. It hits hard but that Inc Bleed does make a world of difference now. Im not sure if anyone else notices the bleed inc or not. (i've only tested it out on one person so far. I'll probably update with I hit another later.)

Well 1.5k on a aps bm with +3 refines means... U cant use it on OP ppl cuz it'll be like 300 damage lol.. but i guess it can be used if multiple low-mid geared players are surrounding you, and u dont want to take the risk with Armageddon

Knownase - Heavens Tear · February 2014

Demon Sunder has its application if you know what to follow up with it afterwards depending on the situation.

As for the bleed boost, its not enough incentive to "must have". Sunder is the last skill I'm getting.

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · February 2014

From my perspective as a sage dph barb, I'm getting sunder because of the extra heal. That's really all.... The bleed damage is - in text - awesome. But is it really.....? In PvE it will probably be nice, in PvP I'm probably better off saving 2 sparks.......

dogm · February 2014

Looked it up in the encyclopedia.

There are some other changes as well it seems:
- sage heal time is shorter
- 0.8 sec faster cast time.
- bleed time reduced from 12 to 9 seconds.

So the bleedticks you'd see would be around 4.8x the normal sage/demon values.

WannaBM - Archosaur · February 2014

The faster cast is what makes me want to have it now b:pleased

Primal Sunder Stat Real?

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